flstf

I believe that the poor and middle class pay a higher percentage of their income to support our government because most of the taxes in the distribution chain are added to the price of goods and services on which they spend almost all their income.

pan6467

I agree wholeheartedly with you, friend.

I'm VERY tired of the argument that the top 1 or 5% {depending on the data} pay so much in taxes.

I am taxed on my income, I am taxed on Social Security, I am taxed by state, city, county and then my employer matches those taxes. The fact that my employer matches those taxes affects what he pays me.

Then I am taxed on everything I buy except food in Ohio. Then I am taxed for owning property.... if I rent I pay the owner's property taxes in my rent.

I am taxed in 100's of hidden taxes in everything I buy.

I made 20,005.95, BEFORE taxes, working full time, 40 hours a week. We'll just say I made 20000, for easier math. Feel free to add 5.95 to everything if you so desire.

Now, income taxes for the US were.... 1001..... you take 20000 and subtract 1001 I made 18999. Then we take off the 322 I paid the state. down to 18677.

Each of those were AFTER I filed my taxes.... I got a refund from both but those went to pay bills that I couldn't pay because the excess that was refunded was taken out every paycheck.

Now, we take out the 1240 I paid for Social Security..... taking my net down to 17437.

Now, we take out city taxes of 450..... down to 16987 {I was supposed to get a refund of 50 back but.... somehow never did.

Medicare rears it's ugly head in with a 290 cut.... taking my pay down to 16697.

So with 16697, I made 321.10 a week.

Out of that I put roughly 20 gallons of gas in my car. Now the sign on the pump says I pay 44 cents in taxes for each gallon...... that's 457.60 in taxes for gas I paid last year roughly. Taking "untaxed" monies to 16239 and change.

I smoked roughly a pack a day..... sales tax alone was roughly 24 cents per pack {.06%}..... that's another 87 + change.... bringing "untaxed" monies to
16152.

According to this site State Tax Rates on Cigarettes, I paid roughly 1.25 in "excise taxes" per pack to the state. That's another 456 and change taking my "untaxed" monies to 15696.

So, just that so far..... is 20000 - 15696 = 4304 paid in taxes.

I paid 21.52% of my wages into taxes. 15696/52 = 301 and change per week is what my true take home was.

Now, we won't look at the sales taxes and hidden taxes on: the tires, the oil changes, the clothes, the times LS and I were lucky enough to go out to eat or see a movie. Or the property taxes, utility taxes, the taxes on the licenses for our cars and so on.

Nor will we include child support {25% of which goes to the state as a "service/collection fee" and I'm up to date there is no "back support" they are trying to get or charge me for.

So you fucking tell me, how someone who makes what I make or LS who makes roughly 10,000 more but pays more can live on that.

We are lucky to not have any kids here. That it is just us. We aren't starving and we aren't doing badly..... so long as gas stays down and we keep our jobs.

Now, if I made say 250000 and I paid 1/2 in taxes.... I could live a lot better and have money to save. But with kids ad living in a better area.... that maybe the equivalent to what LS and I make.

Now, if I make a million... and give 1/2 {and we won't talk about the loopholes I can find so it's not truly 1/2}.... at 500,000 even with kids we're living a great fucking life.

So don't play that fucking game that the top 1-5% pay so much more.... it's because they have fucking more.... and that's fine, but as you make more so shall you pay. I seriously doubt when all is said and done all the loopholes taken, all the deductions and so on made, that 1-5% pays much more of a percentage of their true income than I do.

You want to trade me tax rates..... trade me paychecks, I'll gladly give 1/2 to the government and not look for a loophole, if it means I can not have to worry about money.

OOOO and I love the argument "live within your means"...... we do and we still are living tight. Meanwhile, what exactly does that 1-5% give up to have to live within their means? I can guarantee it's far less than what we have to.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

abaya

Wow, Pan... so you're voting Obama?

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And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Blackthorn

The argument that state and local sales taxes added to goods and services that everyone, wealthy and poor, pay for equally somehow meaning that we should pay higher federal income taxes is sort of like moving to Florida because you enjoy snow skiing. What's the connection?

I feel like the Aflac duck talking to Yogi Bera. I guess it's good to have an opinion even if you are unwilling to let facts get in the way of it. Oh sure... you can believe the data from the IRS and data from the Federal Reserve... only if you want to reduce this to a fact based debate. "Facts are stubborn things" - RWR.

Send more of your money to Washington and watch them waste it regardless of party affiliation. The spend side of the ledger is out of whack which was one of the points of my earlier post. The other point is that lower taxes benefit everyone. The top 50% of wage earners pay 97% of the federal tax burden. At some point that will sink in and make sense but likely not before it shifts to the top 50% paying 115% of the federal tax burden. That's because of the earners who currently pay no taxes the lowest 40% will get incentives (aka: checks for nothing) just because "I don't want to penalize you for your success.....I just want to spread it around a bit" - BHO.

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What are you willing to give up in order to get what you want?