Halx

You'd be surprised. I mean, I'm a car guy myself, but I bet it was news to most people. There's a reason why energy conservation ads have ridiculously simple tips all over them - people don't think about these things unless they have to.

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guy44

Well, you got me there. I suppose I'd consider it a grand achievement if I married super-rich!

Nonetheless, the fact that the uncounted multitude of houses may belong to his wife doesn't matter - the underlying point, the reason that Democrats have harped on this issue, is that it underlines just how rich and how not-average joe the McCains are. The fact that doing so undermines the GOP attacks on Obama that claim he's elitist is icing on the cake. And, frankly, this is politics. No politician running for president should be unable to answer this question.

As for the issues...well, Obama has approximately one gazillion positions laid out very clearly on his website. If the thorough summaries on his positions aren't enough, the site helpfully includes links to his relevant speeches on the bottom of the page, as well as links to pdfs that describe in greater depth his positions on issues such as "Read Obama’s Plan for a 21st Century Military" or "Read Barack Obama’s Plan to Actively Engage China."

For Obama's plan for Iraq, btw, you could just go ask Iraq President Maliki, who basically endorsed it and agreed with Bush to enact Obama's plan, plus about a year more of occupation.

As far as healthcare...well, I can't imagine there's any more to explain after the primaries. I'm pretty sure I heard Obama discuss every inch of his proposals. But I'm pretty eager to hear him compare his proposals to McCains in the debates...

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dc_dux

For the record, from a GAO report (pdf):

More than one quarter of cars and about a third of light trucks have one or more tires underinflated 8 psi or more below the recommended level.

The Department of Energy’s designated economist on this issue indicated that, of the 130 billion gallons of fuel that the Transportation Research Board (TRB) estimated were used in passenger cars and light trucks in 2005, about 1.2 billion gallons were wasted as a result of driving on underinflated tires.

Thats a helluva lot of wasted gas!
-----Added 27/8/2008 at 01 : 21 : 06-----
I agree their respective healthcare plans have been laid out pretty well....at least the underlying basics.

McCain's wants to give $2500 individual tax credit ($5000 for families) to buy health insurance outside of the work place....and pay for it by cutting the current tax incentives to employers...which would adversely impact employed-based health plans....and someone should tell him you cant buy comprehensive family health insurance for $5000/year (the average cost of family health care coverage is about $12,000/yr).

Obama wants to cover all kids w/o insurance by including them in SCHIP and strengthen employer-based plans with additional tax incentives to employers to keep premiums (employees share) from increasing and to provide a program for small businesses w/o plans to join pools to provide coverage to employees. He would pay for it with the significantly increased revenue generated by restoring the tax rate on the top 1% to pre-2000 levels (as currently required by law)....but he is spreading that anticipated increased tax revenue kinda thin to pay for alot of programs and initiatives.

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forseti-6

Wow. I have never seen those numbers before.
-----Added 27/8/2008 at 07 : 37 : 52-----
I really liked the Saddleback forum because we got to compare them quasi-side by side. I am looking forward to the debates!

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Rekna

Attack what the article says not the source especially when the source isn't generally considered bias.
-----Added 27/8/2008 at 12 : 22 : 10-----
Thanks for finding that report dc_dux.
-----Added 27/8/2008 at 04 : 17 : 38-----
Here is a good example of how out of touch McCain is.


He thinks people wouldn't take a job for $50 an hour for unskilled labor...

Just in case you don't want to do the math that is $104,000 a year. I think the dems should put this video in its entirety in some adds quickly. Some were claiming Obama is arrogant and talking down to people how about McCain here? He even tells them they they won't be able to do it!

ottopilot

Who was the audience McCain was speaking to?

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Rekna

the AFL-CIO Building and Construction Trades Department (BCTD)

forseti-6

What's this in reference to? A 20-second clip doesn't offer enough.

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pan6467

It's hard to see what the context was there.

20 seconds is not enough to know anything about the context of this. What was he responding to? What is the labor he is asking one to do? Too many questions that go unanswered in that 20 second blurb to understand what he is talking about.

If he is talking about hard labor in Yuma during the whole Summer season.... he's right, there aren't very many I know of here in the US that would be able to work a whole Summer doing hard labor in Yuma, no matter what the pay.

Show the whole interaction that went on, then ask for people to respond.

To just show this and say "see he's out of touch" or "see he's an elitist" is bull pucky. I'm sure someone can find a 20 second blurb of Obama going off about something.. and without any context or knowledge of what he is responding to make it look like something it isn't.
-----Added 27/8/2008 at 10 : 01 : 51-----
It does to those who want to bash him and can't find anything else that they think will work.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Rekna

$50 an hour is more than my wife and I make together (by a large margin). I find it hard to believe there wouldn't be a tun of people willing to do "hard labor" picking lettuce for that price. Even when he said it the crowd was yelling they would do it and he got mad at them and yelled at them saying they "can't do it". If Obama said this people would be asking us why does he hate America.
-----Added 27/8/2008 at 10 : 19 : 27-----
If you think only democrats are outraged look at comments by freepers:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1615112/posts

they are some of the most conservative people around.
-----Added 27/8/2008 at 10 : 21 : 09-----
Here is some context

pig

Out of curiosity, is that $50/hr in terms of what the worker sees, what the worker sees after tax, or what the employer pays? ie. considering overhead, benefits, fica, etc?

/back to my rock.

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Rekna

I'm guessing before taxes, but $104,000 pre-tax income is extremely high for unskilled labor

niftydrifty

It's either going to be Romney (wasn't he Rush's favorite?) or a crowd-pleasing social conservative.

ASU2003

I've worked in the summer (outside) in Yuma for less than $50/hr for a few weeks. I've worked in the south with humidity for less than $50/hr too.

Maybe I'll be the VP...I'll be at the speech on Friday to hear what he has to say. And it sounds like McCain may actually make the announcement count and be interesting. (Instead of a text message to a few people at 4am...Obama should have gone on the O'reilly Factor or Sat. Night Live or something to announce Biden...)

Johnny Rotten

I think Romney looks good on the surface, but he's another Rich Guy, and his Mormonism would not play well in the Bible Belt, where I expect McCain to have the greatest success.

Another guy on the short list, Tim Pawlenty, is an Evangelical Christian, which is right up their alley. But I think Biden would cheerfully eat him for lunch in a debate.

Colin Powell is 71 or so, which puts him out of the picture.

Then there's Lieberman, but I doubt that his Judaism would play much better than Romney's Mormonism. He's also pro-choice, while McCain has recently reiterated his pro-life stance, even in cases of rape.

It's really not looking good on that side of the aisle, IMO.

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forseti-6

McCain won't pick Lieberman. That's suicide for his campaign. Much of the evangelical vote has made it clear that if McCain picked a pro-choice VP, he would lose their vote.

That being said, I think Pawlenty and Romney would be the best choices. I don't think Romney's Mormonism will really hurt the ticket much, and his economic experience will bring in votes from Michigan and Ohio.

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Poppinjay

Romney is worth a quarter of a billion dollars. McCain is worth $25-$38 million. Expect to hear that frequently, along with McCain snippets about $50 wages and a $1 million networth being "middle income".

All democrats need is video of McCain or Romney trying to figure out how to buy socks.

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Rekna

Here is a bit more context

He was responding to someone in the audience yelling pay them the right wages. So his $50 mark does not seem to be that he misspoke.

pan6467

He stated the whole season. I would have lasted a week or 2 but the whole Summer..... not for 50, not for 100. I can withstand alot, but not that.

I still say it looks like both are trying to degrade themselves and their supporters. I honestly look at both of these guys and the things they say and wonder why we have allowed such idiots, such elitist, asses who proudly show that they have their own agendas and the country be damned. Both are so f'n slimy and nuts that I can only hope and pray McCain chooses a strng man who has great pride and vision in this country and can lead.

These are the most pathetic presidential nominees I have ever seen or heard of.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

kutulu

People can and will do a lot more than they are given credit for. When I was 16 I worked 8 hour shifts bringing carts in from Sam's Club in the Phoenix summer for $5/hour. That just as difficult as picking lettuce in Yuma. People work outside all the time in Arizona and very few of them get paid $50/hour.

What a joke.

Rekna

The lettuce season in Yuma is in the winter when it is not so hot. There are people in this country that work very hard and have very hard jobs that pay very little. McCain said Americans are unable to work as hard as Mexicans and went as far to say we "can't" do the job. That is very unpatriotic way more than saying for the first time in my life i'm truly proud of America.....

Willravel

Looks like it's going to be Tim Pawlenty, so start practicing the proper pronouncing of "Pawlenty".

guy44

Well, it won't be as hilariously terrible a pick as Lieberman or Romney would have, so I gotta give McCain that. This reminds me very much of how McCain became the GOP candidate: the field was so awful that eventually people whittled away the guys with the most obviously unacceptable flaws. In the primary, that meant getting rid of Romney (the lyingest cyborg on earth), Rudy (crazy), Thompson (old and didn't really care to run very much), Huckabee (way too conservative socially and not 100% in line with the tax jihad folks), Paul (crazy/the only one not crazy on the topic of Iraq), etc.

Now, McCain had to eliminate Lieberman (Jewish and pro-choice and old), Ridge (pro-choice), Crist (at the very least, metrosexual), Rudy (crazy), Romney (cyborg, plus his richness really makes him and McCain seem out-of-touch), etc.

Pawlenty is boring and has no name recognition. He might - might - put Minnesota in play, although I doubt it. If it is him, I think McCain made the right choice. Doesn't mean he'll make a great running mate.

P.S.

I think Obama was also kind of screwed by his choice of running mates. Biden won't shut up and worked on the hideous bankruptcy bill, Edwards is an adulterer, Hillary could never be chosen after that primary, Bayh and Kaine and all the other bland white guys would have been the ultimate cop-out for the "change" campaign, Sebelius is awesome but a bad speaker, Gore is unavailable, etc. The major difference is that Obama is pretty awesome, while McCain is a compromise.

Edit: Just read this, and thought it was a funny line:

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filtherton

Pawlenty would make a great 21st century republican VP; he hasn't a shred of integrity in his body.

Poppinjay

I really think it will be Bobby Jindal. His real first name is Piyush. That would be a huge plus for McCain.

It depends on Gustav.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

pan6467

Not happening. Sounds like it's Palin of Alaska. McCain and the GOP powers are wise to put a female there. Of course, it is to be announced in Ohio today..... still time for Voinivich.

And that plane from Anchorage could have been anyone. It's kind of really shooting in the dark to assume it was Palin.

Pawlenty indicates he's not McCain's veep choice - Yahoo! News

-----Added 29/8/2008 at 09 : 41 : 30-----


Governor Palin with Alaska's At-large U.S. Representative Don Young



OOOOO what a hotty...... McCain is definitely getting the 18-25 yr old male vote there.......and the prepubescent males.... if they could vote. lol

This would definitely get some of the Hillary voters.

Of course Wiki says this:

Sarah Palin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

ottopilot

Apparently Sarah Palin is back stage at the McCain rally. This is according to FOX news getting a tip from an event worker. If this is true, McCain has played his cards well. The news is all about McCain and his VP choice... barely any mention in the media of Obama's big event since early this morning. If it is Palin, she'll be the big buzz in the headlines for days to come effectively deflating any residual boost from Obama's nomination extravaganza.

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Daval

It's been confirmed. Palin it is.

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dc_dux

A very strange pick indeed, if it turns out to be the case.

A candidates with virtually no political experience - just over one year as governor and mayor of a small town prior to that....no economic experience (McCain's weakness) and even less foreign policy experience.

The idea she may attract some Clinton females voters is nonsense. She is an anti-choice activist and has little to offer those voters in terms of health care and children/family policy or other social issues that match their core beliefs.

I agree it may create a buzz for a few days, but not necessarily in a good way.

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pan6467

McCain's choice today would make or break him. Every news agency I listen to, read, watch, focussed today on who McCain's choice is NOT the Messiah's speech.

So if McCain chose a so so pick or someone that was hohum.... it would break him.... he'd be fighting an uphill battle and have no momentum.

However, if he picks the right person, picks someone with great charisma and is super strong..... he just overshadowed everything the DNC did the last few days. He wiped out the Messiah's sermon on the mount because the talk will be ALL about his running mate.

And .... the best part is IF it is Palin..... Hillary will go nuts. Nuts enough to maybe run 3rd party.

McCain just played a trump card and destroyed Obama. Obama will have a very hard time overcoming this.

Our first Female president will be Palin....... unless Hillary runs NOW.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

dc_dux

pan and otto...we must be watching different news or reading different papers.

This pick of an inexperienced women who shares few political values with probably half the women in the country will destroy Obama?.....only in your dreams, pan.

I know you guys want to see someone take Obama down. but I honestly dont see how an objective observer would believe that this pick would result in that person.

__________________
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Poppinjay

Edit: In answer to Pan

You really think so? She's almost a nobody. One year as a governor. From a state that holds no cards.

I think many conservatives are going to run from her pro-gay stance and others will think he picked her just because of the Hillary factor. In fact, I think Hillary will destroy her in campaigning for Barack.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

ottopilot

Well of course newspapers have a significant delay, so afternoon and evening editions would be more indicative.

I've been watching MSNBC, the most Obama-friendly news channel... mostly hubbub on who McCain's VP choice would be, very little on Obama. Since the choice of Palin broke, wall-to-wall McCain / Palin issues.

Brilliant move by McCain yanking media coverage away from Obama...no "basking in the glow" for the anointed one. However, a very risky move for the republicans going with such an unknown and inexperienced running mate.

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Frosstbyte

Unless wikipedia's description of her politics is grossly inaccurate (which it may be), I don't really see the point of this nomination. She comes pre-packaged with an abuse of power scandal (not really what anyone coming after the Bush-Cheney ticket needs) and comes up a big fucking goose-egg on all of the social policy issues that Clinton represented as a female candidate.

Sure there's going to be a lot of press about it, and why not? But I don't really see how this is likely to be the "end of the election." Seems a very strange choice to me-one calculated to gain immediate attention without taking into account the big picture situation. She may very well be the most electable woman in the Republican community (she might also not be, I have no idea) but she's no replacement for disenfranchised Clinton supporters who don't know what to make of BO.

Also, I don't really think it's an enormous loss to the dems to not have 100% attention on the nomination speeches of last night. They're all puffery and nonsense, and they know that. The people who care(d) were all paying attention and got swept up in the message. You don't get swing votes with nomination speeches or coverage.

dc_dux

I think many Independents will have serious doubts about such an inexperienced person being a heart beat away from the presidency when the country is facing so many complex national and international issues.....asking themselves in such a scenario, who do I want to be a heart beat away - Biden or Palin?

Bottom line though is VP nominations rarely, if ever, swing or have much significant impact on an election.

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Poppinjay

I think everybody knew he would announce this morning. Typical politics. People don't vote for convention speeches. Undecideds make up their minds during debates.

Other than the fact she's a she, I don't see at all how this helps McCain. If she were a man, GOP party leaders would be burning McCain at the stake right now. There's enough about her to campaign against that she'd never be a good candidate on her own.

Conservative Christian? That's not America. One year governor? of Alaska? The average conservative Christian doesn't even know Alaska is a state. Mother of 5? When does she have time to be governor? Who raises her kids? Especially one with Down's Syndrome.

And that's a whole other kettle. Why go through fertility treatments when you already have four kids and are well beyond the age of high risk pregnancy? What kind of judgement is that?

I think McCain just stepped in a polar bear trap.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

ottopilot

Amazing... talking points have been issued!

__________________
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pan6467

And you are an extremely objective observer..... right DC????

Is she a perfect pick? No. But it shifts the momentum from Obama.

You want to talk about scandals, abuses of power? Look in Biden's closet. Don't think you really want to go there.

I find it funny, people here are talking about experience but support Obama who's own VP choice said he was inexperienced. LOL.

You have an inexperienced man, who believes his own press and believes he is the second coming, running for president and a rich old white guy who has quite a few scandals and couldn't get a vote in the primaries, running against a rich old white man with much experience and a woman that is strong in her beliefs and has charisma.

There you have it.

You say the GOP has an rich old white guy running..... well who do you have for a VP choice?

I will absolutely vote for a GOP presidential candidate for the first time in my life...... unless, unless Hillary runs. Then..... then I will vote for Hillary.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

dc_dux

As opposed to buzz words like marxist, messiah, cult following?
-----Added 29/8/2008 at 11 : 24 : 08-----
Nope...I never claimed to be.

But I can step out of the box to make objective judgments. It doesnt take much to make an assessment that her standing on core social issues that are of utmost importance to Clinton women supporters are further right than McCain.

__________________
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ottopilot

"This just in... Obama's plane just left Denver... and now back to the news"

__________________
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