1) It is a pleasant surprise. I expected McCain to go with conventional wisdom. My perception of him was that he was too political.

2) I think people like Palin are going to be our future. I am looking forward to seeing how she does so that in four years, we have something to be excited about.

3) The contrast between talking about change and actually changing. The contrast between Obama and McCain crystallized for me in the past 12 hours.

4) I like people who project an image of an outdoors man. I have a bias against "soft" intellectual types.

5) I think Cheney has set a new standard for the VP, I think under Bidden or Palin we can expect the VP to be more active than in the past.

A white, conservative christian is the future. Woo hoo. Never had that before. Beholden to oil lobbyists, that's completely new. A soccer mom, never heard about them before.

The wave of the future is 1956!

Uh, she has a vag. She's not an outdoors man. I bet you must have a love/hate feel for John Muir.

I think for the McCain ticket, it is extremely important who his VP is. He may not make 4 years.

Se has an 80% approval in her state, obviously she can unite people.

She has fought against those corrupt in her state. She has fought for her state to be self sufficient ..... state's rights are important to me, she stands for her beliefs:

I think it is a tremendously kick ass choice.

As for abortion...... does anyone truly believe Roe v. Wade will ever be overturned? It's a non issue for me. The Dems will still own Congress.....If that's the only issue you want to vote for, good for you, but I choose to want to better the whole country.

I still believe these 2 candidates to be the worst choice this country has ever seen, but now, now with Palin...... it makes it somewhat better. Hell, a WHOLE lot better.

As for the reply above "see you avatar" to that again, I say, truly study Lennon, you maybe surprised at what you find.

Oh, it's Palin. That's interesting.

Have you not been paying attention the last 8 years? Abortion rights have been severley restricted. It's nice that you, as a man, don't have to worry about it.

Obama's candidacy is no more than a gigantic race card. White guilt (although to the best of my knowledge, he doesn't have any slaves in his lineage) along with the African bloc, could have propelled him over the top and into office. He really has no other qualifications. Certainly not a decent voting record, or any accomplishments to point out. If he were white, he wouldn't have advanced past a city council position. Okay, maybe he'd be a mayor by now.

Additionally, a woman can get away with being pro-lfe; it's just men that can't. With the number of women who are ready to see a woman in the white house, it's extremely likely that the thought of such a situation will trump the abortion issue, which shouldn't be a political issue, anyway.

McCain has pretty much taken away the age argument, and he's playing a gender card against the race card. Scare tactics about Mormons are now moot, as well.

It's doubtful that with McCain's reputation as a maverick, Obama can make his current attempt to label McCain as another Bush sway the electorate. McCain also might not hesitate to point out to the "No more Bush!' faction that it was Republicans who had black secretaries of state, namely Powell and Rice. The Democrats gave us Joycelyn Elders. :no: First Latino AG? Appointed by Bush.

Barring a skeleton surfacing (not much chance of a bimbo eruption), I like McCain's chances.

If she had an 80% approval rating in a large, diverse state I think you'd have something there. Alaska isn't really what I think of when I think about a state with a multiplicity of viewpoints that need to be united over objections. I mean, I guess it means they think she's doing alright, but that's not really a strong indicator of her ability to bring people together.

That beehive hairdo has to go.

A Steel Worker's union commercial fisherman worker for her husband????? Oh my.

A son in Iraq????? Oh my.

Parents who worked in the schools????? Oh My.

I seriously doubt that we will ever return to the 50's. Scare tactics much?

Welcome to the world of gun laws.

/threadjack

She's been in one year, what do you think's going to come from an approval poll? Bush I and II both had numbers in that range at one point from the entire country. Bush II is now at 19%

Is this the voice of tolerance and equality? Would a token ethnic gay be the PC choice?

I do not see Obama as a black candidate. However, I understand how it is human nature to make such distinctions. We should always choose the best qualified for the job. In my opinion, NEITHER of the presidential candidates are qualified to be president. For as much as Obama chose Biden over Hillary (or Bill Richardson, a Hispanic), I'm sure your outrage was equally expressed. We just have to assume these jokers are picking the best qualified to suit their ambitions.

I can't shake the thought that this simply looks like a stunt.

I'll have to wait to see how this pans out before formulating a stronger opinion.

Did you somehow miss the quote this was in answer to or are you purposefully being obtuse?

I thing anyone objectively has to wonder about her depth of knowledge about the two most critical issues to most Americans -- the economy and national security.

IMO, she probably has alot of homework to do before her debate with Biden on oct. 2.

And Obama doesn't????

LOL.

I said OBJECTIVELY :)

Whether you agree or disagree with his positions on the economy and national security, if you dont think Obama can speak off the cuff and in depth about those issues, you really are not listening....no surprise.

Uh, Pan, I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about GonadWarrior and the avatar of the uterus.

Caught the quote and response. I felt I was very clear. Is there a problem with being white and Christian? What ethnicity and religion should a VP candidate "be"? I believe Joe Biden is a white Christian.

Well, if it contributes to him losing, then it's a fantastic pick in my opinion. :thumbsup:

Let's see...... Gov. Ted Strickland Democrat in Ohio, whom I supported and still do even though he isn't accomplishing shit..... took office from a very scandal ridden GOP governor that along with some others almost destroyed the party here. And what approval numbers does Strickland, who has just as much time in office as Palin, have?

Have you never watched Obama speak...ever? I mean, clearly you have some major issues with the guy, which is your choice, but if you did spend any time watching him, he's more than capable of speaking intelligently about foreign policy and the economy.

He sounds more secure on those issues than Bush does after 8 years of being the president, though, that's just as likely simply because he's a great orator as it is because of any superior knowledge.

Please show me where I said it was wrong to be a white Christian. Please tell me how that's something new, and the future for our country.
-----Added 29/8/2008 at 12 : 56 : 35-----
I think this just further proves the point that approval polls are nonsense early on in an administration. Clinton's were in the celler at the start. Bush I got up to 92%, before becoming one termer.

Gallup Poll August 15, 2008 "Bush’s Job Approval Inches Up to 33%".

On the other hand... Congress, the sweeping "peoples mandate" folks, are enjoying approval at below 10%.

Polls... go figure.

Now this made me laugh...from a Fox News commentator:

DOOCY: But the other thing about her, she does know about international relations because she is right up there in Alaska right next door to Russia

OK, fair enough... what did you mean?

It will be interesting considering many may see this as a desperate attempt to get Hillary's voters. Also Palin recently said she has "no idea what the vice president even does" and that she proceed to say "I would have to see what I can do for Alaska with the Vice Presidency". Alaska has a bad rep for bringing home pork and now we want to put a person who has admitted she will use the position to bring home more pork. Also she comes with her own abuse of executive power scandal. It won't be hard to paint her like Bush.

Yes, I have heard Obama speak and when he is on teleprompter and rehearsed he is good.... but when he has to speak off the cuff and without an help.... um, well.... you know... uh uh uh..... I think...... well maybe...... I have been to 57 states and I have 2 more to go..... but I'm tired.... so I have a great excuse for not truly knowing that for which I speak.

Ummmmm..... if he makes a simple mistake like that when he's "tired" what kind of mistake will he make when he's president and has to stay up all night working on issues that are important and need his decision??????

Yeah. That's what I thought.

Otto...I think we've discussed before how comparing the two is apples and oranges.

But for whatever polls are worth, probably the most important or relevant in terms of the election are the "direction of the country" polls.

The latest are about 80% believing the country is moving in the wrong direction.

Yes, anyone may pick and choose polls to take comfort in their ideology... I understand.

I'd rather have Obama than Old Geazer McCain when its late. Especially if the phone call comes at 3 am and McCain took Ambien that night....

Yep...that goes both ways.

What I meant was that a white, conservative Christian is not very futuristic. If that's what one thinks of the future, then they really want more of the same old. You seem to shorten it to just "white Christian".

Do I not want conservatives in office? Yes. Yes, I don't.

Um she has fought pork in her state, she believes states should be self sufficient and she has fought corruption in her state:

Sarah Palin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Her abuse of power? Let's see:

So white Christians can't be futuristic? ... I'm just messing with you :)

They have her on tape a few weeks ago saying she wants to use the power of the VP to advocate for Alaska.... Also she is under investigation by a republican lead state congress....

That was my point too, not a dig.

Also is Palin ready to be president if something happens to McCain (likely at his age, especially with his anger/stress issues).

And????

Um, if I were to be offered VP, I'd want to know how I could help my state of Ohio.

Is there a scandal other than the Wiki I provided? If so, please do tell.
-----Added 29/8/2008 at 01 : 22 : 38-----
LOL.... is Obama ready to be? I don't think so? Again, you talk about experience.... what experience does Obama show that he is ready to be president?

It has yet to be resolved:
I guess you can believe she "only now became aware of it" rather than believe it is a potential abuse of power.

Exactly.

... BTW - was there some sort of a speech made somewhere last night?

I don't want the president or the VP to be trying to do anything to help their home state, as that defeats entirely the purpose of being a national leader. Senators and representatives have the job of working to help their state. It has no place in the executive realm.

If a lazy excessive dirinker in his post-college adult years, failed oil exec, figurehead owner of a baseball team, six year governor with no foreign policy was ready...I have no doubt Obama is equally or better prepared :)

Otto...you voted for this guy eight years ago and you dont see the double standard?

You are going to hear a lot about McCain's age and Palin's ineperience. Obama's experience is much greater than Palin's who 20 months ago was a mayor of a small town with a population of 6,500. The conservatives will now have a much harder time saying Obama is inexperienced. In addition some of the major conservative pundits aren't even happy with here. Here are some quotes:

with Kathryn Jean Lopez of National Review: "She Just Is Not Ready to Be Commander-in-Chief"

Pat Buchanan responded to the quote above: "I'm liable to agree."

National Review's Jonah Goldberg: "Downside: She may not be ready for primetime. The heartbeat-from-the-presidency issue is a real one."

From the National Review's Jonathon Adler: "I recognize that were McCain to select Palin as his Veep it disrupts the Obama Lacks Foreign Policy Experience" talking point, but I was never thought that argument was all that powerful."

From Town Hall's Ron Fournier: "If Obama is an empty suit, as McCain has suggested, is Palin suited for the Oval Office herself?

She is younger and less experienced than the first-term Illinois senator, and brings an ethical shadow to the ticket. Just 20 months ago, she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, a town of 6,500 where the biggest issue is controlling growth and the biggest annual worry is whether there will be enough snow for the Iditarod dog-mushing race."

From Joe Scarborough: "It Sounds Like a Harriet Miers Decision. Let's Find a Woman, Whether She's Experienced or Not."

If your own hatchet men are attacking her you have to be a bit worried.

Too bad no-one matching that description is running against Obama, I share your concerns. :)

Its a shame you and millions of others cant take back your vote from eight years ago...what a different country we might be.

But it seems to me that you are still applying a double standard....for whatever thats worth. I guess experience didnt matter eight years ago, but it does now.

She smokes weed and believes global warming is a threat to the planet. McCain is trying to move right and he's going to try to make Governor Sarah take the left.

I've never actually seen a campaign poster tear in half just because of political ideology, this should be interesting.

Oh cheer up dc! Obama will win the election. McCain got a little bump and I'm just having a little fun.

This pick also brings into question McCains judgement. If you were going to be President and you had to pick someone to run the country if you were to die who would be better at running the country Palin or Biden? Palin is not nearly strong enough or experienced enough to be President. Why would McCain pick her? I think Joe Scarborough was probably right.

She does? ... cool.

otto...i cant cheer up until Obama tells me its ok....we're all cultists, remember :)

I read that she "had smoked weed once but didn't like it." Where are you seeing that she still does?

Understood :thumbsup:

It's futile to resist, we will be assimilated.

-----Added 29/8/2008 at 01 : 56 : 26-----

WOW! Just a thought...
I hope Hillary wasn't servicing (eee) Bill in some manor when the news came out about Palin as the VP choice.

I know the odds are highly against it, but just a thought.

I have posted that.... why not read what is said in the Wiki article I posted.

Naw, you'd rather have the liberal bias. Don't want anyone to know:

That wold make it look like there really isn't much to talk about there.

Should we open Biden's closet?

I don't think you really want to compare scandals.... Biden will lose.

Experience? Experience is a problem.

Let's compare:

Obama: US Senator logged 143 days, not present for much of that time. Voted on less that one quarter of Senate votes during that period. No experience as an executive managing a government or budgets.

Palin: Elected Governor of Alaska in 2006. I'm not sure how much vacation time or maternity leave she's taken, but she has at least triple the amount of real-time hands on experience in office than Obama... and Palin actually has experience running a successful government.

Then you'd be a lousy VP. THE problem with the current administration, fundamentally, is that Bush thinks he's the president of 51% of the people. And he calls that a mandate. NOBODY'S been watching the people's business.

I can't argue whether or not Palin is an experienced political figure or whether she will be a good VP but I will argue that the reason she was picked is because she is a young woman and that is the end of it. This is supposed to take away from Obama's thunder of last night and it is. We will see if it hurts McCain in the long run.

*EDIT*

I'd hit that shit regardless of her political affiliation. Sorry but it's rare you see a woman in politics that is attractive, much less a possible VP.

VP choice usually doesn't matter, the best you can hope for is that they don't negatively impact the ticket. I think this choice will hurt him more than help him by November. I think McCain's people may have panicked and are making a bold desperate move by abandening the experience (ready to be commander in chief on day one) argument to try and get Hillary voters. Especially since he has said he won't seek a second term which makes her first in line to take over.

The problem with Palin's "executive experience" is that it's roughly comparable to being mayor of Charlotte, NC, except even easier because of the scads of oil money Alaska has.

I have to confess, when I saw her picture in the first article about it I read, my very first thought was, "Is John McCain hitting that?"

I immediately dismissed the notion as silly--what was I thinking? John McCain can't get it up anymore at his age! :lol:

EDIT: Okay, I'm kidding around obviously, but kidding aside--this pick puts McCain's age and health right front and center in the campaign. It's a vast mistake.

Also, lots of conservative commentators, try as they might, are at least puzzled if not downright displeased by this choice. I mentioned the Harriet Myers nomination earlier in this thread--it's reminding me more and more of that as the day goes on.

Well of course they'll rehash Biden's plaiarism problem...

• Plagiarizing in law school.
• Plagiarized a Bobby Kennedy speech word for word (the whole speech)...
• Then there was the infamous Neil Kinnock speech that he plagiarized, forcing Biden to drop out of the 1988 presidential race.

It won't have legs for long, but he's got issues to exploit.
-----Added 29/8/2008 at 02 : 51 : 33-----
Still, Obama's "experience" of 143 days of maybe being there and not really "doing" anything pales in comparison.

First, I'm not ever going to be a VP candidate.

Secondly, yes I would look to help my home state BUT I would also be ethically responsible for bettering ALL of the country.

Thirdly, the VP has little power except as a tie breaker in the Senate.

Finally....... I am not, nor have ever been a fan of W's. I despise the man.

Obama spent 8 years as a state senator likely representing more people than Palin did as governer of Alaska.

She is quite interesting.
Advocates teaching creation theory in school.
In school played basketball was president of the "Fellowship of Christian Athletes" nicknamed "Sarah Barracuda"
Former beauty queen who hunts moose.
Named kids Track, Bristol, Willow, Piper and Trig Paxson Van Palin.

http://bp2.blogger.com/_uExTzMIDd1Y/...alin-Vogue.jpg

That's the key word... "represent"... like for a postal code or two. State senators do not govern, make executive decisions, manage a budget, nor direct foreign policy.

BTW - The State of Alaska has numerous international trading parters which include state run industries....

I would take Obama's experience over Palin's any day. Then again I would take Obama's over McCain's also. When it comes to experience quality is greater than quantity and both of them are trumped by judgment, something McCain seriously lacks. He has been wrong on almost every major issue in the last 8 years. McCain does not have the judgement nor the temperament to be president.

Also by your argument McCain has no experience either as he has only "represented" people as a senator, he has never governed, made executive decisions, etc.

This sounds promising.

McCain picks Alaska Gov. for VP - USATODAY.com

True, I am not a McCain supporter. I'm just pointing out that Obama has less practical leadership experience than Palin. That seems to be the question here. I would rarely back a senator for president.

she is really quite far to the right.

I hate how so many people put up experience as a deciding factor in political figures. I saw a comic around recently that explained it perfectly.

*EDIT* I found it

http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/200...tomo/story.jpg

Can we shut up about experience?

Palin is an interesting choice. She is fairly well-known among social conservatives, so she helps shore up support from the Republican base. She is also popular with the anti-tax crowd. She is likable, apparently smart, energetic, a good speaker and has a great story. Not being that well know, most will not know about how very conservative she really is and I think the McCain campaign is hoping to downplay how far to the right she really is. Finally, she has a very high approval rating from women, especially in the 35 - 50 age group, the very group that Obama has difficulty with. It appears McCain felt that with they way things are going, a Romney, Pawlenty or Ridge would not get him over the top. He knows that this is going to be a close election and needed to do something different, something that makes his ticket something special. He hopes she brings out the base and pulls some women, fiscal conservatives and independents.

All that being said, I can't say I think she is a great choice.

Seems like an odd choice. I can't see how she could appeal to many of the women who supported Hilary. The differences between the two are night and day.

No way I'm voting for someone who wants to teach creationism as a science. But I was past even considering voting for McCain several flip flops ago.

Executive Experience Scorecard:

Palin - 2 years
McCain - 0
Obama - 0
Biden - 0

Can we drop this argument now?

Fine by me.

This woman looks more interesting the more I read. She rides a Harley and likes to shoot AR-15s. Below she is shooting a 50 cal.

http://bp2.blogger.com/_L2DBb_zR1rs/...400/Sarah+with

http://i33.tinypic.com/wk5sih.jpg

http://www.palmerelks.org/images/wwp-photo2.jpg

And I thought the McCain/Obama debate was going to be interesting.

And her hobbies have what to do with her qualifications to be VP or POTUS how?

What it almost certainly does is take Alaska off the table for Obama.

Alaska has been trending a bit towards Obama, probably because of its two scandal plagued Republican officials - recently indicted Senator Ted Stevens and Congressman Don Young, who is still under investigation.

One of those red states Obama targeted and had a small, but realistic chance to pick-up is now done.

Not sure Alaska was ever that much of an option for Obama. But I'd agree it's off the table now.

I don't know, people vote for all kinds of different reasons. Maybe soon we will see a photo of her and Hillary downing boilermakers in some blue collar tavern.

Alaska has a senate race this year and unfortunately for the Republicans, it is 80+ year old Senator Stevens against the young mayor of Anchorage...and the mayor is running away it since Steven's indictment. The thought was reverse coattails could bring votes to Obama.

Oh well, at the very least, another pick-up for the Democrats in the Senate...one that they didnt expect this time last year.

Also don't forget Palin has very close ties to Stevens and her reputation could be damaged by Steven's sins.

It will be interesting to see her take on Biden in a debate.

Umm, here's what she actually had to say about the bridge before she was a VP candidate:

Did Palin Really Fight The ?Bridge To Nowhere?? - The Plank

She didn't get through her first day without lying. Oh well, if the Republicans act like it's true then it must be.

Not American, but having a MILF in office has some appeal.

I like her as a VP pick, just on the fact that I saw the term "VPILF" today. That alone has been the bright spot of this election cycle.

I know, it's just always struck me odd that people will vote on these issues and forgo actually looking into whether or not they agree with the person's ideals and positions

Well my comment is a little late to this post, but, WHO?

I might have heard her name in passing a few times, but I wasn't even aware she was being vetted.

Don't tell me you're surprised. They'll repeat this often enough and loud enough at least 60% of the voting people will believe it regardless of any facts.
-----Added 29/8/2008 at 07 : 19 : 08-----
Do her? Probably. Vote for her based on her ideas, not happening.

I would say get used to saying President Obama because McCain just blew it. Women across the United States will take this announcement as patronizing in the worse way. It is almost insulting. McCain just revealed how desperate and out of touch he really is. His next job should be firing his strategists since his semblance in this race to the White House is almost non-existent, and when he does get media attention, it never seems to be positive(damned liberal media)

Why would McCain remove "no experience" from his arsenal against Obama? Are his campaign people Democrats?

I really see this as a hail Mary (that's the correct term right?) by McCain. Which I find odd given the way the polls are going. I seriously would have put money on Romney prior to the announcement. Looks like a really tight race to me. Based on the GOP's approval rating and Bush's it seems to me Obama should be 10-15 points up.

I think the Dems should be really wary of being over confident. This race is no where near in the bag, IMHO.

She props McCain up nicely with the Christian Conservative vote.
She brings the look of change and youth to McCain's stodgy look.

If elections are about appearances, McCain just made a great choice.

But lets she how she does on the campaign trail. Things haven't even begun.

As someone who infiltrated the Republican gathering today, I'll tell you about it.

There were quite a few people there. And except for one secret service agent, I had the darkest skin (because I got sunburned 10 days ago).
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3023/...02088206_o.jpg
Both parties suck at distributing tickets. I was really lucky just to get in, and as you can see I had to stand in the far back corner, but at least I could see. There were more people behind me.

What I found interesting was that McCain had local college cheerleaders and a modern rock bad (they played Finger Eleven - Paralizer...the people around me were in their 60's-80's) But I liked it. :)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3105/...0d09a7e1_o.jpg

And the first hand experience when they announced Sarah Palin was a lot of excitement. The Republican base (especially Republican women) were happy and crying and quite excited. And compared to him announcing Huckabee, Romney, or Giuliani; she is someone that Republicans can get behind.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3024/...ca8e9d0c_o.jpg

What I thought when I first saw her was, is that Laura Roslin? I'm such a nerd. For the small group that doesn't know who she is, it's from the newer Battlestar Glactica SciFi channel TV series. Roslin was the sec. of Education before the cylon machines attacked and killed everyone in the government, so she became President and while there were some issues, she did a pretty good job.
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p...tya_bsg_81.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p...tya_bsg_81.jpg
http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/m...aphics/049.jpg
http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/m...aphics/049.jpg

They look alike...which one is which?
http://web.me.com/dnksr/vpilf.com/SA...palin_t575.jpg
http://web.me.com/dnksr/vpilf.com/SA...palin_t575.jpg


And if you haven't seen it yet: VPilf.com They guessed it before I made the OP.

In any election you're going to win 40 and lose 40... it's the 20 inbetween that are going to make or break you. This choice smells of desperation but it's also one that's pretty cagey and certainly adds an element of interest that otherwise would have been spam on a plate had he chosen Romney or Ridge... at least the rest of the election season will now be entertaining!

And I agree that we will all know a lot more about her in the next week or two. Picking her will mean that I can't write off voting Republican (I currently think McCain would be better for me, but Obama would be better for the nation right now). And the VP debates just went from a boring TV show that no one would have watched to a must see prime-time event.

seems to me that the republicans have to keep turnout low to win.
i dont' think they can do it.
polin isn't going to help them, if that's the case.

There were more Republicans at this event than the Obama event in January. True, this was a special occasion, but I wouldn't underestimate the number of Republicans in Ohio that always vote, and will now be voting for sure. Unless some mistake happens.

I saw quite a few "dark peoples" in your pictures ASU.

She does remind me of Laura Roslin. When I first saw her i did a double take. That and also she came from nowhere, a virtual unknown. Also (stretching here) I get the feeling they share similar politics (remember the whole ban abortion thing)?

Anyways, Laura Roslin did a great job so who knows, maybe Sara Palin will turn out good too.

I was just saying that there may have been less than 100 there out of 15,000. At the Obama rally there was between 3,000-4,000 out of 11,000.

(Obama Rally)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3287/...7cd038ce_o.jpg