Baraka_Guru

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/28/us...28plot.html?em

I can't say this is entirely unexpected, but it was still shocking to hear it on the news late yesterday afternoon.

The Feds busted two young men on what they considered a "serious" threat to the life of presidential candidate Obama. But what was particularly disturbing are the other details of their plan. They wanted to go to a mostly black school and kill 88 people and behead 14 African Americans, these numbers bearing significance in neo-Nazi culture.

What do you make of this? Is this just an extreme rarity? Do you think racism is boiling to the surface now that it appears Obama has an excellent chance of being president?

As a Canadian, I have trouble wrapping my head around these things. We have racism here as well, to be sure, but something of this magnitude just blows my mind. How bad is it getting? I've read in other threads some of the examples of racist paranoia, fear, and ignorance. (There are videos as well.)

My worst fear is that this will boil over into violence and social injustices.

Do you think this will only get worse? What would it be like if Obama were president? Do you see a regression of race relations in the U.S. in light of this?

Is it too soon for a black president in America?

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—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Poppinjay

If they couldn't get to Clinton, they won't get to Obama. They even tried fying a Cessna straight at the WH.

I live very near DC. In fact, I could take a rifle on a bridge in my town and take a bead on the capitol. Nobody does this. DC appears to be a very open city and access to politicans is easy. But due to Homeland Security measures, violence rarely happens.

There are sniffers everywhere.

This, and the fact that racists are rarely bright people, I doubt Obama will be killed. I think people who are this racist are a stastical blip. If they weren't supremacist, they'd suffer from some other form of insanity.

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I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

Bill O'Rights

Is it too soon for a black president in America? No, I really don't think so. Are we ready for a black president in America? I don't know. I hope so. In any case, don't use a couple of dumbassed skinheads as a template for the social concsience of this country. Yes, this was to be expected. And the Secret Service, I'm sure, has been on top of every "threat". Kudos, to them, for a job well done.

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"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

abaya

Yeah, with all due respect, I was actually laughing by the time I finished reading that article. I mean... they thought they could kill 88 people (unnoticed???) and THEN go after Obama, as the "final target?" Yeah, right. And they planned to do it while driving a car towards him, guns blazing from the windows, and get killed trying it. Oh, my, god. You have got to be kidding.

I guess I'm used to the way professional assassinations are done in Lebanon, given how much ktsp and I usually hear/read about that stuff. You don't mess with THOSE guys, seriously. But this thing, with 18 and 20 year old boys who can't even complete the first step of the plan (to rob a gun shop), is a joke. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law... but if this is the worst that the supremacists can come up with, then I have far less fear of Obama being killed than I previously did.

Btw, this whole 88 and 14 thing is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. H for Hitler is the 8th letter of the alphabet? Some supermacist dude said a 14 word sentence (it wasn't even a profound sentence, btw)? Wow. These people must lead very sad lives, I must say.

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for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
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PonyPotato

Did any of you hear what they decided on wearing to kill Obama?

White tuxedos and top hats.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...,3539126.story

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abaya

Oh yeah, that part also had me in stitches. Is that the GQ version of the KKK hoods?

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

snowy

When the story first broke, I was surprised, to be honest. Of course, half of me is surprised we made it this far without any violence. Then the reporter said that the ATF was all over it. That, to me, said that whatever it was, they caught it in its early stages. Then, the actual plan came out. I was left scratching my head after that.

These guys certainly aren't the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree. I wouldn't worry too much over it. It appears our law enforcement--for once--is ready for this.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Poppinjay

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

Glory's Sun

I think what we are seeing now is the fact that America isn't as PC as we thought. Sure we know that some people are racist still, but I think we're actually starting to see a divide between the groups of people. Around here, and in Paq's neighborhood, there is a huge sentiment growing.. the black vote is out in force and the white vote is going to McCain. I'm almost fearful of what could happen if anyone actually did get to Obama. It would be a sad day, but I wonder what sort of retaliation could happen. That doesn't mean I'm scared of someone because of skin color.. I just know what could happen if the situation presented itself. Do I think it will happen.. no.. not really.

Colin Powell even admitted that he didn't want to run for office because of this risk. Do I think America is ready? no. Do I think America needs it? Absolutely.


Now as far as the OP goes, I was a bit shocked to begin with then as I watched the story unfold I couldn't believe how stupid these kids were. Seriously..100 people? Obama while wearing a tux? c'mon.. Steven Spielberg couldn't even have come up with something like that.

I just wonder if this is going to hurt Obama in the election. Will people be so scared of an assassination that they vote the other way?? I guess we'll have to see. I certainly hope this isn't the case.

mrklixx

I think both VP candidates are working under the assumption that their boss will not live to complete his term.

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Glory's Sun

I don't know about Biden, but it's pretty apparent that Palin is keeping her best interests in mind.. even if it's 2012

Poppinjay

I work in a very white town with strong financial demographics. The polling here shows Obama ahead by about 11%. When the economy sinks, people see past a lot of their prejudicial assumptions.

When Powell was considering a run, it was a very different time. His main advisor, Alma Powell pleaded with him not to run because she was afraid he'd be shot. These are two people that formed their political beliefs around the time that King was assassinated.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

Paq

eh, biden gaffed once and called it the biden/obama ticket

but yea, i read this bc we were all looking for a reason the market decided to tank yesterday at 3:45 and this was the closest reason we could find, although it's probably not the cause. At any rate, i paraded the story around bc it's just absurd..88 killed, 14 more beheaded, THEN drive a car at obama with guns blazing while in white tuxes...ohhh yea, that's a kubrick film, RIP.


Seriously, i think i just got an idea for a film..crazy times we are living. Heck, i don't want to make a film about this, i want to know what they were smoking, then sell it bc that has to be some gooooood shit

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Chris

Glory's Sun

I'm going to go with.. Meth. Seems to fit the bill here.

mrklixx

I was gonna say meth, battery acid, and Jagermeister.

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Amaras

I'm not surprised. I'm sure there are others, plotting as we speak. Baraka, as a fellow Canadian, I'd just like to
mention that even though we'd like to think we are above such forms of racism, don't you find it interesting
that the highest position ever held by a black person is Michelle Jean, and she was appointed?
We've yet to have a women PM (Kim Campbell was not voted in).

I'll bet Jesse Jackson had scores of threats and plots against him during the 80's.

__________________
Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state.
-Noam Chomsky
Love is a verb, not a noun.
-My Mom
The function of genius is to furnish cretins with ideas twenty years later.
-Louis Aragon, "La Porte-plume," Traite du style, 1928

Glory's Sun

grolsch..

it's surprising in the least sadly.. and there will be people out there who will want to kill any candidate that is elected into office. I think the most shocking thing about this story for me is the fact that they wanted to not only assassinate Obama.. but 80+ other black people.. just for being black. Not that I am so naive to think that racism is dead or simply a liberal agenda but it would be nice to move past this already.

They can have fun in jail having an American History X moment.

ow.

Amaras

I would like to think the majority ARE past it.
There is always a lunatic fringe. Always has been, always will be.
The best way I know of to fight racism, as a lily white man, is to confront
other whites when they express it alone with me. You know the type, the
last black person leaves the room, and some racism bullshit gets said. I
call them out on it immediately.

Anyone who wants to kill/harm others due to their religion, orientation, language,
or whatever has an implacable enemy in me. That includes defending
conservatives. Just cause I disagree with most of what they say, doesn't mean
I don't value it.

__________________
Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state.
-Noam Chomsky
Love is a verb, not a noun.
-My Mom
The function of genius is to furnish cretins with ideas twenty years later.
-Louis Aragon, "La Porte-plume," Traite du style, 1928

Glory's Sun

well I'm not going to say racism is any worse than anything else.. but it is a nasty little virus that should be eliminated.

you are correct that there will always be a fringe.. and I doubt very seriously that it will ever be eradicated.

Bill O'Rights

Oh...I dunno.

Consider. My mother grew up in the segregated south of the 40's and 50's. She about flipped out when my father brought her north and a black woman sat next to her at the J.J. Newberry's lunch counter. It was out of the realm of anything that she had known. So, she could easily have raised me to be a little ku-kluxer...but, to her credit, she didn't. Her grandfather, I have no doubt (though it's never been confirmed to me) was a clansman. That would've been the 1920's...the very height of the KKK. Back when it was...respectable to belong. And, that was one racist old man.

Times...and attitudes...change. It just takes time.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

SabrinaFair

Absolutely. Social commentary aside for a moment, if there's one agency of the United States government I have faith to do their job, it's the Secret Service. I've seen them in action a couple of times, and have no doubt in their ability to thwart disaster.

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Be cheerful. Strive to be happy."
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ASU2003

It's the unanticipated threats that I would be worried about. The SS is great and they have done a good job preventing anything from happening since Reagan, but if Obama wins, it won't make their job very easy.

Amaras

They have pro's sitting around constantly coming up with different scenarios and
how to combat them.
Anybody else worried that they are called the SS?

__________________
Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state.
-Noam Chomsky
Love is a verb, not a noun.
-My Mom
The function of genius is to furnish cretins with ideas twenty years later.
-Louis Aragon, "La Porte-plume," Traite du style, 1928

Paq

grolsch, i always thought that was funny...i have an SS number and there is an SS surrounding the president all the time....

ahhhh history, how you repeat yourself..

i have to say, though, that they are about the best performing aspect of our gov't..

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Chris

matthew330

These guys got what they wanted, though probably not in hindsight. They had a fantasy that the entire world knows about and knows who the geniuses behind the grand master plan: 88 people would be murdered with 14 heads chopped off. Obama would be killed at high speed in white suits and top hats.

They very may well have gone until they were stopped, but they wanted to be stopped. The SS is good, but how you catch two children from Tennesee who devised this "assisination attemp" without having been in the act, without their not wanting to be caught....this was attention getting, and I bet they're regretting it.

Galileo

Pal,

It sounds like the two knuckleheads were a long way from actually attempting the assassination. And what's with driving at Obama with guns blazing while hanging out the windows? Maybe they got the idea while watching some action scene from a 1932 movie starring Jimmy Cagney or Edward G. Robinson. Little Ceasar maybe. A good flick but heavily dated when seen today.

I read where a referee's life was threatened after a questionable call during a football game. And I was told to "sniff farts" in an internet chatroom once. It would seem nobody is safe.

Your Chum,
Galileo Smith

Poppinjay

In the DC area, the secret service actually has cars and uniforms that say "UNIFORMED DIVISION OF THE SECRET SERVICE".

Kind of like Mr. Snufflupuguss wandering through the middle of Sesame Street.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet