Vetting the GOP VP Nominee Online, in Realtime - Page 3 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ratbastid · 09-03-2008, 11:22 AM

Thanks for the link, _dux, I hadn't seen it in person.

The McCain Official Response is:

Quote:

“As a presidential campaign, we reserve the right to adjust Senator McCain’s media schedule in order to ensure the most effective use of his time,” said Maria Comella, a spokeswoman. “After a relentless refusal by certain on-air reporters to come to terms with John McCain’s selection of Alaska’s sitting governor as our party’s nominee for vice president, we decided John McCain’s time would be better served elsewhere.”

So, okay. If I'm CNN, I say, fine. Take your marbles and go home, if you can't defend your VP choice. Okay. See you in November.

Tully Mars · 09-03-2008, 11:23 AM

I loved this...

Quote:

Any decision she has made as the commander of the National Guard that’s deployed overseas

Campbell quickly pointed out she's not in command of those units, which of course is true. Bounds didn't seem to like that much.

Whoa boy, when talking points go wrong.
-----Added 3/9/2008 at 03 : 27 : 04-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

Thanks for the link, _dux, I hadn't seen it in person.

The McCain Official Response is:

So, okay. If I'm CNN, I say, fine. Take your marbles and go home, if you can't defend your VP choice. Okay. See you in November.

What do you expect from a campaign that assigns seating on their plane based who writes the stories they prefer?

So happens now- baggage hold for the CNN reporter?

Rekna · 09-03-2008, 12:31 PM

Blowing off CNN seems like a bad idea to me. To me CNN is the staple of fair news. They are not biased like MSNBC or Fox. And do not have the stigma of being biased like CBS news. The question they asked was a completely fair question and they got bad because they got caught lying with their pants down.

aceventura3 · 09-03-2008, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hannukah harry

most of what you just typed isn't based on fact. it's just regurgitating talking points.

You asked what I liked about her and I answered. the information available is limited and I have not seen her in action. If you don't like her, perhaps you can share that. My first reaction to a politician is from the "gut". For example Obama passed my initial test, and if he was honest and actually believed in change there would have been a possibility that he would have had my vote. I don't like McCain. My first awareness of McCain was when he was against the MLK federal holiday, his justification for his position was wrong in my view. He later changed his view on the MLK holiday but I also remember his response to a question about the Confederate flag flying in SC. I thought his view was wrong, again he changed. I think in both instances his position change was for political reasons. Many of his other "changes" have been political as well in my view.

Quote:

you trust her judgement on balancing the environment compared to economic growth? why? what in all that's been learned about her has earned that? i doubt she's dealt with that topic enough in 20 months to be 'trusting her judgement' on it.

She lives in an "outdoor" state. She supports economic growth. She is an outdoorsman. given that I think she respects nature but has a realistic view of environmental issues. I think it will be difficult for Biden to explain why he does not support drilling in ANWR in her presence. I think she will be a positive influance on McCain on this issue.

Quote:

and you're not being a gentleman by always coming to the aid of women. i'll say it. you're being a chauvinist.

Cool. Again, I am being honest. I was born with a predisposition to want to be protective of females. I can understand if you don't understand. I just hope that you show me and my kind tolerance.

Quote:

you're saying that women women need your help and protection.

Not at all. I respect women who are strong and who can actually help me when I need it. But if an unknown to me man or woman needed my help, odds are, I would help the woman before the man.

Quote:

how can a woman be VP, possibly Pres, if she needs the protection of big burly men all the time? either she can stand up on her own and defend herself, or she can't and you have to do it for her. which is it? if it's the former, she isn't fit to be VP, if it's the latter, then you obviously don't think she's really up to the job cause a man will need to hold her hand through it all.

I think Hillery Clinton is as tough as nails, I don't agree with her on much but at least she is consistent, clear and honest. I am not say she would need my help in any way, but that doesn't change my nature.

The irony of all of this is that I would have voted for Clinton before I would have voted for McCain. McCain, picking Palin is the best thing he could have done at this point to get my vote and support.
-----Added 3/9/2008 at 04 : 37 : 44-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poppinjay

It sounds like she's has a libertarian appeal to you.

I am a libertarian in many ways. When I left the Libertarian Party (I left the Republican Party during the Clinton impeachment, which I thought was a waste of time and resources) it was because of the Iraq war and the Libertarian Party position on national defense. I was still a registered Libertarian when I voted for Bush in 2000.
-----Added 3/9/2008 at 04 : 40 : 25-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

She's honest? What about the lie regarding the bridge to nowhere and the cash she never gave back?

Do we have her version of the events? Is it clear that she supported the "bridge" or was she supporting funding for improvements in Alaska?
-----Added 3/9/2008 at 04 : 45 : 34-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

I suspect press access to Palin will be very very selective.

I suspect that she won't be fearful of doing an interview with a guy like Bill O'Rielly the way Obama is. Kind of ironic that Obama will be willing to talk to leaders of all countries or specific groups that may be involved in terrorist activity but he won't talk to certain talk show hosts. Again, Hilary Clinton was "man" enough to go on The Factor.
-----Added 3/9/2008 at 04 : 48 : 12-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

What do you expect from a campaign that assigns seating on their plane based who writes the stories they prefer?

If it were me, ladies first.

Tully Mars · 09-03-2008, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

Do we have her version of the events? Is it clear that she supported the "bridge" or was she supporting funding for improvements in Alaska?
-----Added 3/9/2008 at 04 : 45 : 34-----

Yes, it's clear. She was directly asked if she supported the bridge and she said yes. Here's a bit of an article from The Daily News Miner newspaper:

Quote:

On Oct. 22, 2006, the Anchorage Daily News asked Palin and the other candidates, “Would you continue state funding for the proposed Knik Arm and Gravina Island bridges?”

Her response: “Yes. I would like to see Alaska’s infrastructure projects built sooner rather than later. The window is now — while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist.”

Palin’s support of the earmark for the bridge was applauded by the late Lew Williams Jr., the retired Ketchikan Daily News publisher who wrote columns on the topic.

Williams wrote on Oct. 29, 2006, that Palin was the only gubernatorial candidate that year who consistently supported the Gravina Island Bridge, the Knik Arm Bridge and improvements to the Parks Highway.

newsminer.com • Sarah Palin supported Ketchikan ?bridge to nowhere? during 2006 race for Alaska governor

There's also a radio and video clip of her clearly stating she supported the bridge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

I suspect that she won't be fearful of doing an interview with a guy like Bill O'Rielly the way Obama is. Kind of ironic that Obama will be willing to talk to leaders of all countries or specific groups that may be involved in terrorist activity but he won't talk to certain talk show hosts. Again, Hilary Clinton was "man" enough to go on The Factor.
-----Added 3/9/2008 at 04 : 48 : 12-----

Why would she be fearful of going on O'Rielly's show? He's (as well as the rest of the Fox network) bound to love her. It would give her an hour to repeat her talking points and have a host repeatedly agree with her.

asaris · 09-03-2008, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

Do we have her version of the events? Is it clear that she supported the "bridge" or was she supporting funding for improvements in Alaska?
[SIZE="1"][COLOR="DarkSlateGray"]-----Added 3/9/20

Here's a Reuters news story. It's pretty clear she supported the bridge. She's even said that she looks forward to using the V-P position to benefit Alaskans. You can also find news stories from 2007 that clearly show she supported the bridge. She's bragged about the amount of pork she's brought to Alaska, including some provisions McCain attacked specifically as pork.

Quote:

Palin "bridge to nowhere" line angers many Alaskans

By Yereth Rosen Mon Sep 1, 1:50 AM ET

ANCHORAGE, Alaska (Reuters) - It garnered big applause in her first speech as Republican John McCain's vice presidential pick, but Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's assertion that she rejected Congressional funds for the so-called "bridge to nowhere" has upset many Alaskans.
ADVERTISEMENT

During her first speech after being named as McCain's surprise pick as a running mate, Palin said she had told Congress "'thanks but no thanks' on that bridge to nowhere."

In the city Ketchikan, the planned site of the so-called "Bridge to Nowhere," political leaders of both parties said the claim was false and a betrayal of their community, because she had supported the bridge and the earmark for it secured by Alaska's Congressional delegation during her run for governor.

The bridge, a span from the city to Gravina Island, home to only a few dozen people, secured a $223 million earmark in 2005. The pricey designation raised a furor and critics, including McCain, used the bridge as an example of wasteful federal spending on politicians' pet projects.

When she was running for governor in 2006, Palin said she was insulted by the term "bridge to nowhere," according to Ketchikan Mayor Bob Weinstein, a Democrat, and Mike Elerding, a Republican who was Palin's campaign coordinator in the southeast Alaska city.

"People are learning that she pandered to us by saying, I'm for this' ... and then when she found it was politically advantageous for her nationally, abruptly she starts using the very term that she said was insulting," Weinstein said.

Palin's spokeswoman in Alaska was not immediately available to comment.

National fury over the bridge caused Congress to remove the earmark designation, but Alaska was still granted an equivalent amount of transportation money to be used at its own discretion.

Last year, Palin announced she was stopping state work on the controversial project, earning her admirers from earmark critics and budget hawks from around the nation. The move also thrust her into the spotlight as a reform-minded newcomer.

The state, however, never gave back any of the money that was originally earmarked for the Gravina Island bridge, said Weinstein and Elerding.

In fact, the Palin administration has spent "tens of millions of dollars" in federal funds to start building a road on Gravina Island that is supposed to link up to the yet-to-be-built bridge, Weinstein said.

"She said 'thanks but no thanks,' but they kept the money," said Elerding about her applause line.

Former state House Speaker Gail Phillips, a Republican who represented the Kenai Peninsula city of Homer, is also critical about Palin's reversal on the bridge issue.

"You don't tell a group of Alaskans you support something and then go to someplace else and say you oppose it," said Phillips, who supported Palin's opponent, Democrat Tony Knowles, in the 2006 gubernatorial race.

A press release issued by the governor on September 21, 2007 said she decided to cancel state work on the project because of rising cost estimates.

"It's clear that Congress has little interest in spending any more money on a bridge between Ketchikan and Gravina Island," Palin said in the news release. "Much of the public's attitude toward Alaska bridges is based on inaccurate portrayals of the projects here."

(Editing by Daisuke Wakabayashi and Sandra Maler)

flstf · 09-03-2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

I suspect that she won't be fearful of doing an interview with a guy like Bill O'Rielly the way Obama is. Kind of ironic that Obama will be willing to talk to leaders of all countries or specific groups that may be involved in terrorist activity but he won't talk to certain talk show hosts. Again, Hilary Clinton was "man" enough to go on The Factor.

I think he is going on the Factor tomorrow.

Quote:

Obama to Appear on Fox on Thursday Night
By Jeff Zeleny
CHICAGO — Before Senator John McCain delivers his acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention on Thursday, Senator Barack Obama will make a marquee appearance of his own.

Call it counter-intuitive. He will appear on “The O’Reilly Factor” on Fox News Channel.

For Mr. Obama, it will be the first time in his presidential candidacy that he’s on Bill O’Reilly’s prime-time program. The appearance is intended to put Mr. Obama before a conservative audience, one week after drawing 40 million TV viewers at his own acceptance speech.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

Do we have her version of the events? Is it clear that she supported the "bridge" or was she supporting funding for improvements in Alaska?

I thought it was common knowledge that she was for the bridge. Didn't Stevens even campaign for her? I guess now we can refer to the money spent for the road to nowhere.

Quote:

Palin for ‘Bridge to Nowhere’ before she was against it
ANCHORAGE, Alaska - When John McCain introduced Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate Friday, her reputation as a tough-minded budget-cutter was front and center.

"I told Congress, thanks but no thanks on that bridge to nowhere," Palin told the cheering McCain crowd, referring to Ketchikan’s Gravina Island bridge in Alaska.

But Palin was for the Bridge to Nowhere before she was against it.

The Alaska governor campaigned in 2006 on a build-the-bridge platform, telling Ketchikan residents she felt their pain when politicians called them "nowhere." They’re still feeling pain today in Ketchikan, over Palin’s subsequent decision to use the bridge funds for other projects - and over the timing of her announcement, which they say came in a pre-dawn press release that seemed aimed at national news deadlines.

"I think that’s when the campaign for national office began," said Ketchikan mayor Bob Weinstein on Saturday.

Meanwhile, Weinstein noted, the state is continuing to build a road on Gravina Island to an empty beach where the bridge would have gone - because federal money for the access road, unlike the bridge money, would have otherwise been returned to the federal government.

Palin for ‘Bridge to Nowhere’ before she was against it - BostonHerald.com

aceventura3 · 09-03-2008, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

Yes, it's clear. She was directly asked if she supported the bridge and she said yes. Here's a bit of an article from The Daily News Miner newspaper:

newsminer.com • Sarah Palin supported Ketchikan ?bridge to nowhere? during 2006 race for Alaska governor

There's also a radio and video clip of her clearly stating she supported the bridge.

Why would she be fearful of going on O'Rielly's show? He's (as well as the rest of the Fox network) bound to love her. It would give her an hour to repeat her talking points and have a host repeatedly agree with her.

I don't see the clarity you see. Again, I don't know all the facts, but what you posted indicated that she supported the bridge and later changed her view. I don't see this change of position as inconsistent with her most recent statement or a lie. I use a standard of what would I do? First, I would generally support federal infrastructure support. If that support was controversial or had unacceptable conditions I would be inclined to say (my words) - screw it, if we want a bridge we will build it ourselves - we don't need you stink'n money. That's just me, I know most would be more diplomatic.
-----Added 3/9/2008 at 06 : 06 : 43-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by flstf

I think he is going on the Factor tomorrow.

I am impressed. Obama needs to regain credibility, O'Reily was using Obama and tried to make him look like a coward.

Rekna · 09-03-2008, 02:22 PM

Now will McCain go on Rachel Maddow's new show?

asaris · 09-03-2008, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceventura3

I don't see the clarity you see.

What about the following quote? It seems to pretty clearly indicate that she was for the bridge, and only "changed her mind" due to the bad publicity.

Quote:

"It's clear that Congress has little interest in spending any more money on a bridge between Ketchikan and Gravina Island," Palin said in the news release. "Much of the public's attitude toward Alaska bridges is based on inaccurate portrayals of the projects here."

guyy · 09-03-2008, 03:09 PM

I dunno. It goes without saying that the Xian right and the knuckle draggers will eat it up like flies on shit. However, Palin's AIP membership and yahoo-ism doesn't play well in places like Grand Rapids, where conservatives are conservative. It's OK with the East coast old-money crowd -- what do they care as long as they have a free hand & low taxes -- but the less cynical conservatives won't like it. These are the old-church protestants & Catholics + the Main street petit-bourgeois & small town bourgeoisie. Even McCain might be a little too wild for these folks. There's a class anxiety among this strata that makes it difficult for them to identify with Palin, so i don't think the identity politics necessarily works out positively for them.

Looking at how this plays out in terms of states and electoral votes, i could see Palin being a drag on the ticket in Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa & Minnesota, but boosting it in Indiana and Missouri. In other words, a net loss, at least in the upper Mississippi valley.

And this just in:

US election: Conservative pundits caught criticising Palin

The criticisms seem fair.

dc_dux · 09-03-2008, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guyy

And this just in:

US election: Conservative pundits caught criticising Palin

The criticisms seem fair.

guyy...it does make for interesting listening.

Two Republican talking heads - former Reagan speechwriter Peggy Noonan and former McCain adviser Mike Murphy caught on tape when the camera cut away....not sounding very happy about McCain's selection of Palin.

YouTube - Mike Murphy and Peggy Noonan Trip over Live Mics on MSNBC

YouTube - Mike Murphy and Peggy Noonan Trip over Live Mics on MSNBC

Mike Murphy: You know, because I come out of the blue swing state governor world: Engler, Whitman, Tommy Thompson, Mitt Romney, Jeb Bush. I mean, these guys -- this is how you win a Texas race, just run it up. And it's not gonna work. And -

PN: It's over.

MM: Still McCain can give a version of the Lieberman speech to do himself some good.

CT: I also think the Palin pick is insulting to Kay Bailey Hutchinson, too.

PN: Saw Kay this morning.

CT: Yeah, she's never looked comfortable about this --

MM: They're all bummed out.

CT: Yeah, I mean is she really the most qualified woman they could have turned to?

PN: The most qualified? No! I think they went for this -- excuse me-- political bullshit about narratives --

CT: Yeah they went to a narrative.

MM: I totally agree.

PN: Every time the Republicans do that, because that's not where they live and it's not what they're good at, they blow it.

MM: You know what's really the worst thing about it? The greatness of McCain is no cynicism, and this is cynical.

CT: This is cynical, and as you called it, gimmicky.

MM: Yeah.

I wonder how the McCain team will brush this off.....

Tully Mars · 09-03-2008, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

guyy...it does make for interesting listening.

Two Republican talking heads - former Reagan speechwriter Peggy Noonan and former McCain adviser Mike Murphy caught on tape when the camera cut away....not sounding very happy about McCain's selection of Palin.

YouTube - Mike Murphy and Peggy Noonan Trip over Live Mics on MSNBC

Mike Murphy: You know, because I come out of the blue swing state governor world: Engler, Whitman, Tommy Thompson, Mitt Romney, Jeb Bush. I mean, these guys -- this is how you win a Texas race, just run it up. And it's not gonna work. And -

PN: It's over.

MM: Still McCain can give a version of the Lieberman speech to do himself some good.

CT: I also think the Palin pick is insulting to Kay Bailey Hutchinson, too.

PN: Saw Kay this morning.

CT: Yeah, she's never looked comfortable about this --

MM: They're all bummed out.

CT: Yeah, I mean is she really the most qualified woman they could have turned to?

PN: The most qualified? No! I think they went for this -- excuse me-- political bullshit about narratives --

CT: Yeah they went to a narrative.

MM: I totally agree.

PN: Every time the Republicans do that, because that's not where they live and it's not what they're good at, they blow it.

MM: You know what's really the worst thing about it? The greatness of McCain is no cynicism, and this is cynical.

CT: This is cynical, and as you called it, gimmicky.

MM: Yeah.

I wonder how the McCain team will brush this off.....

They'll figure out a way to spin this, you watch. By the time the GOP spinmisters are done they won't even have been talking about Palin. Hell they probably weren't even talking about politics. It was likely a conversation regarding the up coming NFL season. Yeah! That's it! They were talking sports. What's wrong with you liberal anti-life, anti-women bastards? Why must you attack every time a woman discusses sports? Liberal Pigs.

dc_dux · 09-05-2008, 07:59 PM

The McCain camp has made it clear she wont be doing interviews anytime soon:

Quote:

A senior McCain campaign official advises that, despite the gaggle of requests and pressure from the media, Gov. Sarah Palin won't submit to a formal interview anytime soon. She may take some questions from local news entities in Alaska, but until she's ready -- and until she's comfortable -- which might not be for a long while -- the media will have to wait. The campaign believes it can effectively deal with the media's complaints, and their on-the-record response to all this will be: "Sarah Palin needs to spend time with the voters."

No Interviews Till She's Ready

Is she is not ready for Meet the Press, Face the Nation, etc., what makes her ready to hold the second highest elective office in the country?

Rekna · 09-05-2008, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

Is she is not ready for Meet the Press, Face the Nation, etc., what makes her ready to hold the second highest elective office in the country?

She is McCain's soul mate and McCain was a POW so how dare you say she is not ready!

Paq · 09-05-2008, 09:23 PM

i'm going the jaded route
and i am betting..not much, but i'm betting...that there will be an 'accidental miscarriage' in october...

Tully Mars · 09-06-2008, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_dux

The McCain camp has made it clear she wont be doing interviews anytime soon:

Is she is not ready for Meet the Press, Face the Nation, etc., what makes her ready to hold the second highest elective office in the country?

I don't know the whole story but they (the right) seem to be trying to use Oprah as fodder. Sounded like Palin would go on Oprah but that liberal bitch wouldn't let her on her show. I got this cruising a few right wing forums and blogs yesterday afternoon. Haven't heard anything directly out of the McCain camp. Seems like an orchestrated bluff. I'd like to see Oprah call that bluff and invite her on, esp. if she won't go on anything else. I'm not a big Oprah fan, don't need tips on how to apply my make-up and don't care much about what the cast of Grey's Anatomy thinks. But I could see Oprah taking her to task...

So you've stated you're against pork? Why were you the first Wasilla Mayor to hire a lobbyist to get ear mark spending for your town?

When did you go from being in favor of the bridge to no where to being against it? Why did you say you sent the money for the bridge back when you actually used it on other Alaskan projects?

John McCain said you sold the states jet on E-Bay for a profit. Have you had the chance to tell him that's not true, you actually tried to sell it on E-Bay and it didn't sell, so you sold it through a broker... at a loss.

Do you favor the AIP and their bid to separate from the US? If not why did you make a video for their most recent convention?

Are you or your husband members of the AIP?
-----Added 6/9/2008 at 07 : 57 : 29-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paq

i'm going the jaded route
and i am betting..not much, but i'm betting...that there will be an 'accidental miscarriage' in october...

Wow, I thought I was jaded.

I watched as Obama's kids talked to him via Satellite and thought "bet they got coaching to be really happy to see daddy. Make sure you ask him where he is etc..." Then during the GOP conv. I saw the Palin's daughter caring for her younger sister and thought the same. "Hold her in your lap, bounce her on your knee, fix her collar, hair etc..."

I don't think any of this stuff just happens any more, anywhere and everywhere is a stage and it's all staged, IMO.

Poppinjay · 09-08-2008, 08:24 AM

Palin calls Obama "Sambo", her own state residents "mukluks", Hillary "bitch"

abaya · 09-08-2008, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poppinjay

Palin calls Obama "Sambo", her own state residents "mukluks", Hillary "bitch"

Poppinjay, that article is some of the yellowest journalism I have seen.

EDIT: In fact, it's from a blog. As much as I dislike McPalin, this is a sorry excuse for an article.

Poppinjay · 09-08-2008, 08:44 AM

Is it really? It's a blog, while the swiftboaters made their claims about John Kerry on the much more reliable NPR.

Tully Mars · 09-08-2008, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poppinjay

Is it really? It's a blog, while the swiftboaters made their claims about John Kerry on the much more reliable NPR.

So now we're setting our standards based on how the swiftboater's ran their crap tossing BS?

It's a blog. Though at times it's like reading bizzaro Fox news. Some of my favorite headlines are :

Quote:

"Angry Organizer to RNC: “Go to Hell!”

"Republicans Are Mean"

"Obama: Historical Immortality at 47"

“Bush Lied, They Died” Draws a Drunken Punch"

Do any of these sound like actual news stories from legitimate outlets? Or do they sound like the flip side of Fox?

Poppinjay · 09-08-2008, 09:17 AM

No, we're experiencing real time vetting of Sarah Palin. And so it goes.

Tully Mars · 09-08-2008, 09:31 AM

It makes it really hard to do any actual fact finding when the rumors start to fly. If anything these rumors are greatly helping Palin. Whether it's the 'it wasn't her kid" to "she's a racists, everyone in Alaska knows it." Every time one of these turns out to be false she gains a few more public opinion points. She can simply claim "see, I told you they're out to smear me." At this point I'd be surprise if at least some of these aren't being released, anonymously of course, by the RNC staff.

*cough* Rove *cough, cough*

They put out these easily disprovable rumors and sooner or later everything gets dismissed. It's like reversed "cry wolf." And it's been shown to work... very well.

ratbastid · 09-08-2008, 09:53 AM

I find it very interesting that the people who were SCREEEEEECHING about Obama's church and pastor aren't just as inflamed about Palin's. The things her church preaches are way scarier than anything Rev. Wright said. But they don't threaten the White Man's dominance, so they're probably okay, I guess.

Tully Mars · 09-08-2008, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

I find it very interesting that the people who were SCREEEEEECHING about Obama's church and pastor aren't just as inflamed about Palin's. The things her church preaches are way scarier than anything Rev. Wright said. But they don't threaten the White Man's dominance, so they're probably okay, I guess.

I don't see it that way at all. Unless I'm missing something. Palin's church is exactly the type of church the right wing base loves. Obama's church had pastors saying the US Gov. is trying to kill black people with AIDS and crack cocaine. The views of Palin's church and even many of her comments are music to the ears of many on the right.

Poppinjay · 09-09-2008, 03:49 AM

My former comment I should say, is that if that blog is some of the yellowist journalism people have seen, then people don't remember the blue dress saga, and have not studied the yellow kid wars of Pulitzer v. Hearst.

The guy has a blog, and 40 years experience as a journalist. In retirement, he has an agenda, and pursues interviews that fit his views. How is this worse than the piles of ABC News reports citing unnamed sources about the blue dress?

roachboy · 09-09-2008, 04:07 AM

for what it's worth, i tend to relativize this dimension of the planet blog---i think there are alot of people who are and have been offended and angered by what has come of the blur of tabloid and information, gossip and facts about the world (whatever a fact really is), the substitution of personality construction for comprehensive analysis, the evacuation of the space for system critique and its replacement with a fatuous cycling of surface infotainment in the context of which the system-level remains always necessarily legitimate no matter what happens and all possibility of critique gets collapsed onto defects of an individual personality--a ghost-personality no less, product of the circulation of factoids itself. it has beena smothering descent into trivia, as if the Interests of Commerce-uber-alles has forced us from being able to stand in front of the clothes dryer to being stuffed face-first into the lint screen.

because consumers have NO power, because consumers are nice little creatures who desire what they are told they desire within the ranges that they are told they want, so they can "express themselves" by acquiring a "personalized" sequence of otherwise identical commodities, consumers of infotainment have been subjected to this, and have subjected themselves to it. at the level of framing memes, consumers are told that markets are necessarily rational and with that the descent into a blizzard of trivial is presented as the march forward of "progress"---a favorite bourgeois conceit.

i think people are pissed off by this, fed up by it, but being nice adaptable creatures who view the world from a chair in their living room (70% of americans imagine television as a primary "information source") they have no choice but to adapt to it, in this the freeest of all possible situations (except where it isn't) in this the best of all possible worlds (which is a shabby, ugly, idiotic sham)...so they act out. the planet blog seems to me in significant measure a theater for acting-out.

and everyone knows that the primary drivers behind this descent into trivia have been politically conservative--the symbol of rupert murdoch functions as a convenience here---and everyone knows that it has been the conservative media apparatus that has pioneered the routinization of yellow journalism passed off as information in the television context. and everyone knows that there is a convergence between that and the world as presented in advertisements, as a world of commodity-desires. and if you think about it, i imagine it self-evident that this shitty state of affairs is a very good expression of capitalism in all its slick superficiality and brutal self-referentiality.

so you either repeat the mechanisms and turn them back on the conservatives when the opportunity presents itself--in which case there is gratification but a net less in that you de facto participate in legitimating the order itself when you play the game as the order has come to play it across the one-dimensional flashing theater of television---or you criticize the order itself, in which case you are excluded from access to the one-dimensional theater of the bourgeois world and it's logic.

but all this is normal, comrades, like the weather, like neoliberalism.

every once in a while, i remember that lars von trier was right in "dogville" about the american system.

aceventura3 · 09-09-2008, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asaris

What about the following quote? It seems to pretty clearly indicate that she was for the bridge, and only "changed her mind" due to the bad publicity.

A person can be for a "reasonably cost" bridge, and be against a bridge that is too expensive. A person can be for a bridge and then change their view based on new information. a person can be for a bridge, but given limited resources be against it relative to other priorities.

Why are the Democrats reminding everyone of the flawed logic used by people like Kerry? I would think they would want to move from that as far as possible. The bridge issue is not like a person being for a war and against it at the same time.

ottopilot · 09-09-2008, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

...
and everyone knows that the primary drivers behind this descent into trivia have been politically conservative--the symbol of rupert murdoch functions as a convenience here---and everyone knows that it has been the conservative media apparatus that has pioneered the routinization of yellow journalism passed off as information in the television context. and everyone knows that there is a convergence between that and the world as presented in advertisements, as a world of commodity-desires. and if you think about it, i imagine it self-evident that this shitty state of affairs is a very good expression of capitalism in all its slick superficiality and brutal self-referentiality.

And everybody knows this lacks any objectivity (or credibility). Infotainment sucks... there's plenty coming from all directions. Glass houses are also available in 3-D.

Rekna · 09-09-2008, 12:39 PM

What do you all think about the fact that Palin was charging the Alaskan tax payers per diem for staying at her own house?

Tully Mars · 09-09-2008, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna

What do you all think about the fact that Palin was charging the Alaskan tax payers per diem for staying at her own house?

Sounds like, least from what I read, she ended up charging a hell of a lot less then the guy she replaced. Plus it sounds like she was following the rules and could have charged much more. She spent something like 93K on travel, the previous governor spent several 100K on travel. Of course I'd be more then happy to be proved wrong, but honestly I smell yet another red herring.

Cynthetiq · 09-09-2008, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna

What do you all think about the fact that Palin was charging the Alaskan tax payers per diem for staying at her own house?

it's common for pols and executives to be reimbursed in such manner for staying at home. the total cost is the number you should be more concerned with since the per diem is an accepted GAP rule.

Would it have made more sense for her to spent the money staying 1 block away from her home and charging 4x the amount?

tully what I've read is that the incumbent before her was $400k+ versus her $97k

Rekna · 09-09-2008, 01:06 PM

I guess I don't understand why she should get per diem while staying at home.... My work offers per diem when i'm traveling but not when i'm at home. Does yours offer it when you aren't traveling? Does Bush get per diem when he stays at his Ranch?

Tully Mars · 09-09-2008, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

tully what I've read is that the incumbent before her was $400k+ versus her $97k

I didn't go back and research the numbers but these sound right. Really who would you rather have- someone costing the gov. 100K or 400K?

I don't like her for many, many reasons, this isn't one of them.

You watch the RNC will get the DNC to take the bait on this and many other issues. The GOP is playing this very smart lately.

Rekna · 09-09-2008, 01:10 PM

Also the spending of the previous governor, who was also a republican, doesn't really matter. Can you imagine if we let criminals use that same defense? "Well I wasn't as drunk as that other guy when I hit the kid with my car."

Tully Mars · 09-09-2008, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna

I guess I don't understand why she should get per diem while staying at home.... My work offers per diem when i'm traveling but not when i'm at home. Does yours offer it when you aren't traveling? Does Bush get per diem when he stays at his Ranch?

First of all using the POTUS as a comparison to anyone else is a waste of time. No matter who it is or what party they're from they get treated differently then anyone else. Or does your work provide you with a US Marine Corp. copter to take you home and to your vacation?

Second she the Governor of a state. Many top level state officials get housing, personal staff etc..that other government and private employees do not.

Third she the governor of a state that is unlike any other state. The distances needed to travel are increased simply due to the states geographical size. Just getting from one end of the state to the other or even from her home to the state capitol can be time consuming and at times (winter) dangerous. The fact she's cut her travel expense to less then 1/4 that of the last guy that had her job should tell you something, IMHO.

Cynthetiq · 09-09-2008, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna

Also the spending of the previous governor, who was also a republican, doesn't really matter. Can you imagine if we let criminals use that same defense? "Well I wasn't as drunk as that other guy when I hit the kid with my car."

It's not about a defense. It's about how things are paid for via GAP rules. Companies are allowed to do as they see fit. Your company doesn't give per diem for home stays, others do. It also can depend on what level you are in your company. Your CEO may get per diem for his home stays depending on circumstances.

Quote:

Frequently Asked Questions About GSA - Per Diem Overview
What is per diem?
Per diem is the allowance for lodging (excluding taxes), meals and incidental expenses. The General Services Administration (GSA) establishes per diem rates for destinations within the Continental United States (CONUS). The State Department establishes the foreign rates (for example, Russia, Aruba, Bahamas, Europe, etc.). The Department of Defense (DOD) establishes non-foreign rates such as Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, and Guam. For more information on non-foreign rates, visit DOD's Per Diem, Travel, and Transportation Allowance Committee at https://secureapp2.hqda.pentagon.mil/perdiem/ ; foreign rates can be found at Page not found.

Let's say I'm traveling from NY to LA on government business.

According to the GSA per diem list for Los Angeles. I can spend $118 on housing, $64 meals and incidental expenses totaling $182.

If I stay at my sister's house and she feeds me the whole time I'm traveling, I can get $182 for each day as my per diem and pocket the entire amount. There's nothing bilking or cheating anyone or anything. In fact the person who should feel cheated is my sister since she put me up and fed me.

I'm not familiar with where her home is situated in comparison to the Capital offices, but if she's not incurring the budgeted expense of hotel housing, then a per diem is perfectly fair.

In fact, if you think it's so outrageous, please check into your state senator and congressional representative. You'll find that they tend to BUY a 2nd home in Washington DC and collect the per diem that I've explained.

This policy is common place.

Willravel · 09-09-2008, 01:51 PM

Is Todd Palin planning on leaving his businesses in Alaska so he can help to raise the kids in Washington? I'm just curious.

Tully Mars · 09-09-2008, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willravel

Is Todd Palin planning on leaving his businesses in Alaska so he can help to raise the kids in Washington? I'm just curious.

Would you ask this question if the gender roles were reversed?

dc_dux · 09-09-2008, 02:18 PM

I think its time to stop with the PALINtology and put the focus back on the top dog.

Palin has energized the social conservative base and that is not likely to change. McCain's policy positions have not changed with her on the ticket and IMO, those are losing positions with many of the swing voters.

Hit him again, harder!

Let her be who/what she is and leave it to Biden to debate her on Oct. 2.

09-05-2008, 09:23 PM	#96 (permalink)
Paq Junkie Location: South Carolina	i'm going the jaded route and i am betting..not much, but i'm betting...that there will be an 'accidental miscarriage' in october... __________________ Live. Chris

09-08-2008, 08:24 AM	#98 (permalink)
Poppinjay You had me at hello Location: DC/Coastal VA	Palin calls Obama "Sambo", her own state residents "mukluks", Hillary "bitch" __________________ I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

09-08-2008, 08:44 AM	#100 (permalink)
Poppinjay You had me at hello Location: DC/Coastal VA	Is it really? It's a blog, while the swiftboaters made their claims about John Kerry on the much more reliable NPR. __________________ I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

09-08-2008, 09:17 AM	#102 (permalink)
Poppinjay You had me at hello Location: DC/Coastal VA	No, we're experiencing real time vetting of Sarah Palin. And so it goes. __________________ I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

09-08-2008, 09:31 AM	#103 (permalink)
Tully Mars Living in a Warmer Insanity Super Moderator Location: Yucatan, Mexico	It makes it really hard to do any actual fact finding when the rumors start to fly. If anything these rumors are greatly helping Palin. Whether it's the 'it wasn't her kid" to "she's a racists, everyone in Alaska knows it." Every time one of these turns out to be false she gains a few more public opinion points. She can simply claim "see, I told you they're out to smear me." At this point I'd be surprise if at least some of these aren't being released, anonymously of course, by the RNC staff. cough Rove cough, cough They put out these easily disprovable rumors and sooner or later everything gets dismissed. It's like reversed "cry wolf." And it's been shown to work... very well. __________________ I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

09-03-2008, 12:31 PM	#83 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	Blowing off CNN seems like a bad idea to me. To me CNN is the staple of fair news. They are not biased like MSNBC or Fox. And do not have the stigma of being biased like CBS news. The question they asked was a completely fair question and they got bad because they got caught lying with their pants down.

09-03-2008, 02:22 PM	#89 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	Now will McCain go on Rachel Maddow's new show?

09-03-2008, 03:09 PM	#91 (permalink)
guyy Addict Location: Cottage Grove, Wisconsin	I dunno. It goes without saying that the Xian right and the knuckle draggers will eat it up like flies on shit. However, Palin's AIP membership and yahoo-ism doesn't play well in places like Grand Rapids, where conservatives are conservative. It's OK with the East coast old-money crowd -- what do they care as long as they have a free hand & low taxes -- but the less cynical conservatives won't like it. These are the old-church protestants & Catholics + the Main street petit-bourgeois & small town bourgeoisie. Even McCain might be a little too wild for these folks. There's a class anxiety among this strata that makes it difficult for them to identify with Palin, so i don't think the identity politics necessarily works out positively for them. Looking at how this plays out in terms of states and electoral votes, i could see Palin being a drag on the ticket in Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa & Minnesota, but boosting it in Indiana and Missouri. In other words, a net loss, at least in the upper Mississippi valley. And this just in: US election: Conservative pundits caught criticising Palin The criticisms seem fair.

09-08-2008, 09:53 AM	#104 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	I find it very interesting that the people who were SCREEEEEECHING about Obama's church and pastor aren't just as inflamed about Palin's. The things her church preaches are way scarier than anything Rev. Wright said. But they don't threaten the White Man's dominance, so they're probably okay, I guess.

09-09-2008, 03:49 AM	#106 (permalink)
Poppinjay You had me at hello Location: DC/Coastal VA	My former comment I should say, is that if that blog is some of the yellowist journalism people have seen, then people don't remember the blue dress saga, and have not studied the yellow kid wars of Pulitzer v. Hearst. The guy has a blog, and 40 years experience as a journalist. In retirement, he has an agenda, and pursues interviews that fit his views. How is this worse than the piles of ABC News reports citing unnamed sources about the blue dress? __________________ I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

09-09-2008, 04:07 AM	#107 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	for what it's worth, i tend to relativize this dimension of the planet blog---i think there are alot of people who are and have been offended and angered by what has come of the blur of tabloid and information, gossip and facts about the world (whatever a fact really is), the substitution of personality construction for comprehensive analysis, the evacuation of the space for system critique and its replacement with a fatuous cycling of surface infotainment in the context of which the system-level remains always necessarily legitimate no matter what happens and all possibility of critique gets collapsed onto defects of an individual personality--a ghost-personality no less, product of the circulation of factoids itself. it has beena smothering descent into trivia, as if the Interests of Commerce-uber-alles has forced us from being able to stand in front of the clothes dryer to being stuffed face-first into the lint screen. because consumers have NO power, because consumers are nice little creatures who desire what they are told they desire within the ranges that they are told they want, so they can "express themselves" by acquiring a "personalized" sequence of otherwise identical commodities, consumers of infotainment have been subjected to this, and have subjected themselves to it. at the level of framing memes, consumers are told that markets are necessarily rational and with that the descent into a blizzard of trivial is presented as the march forward of "progress"---a favorite bourgeois conceit. i think people are pissed off by this, fed up by it, but being nice adaptable creatures who view the world from a chair in their living room (70% of americans imagine television as a primary "information source") they have no choice but to adapt to it, in this the freeest of all possible situations (except where it isn't) in this the best of all possible worlds (which is a shabby, ugly, idiotic sham)...so they act out. the planet blog seems to me in significant measure a theater for acting-out. and everyone knows that the primary drivers behind this descent into trivia have been politically conservative--the symbol of rupert murdoch functions as a convenience here---and everyone knows that it has been the conservative media apparatus that has pioneered the routinization of yellow journalism passed off as information in the television context. and everyone knows that there is a convergence between that and the world as presented in advertisements, as a world of commodity-desires. and if you think about it, i imagine it self-evident that this shitty state of affairs is a very good expression of capitalism in all its slick superficiality and brutal self-referentiality. so you either repeat the mechanisms and turn them back on the conservatives when the opportunity presents itself--in which case there is gratification but a net less in that you de facto participate in legitimating the order itself when you play the game as the order has come to play it across the one-dimensional flashing theater of television---or you criticize the order itself, in which case you are excluded from access to the one-dimensional theater of the bourgeois world and it's logic. but all this is normal, comrades, like the weather, like neoliberalism. every once in a while, i remember that lars von trier was right in "dogville" about the american system. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

09-09-2008, 12:39 PM	#110 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	What do you all think about the fact that Palin was charging the Alaskan tax payers per diem for staying at her own house?

09-09-2008, 01:06 PM	#113 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	I guess I don't understand why she should get per diem while staying at home.... My work offers per diem when i'm traveling but not when i'm at home. Does yours offer it when you aren't traveling? Does Bush get per diem when he stays at his Ranch?

09-09-2008, 01:10 PM	#115 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	Also the spending of the previous governor, who was also a republican, doesn't really matter. Can you imagine if we let criminals use that same defense? "Well I wasn't as drunk as that other guy when I hit the kid with my car."

09-09-2008, 01:51 PM	#118 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Is Todd Palin planning on leaving his businesses in Alaska so he can help to raise the kids in Washington? I'm just curious.

09-09-2008, 02:18 PM	#120 (permalink)
dc_dux Location: Washington DC	I think its time to stop with the PALINtology and put the focus back on the top dog. Palin has energized the social conservative base and that is not likely to change. McCain's policy positions have not changed with her on the ticket and IMO, those are losing positions with many of the swing voters. Hit him again, harder! Let her be who/what she is and leave it to Biden to debate her on Oct. 2. __________________ "The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 09-09-2008 at 02:22 PM..