Charlatan

Did anyone see the debates on TV (both the French and the English)?

I was not able to catch them but am curious to see what your impressions were. Who do you think had the upper hand? How did having the Green Party in the mix effect things?


From what I have read it seemed like one big pile on Stephen Harper. It also appeared, from the few articles I read, that Jack Layton came off looking good.


What are your impressions?

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m0rpheus

I was working during the debates so I didn't get to watch either. From what I read, yeah Harper got pretty much piled on from all sides and was just trying to run damage control.

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CandleInTheDark

It certainly was a pile on Harper, but he remained calm, cool, and collected. I very much disliked the round table format. I think the debates would be better serve Canadians if they were one-on-one: Harper v. Dion; Layton v. May; Duceppe v. Dion etc. Layton performed well, and really took Dion to task a couple times regarding abstaining on votes, and Bob Rae. The only one who appeared to understand the economy was Harper. May made a good argument for a Carbon Tax but poor arguments for everything else.

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Leto

Personally, i found Duceppe to be an engaging speaker, but irrelevant in the English debate. Harper definitely has the edge in experience, but Mae was quite formidable. Layton? What can I say? I've seen him about town so much as a councilor, that I can't make the leap in my mind. He is stridently left, but presented himself well. Dion did better than I expected, but not as well as in his native language.

I expect that Harper will obtain a majority in this election, even though his politics are fast becoming irrelevant and yesterday's news. We can find some comfort in that although the Conservatives are Bush wannabes, they are still closer to the american Democratic ideal than they think.

Baraka_Guru

I didn't see too much of the debate, but I saw enough.

What did it tell me?

The NDP needs to be the official opposition to the upcoming Tory majority.

One poll put Jack Layton in second place behind Harper. Dion was fourth behind May.

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
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Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
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m0rpheus

I've got a funny feeling we're in for another minority from the Conservatives, barring the Liberals completely dying in the next week and a half.

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"it never got weird enough for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Baraka_Guru

I haven't ruled this out.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

CandleInTheDark

I agree that it is likely we will have another, stronger Conservative minority. The Conservatives have controlled the message and started strong, but they have not been able to capitalize on gaffes on the left. The Conservatives are (rightly or wrongly) afraid of spelling out why a smaller government is better, and thus when Dion talks about a role for government in the economy the Conservatives hold back their natural (and right) answer.

Here's hoping for a Liberal self-destruction, Layton will be a far better Opposition leader.

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Where there is doubt there is freedom.

Sticky

I saw parts of the French debate and most of the English one.

I think what confounds me the most is the extent that the Liberals, NDP, Bloc, and Green parties went after the Conservatives.

The reason I say this is that you have to figure that unless something drastic happens the conservatives will win the most seats. The other parties all occupy the left end of the political spectrum and I think that they are more likely to win seats away from each other. Is and NDP supporter that is not sure how to vote going to consider the Conservatives, likely not. They will probably consider the Green party and maybe the liberals if they were not to choose NDP. And the other way around a person who usualy votes Conservative but may not be happy with Harper, that person will be selecting from the other parties.

My point is that I think it would have benefited them more if they could demonstrate the differences between themselves. We know that they are different from the Conservatives - that is obvious. They should have spent more time on what makes them different from each other.

That being said, Jack Layton did that a few times with the Liberals but not nearly enough.
Way to much time was spent focusing on Stepehn Harper. Most questions by the other parties were directed at him. I wonder, if someone, went through it minute by minute, if they would find that a majority of the time was spent either directing comments at Stephen Harper or Harper responding rather than the other parties talking about themselves or questioning/commenting on other (non-Conservative) parties.

It seems to me like they wasted an opportunity to differentiate themselves.

Here are a few other things that I noticed:

- Stephen harper did a pretty good Job at defending/responding to comments and questions by the other party leaders. He did not have any major screw-ups. He did not lose his temper. He and his party were likely not hurt at all by this debate.They maybe even benefitted a bit as some people sitting on the fence between the Liberals and the Conservatives maybe learnt a bit more about him and what his government is doing and wants to do as so much time was focused on them.

- Stephan Dion: I thought that he did an OK job of showing that he is someone. He got exposure that he never had (or never took advantage of before). He probably made Liberals (or those planning to vote Libeal) feel comfortable that they have someone competent (I am not infering incompetence on previous leaders) leading the party who understands the issues. I don't think, however, that he did well enough to increae support for his party. I think that he did have language issues in English. I don't think that it is that he is unable to communicate in English I just think that it does not come out quickly or easily. I also think that it hurt him more becuase Gilles Ducepps English, while he does have pronunciation problems, seemed to flow much more easily.

- Jack Layton: I think also that he did a good job of showing his supporters that they should be confident in him. I do believe that he probably succeeded most in winning new votes. I am not a fan. I don't like the way he speaks. I don't like when he jumps to petty attacks. And I am not an NDP supporter. All that being said I think that he did show people that he could be the Opposition leader.

- Elizabeth May: I think that she did a good job at upgrading her profile and the profile of her party. She had a handle on issues other than the environment and was able to discuss them as well as anyone else. I think this may win their party somenew votes. We can now see that they are not only about the environment. It defintely benefited the Green Party to be at this debate. Will they win a seat- even hers? I don't know.

- Gilles Duceppe: While the French Debate was important to the Bloc in that they are loosing support in Quebec in some areas to the Conservatives I do think that he could have made better use of the English debate. In both debates he should ahve spent more time on showing himself and the Bloc as another option to the NDP, Green, and Liberal parties. Yes we understand that the concept of the party is Quebec first but use that to an advantage in Quebec. Downplay sovereignty but play up the fact that you look out for Quebecers first. Show them what makes you better than the NDP, Green, and Liberals.

A few more things that I noticed:
- Elizabeth May kept on throwing out silly comments when the Moderator (e.g. like on a break to go to commercail) was talking. One eaxmple was at the end when the moderator said that he was sure that this was more interesting than the Palin Biden debate May blurted out something about it having to be more interesting becuase this is Canada and it is our election. Ya, she is right but it just sounded silly to be blurted out. There were a few more like that.
- Gilles Duceppes people should really coach him on some of the pronunciations of the more common words of the day like "the environment". He would really do much better in English if he could clear up some of those mis-pronunciations. He does sound better that Stephan Dion in English.
- Stephan Dion was looking into the camera alot of the time making it look like he was talking to the people at home. I was thinking that it worked nicely for him. Two minutes later Layton is doing it and it is driving me crazy. Maybe that is my bias.
- everytime Elizabeth May spoke I kept on thinking of Timothy Spall

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percy

I watched both debates and it was pretty much the same rhetoric you have been hearing for a few weeks now.

I thought at times it was childish of them all the way they were posturing for the "pick me" shot when they felt they had something important to say.

I dunno. My opinion is why even have debates since the majority of people are voting on aesthetics - much like who they personally find more appealing than on actual policy.

As least this campaign hasn't hit the low it hit last time when all people could speak of was who was,..scarier. Oooh,...BOO