Cynosure

Hmm. I don't normally pay much attention to what celebrities have to say about Presidential candidates during the election campaigns, and Matt Damon isn't a celebrity that I've cared much about. But he is soberly, bluntly making some observations and asking some questions that few other celebrities dare to make/ask. (No, I don't count the observations made and the questions asked on the Daily Show or on the Colbert Report, because the pointedness of those are blunted by bufoonery.)

EDIT: Hmm. The BBcode doesn't seem to be working, eventhough I followed the instructions given by Halx.

Cynthetiq

not on our end. it's on youtube's end.

as far as him saying something... wait.. he understands or has seen the actuary tables? really? 1 out of 3 chance? really?

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Cynosure

Dude, I don't even need to see the actuary tables and understand them, to realize that McCain is as old as fuck, and that there's a good chance (whatever the actual odds might be) he won't survive his first term as President.

But even if it's only, say, a 1 in 20 chance: the consequences of that possibility becoming a reality, and thus our country – the world, even! – ending up with a President Palin, makes even those low odds, alarming.

I, too, want to know if Palin zealously believes that dinosaurs existed a mere 4,000 years ago.

Cynthetiq

even if it's a 1 in 20 chance, or a 1 in a 100, there are plenty of people who are doing jobs who are in high powered positions. Sumner Redstone comes to mind since he's 85 and still is involved int he day to day operations of one of the most prominent media companies on the planet.

While it's always a possibility, I'm not sold on the idea of the fear aspect of this. To me that's just stupidity in a glass.

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RetroGunslinger

This is just one more reason that Matt Damon is the man. He just asked the same question I ask of every political candidate.

It's good to know that an actor can actually not suck when giving political views, even if it is something that's on everybody's mind.

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ASU2003

1 in 3? Is that Jason Bourne talking about his odds of being successful against the secret service?

McCain isn't that old. Hell, I would have a hard time with the non-stop campaigning and I'm not even 30. He will have the best medical care and he's healthier than a lot of people.

Cynosure

So, you're comparing the job of overseeing one of the world's most prominent media companies, to the job of being in control of the world's most powerful military?

Besides, my concern is not so much for the possibility of a President McCain, as it is for a President Palin.

Here's another thing I'd like to know about Palin: Does she sincerely, ardently believe in the Rapture? Because if she does, that's even worse than her believing dinosaurs existed a mere 4,000 years ago. Why? Because, the world doesn't want a U.S. President, in charge of the world's most powerful military, who believes God is going to miraculously teleport her and her fellow fundamentalist Christians away from the earth, and thus sparing them of the Battle of Armageddon and its aftermath.

Willravel

I'll admit to being impressed that he is familiar with the actuarial table and understands it's significance to the election. McCain is 3 years away from the average lifespan of an American male, he does have some health problems, and he's applying for the most stressful job in the world. It matters.

I think it's clear which one wrote Good Will Hunting.

pan6467

First of all it's total bullshit that McCain is the oldest man to ever run for president.... Ronald Reagan was born 4 days after my now 97 year old grandmother.... his b-day was 2/6/11 my grandmother's b-day is 2/2/11. That made him 73, in 1984 when he ran for his second term, and almost 74 when he was sworn in for that term. A year older than McCain.

Both my grandfather's, were extreme alcoholics and one lived to be 86 after suffering a perforated ulcer Easter weekend 1986 at the age of 74. They said he was dead then. He pulled out, lived 14 more years smoking Camel non filters and never drank again. The other lived to be 76 and had had a stroke at age 70. Neither had great insurance, especially compared to what a president has.

I believe McCain could be very sharp and healthy for quite some time, specially with the best medical care in the world. The last president to die in office was JFK. The last president to die of natural causes was FDR in his 4th term in 1945 and everyone knew he was going to die, that is why they chose Harry S Truman as his VP.

Today, people age differently, we are ale to live longer, be active and productive well into our 60's and 70's. My grandmother and her friends were active well into their 80's.

I take great umbrage and find it despicable this day and age for ANYONE to condemn a person based on age. To me, that is the same as passing judgment against someone because of their race, their religion, their sex, their sexual preference and so on. It is fucking disgusting and another reason for me to be truly disgusted and apathetic towards the Dem. Party I once loved.

The Dem Party I supported and loved fought against ALL prejudice and discrimination.....
Today, they use ageism the same way some use racism, sexism, homophobia and so on.

You don't like McCain's politics and platform, fine...... but don't you dare fucking use his age against him. That would be like someone using Obama's race against him, Hillary or Palin's sex against them, Lieberman's religion against him, Barney Frank's sexual orientation against him.

It's pathetic.

BTW.... as my father used to tell me and it is apparent when studying all he recent presidents... the president is a figurehead, the true power lies in whom he places in his cabinet and how well his advisers advise him. It is still the president's decision, but 99% of the time it is on the advice of his advisers and thorough research as to how he may react. I personally believe McCain will put in his cabinet far more qualified and better people than Obama.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Cynthetiq

No, I said it comes to mind. Again, I don't buy into hype and I don't buy into the fear mongering, from whomever is doing it, left, right, democrat, republican, green, libertarian.

Again, I'm more worried about what Mr. McCain/Obama will do as opposed to what the VP will do. While it is a possibility the focus of the prize is really who sits there first and foremost

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pan6467

I agree, focus on the person actually running for the office.

I don't hear as many people say "Obama will have a bullseye on him from some nutcase because of his race", which is just as much if not more a possibility than McCain dying in office.

VOTE FOR WHOM YOU BELIEVE WILL DO THE BEST JOB AND HAVE THE MOST QUALIFIED AND BEST PEOPLE IN THEIR FIELDS SURROUNDING THEM.... DON'T VOTE AGAINST SOMEONE SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THEIR AGE, RACE, SEX, SEX ORIENTATION, RELIGION AND SO ON.

If we all do the above, then I truly believe the best candidate in this year's field will win. If we vote due to our prejudices and biased fears based on the individual and not his policies and platforms.... we will end up with the worst candidate.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Cynosure

Whoa. I'm not condemning or even discriminating against McCain because of his old age. I'm criticizing him because of who he chose as his running mate, and why he chose that particular person. And I'm considering the possibility and its consquences – unlikely though that possibility might be, weighed against how dire those consequences probably will be – of that running mate becoming the President of the United States.

Cynthetiq

actually you are because you've stated that he's more than likely going to die in office, and that she'll be the VP.

did you forget you typed up that highlighted part?

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Willravel

I think what you're refering to is the fact that if McCain won he'd be the oldest inaugurated president of the US. Technically, that's true.
He went to France?

Look, the current (2008) average life span of an American male is about 3 years off for McCain. Couple that with the fact that he'll be in the most stressful job in the world and he has a long history of medical problems including cancer... Let's please not pretend that he's the picture of health and vitality, that would be very dishonest.
You find anything despicable that could possibly benefit Obama.

Obama's race doesn't make him a lot more likely to cause him to be sick or die.

Cynosure

Well, we really don't know yet how good of a job McCain would do as President, should he be elected. But we're already getting a pretty good idea of what kind of people he would place in the field surrounding him, and perhaps even an idea of the sort of thought process he'd have choosing those people. Because, surely Palin isn't among the most qualified and best people for the job of Vice President. And so, we're left wondering why McCain even chose her, in the first place.

pan6467

I can understand that and I wasn't directing it at you. I hear too many say "he's old and will die in office, do we want Palin?" My own mother said that yesterday to me.

I have a news flash for you, ANY president can die in office. Bush I could have died and we'd have had Quayle.... now that was a person to fear. Clinton could have died or been impeached and we'd have had Tipper as first lady and with that power God only knows what she would have done with PMRC and censorship. Look at Bush II with Cheney, that man scares any sane person in the US and unfortunately, he did run the country.... LOL bad example.... Obama has Biden, who I like a lot but the more I read into him and his sons the more I realize how corrupt he may be.

But I don't vote for the VP, never have or I would never have voted for Clinton. As it was in 2000, I voted for Nader because of a dislike for Gore.
-----Added 11/9/2008 at 01 : 40 : 42-----
Yes, I do. I have nothing truly against anyone voting for Obama because they believe him to be he best candidate. I have issues with those voting for him solely because of his race or voting against him because of his race. Same as if Hilary ran and people voted for or against her because of her sex or Lieberman because of his religion and so on.

If you truly believe that Obama is the best candidate vote for him. I don't. I am not a great fan of McCain's but to me he is the better choice.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Cynosure

Saying "there's a good chance" is not the same as saying "the chance is more than likely". I repeat: I'm taking both the probability and the consequences into consideration.

If I say "there's a good chance you'll die of cancer if you smoke cigarettes," I don't mean it's more than likely you will die of cancer from smoking cigarettes; I mean there's a significant (even if small) chance you will die from it; and, considering the consquences - i.e. death - it makes smoking cigarettes not worth that chance.

ObieX

My main concern with McCain dying isn't really with his age as it is with him having to have hunks of cancer chopped off his body every other week. The possibility of a candidate dying before his/her term is up and being replaced by a whack job is a real and legitimate concern.

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pan6467

Choosing a VP and your cabinet are 2 totally different animals. One chooses the running mate they believe will help them win votes. I firmly believe had McCain chosen anyone else, he would not have received the bump nor stood even a chance to win. JFK chose Johnson for this reason, neither could stand the other and it was well known, but Johnson on the ticket guaranteed Souhern votes and states needed to win the election.

Obama choosing Biden..... that is a puzzler, I have my theories on that but they are not for this thread.

McCain choosing Palin, helps him get the Conservative, Religious Right that may have sat out if he had chosen say Lieberman. It also helps get some women's votes.

But when the time comes, I see McCain pulling into his cabinet better qualified people than Obama. I truly believe McCain will surround himself not with cronies like Bush but be more independent with his choices like Clinton was.

McCain may make Lieberman Secretary of the Treasury or something. He may jump the aisle and find someone like a Mario Cuomo for secretary of the Interior or whatever. Those would e nice choices and I do think Lieberman will most definitely be in his cabinet somewhere... Cuomo not so much but one can dream.
-----Added 11/9/2008 at 01 : 59 : 06-----
But if I believed that, trust me I would NEVER have voted Clinton/Gore. I vote for the head of the ticket.

Johnson did not like many of JFK's policies or platforms, but because he died in office and the nation started loving the man, Johnson pushed through a lot of those policies he didn't agree with.

I think Palin would do her best if something happened to McCain to keep his platform alive. She would want the 2012 election and she is not going to go out and destroy the nation.... especially with a Democratic Congress.

Biden on the other hand.... again I will save that for another thread. All I have to say here is Biden, IMHO has too much of an ego and would decide to run things his way.... which got him how many votes in the primaries?

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

dc_dux

Candidates often reward their top campaign advisers with cabinet appointments.

The two most likely McCain cabinet members mentioned are former Sen. Phil Gramm, who is his chief economic adviser, as Sec of Treasury...which would mean more supply side economics focused on tax breaks for top taxpayers and corporations.

And Randy Scheunamann, who is his top national security adviser, as his WH National Security Adviser....

Randy Scheunemann was the President of the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, which was created by the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), of which he is a board member. He was Trent Lott's National Security Aide and was an advisor to U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on Iraq. He is 2008 U.S. presidential candidate John McCain's foreign-policy aide.

....more of the same neo-con foreign policy.

Cuomo in a McCan cabinet? Poor Mario would have nightmares tonight if he heard that suggestion!

Lieberman maybe, but I doubt you would see any other current senators in his cabinet....its hard to emphasize enough how many of his colleagues dislike the man personally, while campaiging for him publicly.

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pan6467

One can dream. Just like I'd like to see Sherrod Brown get a cabinet spot, not that he's all that qualified or would be the best man for the job.... but again one can dream.

In all honesty, I'd have loved to see Cuomo run in 2000, 2004 or this year. I have no doubt he would have won in 2000 or 2004 by landslide. This year unfortunately, as with McCain, his age would have become an issue.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

dc_dux

On this we agree!

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

jorgelito

John F Kennedy died in office too. At the ripe old age of what, 45? 46?

Seriously, the age thing is getting old.

On to the issues!

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to the one that endures to the end."

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dc_dux

IMO, potential cabinet members is an issue.

I would like to see both candidates lay out a list of potential names for the top positions.....State, Defense, Treasury, Attorney General, National Security Adviser.

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

pan6467

That would be very interesting to see. I think it could definitely sway votes on both sides also. Maybe, someday along with naming their VP candidates will be asked to name whom their choices for cabinet offices would be. At least the big 5: State, Defense, Treasury, Attorney General and Interior.

That way we have some idea who we are getting in power.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

jorgelito

Actually, I would be very interested in this too. Especially since McCain has expressed an interest in appointing Democrats and independents to his administration (qualified of course).

Any thoughts? Theories? DC, you have an inside track inside the Beltway. Any illuminations? What are the chances of a bipartisan or multipartisan cabinet for either candidate?

Any chance Colin Powell gets picked up by either side for SECDEF or SECSTATE? I can't really think of anyone else at the moment for any of the positions. Maybe Eric Shinseki for SECDEF or something. It would be poetic justice to have him back.

How about the Supreme Court for that matter? Will Ginsberg resign soon? Will there be any slots open for the next POTUS to appoint?

__________________
"The race is not always to the swift, nor battle to the strong, but
to the one that endures to the end."

"Demand more from yourself, more than anyone else could ever ask!"

- My recruiter

Tully Mars

Well Stevens is 88, Ginsburg 75 and Scalia is 72. I think there a good chance in the next four years at least one appointment will be made.

McCain is old. Is it an issue? I wouldn't base my vote on his age. Hell he probably get better health care then 99% of the rest of the world. People made a big issue out of him not releasing his medical records. So? He seems to be trucking right along on the campaign trail. His moms in her 90's. People are living longer.

I wouldn't let his age influence my vote. I actually might have voted for McCain 4 years ago. He's changed on many of the issues he stood for back then. Now he's either just saying what he thinks the base of his party wants or he's a Bush mini me. Either way I'm not voting for the guy.

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Cynthetiq

I don't disagree that the risk is greater than zero. I'm all about that in understanding choices and taking risks.

My point still stands, you're looking at this from an ageism point of view. It doesn't matter how you wrap it or lawyer it out, it is ageist.

Now you can rail against it even more to defend the position that you say you don't have, or just like your words are already doing so, admit that it is what it is, and move forward from it.

To point to pan's post, it's definitely a possibility that ANY sitting president can die in office for any reasons, but one generally votes the top of the ticket.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Cynosure

Whatever.

Or I can start making absolute statements about you personally and your stance, as you are with me. But I choose neither one of those options. Instead, I'll simply no longer discuss the matter (with you, at least).

ASU2003

Palin leaves open option of war with Russia - Yahoo! News

This sounds crazy. I don't want to wage war against Russia. It can have Georgia if it wants, does she (or McCain/Obama) understand what the Russians have in terms of a military? True, we have enough defenses I'm not worried about a Russian invasion yet, ICBMs maybe, but not a conventional war on US soil. But, I doubt the US would win if we fought Russia on Russian soil.

OK, this sound a little better. Go with this answer.

loquitur

read the frickin' interview. He posited as a premise for the qeustion that Georgia or Ukraine was admitted to NATO and THEN Russia invaded. As a NATO member we'd have some treaty obligations. Or do you think she should repudiate treaty obligations on national TV?

Sakes alive, read original docs, not the spin from the networks. They're trying to shock you - haven't you figured that out yet? Same old networks they have always been - you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig, you know.

ASU2003

I know, but she will have a problem in the debates if she answers like that. And there is no mention of diplomacy or working with our allies to put pressure on Russia. Economic sanctions is a pretty vague answer that probably wouldn't do very much to change their minds.

And while no one may be able to admit that we should back out of our obligations, I would hope they would really think about what will happen in the long term if we have to defend Georgia or another former soviet state against Russia. Is it really worth that much human life lost in war?

smooth

Why would you use Reagan as an example?
During his second term, Reagan was the first president ever to invoke the acting president clause of the 25th amendment during his cancer surgery. Later, his staff contemplated invoking the 25th amendment again because they thought he was becoming inept and inattentive. They thought he was losing his mind...now of course we know that he was suffering from the onset of Alzheimers.

If you want to compare McCain's age to Reagan's age during his 2nd term, I guess it's your choice but history undermines any argument that it's a good idea to put 70+ presidents in office.

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loquitur

smooth, the US isn't the first country to have people in their 70s or even 80s in office, run for office. The point isn't generalizable from the small data set you're considering. I agree that Reagan was showing signs of Alzheimer's setting in toward the end of his second term, but surely you know that aging is highly idiosyncratic. McCain's mother is 96 y.o. and still very vigorous. In fact, (under the heading of "hilarious stuff") I saw a posting somewhere (I forget where) with the title "who is older?" Underneath were two pictures - McCain's 96-y.o.-mother and Keith Richards. And McCain's mom looked much better.
-----Added 12/9/2008 at 11 : 19 : 49-----
Oh, and ASU, if you read through the rest of her comments, she actually was careful not to commit to a military approach, only that it shouldn't be off the table. I'll grant you that she isn't fluid yet on foreign policy, and that she was to a large extent spitting back stuff she had memorized.

Baraka_Guru

This isn't the first time this has come up. McCain's father and grandfather died at 71 and 61 respectively. Does that factor in? Maybe the men in his family jump 10 years each generation and McCain has until 81.... I dunno.

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
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loquitur

Baraka, I don't think it tells you anything necessarily about McCain (though it's suggestive), but it does remind you that just because someone got Alzheimer's at 68 doesn't mean everyone gets it at 68. These are individual things, and some people are fitter than others. I'm not a biologist or a doctor, and I'd certainly agree that older people have more medical issues than younger people, but it does not follow from that every person over 70 is at death's door. David ben-Gurion, for example, was active in politics until he was 82. Nelson Mandela was 77 when he was elected president of South Africa (and from what I understand he is still in good shape). The examples go on and on.

Baraka_Guru

Yeah, I agree. Health issues didn't get Fidel Castro until he hit 82. And Robert Mugabe is 84.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

loquitur

I hate using Robert Mugabe as an example of anything other than a power-hungry terroristic racist psychopath.

But yeah, I understand what you're saying.

noodle

So, back to the OP, before everyone started on a tirade about age... Matt Damon is a trip.
He's not one I'd have suspected would open his mouth and be definitive about things...
I agree that it's nice to see celebrities questioning things like those of us in "real life" without screaming at each other.

DOES Palin believe that dinosaurs existed?

__________________

dc_dux

In a debate when running for governor, she said creationism should be taught alongside evolution...then later backtracked a bit:
She was a member of the Wasilla Assembly of God church for 20some years. The Assemblies of God's official position is that "even though the Bible is not primarily a book of science, it is as trustworthy in the area of science as when it speaks to any other subject."

Without any specific personal endorsements of teaching creationism (other than the one above, including the limited "retraction)...to hold her accountable for the positions of the church she attends would be the same as holding Obama accountable for the the positions of his church.

But yes, personally, I think she believes that dinosaurs lived along side Adam and Eve and she would feel right at home at the Creation Museum where she could "travel back 6,000 years to the dawn of creation" through Disney-like movies!

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire