robot_parade

So, today Obama announced that he would not participate in the public financing system after all.

Truth-o-meter

I can understand why he would do so - his job right now is to win the election. But still, he's stepping away from principles here.

I'll still vote for him in Nov, though.

ratbastid

I don't know about "stepping away from principles". Did you actually see his announcement? It's being positioned as a highly principled move. Obama is the first candidate since the inception of those public funds after Watergate to decline them, because he says the system is broken and invites third party (what is it, 549? some number I'm too lazy to look up) groups like the Swiftboaters to circumvent the system and run attack ads on lobbyist money. He's inviting donations for the first campaign ever run that is outside the broken system. That's what he's saying.

I guess the fact that he can now clobber McCain financially doesn't hurt...

robot_parade

Well, I was referring to the fact that he said he would "aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election.” And now he isn't. I understand and agree with the reasons why he's doing it, but there it is. You can say he didn't explicitly promise to use the public financing system, but that's just mincing words, AFAICT.

Shauk

what reason does he have to pursue it if McCain opted out back in February? it has to be a mutual agreement if it's going to be fair.

aceventura3

A true politician would be foolish not to make the most of an advantage they have over an opponent to win an election. Obama has a fund raising advantage over McCain and his ability to raise funds far exceeds what he could get from the public financing system. Given the fact that he is a politician, I would expect him to do what he did. I am not disappointed now and I won't be disappointed in the future - he is clearly going to be making politically motivated decisions.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

robot_parade

McCain opted out of public financing for the *primary*. He is going with public financing for the general election. Of course, he's going with public financing because he can't raise more than that on his own. I have no illusions that he would drop public financing if he thought he could raise more that way, just like Obama.

dc_dux

I'm not bothered in the least by Obama's decision. I expect he will take a short term hit for it, but it has no staying power as an issue.

He attempted to engage the McCain campaign to include voluntary limits on the political parties' funding in support of the respective campaigns as part of an agreement to accept public financing...and was rebuffed.

I understand why McCain and the RNC rebuffed Obama; the RNC (and to a lesser extent, Republican Party) has a fund raising advantage and more cash on hand. On the other hand, the Democratic congressional funding organizations are kicking ass.

IMO, the greatest inherent problem with the current public financing system is that the candidates can simply encourage their supporters to contribute to the party instead of directly to the candidate's campaign (and make it appear in fund raising ads/letters that contributors are giving to the campaign).

So if McCain accepts the public financing, all of the big donors and PACs for McCain will now give their money to the RNC instead.

I do give Obama credit for prohibiting the Democratic party from accepting PAC money, even though there are probably loopholes here as well

The candidates can exert influence on the respective party fundraising. Obama chose to do so..McCain did not.

The issue of the independent 527 organizations (on both sides) is far more abusive to the system..there is no direct relationship with the campaigns (or at least, there is not supposed to be) and very little accountability for what can and cannot be said in a 527 ad.

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

jorgelito

I agree. I raised an eyebrow at first but have since been satisfied with his explanation. Still, doesn't hurt to keep monitoring the situation.

Tully Mars

He's not the coming Messiah. He's a politician is going to make political moves. Seriously did anyone not see this coming? The non-stop infotainment channels make this sound like some huge issue, I don't see it.

I'm way more interested in who he picks as his VP and his policy ideas.

__________________
I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

SirSeymour

Staying power as an issue is not the issue. The real issue is that at the end of the day, when the decision has to be made, Obama just proved to everyone that he is just like every other politician...willing to trade principle for position.

He made a promise and now that it is more politically expedient to do so he is reversing himself. Over the last 2 or 3 months I had rethought my outlook on this election and I was prepared to vote for a democrat for the first time in my life for President because I really thought he was different. This announcement has caused me to sit down and really rethink that.

__________________
SQL query
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0
Zero rows returned....

dc_dux

SirSy:

IMO, every voter should think carefully about their outlook on the election and the candidate of their choice.

BUt I also believe the candidates should be judged using the same or comparable standards.

If you are judging Obama as *a different kind of candidate" and he fails to meet that standard....then I suggest also judging McCain on his many flip flops - bush tax cuts, off shore drilling, immigration policy, etc (to ingratiate himself with the conservatives who dont trust him) ..or his self-proclaimed "anti-lobbyist" image while having nearly 100 lobbyists acting as advisors and fund raisers.... and how these "principles" fit within his "straight talk express"

I get a sense that some voters seem to be holding Obama to a higher standard for his pledge to "change the way Washington works" and be "a different kind of a candidate" than they do for McCain's pledge to "say what I mean and mean what I say".

If that is the case (Obama being held to a higher standard)...why do you think that is?

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

ratbastid

EDIT: I got my Obama-bashing threads mixed up. Thanks, host.

aceventura3

The McCain standard is low. McCain does not have the support of the Republican Party conservative base. His "maverick" reputation may have earned him political points with some, but for many (including me), he is not a principled individual. McCain has staked out a unique position on political issues that shows that he can not be trusted. I will not vote for him under almost any circumstance.

On the Democrat side we had Hilary Clinton, I don't agree with her on many things, but I do know what to expect from her. Obama, is an unknown - he is proving to be more like McCain at this point than I am comfortable with. Ironically in a McCain/Clinton race I would have voted for Clinton. In a McCain/Obama race I was open to the idea that Obama might be a "new" kind of politician, but now I am not. Not just because of the campaign finance issue, but a series of disappointments on his part. I am still hoping McCain is not the Republican Party nominee.

I also think that if Democrats knew in February what is known now about Obama, he would not be the Democratic Party nominee. In answer to your question, I don't think Obama is being held to a higher standard.

__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion."
"If you live among wolves you have to act like one."
"A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

SirSeymour

Of course it is being "positioned" as highly principled. That is what politicians do...they "position" everything so that it appears advantageous to them. Unfortunately most of America seems to fall for it.

I'm sorry...I thought we were talking about financing his campaign and his opting out of accepting public money for it. Did I miss something?

__________________
SQL query
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0
Zero rows returned....

dc_dux

Here is what Obama pledged:

In February 2007, I proposed a novel way to preserve the strength of the public financing system in the 2008 election. My plan requires both major party candidates to agree on a fundraising truce, return excess money from donors, and stay within the public financing system for the general election.... I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election.

If you look deeper into his plan, it involved both candidates agreeing to public financing by the candidate AND voluntary limits on fund raising by the DNC and RNC, particularly soliticing big money donors, on behalf of the respective candidates (in part for self-serving reasons since the RNC has historically been much better fund raisers than the DNC).

And here is what happened:

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

ratbastid

I posted that in the wrong thread. Sorry for the confusion.

SirSeymour

No worries. I thought that might be the case after reading the other thread.

__________________
SQL query
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0
Zero rows returned....