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Do "Christian" license plates violate the separation clause?
Many states either have or are considering license plates the cater to the Christian crowd. Indiana and North Carolina offer a plate with the words "In God We Trust". FL is considering license plates with a cross and stained glass window with the words "I believe".
Here are a few samples Florida rejected this design but it is the current design being considered by South Carolina. http://www.browardatheists.com/browa...ate.56.JPG.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...GodWeTrust.jpg http://www.scdmvonline.com/DMVNew/pl...GodWeTrust.gif So, the big question is: Do these plates violate the separation clause? What do I think? While this is not something I would make a case over, I find it somewhat disingenuous that these states are claiming that they aren't showing any preference towards Christianity with these plates. I'll post more as the discussion grows. |
I certainly don't think those should be the standard issue plates, but having them as an option is cool. I mean there are plates for local sports teams and animal protection and stuff like that offered in most states so why not the religious thing. But again not mandatory-because that would defiantly be a violation and not cool at all.
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I don't see it as being any different from any other vanity plates.
Around here you can get license plates depicting organizations you belong to, or the logo of your favourite sports team, etc. That's not a case of the state showing preference to these organizations, but rather allowing residents to express themselves in another way. Here is a page showing all of the different graphics available for Ontario license plates. While Christian plates aren't depicted, I really don't see how one could argue that Star Trek license plates are okay but Christian ones aren't. I don't think a plate that's captioned 'In God We Trust' is any worse than all of your currency that says precisely the same thing. EDIT - It is of course a different case if these plates are mandatory. |
What are your opinions that these states offer no plates of other religions - Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, etc. - yet claim that they are not showing any preference?
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Well, clearly that's rubbish, but at the same time if nobody complains than I don't really have much of a problem with it. If there are people who want Jewish plates but are unable to get them, then maybe there's something there.
Initially I thought that there's probably just not enough demand for plates of other religions to make them cost-effective. That's probably still true, but I suppose if sports teams can have their own plates than it gets a bit shaky. |
Recent (June 4) report on NPR: S.C. Lawmakers Back 'I Believe' Plates : NPR. Apparently there's an "In Reason We Trust" plate as well.
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I see those Hoosier plates all the time. It seems half the state has them -- or at least the half that drives outside of Indiana. It's the we in "In Christian Sky God we trust" that bugs me. I don't. There are even people in Indiana who don't. I think the "I believe" slogan was probably chosen as a way to avoid this very issue. Note also that although you'd pay to say "I'm a BSU grad" on your plates, you don't even have to pay extra to advertise your Christianity in SC or Indiana.
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At first...I didn't care. Big deal, right? But, the more I thought about it, the more I realized that it's just one more log on the fire. Just one more toe hold in the mountain climb to creating state sponsored religion.
You want to wear your religion on your sleeve? (or, in this case, your back bumper) Fine, I have no problem with that. Seriously. What do I care? But....that's what bumper stickers and little plastic chrome plated stylized fish are for. |
you guys haven't figured out yet that what is going on here is that this is a moneymaking opportunity for the state? Here in NY there are all sorts of affinity plates that are available. If a state wants to offer affinity plates to Christians, BFD. It doesn't hurt anyone, and it raises money painlessly because some people are actually willing to pay to have a cross on their license plate.
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There are custom license plate designs for all sorts of interests.
I'm actually in favor of this, because it categorizes religion as what it is: an interest. Like knitting or sailing. I'm a model RC airplane pilot. There's no license place design for that interest. Am I being discriminated against? |
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I would say no in answer to the question. License plates are issued by individual states not by the federal government or specifically Congress. Here is what the first amendment says:
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I mean how cool would it be if you could actually get a plate that is to your liking or group. So this allows Jews, Muslims, Flying Pasta Monster, Jericho Fans, Firefly Fans the ability to get their vanity plates. Quote:
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While one could excuse it as a reaction to demand (what Jewish person would want the David Star on the back of their Volvo?), simply not making them available at all does seem to suggest that their not even interested in appearing interested in equal representation of religions. Individual states are a part of the government and, as such, are just as prone to religious biases and interference as the federal government. Ace, "freedom of religion" also means "freedom from religion". That can be reasonably expanded to "no government religion". No government religion means that the government, including the DMV, cannot be religious. So in actuality, it would be a violation of the 1st to have the plates. To not have them would not be a violation of the 1st. |
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So state laws, regs and practices would violate the establishment clause unless it has a valid secular purpose and does not advance or inhibit one religion over others. IMO, these license plates fail the test. |
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Secondly, offering a vanity plate is not the establishment of religion. However, disallowing the option could be construed as prohibiting free exercise thereof. I agree that the lack of interest in other religions might make it unreasonable to develop Judaism plates and Islam plates, especially in that region of the country. Go to NY or CA and you might have more chance of one of those two (in MI we could probably hock enough Crescent Moon plates to make them viable). Also, due to the first amendment, the Fed doesn't really have the authority to step in on a State's right to offer such plates. As for fairness, the Constitution does not guarantee a "Right to Fairness". Life is not fair now just like like was not fair in 1776. Deal with it! Meh! I dislike the idea, but I can't actually find anything logically or legally wrong with it. |
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Remember, these license plates must be approved by the state legislature. To me, that's where the issue lies. |
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I would still argue that the wording on state license plate is not respecting the establishment of a religion. "In God We Trust" is printed on our money, and in the case of Florida they have about 50 different specialty plates, like this one: http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/specialtyt...of_florida.jpg or this: http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/specialtyt..._the_world.jpg I know a couple of Florida grads who think Gator football is a religion, but I beg to differ. And everybody knows North Carolina is the golf capital of the world. |
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Still, "In God We Trust" really isn't appropriate for a country that claims to have separation of church and state. I like Charles Darwin on the British 10 pound note, but I'd never ask that of the US. |
And isn't it sacrilegious?
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http://mystickerspace.com/images/des...in-pissing.jpg |
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD. * * * * * Subjective, yes. Printing this on money can be considered trivial and/or profane. It's money. What does that have to do with one's faith in God and it's practices? |
Here's somewhere we can maybe go with this.
Let's say an outside observer with no knowledge of our culture but with a basic knowledge of the major religions saw all of this on our money and license plates. What impression of our government and religion do you think this person might get? |
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"In God We Trust" on our currency, "under God" in the pledge, faith based initiatives in government, teaching creation in public science classrooms... the list goes on and on. |
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I always assumed our motto was E Pluribus Unum ("from many, one"), which I think is fucking awesome. And it makes perfect sense, as it refers to the many states being one nation. "In God We Trust", like "under God" in the pledge, was propaganda meant to illicit sympathy from the religious in a time of war. That's not fucking awesome. It's kinda sad, actually. |
I think much of the problem stems from the fact that there are too many people in the U.S. who believe that the only source of morality comes from Christianity. It's not the Christianity, necessarily, that they want on the currency, the pledge, and the license plates so much as it is the morality. Is it not?
The atheistic humanists aren't making enough progress, apparently. How are the grassroots? |
Whatever happened to "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's"?
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If it is more than a slogan, what impact doe it have? In my view those are just word on a piece of paper. The words, "Legal Tender" printed on some money actually has a meaning. |
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