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-   -   Who will be McCain's Vice President? (https://thetfp.com/tfp/tilted-politics/139427-who-will-mccains-vice-president.html)

Seaver 08-29-2008 08:17 PM
Not changing the way I'm voting... but then again neither did the Obama pick.

However... I'd hit that in a heartbeat.

Charlatan 08-29-2008 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaver (Post 2515525)

However... I'd hit that in a heartbeat.
You have a thing for Soccer Mom's?

Willravel 08-30-2008 10:35 AM
If my teenage daughter ever became pregnant, I would show her the love and support she deserved instead of teaching her to be ashamed and lie about it.

This photo was taken 6 weeks before the birth of baby Trig:
All abuzz about Palin: Alaska News | adn.com

Edit: Governor Sarah Polin's teenage daughter became pregnant, but instead of supporting her and teaching her there is no shame in the miracle of birth, she asked her to keep it a secret. Governor Polin lied about being pregnant and will raise her grandson as her own son in order to try and save her political career.

Unfortunately, it was only a matter of time before this came out. I sincerely hope that her daughter is left alone by the press.

ratbastid 08-30-2008 11:04 AM
Let's stop pretending your opinion or mine is the "right one" about who's inexperienced and who's not, and let's listen to the expert opinion of presidential historians and scholars.

Scholars question Palin credentials

Quote:
John McCain was aiming to make history with his pick of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, and historians say he succeeded.

Presidential scholars say she appears to be the least experienced, least credentialed person to join a major-party ticket in the modern era.

So unconventional was McCain’s choice that it left students of the presidency literally “stunned,” in the words of Joel Goldstein, a St. Louis University law professor and scholar of the vice presidency. “Being governor of a small state for less than two years is not consistent with the normal criteria for determining who’s of presidential caliber,” said Goldstein.

“I think she is the most inexperienced person on a major party ticket in modern history,” said presidential historian Matthew Dallek.
(Lots more behind the link above. And not partisan raving--the actual opinion and analysis of actual real historians.)

telekinetic 08-30-2008 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaver (Post 2515525)
Not changing the way I'm voting... but then again neither did the Obama pick.

However... I'd hit that in a heartbeat.
Any takers for a VPILF shirt? Now that we have tilted marketplace, I was thinking about making a run of them... :)

Tully Mars 08-30-2008 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willravel (Post 2515704)
If my teenage daughter ever became pregnant, I would show her the love and support she deserved instead of teaching her to be ashamed and lie about it.

This photo was taken 6 weeks before the birth of baby Trig:
All abuzz about Palin: Alaska News | adn.com

Edit: Governor Sarah Polin's teenage daughter became pregnant, but instead of supporting her and teaching her there is no shame in the miracle of birth, she asked her to keep it a secret. Governor Polin lied about being pregnant and will raise her grandson as her own son in order to try and save her political career.

Unfortunately, it was only a matter of time before this came out. I sincerely hope that her daughter is left alone by the press.
Is this a known fact or a mere rumor? Seems like the McCain camp would have vetted well and found this is it were fact and not fiction. Not like this would play well at all with the core base she's been brought on to help win.

Of course what's fact any m ore is highly debatable. CNN was running the part of her speech from her announcement this morning where she states she was against the bridge to no where. They never mentioned she previously publicly supported it.

Willravel 08-30-2008 11:26 AM
The McCain camp was surprised by his decision and only had a matter of days to vet. They got the thing about her ex, but missed the biggy.

Tully Mars 08-30-2008 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willravel (Post 2515727)
The McCain camp was surprised by his decision and only had a matter of days to vet. They got the thing about her ex, but missed the biggy.
Her ex?

I heard something about her brother-in-law and some firing scandal. Haven't heard about the Ex yet.

Been reading about her ideas regarding energy policy. If you loved the way things have gone under Chenny you'll really like her.

Willravel 08-30-2008 11:39 AM
She tried to get her ex-husband fired. It's not the only time she's used her position to try and settle personal scores.

Tully Mars 08-30-2008 11:51 AM
Hmm, even the Daily Kos is claiming the pregnancy rumors are unfounded:


Quote:
[EDIT] Removed references to the pregnancy rumors of Gov. Palin's daughter. Appear to be unfounded.
Daily Kos: State of the Nation

Willravel 08-30-2008 11:55 AM
http://media.adn.com/smedia/2008/03/...ffiliate.7.jpg
This photograph seems pretty conclusive. 6 weeks before the baby was born.

Tully Mars 08-30-2008 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willravel (Post 2515737)
http://media.adn.com/smedia/2008/03/09/01/687-3504039.standalone.prod_affiliate.7.jpg
This photograph seems pretty conclusive. 6 weeks before the baby was born.
I disagree. I think with the vest it's impossible to tell which person looks more pregnant. Palin looks like a naturally slender lady. I've seen countless photos of celeb's that didn't look very pregnant only to read the caption and find they're 8mos along.

I just don't think that photo's enough evidence to say one way or the other.

Don't get me wrong, no way I'm voting for her or McCain. But I don't think that photo proves anything.

highthief 08-30-2008 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willravel (Post 2515737)
http://media.adn.com/smedia/2008/03/09/01/687-3504039.standalone.prod_affiliate.7.jpg
This photograph seems pretty conclusive. 6 weeks before the baby was born.
I don't know much about US politics or the VPILF candidate in general, but if you think the daughter looks 7 months pregnant there, I'd suggest you're wrong.

The girl is wearing a tight top, has a womb, as most women do, but surely doesn't look 7 months pregnant. Meanwhile, the VPILF is wearing a loose top and is hiding her stomach.

The kid also apparently has Down syndrome? Much more common amongst older mothers.

If you were contemplating hiding your kid's pregnancy, can't see that you'd line up for a family photograph unless she was wearing a full burqa.

Not saying what you suggest is not possible, but if that's all the evidence, it's preciously thin.

ASU2003 08-30-2008 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willravel (Post 2515730)
She tried to get her ex-husband fired. It's not the only time she's used her position to try and settle personal scores.
I think it is her sister's ex-husband. And I think what has been said is that he said he wanted to kill their father. It's not a good idea to have a police officer that is threating people.

host 08-30-2008 02:37 PM
Seems like a great sense of judgment.....involve her sixteen year old (2005) son in her sister's domestic war, and conduct her own questionable surveillance, too:
Quote:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/100/story/45694.html

....Palin was interviewed by troopers too.

"Mike in the conversation never did get to the bottom of what, what the foundational issue he was dealing with, he just kept screaming, "I'm gonna F'n kill your dad if he gets an attorney to help you," Palin told troopers, according to the transcript.

Track told troopers he heard the comment, too.

Palin drove over and watched through the window. She and McCann both said Wooten was all wound up. A neighbor who stood watch as well later told troopers that Wooten looked angry but that McCann wasn't cowering or anything.

Wooten told troopers he never said anything like that about his father-in-law.

The investigation concluded he did. It wasn't a crime, because he didn't threaten Heath directly. But it did violate trooper policy, the investigation found....


Mods...2nd pic is of same folks in upper pic, upper pic links here:

http://gov.state.ak.us/photos/pict0210.jpg


Daughter Bristol , in photo allegedly from Feb., 2008, seems to have suddenly enlarged breasts.... and most photos available yesterday at the AK gov's site....like the top one in this post....are inaccessible now.

Just sayin'.....I don't have a horse in this race....imo, both major candidates and their VP picks are of the same. right wing "property party"....hideous, disappointing choices intended to represent "change", but for the purpose of insuring that there will be almost no change in Amerika.

Tully Mars 08-30-2008 03:15 PM
Wow! A teenage girl's breast get larger, can't think of anyway that could happen other then her being pregnant.

Seriously none of these women look very pregnant to me. Maybe that'll be the next rumor- the family secretly kidnapped a down syndrome baby.

Rekna 08-30-2008 03:37 PM
Right now these are just rumors and should be treated as such. However, if Palin would like to quiet the rumors there is a very easy way. She would just need to take a paternity test and make the results available. That would be the quickest way to nip this in the butt before the rumor mill gets started.

dc_dux 08-30-2008 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekna (Post 2515803)
Right now these are just rumors and should be treated as such. However, if Palin would like to quiet the rumors there is a very easy way. She would just need to take a paternity test and make the results available. That would be the quickest way to nip this in the butt before the rumor mill gets started.
IMO, there is no excuse for this kind of rumor mongering....just as there is no excuse for the rumor mongering about Obama being a secret muslim or having a forged birth certificate, etc.

Both sides should say STOP!

host 08-30-2008 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_dux (Post 2515807)
IMO, there is no excuse for this kind of rumor mongering....just as there is no excuse for the rumor mongering about Obama being a secret muslim or having a forged birth certificate, etc.

Both sides should say STOP!
hey _dux! Palin is repulsive in her "mission" to set women's reproductive rights in the US back fifty years. I consider her a radical fringe political operative of a fascist ilk. I think she was appointed as chum in the water in the process of McCain's fishing for the votes of people who identify with Palin's 19th century POV..... they are either so ignorant in their misguided zealotry...or worse....they don't give a shit that the results of their influence falls hardest where it always does....on the least of us....the ones who the courts were intended to protect from the majority and those with outsized power and influence..... 87 percent of US counties have no abortion services...and these monsters never let up for a minute on the poor, rural, resource impaired, while the wealthy are never deterred or even affected.

Fuck the McCain campaign.... I have as much compassion for them as they plan for the least of us in our country.

Quote:
washingtonpost.com

...Serrin M. Foster, president of Feminists for Life, a nonpartisan group to which Palin has belonged since 2006, said the governor's sudden political ascent demonstrates how women are making gains, regardless of their ideology. "The early feminists worked for the rights of women to vote and our right to life," Foster said yesterday. "This is one more step in a long march for women's history." ...
At the top of the "non-partisan" Feminists for Life - Women Deserve Better is:
FFL Member Nominated for Vice President of the United States - Feminists for Life of America
FFL Member Sarah Palin Nominated for Vice President of the United States

From page 16 of the newsletter:
Quote:
http://www.feministsforlife.org/taf/...inter97-98.pdf

“birth control counselling and abortion often indirectly contribute to the victim’s sense of shame, guilt, and blame for what is happening, since she is told to “take control” and “be responsible” for her “sexual activity,” implying that this situation is indeed within her power to control.”
Quote:
Feminists for (Fetal) Life
Feminists for (Fetal) Life
subject to debate
By Katha Pollitt

August 11, 2005

....I got similarly evasive answers when I asked why FFL didn't promote birth control, and when I asked if FFL considered the pill an "abortifacient." She did tell me that "birth control doesn't work" for swing-shift nurses because they lose track of their body clock--interesting, if true--or for teenagers, which I know to be false. "We just want to focus on meeting the everyday needs of women," she told me. But when I asked how the everyday needs of women with unwanted pregnancies would be served by encouraging them to bear children and place them for adoption, Foster didn't answer. Instead, she extolled the benefits of open adoption. ....
Quote:
What ‘Feminists For Life’ Hide

“The new pro-choice/pro-life battle is over the right of Americans to use birth control and Feminists for Life has clearly taken its side. By not supporting contraception, Feminists for Life backs an agenda that has failed everywhere it is been tried.”
Quote:
Feminists for Life of America

Leaving abortion aside for just a moment, even most forms of contraception invade the woman's body, not the man's--and in more cases than we want to admit, scar and irrevocably damage those bodies. (Even condoms, the one "male" form of contraception, usually end up being the woman's responsibility--survey after survey shows that it is invariably women, not men, who are responsible for purchasing condoms.)

Feminists for Life of America - Pro Woman Pro Life

FFL is concerned that certain forms of contraception have had adverse health effects on women.
Quote:
Article | The American Prospect

When Feminists for Life has chosen to address the issue of contraception, it has invariably been to point out the health hazards posed in particular forms of birth control.

The battle to ban birth control | Salon Life

there is evidence to suggest that even the mainstream anti-choice groups are ready to make the battle against contraception part of their agendas. Many of the National Right to Life Committee state affiliates have opposed legislation that would provide insurance coverage for contraception. Iowa Right to Life even lists a host of birth control methods -- including the pill, the IUD, Norplant and Depo-Provera -- as abortifacients. [Editorian note: "Feminists for life" use the same term, "abortifacients" --cishart]

You Don't Know Feminists for Life | Columbia Spectator
.... What Serrin Foster will not be advertising during her campus visit is that Feminists for Life is opposed to contraception. On this point, her organization and the rest of the pro-life movement is unified: most pro-life groups in the United States are anti-contraception.

Today, pro-life groups are reclassifying the most common contraception methods, including the birth control pill, the patch, the intrauterine device, and Depo Provera, as "abortifacients," claiming, with no scientific backing, that they cause abortions. On its Web site, Feminists for Life lists emergency contraception as an abortion method. If this were true, Feminists for Life must also consider 40 percent of all birth control methods as abortion methods too because they have the same mode of action as emergency contraception....
Quote:
Ideology Should Not Play a Role in Reproductive Rights | Reproductive Justice and Gender | AlterNet
Ideology Should Not Play a Role in Reproductive Rights

By Cynthia L. Cooper, Women's eNews. Posted August 13, 2008.

A political shift to the right has imperiled reproductive rights in many states.

...Abstinence Class in 27 States

Georgia is among 27 states that continue to use abstinence-only programs, for which the federal government allocated $176 million in fiscal 2008, despite a congressionally mandated scientific review that found them ineffective in delaying sex. Georgia does permit its more than 180 school boards to choose "abstinence-plus" education, which may describe contraception......

...Publicly funded family planning clinics in Georgia provide contraceptive care to 200,000 women, including 56,000 teens, according to the Guttmacher Institute, a research organization in New York. But that helps less than half of the 490,000 women who need the services, Guttmacher estimates.

In its most recent analysis, the Guttmacher Institute found that 92 percent of Georgia counties had no abortion provider in 2005, compared to none in 87 percent of all counties in the United States. Nearby Mississippi has only one abortion clinic.

In 1999 Georgia adopted one of the earliest and best laws on equitable insurance coverage for contraceptive drugs and devices. Twenty-six other states now have similar contraceptive equity laws.

D-Grades for Reproductive Rights

But as of January 2008, the Washington-based abortion rights lobby NARAL Pro-Choice America marked Georgia with "D" on its state report card. The nation as a whole earned a D-minus.

"What's really changed in the past 10 years is the political landscape," said Nancy Boothe, executive director of the Atlanta Feminist Women's Health Center.

Since 2000 the state's political leadership has shifted to the right. The governor, lieutenant governor and speaker of the house are all Republicans endorsed by Georgia Right to Life. Majorities in both houses of the state legislature are anti-choice, as are both Republican U.S. senators, Saxby Chambliss and Johnny Isakson......

highthief 08-30-2008 04:35 PM
Democratic swift-boating, maybe?

Seaver 08-30-2008 04:46 PM
Quote:
Wow! A teenage girl's breast get larger, can't think of anyway that could happen other then her being pregnant.
Quoted for truth.

A girl has a pudge and enlarging breasts.... and this is news?

Apparently you've never seen a girl who is 7 months pregnant.

http://photos.ivillage.com/images/ph...04_695392D.jpg

Does not equal

http://tizona.files.wordpress.com/20...h_palin_02.jpg

host 08-30-2008 04:50 PM
Palin, on March 14, five weeks before delivery:
Daughter from another angle:

http://www.valdezlink.com/re/media/palins.gif

Lots of sudden routine growth....compared to shot that Seaver reposted.....or?

Quote:
Originally Posted by highthief (Post 2515816)
Democratic swift-boating, maybe?
Not even close ....this started four months ago as an almost immediate reaction to the way Palin appeared, combined with the way she conducted herself and communicated:

Note the date:

Quote:
Cover-up? Alaska Gov. Palin (R) announced she was pregnant. Local rumors suggest she is covering up for her 16 y/o daughter. : reddit.com

Cover-up? Alaska Gov. Palin (R) announced she was pregnant. Local rumors suggest she is covering up for her 16 y/o daughter. (self.politics)

submitted 4 months ago by jibegod to politics

ratbastid 08-30-2008 05:01 PM
There are SO many SO much more significant objections to this woman than this ridiculous baby-swap nonsense.

dc_dux 08-30-2008 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by host (Post 2515815)
hey _dux! Palin is repulsive in her "mission" to set women's reproductive rights in the US back fifty years. I consider her a radical fringe political operative of a fascist ilk. I think she was appointed as chum in the water in the process of McCain's fishing for the votes of people who identify with Palin's 19th century POV..... they are either so ignorant in their misguided zealotry...or worse....they don't give a shit that the results of their influence falls hardest where it always does....on the least of us....the ones who the courts were intended to protect from the majority and those with outsized power and influence..... 87 percent of US counties have no abortion services...and these monsters never let up for a minute on the poor, rural, resource impaired, while the wealthy are never deterred or even affected.

At the top of the "non-partisan" Feminists for Life - Women Deserve Better is:
FFL Member Nominated for Vice President of the United States - Feminists for Life of America
FFL Member Sarah Palin Nominated for Vice President of the United States
host...I agree with all of this, including "attacking" her on her membership in the FFL and her extremists positions on women's rights.

She should be "attacked" on her supposed earmark reform credentials. She supported the federal pork funding for the "bridge to nowhere" when campaigning and only ended the project when Congress refused to provide additional funding.

She should be "attacked" on her alleged abuse of power by firing the Police Commissioner who refused to fire her former brother-in-law in a bitter divorce dispute with her sister.

These are policy issues or issues of professional integrity...neither one is rumor mongering .

There is nothing to be gained by resorting to gutter politics like questioning the birth of her last child.
-----Added 30/8/2008 at 09 : 31 : 03-----
added:
It is also fair to question her readiness for the job when the two top state Republican elected officials have questions:
Quote:
State Senate President Lyda Green said she thought it was a joke when someone called her at 6 a.m. to give her the news.

“She’s not prepared to be governor. How can she be prepared to be vice president or president?” said Green, a Republican from Palin’s hometown of Wasilla. “Look at what she’s done to this state. What would she do to the nation?”

***

State House Speaker John Harris, a Republican from Valdez, was astonished at the news. He didn’t want to get into the issue of her qualifications.

“She’s old enough,” Harris said. “She’s a U.S. citizen.”
One guy who is probably smiling somewhere is Dan Quayle. He is no longer the VP nominee considered by the American voters to be the least qualified person of any nominee of either party in recent campaigns.

The_Jazz 08-30-2008 05:33 PM
You all know that pictures of kids aren't allowed here. Regardless of how "newsworthy" you think they are, they have no place here. Links are fine but pictures aren't.

I'm removing the pictures in question now. Please do not insert pictures of kids again.

Tully Mars 08-30-2008 05:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaver (Post 2515821)
Quoted for truth.

A girl has a pudge and enlarging breasts.... and this is news?

Apparently you've never seen a girl who is 7 months pregnant.

http://photos.ivillage.com/images/ph...04_695392D.jpg

Does not equal

http://tizona.files.wordpress.com/20...h_palin_02.jpg
Yes, but a lot of women seven months along don't look like this. I don't think mom looks that large either. But I DON"T CARE. Mom could have had the kid, the daughter could have had it, doesn't mean a thing to me. Sounds like a family issue. Seems like a silly topic.

My interest in her is solely in her ideology and policy positions. Most of which I completely disagree with it. In fact in all my reading today I haven't found one issue I agree with her on. From energy to womens rights to education I disagree with her, completely.
-----Added 30/8/2008 at 09 : 52 : 45-----
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_dux (Post 2515830)
host...I agree with all of this, including "attacking" her on her membership in the FFL and her extremists positions on women's rights.

She should be "attacked" on her supposed earmark reform credentials. She supported the federal pork funding for the "bridge to nowhere" when campaigning and only ended the project when Congress refused to provide additional funding.

She should be "attacked" on her alleged abuse of power by firing the Police Commissioner who refused to fire her former brother-in-law in a bitter divorce dispute with her sister.

These are policy issues or issues of professional integrity...neither one is rumor mongering .

There is nothing to be gained by resorting to gutter politics like questioning the birth of her last child.
-----Added 30/8/2008 at 09 : 31 : 03-----
added:
It is also fair to question her readiness for the job when the two top state Republican elected officials have questions:

One guy who is probably smiling somewhere is Dan Quayle. He is no longer the VP nominee considered by the American voters to be the least qualified person of any nominee of either party in recent campaigns.
Yep.

ASU2003 08-30-2008 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willravel (Post 2515704)
If my teenage daughter ever became pregnant, I would show her the love and support she deserved instead of teaching her to be ashamed and lie about it.

This photo was taken 6 weeks before the birth of baby Trig:
All abuzz about Palin: Alaska News | adn.com

Edit: Governor Sarah Polin's teenage daughter became pregnant, but instead of supporting her and teaching her there is no shame in the miracle of birth, she asked her to keep it a secret. Governor Polin lied about being pregnant and will raise her grandson as her own son in order to try and save her political career.

Unfortunately, it was only a matter of time before this came out. I sincerely hope that her daughter is left alone by the press.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3024/...ca8e9d0c_o.jpg

Take a look at my picture. Who is holding the baby? I'm going to sell it to the tabloids now.

I would hope if Sarah Palin wanted to cover it up, she would have at least gotten a pregnancy pillow to wear under her clothes for a few months.

I doubt this is true though, and I don't care either way.

Willravel 08-30-2008 06:01 PM
FYI, the child was said to have been born prematurely, but I'll let that topic rest for now.

She's used her position to exact personal vendettas, even her own party has admitted that she has basically no experience, choosing her is clearly a cynical attempt to get Hillary supporters, she's sold out to oil companies, she flip-flopped on the "bridge to nowhere", she has used illegal mailers in her gubernatorial campaign, she is against mine safety, she left her town's economy in shambles, she supports Obama's energy plan (not that I mind, but Republicans may not like that), she didn't support McCain in the primaries (same), and she's against birth control.

Seriously, they're trying to lose.

jorgelito 08-30-2008 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_dux (Post 2515807)
IMO, there is no excuse for this kind of rumor mongering....just as there is no excuse for the rumor mongering about Obama being a secret muslim or having a forged birth certificate, etc.

Both sides should say STOP!
I agree wholeheartedly with your post. Count me in for "STOP"!

Derwood 08-30-2008 06:49 PM
Palin has lowest voter confidence (for a VP) since Dan Quayle:

Poll: Confidence in Palin low - UPI.com

Tully Mars 08-30-2008 07:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jorgelito (Post 2515861)
I agree wholeheartedly with your post. Count me in for "STOP"!
Yep

pan6467 08-30-2008 09:22 PM
Wow..... and we wonder why we get the likes of Bushes, Clintons, Kerrys, Obamas, McCains, as nominees/presidents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willravel (Post 2515704)
If my teenage daughter ever became pregnant, I would show her the love and support she deserved instead of teaching her to be ashamed and lie about it.

This photo was taken 6 weeks before the birth of baby Trig:
All abuzz about Palin: Alaska News | adn.com

Edit: Governor Sarah Polin's teenage daughter became pregnant, but instead of supporting her and teaching her there is no shame in the miracle of birth, she asked her to keep it a secret. Governor Polin lied about being pregnant and will raise her grandson as her own son in order to try and save her political career.

Unfortunately, it was only a matter of time before this came out. I sincerely hope that her daughter is left alone by the press.
I truly had a tremendous amount of respect and admiration for you Will until you did this..... I never expected you to stoop this low.

Jesus fucking Christ people, NOONE IN THIS FUCKING WORLD IS PERFECT. We all have skeletons and dirt. Do you want yours out?

If her daughter had the baby, who cares, but this day and age where ANYTHING can be photoshopped and distorted to make something innocent look like dirt so another party can win on scandal is pathetic.

It is one thing to judge a person by who they call their "Spiritual Leader" and the associates/friends they keep company with..... but to bring family into it crosses the line.

Doesn't anyone here think that if Gov. Palin did not have the baby and that her daughter did, people would have already known? Hell, sounds like she has made some political enemies that are mighty powerful in Alaska, I'm sure one of them would have already jumped all over that shit.

And for those salivating, believing this will hurt her....... it may have a reverse effect and have people feeling sorry for her for such a grotesque attack on a mother of a Down's syndrome baby.

So be careful what trash you choose to want to use against the other side..... it may backfire in ways that you may not recover from.

Willravel 08-30-2008 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pan6467 (Post 2515902)
It is one thing to judge a person by who they call their "Spiritual Leader" and the associates/friends they keep company with..... but to bring family into it crosses the line.
Actually it's exactly the same thing, which is part of why I posted it. As soon as it popped up on the Daily Kos, I figured that this was going to be Palin's "secret Muslim" or "reverend wright". It's an exaggeration of something that has absolutely nothing at all to do with the person's ability to lead or perform in their role. If this is true (I really couldn't say if it is or isn't; there's some evidence but it's not conclusive) does that mean that she can't be VP? Of course not. I mean there's a laundry list of things that demonstrate that, but the hypothetical secret baby isn't one of them. It's personal, and it doesn't have any bearing on policy or ability to perform, just like the Wright thing.

Why don't I support her? When she ended her term as mayor, her town's economy was in shambles. She vocally opposes birth control, even among married couples. She is a creationist who believes that the bible should be in science classes. In an interview, she said that she doesn't know what a vice president does. There are plenty of perfectly rational reasons for me not to support her and that would be important if she were vice president.

Seaver 08-30-2008 10:15 PM
Quote:
As soon as it popped up on the Daily Kos, I figured that this was going to be Palin's "secret Muslim" or "reverend wright".
"Secret Muslim", yes. The lies spewed for political gains are a correct analogy.. "Reverend Wright" no... what was said concerning him and Obama's friendship with him are true.

Quote:
In an interview, she said that she doesn't know what a vice president does.
Humor did not cross your mind?

dc_dux 08-30-2008 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaver (Post 2515914)
"Secret Muslim", yes. The lies spewed for political gains are a correct analogy.. "Reverend Wright" no... what was said concerning him and Obama's friendship with him are true.
Seaver...true that Obama has dual loyalties or greater loyalty to Africa than to the US because of ONE small (and misunderstood) Afro-centric tenant in the church's mission? True that Obama is a racist because some are incapable of understanding the context of remarks made by his pastor? Both charges made by right wing media and blogs and regurgitated here in TFP (by one member in particular).

Bullshit!

Those who dont see the comparisons with the smears about Obama because of his membership in a church and his relationship with the pastor are devoid of any objectivity.

Willravel 08-30-2008 10:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaver (Post 2515914)
"Secret Muslim", yes. The lies spewed for political gains are a correct analogy.. "Reverend Wright" no... what was said concerning him and Obama's friendship with him are true.
They're equally irrelevant. Even if he was a Muslim, it has exactly zero bearing on what kind of president he will be.

I mean think about it this way, my dad's a pastor and I'm an atheist. At one point in my life, I was attending church every Sunday. Do you think that means I will forever agree with everything said on that pulpit?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaver (Post 2515914)
Humor did not cross your mind?
Oh, you haven't seen it. You're in for a treat:

Frosstbyte 08-30-2008 11:19 PM
Everything about that video terrifies me. Her, the interviewer, the answer, his response. Totally terrifying.

There is no humor in that response, and the full scope of what she says makes me sure that she is the absolute wrong person to be in that position.

I think I should send this to my mom to help explain to her why I'm feeling disenfranchised and disillusioned by American politics. Maybe it will help her understand.

flstf 08-31-2008 12:02 AM
I have a hard time believing that the McCain people would knowingly let her lie about the baby. Even if they made a hasty last minute decision to pick her for VP they must have known that the rumor about the baby being her daughter's was going on in Alaska for some time.

I'm curious, it is odd that she wants to teach creationism in school. Wasn't her father a science teacher?

Frosstbyte 08-31-2008 12:14 AM
Even if he did, as will said a few posts ago, what your parents do or think often hasn't the least bit to do with what you do or think.

Tully Mars 08-31-2008 04:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flstf (Post 2515937)
I have a hard time believing that the McCain people would knowingly let her lie about the baby. Even if they made a hasty last minute decision to pick her for VP they must have known that the rumor about the baby being her daughter's was going on in Alaska for some time.

I'm curious, it is odd that she wants to teach creationism in school. Wasn't her father a science teacher?
Hey I remember being in class back in the early 70's and we had a science teacher go point by point through the science book. This is how a tree grows, this is why the sky is blue, swells in the ocean becomes waves at the beach because of this etc... When it came to evolution and geography he didn't even have us read the chapters. He skimmed over what they said and stated these are just the latest "theories." I think the "Good News Club" teachers are probably able to give you more accurate information on these subjects. The "Good News Club" was one afternoon a week and nearly every student, including myself, would walk across the street to the church to learn the good news.

I went to a three room school east of Salem Or. The only kids I remember not attending the "Good News Club" were several kids whose families were Jehovah Witnesses. So basically one afternoon a week the school emptied and all the students attended church. Where, of course, we were told the earth was 6K old and created by God in six days etc...

I think her father and her could easily hold the same beliefs on creationism. The fact he's a former science teacher might not mean anything in this case.

ratbastid 08-31-2008 06:16 AM
Just so everybody knows, here's what downtown Wasilla, Alaska looks like:

http://mudflats.files.wordpress.com/...pg?w=509&h=382

Evidently there's a small strip mall behind the bar there, and... that's about it.

geothermal 08-31-2008 07:25 AM
McCain's choice was pretty wise, even though he has only met the woman twice in his life I guess.... I mean if you have seen the movie Idiocracy, you will realize the average IQ of the USA is falling and falling over the decades and Palin and Wasilla, Alaska represent that trend downward spiral. Hopefully Obama wins to undo all that Bush messed up.

Tully Mars 08-31-2008 07:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by geothermal (Post 2516022)
McCain's choice was pretty wise, even though he has only met the woman twice in his life I guess.... I mean if you have seen the movie Idiocracy, you will realize the average IQ of the USA is falling and falling over the decades and Palin and Wasilla, Alaska represent that trend downward spiral. Hopefully Obama wins to undo all that Bush messed up.
Whom ever gets elected is not going to be able to undo the Bush nightmare, IMHO. It's going to take 20-30 years to undo the crap hole Bush and Co. has dug for the US.

GonadWarrior 08-31-2008 07:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekna (Post 2515354)
Also don't forget Palin has very close ties to Stevens and her reputation could be damaged by Steven's sins.
Did Stevens say "God damn America?" Or bomb any buildings?

Tully Mars 08-31-2008 07:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbastid (Post 2516003)
Just so everybody knows, here's what downtown Wasilla, Alaska looks like:

http://mudflats.files.wordpress.com/...pg?w=509&h=382

Evidently there's a small strip mall behind the bar there, and... that's about it.
Hey, they have PAWS. Or the Wasilla airport.

AirNav: PAWS - Wasilla Airport


http://img.airnav.com/ap/04502
-----Added 31/8/2008 at 11 : 46 : 48-----
Quote:
Originally Posted by GonadWarrior (Post 2516029)
Did Stevens say "God damn America?" Or bomb any buildings?
No Stevens isn't the GOP's Rev. Wright. That slot belongs to folks like John Hagee et el.

Finding religious leaders who say crazy things is a little like shooting fish in a barrel.

flstf 08-31-2008 07:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GonadWarrior (Post 2516029)
Did Stevens say "God damn America?" Or bomb any buildings?
I don't think so, I suspect he didn't have any complaints with the way our country works until recently.

GonadWarrior 08-31-2008 08:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbastid (Post 2516003)
Just so everybody knows, here's what downtown Wasilla, Alaska looks like:

http://mudflats.files.wordpress.com/...pg?w=509&h=382

Evidently there's a small strip mall behind the bar there, and... that's about it.
http://bp2.blogger.com/_LnLtk3_0E1Q/...ide-before.jpg

This is the city where Obama was an "organizer." The caption says "America's largest ghetto, Chicago's South Side."

Now that we've traded "gotchas," the question arises as to why the Obama faction resents Palin's selection so much. Republicans were happy that Obama selected an asshole like Bidet. If Palin is such a poor choice, shouldn't her opponents be overjoyed?

The biggest epicenter of outrage MUST be the Clinton residence. If Obama gets elected, Hillary will not be the candidate in 2012. If McCain is elected, for one reason or another, he is very likely to be a one-term president. In all likelihood, Palin would then run, essentially as the incumbent. Hillary's biggest selling point, her gender, would be negated.

I'd love to own the drywall company or lamp store nearest the Clinton residence about now.

dc_dux 08-31-2008 08:50 AM
The McCain's on the Sunday morning talk show circuit today:
Quote:
WALLACE: You’re not suggesting he (Bush) did want to torture prisoners.

McCAIN: Well, waterboarding to me is torture, OK? And waterboarding was advocated by the administration and, according to published reports, was used. But the point is, we’ve had our disagreements.
McCain seems to forget that he voted against a bill that would have banned the CIA from using waterboarding. In fact, when the bill passed w/o his vote, McCain urged Bush to veto it, which he did.
****

STEPHANOPOULOS: But she(Palin) has no national security experience.

Cyndy McCAIN: You know, the experience that she comes from is what she’s done in government, and remember, Alaska is the closest part of our continent to Russia. It’s not as if she doesn’t understand what’s at stake here.
WTF....who scripted that for her or was that her own wise conclusion
Does these people ever listen to themselves?

forseti-6 08-31-2008 08:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GonadWarrior (Post 2516036)
http://bp2.blogger.com/_LnLtk3_0E1Q/...ide-before.jpg

This is the city where Obama was an "organizer." The caption says "America's largest ghetto, Chicago's South Side."

Now that we've traded "gotchas," the question arises as to why the Obama faction resents Palin's selection so much. Republicans were happy that Obama selected an asshole like Bidet. If Palin is such a poor choice, shouldn't her opponents be overjoyed?

The biggest epicenter of outrage MUST be the Clinton residence. If Obama gets elected, Hillary will not be the candidate in 2012. If McCain is elected, for one reason or another, he is very likely to be a one-term president. In all likelihood, Palin would then run, essentially as the incumbent. Hillary's biggest selling point, her gender, would be negated.

I'd love to own the drywall company or lamp store nearest the Clinton residence about now.
You know you make a great point here. I did notice a lot of Republican pundits were overjoyed when Obama picked Biden as his VP. They all said how Biden brought a great wealth of knowledge to Obama's side, but in the past he has said many things that can and will come back to bite him in his ass. I don't think anyone can doubt how immense and ego he has, and I guess everyone is hoping for him to have more of his infamous slips of the tongue.

The first thing I noticed after Palin was announced was CNN reporting the Obama camp reporting on "how poor a choice Palin was." Is it perhaps they feel that more Clinton supporters will erode to McCain or the fact that they're afraid what a great strategy that pick was?

I was reading an opinion piece on CNN and someone mentioned a good points about Palin. They said when she would debate Biden, Biden can be portrayed as a bully beating on a mother of five if he conducts his debates as he's known for. Is this fair? No, but it's going to happen.

filtherton 08-31-2008 08:57 AM
My state is pretty close to Canada, so you know, I know what's at stake with them corrupting our phonetic systems. Paaastaaaaah.

flstf 08-31-2008 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GonadWarrior (Post 2516036)
The biggest epicenter of outrage MUST be the Clinton residence. If Obama gets elected, Hillary will not be the candidate in 2012. If McCain is elected, for one reason or another, he is very likely to be a one-term president. In all likelihood, Palin would then run, essentially as the incumbent. Hillary's biggest selling point, her gender, would be negated.

I'd love to own the drywall company or lamp store nearest the Clinton residence about now.
Yeah, the Hillary (and no one else but Hillary) supporters seem to be happy with this choice since they perceive that it will take away women's votes and help defeat Obama so she can run in 2012. In reality this is a very bad choice for their cause.

Tully Mars 08-31-2008 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_dux (Post 2516044)
The McCain's on the Sunday morning talk show circuit today:

Does these people ever listen to themselves?
I don't understand why they say stuff like this either, but it's obviously the latest GOP talking points. And yes the DNC has it's own stupid talking points. It's as if both parties have come to realize the average US voter votes based on what sound bite they hear last.

Personally I support Obama not because I think he's the answer to all our problems. Several of his ideas I disagree with, I simply disagree with fewer of his ideas then McCain's.

I saw some talking head yesterday explaining why Obama will be so bad for the country. He basically went point by point down the list of things McCain, Bush and the GOP believe will help our economy, our energy situation and our standing in the world. He presented a case that Obama wants to change these policies and that would hurt the country. Well if the GOP's policies will help the country so much how come after eight years of near complete free run the nation is so screwed up?

You can go back and look and the GOP has always talks about smaller government, less spending. Every time they've held power the spending goes up and government gets bigger. Every GOP admin, IMHO, has hit the middle class. Bush II's has just about given it a knock out blow.

I listen and read Palin's positions and ideas and I can't find one I agree with. McCain's voted with Bush roughly 90% of the time. I think the Bush II administration is a complete and total failure. I'm not voting for a guy who's agreed with him 90% of the time.

That's why I support Obama and would have supported any Dem over McCain. I signed up some time ago to donate a monthly amount to Obama. Basically when I moved to Mexico I lost a car payment. Back in April I decided to start sending him that amount. I wonder what they think when they get a monthly donation that ends with $_84.67?

Willravel 08-31-2008 09:55 AM
I live in California, which is by the ocean.

I should see if the GOP is hiring marine biologists.

flstf 08-31-2008 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbastid (Post 2516003)
Just so everybody knows, here's what downtown Wasilla, Alaska looks like:

http://mudflats.files.wordpress.com/...pg?w=509&h=382

Evidently there's a small strip mall behind the bar there, and... that's about it.
I suspect that soon we will be seeing more reruns of Northern Exposure.

http://lancemannion.typepad.com/phot...d/north_ex.jpg

Halx 08-31-2008 11:03 AM
Not that I was going to vote for him, but his choice makes the outlook clearer.

1) He's old and this woman could be president in the snap of a finger. NOT COOL.
2) He nominates a no-name female with no federal political experience, and somehow thinks its going to buy Clinton voters? Like the only issue they voted on was that she was female? NOT COOL.

Based on these two reasons alone, why should anyone even dare to trust the presidency with McCain?

roachboy 08-31-2008 11:25 AM
more generally, i would say that this is a good time to shut off your fucking television, stop relying on the circulation of lint that passes as "politics" on the 24/5 "news" channels, figure out what you think the present state of affairs in and with the united states is, read what the candidates are proposing to do or not do about them and then make an informed choice as to who to vote for.

what passes for politics in the states is painfully idiotic.

and it is a depressing thought that we still have 3 months to go in the context of which discussion about issues and relative merits of candidates will in all probability drowned out by the lint issuing from the televisual fuckwit class.

we don't need to be dominated: we do it to ourselves.

filtherton 08-31-2008 11:34 AM
Speaking of shutting off news channels, twitter is kind of interesting right now. Do a search for RNC on twitter and you can find frequently updated tweets about the awesome things the Minneapolis and St. Paul police department are doing right now to potential protestors.
For instance: Twitter / coldsnaplegal

The great thing is that we (the local taxpayers) are paying them now to do this in the form of salary, and then we will be paying again when they lose all the civil rights abuse cases that will result from these incidents, and then we will continue to pay these folks to continue to "serve and protect" our peace.

I know not all cops are bad, but when the good ones can't be bothered to differentiate themselves from the bad then I have a hard time not writing them all off as scumbags.

jorgelito 08-31-2008 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by filtherton (Post 2516123)
Speaking of shutting off news channels, twitter is kind of interesting right now. Do a search for RNC on twitter and you can find frequently updated tweets about the awesome things the Minneapolis and St. Paul police department are doing right now to potential protestors.
For instance: Twitter / coldsnaplegal

The great thing is that we (the local taxpayers) are paying them now to do this in the form of salary, and then we will be paying again when they lose all the civil rights abuse cases that will result from these incidents, and then we will continue to pay these folks to continue to "serve and protect" our peace.

I know not all cops are bad, but when the good ones can't be bothered to differentiate themselves from the bad then I have a hard time not writing them all off as scumbags.
I don't know if you saw any of the DNC, doesn't seem like any TFPers saw or heard any of it but yeah, this happened at the DNC too. It was pretty crazy. The cops in Denver were pretty heavy handed.

filtherton 08-31-2008 11:56 AM
I know. It's a bit ridiculous. But then again, it seems like giving the average cop an excuse to use force is a bit like giving Paris Hilton an excuse to expose her genitals to photographers.

host 08-31-2008 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tully Mars (Post 2516060)

.....I listen and read Palin's positions and ideas and I can't find one I agree with. McCain's voted with Bush roughly 90% of the time. I think the Bush II administration is a complete and total failure. I'm not voting for a guy who's agreed with him 90% of the time.

That's why I support Obama and would have supported any Dem over McCain. I signed up some time ago to donate a monthly amount to Obama. Basically when I moved to Mexico I lost a car payment. Back in April I decided to start sending him that amount. I wonder what they think when they get a monthly donation that ends with .67?
Quote:
Steve Miller
Living In The U. S. A. lyrics

....But everybody's kickin' sand
Even politicians
We're living in a plastic land ...

Fitzgerald News Conference - New York Times
Oct 28, 2005 ... And what we have when someone charges obstruction of justice, the umpire gets sand thrown in his eyes. He's trying to figure what happened ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/28/po...pagewanted=all

Quote:
Sarah Palin hit by internet rumours over fifth child - Times Online
August 31, 2008
Sarah Palin hit by internet rumours over fifth child

Teams of Democratic operatives and investigative journalists descended on Alaska today to delve into the private and public life of Sarah Palin, the new and little-known Republican vice-presidential nominee, as fresh questions arose over whether she had been properly vetted by the John McCain campaign. ....

....If Mrs Palin, a conservative mother-of-five, ever doubted that landing on a national presidential ticket would open herself to the harshest of spotlights and smear tactics, she also awoke this morning to utterly unfounded internet rumours that her fifth child born in April with Down's Syndrome was actually her 17-year-old daughter's.

When she made her debut speech on Friday, she immediately touted her success in killing off the infamous "Bridge to Nowhere" project that had become a nationwide symbol of wasteful, pork-barrel spending that Mr McCain has made a cornerstone of his campaign.

Yet in the first unsettling revelation that the McCain camp will hope does not become a pattern, the Anchorage Daily News reported that when she ran for governor, Mrs Palin campaigned on a "build the bridge" platform. The newspaper, in a reference to John Kerry's alleged "flip-flopping" in the 2004 presidential campaign, said: "Palin was for the Bridge before she was against it." ....
Sarah Palin Pregnancy Debate
High Def Video of Palin, circa mid feb., 2008.... (move progress bar to mid of video) photographer posts that he had no idea she wad pregnant. She accompanies him on a long walk in drizzle with snow on ground...light coat, and high heeled boots while allegedly six months pregnant....

Tully, I can say with great regret, you have wasted your money on supporting Obama's candidacy. I wrote this open letter (excerpts) to Obama, after he "picked" Biden, last week:
Quote:

I know it's been a long campaign, but I have to ask you, Sen. Obama, how does this recent diary's description of what you did today,

Quote:
Daily Kos: Biden And The Bankruptcy Abomination
Biden And The Bankruptcy Abomination Hotlist
by RedMeatDem
or what you did by supporting the FISA "reform", and telecomm amnesty, square with this?:

Quote:
AFSCME - "I've Been to the Mountaintop" by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

...Secondly, let us keep the issues where they are. The issue is injustice. The issue is the refusal of Memphis to be fair and honest in its dealings with its public servants, who happen to be sanitation workers. Now, we've got to keep attention on that...

.... That's always the problem with a little violence. You know what happened the other day, and the press dealt only with the window-breaking. I read the articles. They very seldom got around to mentioning the fact that one thousand, three hundred sanitation workers were on strike, and that Memphis is not being fair to them, and that Mayor Loeb is in dire need of a doctor. They didn't get around to that.

Now we're going to march again, and we've got to march again, in order to put the issue where it is supposed to be. And force everybody to see that there are thirteen hundred of God's children here suffering, sometimes going hungry, going through dark and dreary nights wondering how this thing is going to come out. That's the issue. And we've got to say to the nation: we know it's coming out. For when people get caught up with that which is right and they are willing to sacrifice for it, there is no stopping point short of victory.... -Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. delivered this speech in support of the striking sanitation workers at Mason Temple in Memphis, TN on April 3, 1968

Above are nearly the last public words that Dr. King was afforded the opportunity to say before death silenced him. Sen. Obama, would you want your legacy to be your endorsement speech of Sen. Joe Biden (D-MBNA), or perhaps your vote for the FISA "reform"/telecomm amnesty bill?

You can read about the Nazi enabling of 1940 republican candidate, Wendell Willkie, and about Richard Nixon, GHW Bush, Nelson Rockefeller, and Ronald Reagan, too. This extreme right wing sympathy from American political leaders has never been denounced, never been repudiated. In fact, right wing authors and have recently written enthusiastically reviewed books extolling the exact opposite of the extreme right alliance with fascism/nazism.....

Trust me, the following links and images document some pretty sordid stuff, done by past presidents and a contender for that office. You certainly haven't gone to such extreme, but you have embraced corporatism, the junior partner of fascism, both with your support of FISA/amnesty, and your decision to pick Sen. Biden as your running mate. Look how far you've moved away from the direction of Dr. King's last mission of his life.

You owe it to all Americans to describe and then repudiate the following, and firmly announce a new commitment to taking the country and it's politics in the opposite direction of it's extreme right, recent history and policy.....or what "change" can you possibly be the candidate for?

highthief 08-31-2008 12:37 PM
Do you Americans vote based on who the VP candidate is? That state of affairs doesn't really exist in many nations - parties are voted for, as are (to a large extent) party leaders. But who the Deputy Prime Minister is matters very little to nations like Canada, the UK, etc. Hell, I'm not sure I know who the Deputy PM is right now.

I know succession works a little differently in the US, but would even if Elvis was the running mate, would it really matter that much?

Willravel 08-31-2008 12:40 PM
I'll never forgive Obama for supporting the FISA bill granting telecom immunity. Same with Pelosi and other party leadership. It just reaffirms my decision not to be a Democrat.

Tully Mars 08-31-2008 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by host (Post 2516137)
Sarah Palin Pregnancy Debate
High Def Video of Palin, circa mid feb., 2008.... (move progress bar to mid of video) photographer posts that he had no idea she wad pregnant. She accompanies him on a long walk in drizzle with snow on ground...light coat, and high heeled boots while allegedly six months pregnant....

Tully, I can say with great regret, you have wasted your money on supporting Obama's candidacy. I wrote this open letter (excerpts) to Obama, after he "picked" Biden, last week:

You spend your money how you want and I'll spend mine the way I prefer, deal?

roachboy 08-31-2008 12:56 PM
tactics over principle in this case, comrades: i'd rather vote nader, but i *know* he cannot win---but mc-cain can win, and that prospect is far more loathsome than any other---so supporting obama in the sense of voting for him is easy. if his only position was that on fisa, i wouldn't--but it isn't. he may be a creepy clintonian centrist in many ways, but he's better than john mc-cain.

host 08-31-2008 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by highthief (Post 2516140)
Do you Americans vote based on who the VP candidate is? That state of affairs doesn't really exist in many nations - parties are voted for, as are (to a large extent) party leaders. But who the Deputy Prime Minister is matters very little to nations like Canada, the UK, etc. Hell, I'm not sure I know who the Deputy PM is right now.

I know succession works a little differently in the US, but would even if Elvis was the running mate, would it really matter that much?
It's a tad more important an issue when the other member of the "team", the party's presidential candidate....is someone elderly....the oldest man, if elected....ever to take the office of the presidency....a man prematurely aged by severe, under attended injury during 5-1/2 years as a POW subjected to physical and psycho torture. In addition, the candidate admits to not being able to raise his arms higher than his chest, and to repeated treatment for melanoma:
Quote:
McCain's Health Is Called Robust By His Doctors - New York Times
......But two experts in the field who reviewed the pathology report released on Friday said it was unclear whether the melanoma on Mr. McCain's temple had metastasized from another, or whether there was one new primary melanoma.

If the spread was through the nearby melanoma, that could suggest a greater risk, said Dr. Lynn M. Schuchter, a melanoma expert at the University of Pennsylvania, and Dr. Mohammed Kashani-Sabet, director of the Melanoma Center at the University of California, San Francisco. .....
....and, last I looked...we're not considering the election of new leadership of just "any" country....it's about a country addicted to 13 million bbls a day of imported petroleum equivalents in an era of unprecedentedly high oil prices....a country with a bankrupt treasury and a wasted currency, struggling with record trade deficit, a still imploding housing valuation and underlying financial crisis, record military expenditures and the most inequitable wealth distribtuion in the community of post industrialized countries, as unemployment and home mortgage foreclosures are in the early stages of a rising trend....all wrapped around a belligerent foreign policy that has alienated oil rich Venezuala, Russia, and Iran....while relations with China begin to erode.

highthief 08-31-2008 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by host (Post 2516149)

....and, last I looked...we're not considering the election of new leadership of just "any" country....it's about a country addicted to 13 million bbls a day of imported petroleum equivalents in an era of unprecedentedly high oil prices....a country with a bankrupt treasury and a wasted currency, struggling with record trade deficit, a still imploding housing valuation and underlying financial crisis, record military expenditures and the most inequitable wealth distribtuion in the community of post industrialized countries, as unemployment and home mortgage foreclosures are in the early stages of a rising trend....all wrapped around a belligerent foreign policy that has alienated oil rich Venezuala, Russia, and Iran....while relations with China begin to erode.
Heh, a very "American" response - you think the leadership of your nation is that much more important than the leadership of all our other nations? That your problems are worse than everyone elses?

Willravel 08-31-2008 02:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by highthief (Post 2516170)
Heh, a very "American" response - you think the leadership of your nation is that much more important than the leadership of all our other nations? That your problems are worse than everyone elses?
That's not what he said at all. He said that this country drinks up way too much oil and as such the election here has international consequences. If Canada were unstable, at war in the Middle East, and was using as much oil as the US, your elections would be similarly important. As it is, Canada is a much more stable country. Stability means the elections don't have to be an international problem because you guys seem to make good choices.

So, in fact, it's actually a compliment.

host 08-31-2008 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by highthief (Post 2516170)
Heh, a very "American" response - you think the leadership of your nation is that much more important than the leadership of all our other nations? That your problems are worse than everyone elses?
Don't get me wrong....your country faces the same looming "problem" as nearly every western person now faces:
Quote:
AC Grayling: Safe in our cages | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

...Once upon a time the authorities worked at frightening everyone into thinking that the unblinking eye of a deity exercised surveillance and data-gathering over them. Now we have Gordon Brown and Siemens, the real thing, not a myth: the unblinking eye of the security services, the local council, "other public bodies", in our bedrooms, our text messages, our emails, our internet searches. ....
...."once upon a time"????
Quote:
In Kabul, Obama calls Afghan front 'central' to war on terror ...
Jul 20, 2008 ... KABUL: Afghanistan must become "the central front" in the war on terror, Barack Obama said Sunday in the Afghan capital, sharpening his ...
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/...east/obama.php

"We have to understand that the situation is precarious and urgent here in Afghanistan, and I believe this has to be the central focus, the central front, in the battle against terrorism," Obama said in an interview with CBS News....

...."Losing is not an option when it comes to Al Qaeda, and it never has been," Obama told CBS....
....but Canada can function as self sufficient, with a sound currency, and without the obligations and liabilities that come to the leadership of a bankrupt and commodities dependent country that long postures as the world's policeman.....

Tully Mars 08-31-2008 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by highthief (Post 2516170)
Heh, a very "American" response - you think the leadership of your nation is that much more important than the leadership of all our other nations? That your problems are worse than everyone elses?
I think you're missing the point of his post.

highthief 08-31-2008 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tully Mars (Post 2516175)
I think you're missing the point of his post.
It wouldn't be the first time.

But you Americans still take yourselves and your politics far too seriously. You make such issues out of blow jobs, pregnancies, and smoking pot - as if any of it matters.

And so many of the things Host goes on about - house prices, the economy, worries about energy, international affairs ... you think you're the only nation with these worries? I'd say the UK is in virtually the same position, with the only difference being the UK doesn't have as far to fall as the US does.

Willravel 08-31-2008 03:37 PM
I got a blow job from a pregnant chick while high once. Trust me, it's great. :suave:

But seriously, the problem is that the US has the potential to start world war three because of our oil addiction and our governmental and corporate corruption that goes back for generations. I love Canada, I'm sure your military is formidable, but you guys really aren't going to start WW3. Neither is the UK, even with Blair 2: Let's Get this Party Started.

highthief 09-01-2008 03:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willravel (Post 2516186)
I got a blow job from a pregnant chick while high once. Trust me, it's great. :suave:

But seriously, the problem is that the US has the potential to start world war three because of our oil addiction and our governmental and corporate corruption that goes back for generations. I love Canada, I'm sure your military is formidable, but you guys really aren't going to start WW3. Neither is the UK, even with Blair 2: Let's Get this Party Started.
It has little to do with your leaders and everything to do with YOU, the American people. It matters little which of your virtually politically identical parties is in power, it's how you feel that matters.

You think the Shrub would've decided to invade Iraq had not the majority of Americans been supportive of the hair-brained concept to begin with? The president doesn't take a dump without a positive opinion poll or three.

Which leads me back to the point: While the way your succession works makes the VP a (potentially) important position, I'm not sure it's worth tearing your hair out over whether Palin has had 4 kids or 5.

Rekna 09-01-2008 07:25 AM
The kid is Palin's I have seen pictures of her where she is very pregnat.

ASU2003 09-01-2008 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by highthief (Post 2516140)
Do you Americans vote based on who the VP candidate is? That state of affairs doesn't really exist in many nations - parties are voted for, as are (to a large extent) party leaders. But who the Deputy Prime Minister is matters very little to nations like Canada, the UK, etc. Hell, I'm not sure I know who the Deputy PM is right now.

I know succession works a little differently in the US, but would even if Elvis was the running mate, would it really matter that much?
The VP choice does matter because if something happens to the President, they automatically become President for the remaining time (until Jan 20, 2013).

The secret service is good, but they aren't that good. I've noticed plenty of flaws in their security at these events. And there are health issues as well. Bad things can happen to anybody sometimes.

And currently, they often get the last word when dealing with major problems with the President.

snowy 09-01-2008 08:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekna (Post 2516382)
The kid is Palin's I have seen pictures of her where she is very pregnat.
Yes, the latest baby is in fact Palin's, as the news came out this morning that Palin's daughter, Bristol, is five months pregnant with her own child.

Quote:
Palin Says Her Daughter, 17, Is Pregnant   click to show 

Rekna 09-01-2008 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by onesnowyowl (Post 2516415)
Yes, the latest baby is in fact Palin's, as the news came out this morning that Palin's daughter, Bristol, is five months pregnant with her own child.
I just saw that and now we know how rumors can easily be started.

Tully Mars 09-01-2008 09:47 AM
Meh, I still say they kidnapped the down syndrome baby... from Madonna... who bought it on the down syndrome baby black market... which we all know is operated by space aliens.

Now can we go back to talking about where McCain and Palin stand on the issues?

Paq 09-01-2008 10:08 AM
sorry, back to the palin's daughter, bristol, story....

I love abstinence education....works so well..

Tully Mars 09-01-2008 10:50 AM
Quote:
"People are learning that she pandered to us by saying, I'm for this' ... and then when she found it was politically advantageous for her nationally, abruptly she starts using the very term that she said was insulting," Weinstein said.

Palin's spokeswoman in Alaska was not immediately available to comment.
Palin bridge to nowhere line angers many Alaskans | U.S. | Reuters

I'm guessing we can look forward to an onslaught of ads stating she was for the bridge before she was against it. Given she's on video, radio and in print making these comments I'd say this is a sign she is completely out of her element in national politics. I'm very surprised the McCain people would let her make these comments in her speech.

BTW-several sources are saying the bridge was killed but she kept the money for it to be used on other Alaskan projects. She claimed she sent the money back to Washington. Any one know if that's true or is it another rumor?

Rekna 09-01-2008 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tully Mars (Post 2516469)
Palin bridge to nowhere line angers many Alaskans | U.S. | Reuters

I'm guessing we can look forward to an onslaught of ads stating she was for the bridge before she was against it. Given she's on video, radio and in print making these comments I'd say this is a sign she is completely out of her element in national politics. I'm very surprised the McCain people would let her make these comments in her speech.

BTW-several sources are saying the bridge was killed but she kept the money for it to be used on other Alaskan projects. She claimed she sent the money back to Washington. Any one know if that's true or is it another rumor?
I know she kept at least some of the money. They built the highway to the bridge to no where even after they nixed the bridge because otherwise they would have had to give the money back.

Tully Mars 09-01-2008 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekna (Post 2516472)
I know she kept at least some of the money. They built the highway to the bridge to no where even after they nixed the bridge because otherwise they would have had to give the money back.
Got any sources for this? I was looking around earlier and couldn't find anything but bloggers. Basically the same folks that said the kid was her daughter's.

If she kept the cash, it's gotta be in a budget somewhere.


On a side note- now that her daughter's pregnant wonder if she's going to be against abstinence only education after she was for it?

Edit-

It's actually on page two of the article I sourced:

Quote:
The state, however, never gave back any of the money that was originally earmarked for the Gravina Island bridge, said Weinstein and Elerding.

In fact, the Palin administration has spent "tens of millions of dollars" in federal funds to start building a road on Gravina Island that is supposed to link up to the yet-to-be-built bridge, Weinstein said.

"She said 'thanks but no thanks,' but they kept the money," said Elerding about her applause line.
Sorry I thought the article only had one page.

But yes it seems she not only was in favor of the bridge before she was against it but she also lied about giving the money back.

Exactly why did the McCain Campaign pick this lady?

ngdawg 09-01-2008 12:08 PM
Because she's a "hot" female politician, unlike Hillary or Pelosi and she's anti-abortion.

Tully Mars 09-01-2008 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngdawg (Post 2516496)
Because she's a "hot" female politician, unlike Hillary or Pelosi and she's anti-abortion.
I'd liked to think the US voter would look a little deeper at someone. Yeah, I'd like to think.

But I can't see Hilary backers flocking to her. She stands on the opposite side of almost every issue Hilary supported. Of the three Hilary supporters I know (not a lot of US voters around me) one was undecided, one hates Obama and was leaning to McCain and the other started backing Obama right after Hilary dropped out. All three said they thought the Palin pick was basically political pandering. I think my Obama hating friend is now writing in Hilary. BTW- she attends church twice a week and watches several TV preachers regularly. She said she'd like to see someone "take Obama out." According to her he's the devil.

I can see hard core conservatives backing her, she's on their side 100%. Plus by the time Fox, Rush et el get done with the bridge story she'll have not only given it back she'll have personally loaded the cash in a wheelbarrow and walked it from Alaska to DC and given a Mr. Smith type speech while dumping it in the oval office.

The part that gets me is why choose her? McCain was already going to get the voters who'll support her. I don't see her bringing in the independent and swing voters each side is going to need to win.

flstf 09-01-2008 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tully Mars (Post 2516504)
The part that gets me is why choose her? McCain was already going to get the voters who'll support her. I don't see her bringing in the independent and swing voters each side is going to need to win.
I think it was a calculated effort to get Hillary voters who think Obama stole the primary and to give the religious right a reason to support the ticket. With some/many Hillary supporters it seems to be working, just take a look at the hillaryis44.org or pumapac.org sites. Their goal is to defeat Obama and run Hillary in 2012.

I'm not sure if her daughter's pregnancy will have any effect on voters perception of her abstinance only and no birth control education in the schools. The religious right will probably like the fact that she walks the walk when it comes to her anti-abortion stance though also her advocating teaching creation in the schools.

abaya 09-01-2008 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tully Mars (Post 2516504)
I'd liked to think the US voter would look a little deeper at someone. Yeah, I'd like to think.
Yeah, wouldn't we all... I gave up hope of that in 2004, unfortunately. :p
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tully Mars
I think my Obama hating friend is now writing in Hilary. BTW- she attends church twice a week and watches several TV preachers regularly. She said she'd like to see someone "take Obama out." According to her he's the devil.
Well. Isn't that a productive stance. Gives me such hope for America. Where does she live?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tully Mars
I don't see her bringing in the independent and swing voters each side is going to need to win.
And you know, that's just fine with me. :lol: I hope it works out exactly like that, frankly.

Tully Mars 09-01-2008 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by abaya (Post 2516545)
Yeah, wouldn't we all... I gave up hope of that in 2004, unfortunately. :p Well. Isn't that a productive stance. Gives me such hope for America. Where does she live? And you know, that's just fine with me. :lol: I hope it works out exactly like that, frankly.

She lives in Mexico, just around the corner from me. She and her brother spew the same crap. Obama's a secret Muslim, he's a terrorist... blah, blah, blah.


Do you really think disenfranchised Hilary supporters will vote GOP just because they put Palin on the ticket? Personally I think the Hilary supporters trying to orchestrate an Obama loss so Hilary can run and win in 2012 were already in McCains camp. I don't see adding her to the ticket as a positive for him. If anything it might make some of the those PUMA folks give it a second thought.

roachboy 09-01-2008 03:08 PM
sometimes i think the only nominee that could manage to maintain consistency with the social-reactionary political line in their personal lives would be a shaker. but they died off
because they didn't believe in sex at all.
but they made nice furniture while they were around.

the problems with finding someone whose life is actually symmterical with their politics is one indication of how self-defeating the whole social-reactionary political worldview is.
but this is all obvious, and hardly seems to have required this bit of theater to become so.


so i kinda feel badly for palin's daughter in all this. she didn't choose any of it, and i wonder if she feels a bit like she's been thrown under a bus (a cliche i'm not quite sick of yet)...i hope we don't read some story soon about her deciding to put her head in an oven. 17 and subjected to all this, even at a remove, cannot be good.

abaya 09-01-2008 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tully Mars (Post 2516563)
Do you really think disenfranchised Hilary supporters will vote GOP just because they put Palin on the ticket?
If they do... and if McCain wins... then those voters will get what they deserve (just like the Bush voters did, even if some of them refuse to recognize/admit the shithole of the economy and foreign relations that Bush has created with their "mandate"). And the rest of America who did not vote in such a manner will have to deal with the fallout, all over again. Yay.

It's the old saying again... be careful what you ask for, 'cause you might just get it (and a hell of a lot more than you bargained for). In politics more than anywhere else.

And yeah, you don't need to tell me... I know that if Obama wins, things could go awry just as much as they did during the Bush years. But I'll GLADLY take things going awry in a different direction--ANY direction--than the direction we're going right now (coughMcCaincough). Feel free to remind me of this in 4 years. I have no problem with that, come what may.

Tully Mars 09-01-2008 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by abaya (Post 2516591)
If they do... and if McCain wins... then those voters will get what they deserve (just like the Bush voters did, even if some of them refuse to recognize/admit the shithole of the economy and foreign relations that Bush has created with their "mandate"). And the rest of America who did not vote in such a manner will have to deal with the fallout, all over again. Yay.

It's the old saying again... be careful what you ask for, 'cause you might just get it (and a hell of a lot more than you bargained for). In politics more than anywhere else.

And yeah, you don't need to tell me... I know that if Obama wins, things could go awry just as much as they did during the Bush years. But I'll GLADLY take things going awry in a different direction--ANY direction--than the direction we're going right now (coughMcCaincough). Feel free to remind me of this in 4 years. I have no problem with that, come what may.
Yeah, a good friend of mine, a guy who voted Bush in 2000, changed his mind after Bush went into Iraq. He had nothing good to say about bush or the GOP (many Dems too) after that. I asked him right before the 04 election if he was voting for Bush again and he said "Yes, they got us in this shit hole, they're the ones that need to own it and get us out of it."

I don't think he's been too happy with what he wished for, in fact I know he hasn't been.

Of the many problems I have with McCain it's his position on the use of military force I disagree with the most. I listen him and it seems his answer to every problem is use military force. Someone once said (some thing to the effect of) "to the man with a large hammer, every problem begins to look like a nail." IMHO, McCain sees every problem as being solvable with a large military hammer. I think he's wrong and he's over judging the size of the hammer currently available.

ottopilot 09-01-2008 08:35 PM
I think Sarah Palin will step up to the podium this week and unzip her skin-suit revealing her true self (at some dramatic moment) to be Hillary Clinton.

I'm going for another Maker's on the rocks... brb.

ASU2003 09-02-2008 04:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roachboy (Post 2516570)
so i kinda feel badly for palin's daughter in all this. she didn't choose any of it, and i wonder if she feels a bit like she's been thrown under a bus (a cliche i'm not quite sick of yet)...i hope we don't read some story soon about her deciding to put her head in an oven. 17 and subjected to all this, even at a remove, cannot be good.
Yeah, she needs to go back to Alaska and live with the new in-laws for a while. The Dad should probably go back with the other kids because they aren't needed in the political arena either.

OK, I'll let them stay for the convention, but then I don't want to see them again until November.

ottopilot 09-02-2008 10:21 AM
edit

Poppinjay 09-02-2008 10:23 AM
McCain did the same thing to himself by releasing a blast youtube spot 15 minutes after the announcement of Biden.

abaya 09-02-2008 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roachboy (Post 2516570)
and i wonder if she feels a bit like she's been thrown under a bus (a cliche i'm not quite sick of yet)
While I agree with you about Palin's daughter, I am in fact sick of that cliche, comrade. :)

Willravel 09-04-2008 10:16 AM
I'm having trouble locating a complete list of Governor Palin's policy positions. I know she has yet to voice opinions on many things, but she had to have positions to get elected governor.

ASU2003 09-04-2008 03:55 PM
I'm not sure where she stands on some issues either. Sure, environment, energy, foreign oil, abortion, corruption, and taxes are a start. But, then again, Alaska doesn't have to worry about too many Canadians illegally immigrating into Alaska. Or urban crime, NAFTA/outsourcing jobs, national debt, balanced budgets, sending the military into a 3rd world country, diplomatic tone, line item veto, and a whole bunch of other issues.

Necrosis 09-10-2008 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by forseti-6 (Post 2516045)
You know you make a great point here. I did notice a lot of Republican pundits were overjoyed when Obama picked Biden as his VP. They all said how Biden brought a great wealth of knowledge to Obama's side, but in the past he has said many things that can and will come back to bite him in his ass. I don't think anyone can doubt how immense and ego he has, and I guess everyone is hoping for him to have more of his infamous slips of the tongue.The first thing I noticed after Palin was announced was CNN reporting the Obama camp reporting on "how poor a choice Palin was." Is it perhaps they feel that more Clinton supporters will erode to McCain or the fact that they're afraid what a great strategy that pick was?

I was reading an opinion piece on CNN and someone mentioned a good points about Palin. They said when she would debate Biden, Biden can be portrayed as a bully beating on a mother of five if he conducts his debates as he's known for. Is this fair? No, but it's going to happen.
How's this for a faux pas?



And then he topped it off by saying " Hillary Clinton ‘Might Have Been a Better Pick’ for VP."

We will be screwed if he winds up being the one who negotiates with our adversaries.

Willravel 09-10-2008 09:50 PM
OH MY GOD. That's almost as bad when George started to make fun of that blind guy.

Necrosis 09-10-2008 09:53 PM
Would anyone like to give odds on whether Biden or someone in his family develops a "health problem," after which Biden has to drop out of the race, and Obama has to pick a new VP candidate?

I have absolutely no clue as to whether Obama would offer it to Hillary, or whether she would accept.

dc_dux 09-10-2008 10:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrosis (Post 2522205)
And then he topped it off by saying " Hillary Clinton ‘Might Have Been a Better Pick’ for VP."

We will be screwed if he winds up being the one who negotiates with our adversaries.
Absolutely, it was an incredibly stupid thing to say.

But to think we will be screwed if he winds up as VP....yes, he has an ego and a loose tongue, but he is incredibly knowledgeable in foreign affairs.

As opposed to Palin who McCain and others have said has foreign affairs experience because Alaska is in close proximity to Russia (paraphrasing).

And lets not forget these gems by our current VP:
"I had other priorities in the sixties than military service." –on his five draft deferments.

"Conservation may be a sign of personal virtue but it is not a sufficient basis for a sound, comprehensive energy policy."

"My belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators." - on the day of our invasion of Iraq

"I think they're in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency." -- on the Iraq insurgency, June 20, 2005

"Go fuck yourself." --to Sen. Patrick Leahy, during an angry exchange on the Senate floor about profiteering by Halliburton


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