roachboy

maybe if that's a problem you should be advocating a wholesale rethink of priorities in terms of where tax money gets spent: i don't understand why you'd be all "fiscally responsible" about treatments for rape victims and investigations into the circumstances that surround it, etc,. and silent about the war in iraq, the war in afghanistan, the continued obscene levels of spending on military hardware, on useless weapons systems, the Enormous Sucking Sound made around tax dollars to bail out the financial sector as they confront the consequences of their own irresponsibility...

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

kutulu

It's called the cost of doing fucking business. It doesn't matter that there is no FREE EVIDENCE Warehouse or that the computers don't come free from Dell. If you are going to run a professional police department you have a certain standard of practice that you need to live up to. Fiscal responsibility has nothing to do with it. Stuff like this has to get done. Period.

If these simple things are too cumbersome for a small town to pay for then they can dissolve the City PD and contract out to the County Sheriff to do the police work. Here in the Phoenix metropolitan area both Sun City and the Town of Guadalupe contract out to the Maricopa County Sheriff Department.

Lubeboy

I agree it's pretty asinine to charge for a rape kit while the governments gives other types of medical assistance for free. For example for anyone who has ever been exposed to TB, you can get pills for from your local health department for free. So why not rape kits?

Rekna

Who is going to pay for the fire department to come to your house when it is burning down? Who is going to pay for those roads you drive on? Who is going to pay for those police that guard the streets. Who is going to pay for your soldiers in Iraq? This is why we have taxes to promote the common good. Lets see 20K a year for a city with a population of 7,000 that is about $3 per person per year.

Willravel

TB pills don't pose a risk to a potentially viable fetus. Rape kits usually include the morning after pill. Considering her religious adherence to her pro-life position, even being against abortion in the case of rape or incest, it's not unreasonable to think that this move may have been motivated by her want to impose her morality on her constituents. I mean I could be wrong, but it seems like 2 + 2 = 4 in this case.

Jozrael

Thank you will for finally explaining this to me.

The_Dunedan

She seems somewhat disinclined to enforce said morality, actually. She refused to sign Alaska's anti-gay-marriage law when it hit her desk due to its' unconstitutionality. Everyone's freaking out about how she's supposedly some kind of religious fascist, but I've seen no evidence of this and her veto of the gay-marriage bill seems to put the lie to the stereotype. Was this an asinine move? If move it was, sure. However, this seems to be a policy which significantly predates her mayoral tenure, not one which she initiated. So this then moves from a "sin of action" to a "sin of inaction" at most, and considering that the Chief Of Police supported the policy it may have been out of Palin's hands. Does anyone have a source on where such a policy decision would have had to come from according to AK law? Because in some jurisdictions the Top Cop has the last word on such things while in others such a decision might be made by the Mayor, any one of a number of Commissioners or other functionaries, or even by an anonymous pencil-pusher (Hey, that's how ATF does things) with no accountability at all.

Cynthetiq

Like I said, I'm all for it, just want to know where it comes from and who really is saddling the bill.... see you guys all are willing to decry someone for their choices of fiscal prudence... maybe when you get to steward budgets of millions of dollars and have to start picking and choosing.

You guys just want people to sit here saying, "Oh yeah... what a bitch she wants to charge for rapekits!! how much more crazy is she!?!?!?!?!"

I'm not interested in that emotional decry. I'm going to say simple, who's going to pay for it? Great, increase everything by $.25. Wonderful! keep adding things to that bottom line and soon, you've inadvertantly increased taxes by a fucking lot. NYC real estate taxes just went up 25% in one year. Services are cut by a percentage because the budget won't balance.

But you're going to say, "ooooh but raaaapeee!!!" No, I say FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY.

Sorry, fuck that, I'll gladly pay for social programs, and the "who's going to pay for the fire department" Duh, didn't you know? some counties actually charge you for services since SOME fire departments are not part of the city budgets. FDNY EMT comes to your house here in NYC, guess what that ride costs $400+ and you get a bill sent to your house.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

roachboy

well, if you haven't read it before, you should read thoreau's "on civil disobedience"--he made a similar argument--he opposed the mexican war, he paid taxes, such as they were in the 1840s, and figured that he didnt want to pay for something he opposed, so he refused to pay taxes. the counter argument was that tax money is pooled, so he couldnt know where his particular money went--no-one knows what they pay for in particular--so there was no reason for him to think that by not paying taxes that he was therefore not paying for the mexican war. of course, he had an aunt who bailed him out of jail after a few days and he got a good essay out of it, which is more than most of us get from most such things. and it is a good thing to read for the argument and for the way he says it, which is quite pissy, and he was good at pissy. he was good at walking through landscapes too, but thats another story.

i don't see the fiscal responsibility argument you're making at all, cyn. i really don't. i don't see how it follows---i don't see any arguments against health care in general not being a right, though--one of the things that capitalism should provide the people in exchange for being able to derive profit from interactions with them, and as something consistent with the claims capitalists make about the system--that it helps distance people from necessity, that it can make a better more humane way of life possible. that seems a desirable political goal, making people's lives better. it's one i support. i do not support the idea that "fiscal responsibility" exists in a vacuum, that it is independent of other considerations. i think it is fiscally irresponsible for a civilized country NOT to pay for basic health care. it's far MORE irresponsible to pay for shit like nuclear weapon systems. you want to free up money for this sort of thing? be more a pacifist and advocate dismantling the national security state--that be responsible in a thousand ways, and way way down there on the list would be "fiscal responsibility"....but it'd be there.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Cynthetiq

rb, my sole point of this diatribe is strictly hinged on the idea that someone posts, "But she want to charge for rapekits.. .raaaaape!!! someone was raaaaped! and she wants the victims to pay..."

I'm sorry that's shortsighted in my book to put an emotional charge towards something. I framed it as a troll because it's along the same lines, trying to get a response from someone. My response wasn't the exepected one, which was either, "OMFG! you're right what a cunt!" or "Yes, because everyone should have some morality shoved at them because abortion kills!!!!" No, again, my tack is much more practical than that.

I'm the same with the national security, not all that happy to pay for someone to say I can't have more than 3oz of liquid on my person in the airplane, that's just as fiscally stupid to me especially since we have pourous borders, but like you said, those are different stories.

And as an aside, or BoD we killed 1 shift of our day security in our $20M budget so that we can save $80,000. Even after an assualt (covered in the news) in our buildings. So when you want to talk about having to pick and choose which line items you have to get rid of, I'm ready with my pen to start crossing things off, some hard choices have to be made at some point in time.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Paq

why not cut out all security. save yourself 240K instead.

__________________
Live.

Chris

Cynthetiq

I'd love to, and it would save close to $1M, the $240k you're thinking of is only 1 shift 1 station, there are many to cover all 4 buildings, but that's not a reality in our neighborhood.

1678 apartments over 4 buildings, there needs to be some security. This was removal of a satellite in the middle of 2 parks. It didn't make sense to build it, and still doesn't make sense to staff it.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Rekna

Cynthetiq for president! No fire departments, no police departments, no military, no government what soever because we aren't going to pay for it! To bad Cynthetiq will be working for free in our little anarchist world.

Cynthetiq

I already work for free. As a member of the board of directors for a corporation it is illegal for me to be compensated for my time.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

kutulu

I haven't once injected language into this thread to emotionally charge the topic because the subject is rape kits. I have been consistent that a rape kit is about collecting evidence only. On the other hand, rather than give an honest debate you chose to center your argument around strawmen and catchphrases. After that you have the nerve to accuse ME of being the troll? That's rich.

I have also been consistent in my argument that a rape is like any other violent crime and you need to collect evidence if a police force is going to have any shred of a chance at proving a case. THE ONLY WAY TO COLLECT PHYSICAL EVIDENCE AFTER A SUSPECTED RAPE IS TO DO AN EXAM!!!

Guess what? Putting out fires are ambulence services are not one and the same! That's another falacious argument you made in this thread but at least you were witty and condescending about it!

Guess what again? Private security services and Police services that are required by law are two different items! Another example you gave that has nothing to do with the topic.

Maybe you just don't understand what fiscal responsibility is about. Police departments need cars in order to respond promptly. They don't get to cry fiscal responibility and choose to not have cars. They can, however, hold back on upgrading or buying cheaper models. The forensics labs need lab supplies and computers to do their jobs. They don't get to cut computers from the budget. They can, however buy cheaper computers or hold back on upgrades.

Cynthetiq

kutulu, my emotionally charged statement was posited towards paq who made the inital claim. That post was trollish IMO, it wasn't a serious troll, but it is in line with the same kind of thoughts.

again my statements are about financial duty, I'm just referencing the ability to pick and choose service, which is FIDUCIARY duty, which is what I am talking about.

you are welcome to get all up in arms about my opinion, but it's simply all about fiscal responsibility.

I'm not thinking about the collecting of or maintaing any chain of command for evidence control. I'm speaking strictly about the dollars and cents.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

jorgelito

Wow, interesting take. I didn't even think about that.
-----Added 23/9/2008 at 01 : 37 : 31-----
Thanks for the info. Good to get a different perspective.

__________________
"The race is not always to the swift, nor battle to the strong, but
to the one that endures to the end."

"Demand more from yourself, more than anyone else could ever ask!"

- My recruiter

Nisses

I didn't know there was such a thing as a professional cop? Or that police departments were doing business?

Is it so hard to understand Cynthetiq's point Kutulu and Rekna?

Some services are necessary, some are important. A whole lot are not.

In the end what you 2 want is a good slab of taxes and contributions that you pay the state to take care of you.
Cynthetiq feels quite the opposite. Things have costs. They need to be taken care of. It's a personal and independant view.

That doesn't mean that people could not rally to help said rape-victim, even financially.
It just means that compassion/empathy shouldn't be enforced by the powers that be.

__________________
Moderation should be moderately moderated.

Tully Mars

Being a professional can mean you're simply paid for your work. So, yes there is such a thing as professional cop.

And running almost any office or department is a business. Even a volunteer fire department is a business, or at least there's business aspects of running it. Just because the tax payers provide the income doesn't mean it's not a business. Budgets have to be worked out, staffing levels have to be administered.

__________________
I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

Nisses

there are business aspects, I definitly agree.

But a business is meant to provide goods or a service and get a profit out of it.

I don't mean to play down the level of work and effort that goes into running your department or office efficiently, far from it.

I'm also not saying that a fire or police department is not important. To me those things can and should be paid for by groups of people (be it a city, a county or what have you)
Because they are meant for groups of people. Crime/Riots/fire can lay waste to streets, valleys, ...

Maintenance and building of roads, and the like: the very same thing.


Individual cases: not so much. There can and should be other organisations to take care of this, that you personally choose to be part of, or not.

__________________
Moderation should be moderately moderated.

roachboy

this style of "responsible" thinking seems very mid-19th century.
not only do you not understand the modern period, but it's still right in front of you and you treat things like infrastructure services as abstractions. they have histories. your "solutions" are among the reasons these services are as they are in the first place. they don't work.

why is it that "fiscally responsible" and ignorant of history go together so often?

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Rekna

So are you claiming stopping rapists is not important to society? I would disagree.

Cynthetiq

That is correct, there are many non-government organizations that fill in where government doesn't provide the service. There's nothing requiring job placement, job training, parental counselling, but there are many NGOs out there that do provide this kind of service. Some of it is subsidized by the government and other contributions come from local business donations.

I prefer that NGOs take care of the domestic issues, since they can be small, nimble, grass roots and closer to the "battle" so to speak.

but no, this isn't about that apparently it's about how appalling it is the insensitivity we have towards someone who is raped. Apparently we should all stop what we're doing because someone says "raaaaape" and foot the bill for everything.

Tully, thank you. That's a great point, it's important to understand that budgets are budgets, no matter what the "business" is, from fire departments to schools, there are constraints and choices that need to be made.

The idea that every police station needs certain computers or has to have access to them, doesn't come lightly. Police stations do without alot of times. Sometimes it's given monies from the federal level ala the gas masks that Hilary Clinto sought for NYPD after 9/11 because the local budget just will not allow for it.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

jewels

Maybe some of us are not quite getting what you're saying then, and vice versa?

Putting the financial aspect aside for a moment, if someone you loved was murdered in your home, is it your responsibility to clean it up and pay for the cleaning service? And if someone you know/love is raped, should you have to purchase a rape kit and have a cashiers check ready so someone will respond to your call for help?

This is why you and I pay property taxes. If you'll notice, taxes are in line with the area where you reside and changes annually based on budgets determined by crime statistics. The rape victim is entitled to those services, yes. If it's determined that the charges are false, then the nonvictim should be required to pay as part of the lawsuit against her.

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

Cynthetiq

Yes, in some counties you are to pay for biohazard cleanup. Not saying that the rapee has to have a check in hand, what I'm saying is that it costs something and the money doesn't magically come out of thin air. People are billed for services rendered all the time. This is from the rapekit to the professionals who do the exams and evidence gathering. There is a cost for their time, billable hours that are charged against something, somewhere.

Again, saying that "you've got to have check in hand" is trying to make this more emotionally charged than it is. People get services, and get a bill in the mail payable sometime in the future. Sometimes, hospitals eat costs, that's what they do when you contact the billing department and say,"It's coming out of my pocket, not the insurance company's"

Property taxes aren't just about crime statistics. There are goods and services the city provides, from police department to social programs, trash pickup to gardening and park beautification. Crime is only a portion of it. I'd like to see leaner social programs run by NGOs since they seem to have a better handle on it that any government agency, and that has been my suggetion for who pays for the rapekits, even if the NGO is federally funded. It makes more sense to me that an NGO is responsible for this as opposed to any government entity.

Taxes can only cover so much via the budget. There are constraints to how much taxes can levy and be distributed. Because taxes have not increased in comparison to the services that are being rendered, fees are being assesed to people. This isn't uncommon at all, from phone bills to court rooms. I call it businesses LYING, from private/public companies to governments. It is a TAX. But they won't call it a tax because people will be pissed off. It is a tax, ask of you can get that fee removed, you don't want to pay for it, you didn't order it, you didn't want it, etc. You can't. It's soft worded tax. It didn't require the normal voting and approvals to get past the lawmakers, so FEE it is.

Your property taxes should cover your water and sewer, but in many towns now you pay a seperate fee for your water, and then a seperate fee for how much supposed waste the water uses the sewer system. Why is that? Because increasing the property taxes so high would make people not want to move to such areas.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

kutulu

Rape kits are not services or aid or anything to help the victim. It has nothing to do with victim counseling. It is for evidence collection only. The PD cannot conduct the investigation without it. The only way to form an argument that it may be reasonable to charge the victim is to show any other serious crime where the victim is billed for the evidence collection.

This is what is included in a kit:

The only think that I see as possibly uncessesary is the HIV exam.
-----Added 23/9/2008 at 01 : 03 : 54-----
You've already tried using this. Biohazard cleanup has nothing to do with evidence collection. I see no reason why a taxpayer should be on the hook for biohazard cleanup on private property.

Cynthetiq

I'm not trying to USE anything. Please get that chip off your shoulder, there are OTHER people in this discussion that ASKED

You are free to refrain reading and from responding to my posts since they aren't directed towards you.

NOTE THE QUOTE BOX ABOVE FROM JEWELS ASKING IF CRIME SCENE CLEANUP IS PAID FOR.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Rekna

If we bill the victims and they don't have the money do we report it to creditors? Do we put a lean on their house?

Let's see a poor lady gets raped. She can't afford the kit and knowing she will have to pay for it she decides to not report it. Rapists realize this and begin targeting poor people.

Gotta love the world we would create.

asaris

And since when do we bill the victims for the investigation of crime? Look, I've worked as a prosecuting attorney, I know you don't always have all the resources you could want to prosecute a crime. But when it comes to a serious crime, like rape or murder, the state can and should pay all reasonable expenses to see that the crime is investigated and prosecuted. I see no reason why a rape kit shouldn't be included.

I'm not really sure what you're getting at, Cyn, I'll be honest. If it's just that rape kits cost money, well, sure, of course. So do police officers. But unless you think the investigation and prosecution of crime should be entirely privatized, I'm not sure why you think that the cost of a rape kit is so out of line.

__________________
"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche

Cynthetiq

I love it! You guys only read what you want to read. It's really simple what I posited.

I simply asked, if the starting post of this line, "Raaaaape! She wants to charge for rape kits..." who is going to pay for it? Someone has to.

That's it. Simple as can be.

I didn't say "It's a right!" "It's an entitlement" "I don't want to pay for it" I simply asked,"Who is going to pay for it? the victim? the state? The money has to come from someplace."

But no, there seems to be NO READING COMPREHENSION to the posts I've made, people just getting all up in arms emotional because there's a victim and that's unacceptable and you stop reading.

I've not said anything about costs being out of line. Please read carefully.

She bounced a line item as can be the discretion of someone responsible for financial stewardship. If she's not willing to pay for it, and there is still a need and the cost are being incurred, then it has to be paid somewhere by someone, so the next logical question is WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR IT?

that's ALL MY STATEMENT has ever been.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Rekna

It is clear that we are saying the state/fed/local government should pay for it with the most logical places being the local and then the state as to encourage the local police to lower the crime rate by capturing these guys. With that being said I would love if congress would pass a national law tomorrow similar to what Alaska had to do. Under no circumstances should justice be a privilege for the wealthy.

Cynthetiq

And here is where I'll definitively diverge. It is not a Federal responsibility. It isn't a requirement for the Federal government as listed within the US Constitution.

I'm happy that each state, county, or district take it upon themselves. To claim that the entire US has to have a Federalized program for this, smacks of more than just Homeland Security patrolling our borders, but also allowing them patrolling our cities and streets. It's more pork than I care to want to pay for. No thank you.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

filtherton

I think the problem that you're having Cynthetiq is that it is difficult to understand why your question "who is going to pay for it?" is even that interesting. When it comes to investigating rape with rape kits, the idea that fiscal responsibility is a dominant factor is silly. Maybe if rape kits cost lots and lots of money.

It's like saying "Yeah, well, I know the cops need to drive, but who is going to pay for it? I mean, fiscal responsibility and shit." It's not a complicated issue for most people, so when you try and make it one I think it's difficult to take seriously.

I just hope that you can appreciate the fact that you're shrilly screaming "fiiiiissscal reeesponssibiliteeeee" in exactly the same way you're accusing other people of screaming "raaaaaaaaaaape".

Cynthetiq

no i can't. because I wasn't. I made the statement ONCE, and then had to keep repeating myself because no one bother read past the first 2 words of my posts. Becuase everyone said it's unjust, unfair, victimized, blah blah blah blah rape and never addressed what my first initial response was. Only tried to take me to task for things outside of that scope in some other emotionally tied vein like putting a lein on the victims house for not paying.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

guyy

Y'know, we did read. It's just that your arguments were absurd. And instead of dropping it, you now play the victim. Oh isn't it so unfair, unjust, and don't you feel victimised blah blah blah that no one else sees the molehill as a mountain.

Your trivialisation of rape is appalling, and it's one reason why rape is so traumatic for victims.

Rekna

Part of the federal governments duty is to provide security for the states. Crime investigation and enforcement is part of providing security.....


I would say this falls under common defence and general Welfare.

dc_dux

Violence Against Women Act.....one of Biden's major accomplishments.

Among its provisions, it requires that state/local govts provide rape exams to victims free of charge as a condition of receiving federal funds for other programs under the act. Alaska passed state legislation in order to qualify for federal funding, and yet during her time as mayor, Palin's city still wanted to charge victims.

One section of the law that allowed women to sue their attacker in federal court was later determined to be unconstitutional.

McCain has repeatedly voted against it, even after the latest reauthorization that removed the unconstitutional provision.

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

Cynthetiq

okay absurd, whatever. You guys just want someone that checks off your outrage and agrees with you. And you guys wonder why few people wish to play in the sandbox?

I've not claimed being any victim. Facts are facts, you can read them yourself. I stated facts, not said, "oohh please you didn't read what I wrote, boo hoo." Get over your own ego for a few minutes.

To also state that my position on rape is appalling because I've stated that I'd like to know who pays for the programs has nothing to do with rape, but you guys all seem to want to go the emotional path. If it was ANY social program that was being denied funding, I'd still ask how is this going to be paid, and who is going to pay for it?

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

dc_dux

cyn...what raised some eyebrows is the notion that funding constraints should be a factor in the investigation of what many might appropriately consider the second worst crime one could experience...after murder.

If funding is an issue and PDs neet to cut funding, it should be from the bottom up...starting with victimless programs.

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

Rekna

Many would claim rape to be the worst crime possible even before murder. Rape is the crime that keeps with someone for life and can absolutely destroy a person from the inside out.
-----Added 23/9/2008 at 06 : 57 : 23-----
Here is a question for you Cyn. If a parent is suspected of molesting their child who should pay for the investigation? The child? The parent?