The terrorists have won (again) - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

kutulu · 05-30-2008, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthew330

a - scold him
b - direct him
c - dismiss him

The only thing that changes is the responder. Would I have been allowed to say, "Michelle Malkin is fuckin crazy and so is the conservativeland mentality that scared their followers into being intimidated by this.

save it...seriously. your responses are "tiresome".

Oh please, what kind of a response do you expect when you toss out a strawman like that?

matthew330 · 05-30-2008, 05:43 PM

oh please, where was the debate to strawman in the first place, i just thought i'd put things into perspective. truth be told, i do get some enjoyment out of the responses. for the most part i'm ignored, but i can always count on pissing someone off enough they can't resist.

FoolThemAll · 05-30-2008, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthew330

i just thought i'd put things into perspective.

Into an extremely oversimplistic perspective. Tiresome replies to tiresome posts.

I could note the companion perspective that the Republican party has taken over the supposedly liberal artform of political correctness, but that'd be tiresome as well.

I need a nap.

Charlatan · 05-30-2008, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthew330

oh please, where was the debate to strawman in the first place, i just thought i'd put things into perspective. truth be told, i do get some enjoyment out of the responses. for the most part i'm ignored, but i can always count on pissing someone off enough they can't resist.

So you admit to being here just to troll?

matthew330 · 05-30-2008, 07:29 PM

GENIUS!! call it what you want....call it strawman, call it tinfoil hat around your ass, call it trolling...whatever floats your boat. I can't help it that an observation/simple opinion gets one of your little teammates all bent out of shape. It's not my intention, so I don't think it's trolling......you're responses are as entertaining as if they were though.

Sorry to derail this thread from it's original intent....which was, I suppose, a very serious political exchange. My bad.

FoolThemAll · 05-30-2008, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthew330

Sorry to derail this thread from it's original intent....which was, I suppose, a very serious political exchange. My bad.

I'd agree that this wasn't exactly an earth-shaking event, but you managed to lower the level of discourse a few notches nonetheless. That's skill.

Charlatan · 05-30-2008, 07:57 PM

Actually, your point about Dunkin' Donuts response being a form of bending to "poitical correctness" is an interesting point. Your general attitude is what sucks. As for the troll comment, I was reacting directly to your comment that you enjoy pissing people off...

In retrospect, I was wrong.

Quite frankly, I am not sure that Dunkin Donuts' response can be so easily equated to so-called political correctness. Would you call the whole "freedom fries" issue a form of political correctness? From my point of view, I see the two non-events coming from the same reactionary source.

Whereas, I see the so-called politically correct movement as rising out of a minority attempting to control how they are defined by mass culture (i.e. blacks demanding they be called African American rather than Negro or Nigger).

From where I am sitting, Malkin's efforts seek to reinstate the monolithic control of cultural definitions in the face of a diversity of definitions.

What do you think Matthew?

reconmike · 05-30-2008, 08:40 PM

I think it is just another way that coporation is bending to the PC, (pussifaction) of the country. Be it on the right or left it happens. Be it PETA, Malkin, or any other fringe
Enough people bitching and the caving begins.

I really couldn't care less if Ray wore a burka to hawk those deep fried heart attacks with yummy glaze. But it is the companies decision who hawks what.

As for Malkin, sometimes she is wayyy out there in rightland, and some things she says make sense, just like all the other talking heads on tube.

Charlatan · 05-30-2008, 08:59 PM

Recon... do you think it's the job of a corporation to piss off it's customers in the face of controversey?

From what I can see, they are caught in an awkward position. They can remove the ads and face the ire of those who see this as bending to the will of an extreme minority or they can leave the ad on and face the ire of Malkin and the increasingly negative media coverage (this includes all forms of media).

In their shoes, I would pull the ad as there is no upside to keeping it on air. Pulling it, they will get a ton of coverage (hell, I was reading about this in South East Asia in the daily paper and we don't even have their Donuts here) for free and the vast majority of the negativity is aimed a Malkin rather than Dunkin Donuts. In the end, the controversey will pass and those who were irate about the weakness of the Corporation in the face of outside pressue will move onto something else (as will those who complained to start with).

It is this, that makes me call this a non-event. Nobody really cares what the fuck she is wearing around her neck. This really is all about Malkin as an attention whore.

reconmike · 05-30-2008, 09:10 PM

Charlatan, the corporation's only goal is to make money, they had no choice but to pull it. I am sure they looked at their demographics and they know who buys their product.

Once Malkin got them all fired up it was over, and yes she is quite the attention whore.

matthew330 · 05-30-2008, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

Actually, your point about Dunkin' Donuts response being a form of bending to "poitical correctness" is an interesting point. Your general attitude is what sucks. As for the troll comment, I was reacting directly to your comment that you enjoy pissing people off...

In retrospect, I was wrong.

Quite frankly, I am not sure that Dunkin Donuts' response can be so easily equated to so-called political correctness. Would you call the whole "freedom fries" issue a form of political correctness? From my point of view, I see the two non-events coming from the same reactionary source.

Whereas, I see the so-called politically correct movement as rising out of a minority attempting to control how they are defined by mass culture (i.e. blacks demanding they be called African American rather than Negro or Nigger).

From where I am sitting, Malkin's efforts seek to reinstate the monolithic control of cultural definitions in the face of a diversity of definitions.

What do you think Matthew?

Well this is no fun...but okay

"freedom fries" has nothing to do with political correctness - it's intent, albeit lame, was Americans (its fast food anyway) thumbing its nose at the french (dare I say...irony) when they were being dicks.

The African American/Negro analogy as it relates to the "so-called" politically correct movement is outdated at least as of 1997 (PCU release? - memory may be off a little bit). There's much more to it than that. The lefts version of this movement (as if theres any other besides this thread topic) has gotten ridiculously out of hand, which is why i find the reaction so.....entertaining. If you didn't see the truth in that I don't think you'd find my point the least bit interesting, which is why I think your african american analogy is a bit of a cop-out.

So there's gotta be more to it - why do you find my point interesting, Charlatan?

Charlatan · 05-30-2008, 09:31 PM

Perhaps, as a non-American, I am bit out of date on the meaning and intent of the "politically correct" movement. Can you bring me up to speed? I think this would be a difficult conversation to have if we don't share the same definitions, no?

host · 05-31-2008, 12:42 AM

It seems candidate McCain's own daughter, with her mother's approval, has inserted herself in the midst of this controversy, and it is a 20 years old issue, in the US....

From Meghan McCain's blog:

Quote:

http://mccainblogette.com/arcs/021908.shtml

<img src="http://mccainblogette.com/docs/postings/021908/10.jpg">

<img src="http://mccainblogette.com/docs/postings/021908/11.jpg">

<img src="http://mccainblogette.com/docs/postings/021908/14.jpg">

<img src="http://mccainblogette.com/docs/postings/021908/17.jpg">

Rachel Ray:
<img src="http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/files/images/080528_ray.jpg">

A Year Ago:

Quote:

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/fashio..._is_behind.php

Times Is Behind the Times With Keffiyeh Trend
Posted by Jessie Pascoe at 6:51 PM, February 13, 2007

<img src="http://mfad.typepad.com/crit/images/keffiyeh3.jpg">
(From <a href="http://mfad.typepad.com/">here</a>)

Apparantly the keffiyeh's very "in" these days. In the Times' Sunday Style section, Kibum Kim notes Urban Outfitters' decision to sell the military scarf popularized by Yasser Arafat. A call later regretted since the scarf was pulled " '[d]ue to the sensitive nature of this item'." Kim diggs into the past of this controversial accessory:

For those with a long memory, the current kaffiyeh craze may seem familiar. The scarves became a fashion statement in the United States at the start of the first intifada in 1987. In 1988, CBS News and Time magazine chronicled the trend. In a 1992 Michigan Quarterly Review article about the kaffiyeh's modern history, Dr. Swedenburg wrote about how a "sign of Palestinian struggle suddenly appeared in the ensembles of 'downtown' U.S.A., together with black turtlenecks, ripped Levi's, high-top sneakers and eight-zippered black leather jackets."
In its 2007 revival, the kaffiyeh has similar sidekicks. "It's hipster 101: I need my skinny jeans, some sort of scarf and a beat up T-shirt," Ms. Hukahori said. "O.K., I'm a hipster now."

20 Years Ago:

Quote:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...967046,00.html
Monday, Mar. 21, 1988
Scarves And Minds Kaffiyehs from the Middle East warm up March winds
By JAY COCKS

The pronunciation is tricky. So are the provenance and political implication of the scarf on sale from sidewalk vendors all over the East Coast. Say ka- fee-a, and the sound will be right. Wear the large, brightly checked square of cotton around the neck, shawl style over the shoulders or wrapped around the head, and the look will be perfect 1988 American street style. It is also what millions of Americans see on their TV screens practically every night, worn by Palestinians defying Israeli soldiers in the occupied territories.

There are indications that the kaffiyeh style, now competing with running shoes as hot dress-down items in New York City and Washington, is spreading ever westward. When Herman Ruether, interim director of the Chicago-based Palestine Human Rights Campaign, heard that the kaffiyeh was becoming fashionable, he said, "I started talking to people at random." The results of Ruether's informal poll: only three out of ten people cited politics as their reason for wearing the scarf. He adds, however, that during the most & recent episodes of violence in Israeli-occupied areas, his office received a large number of calls from Americans sympathetic to the Palestinian cause inquiring where kaffiyehs could be bought.

Long a staple of the Middle East tourist trade and a basic component of wardrobes in the Levant, the kaffiyeh came to the U.S. via Europe, where, in all its checkered permutations (black, blue, green, red or purple on white), it is almost as ubiquitous among the young as fatigue jackets. Yasser Arafat has worn a kaffiyeh, usually with army duds, for 20 years now, and the scarf became a garment of choice among the political protesters and antimissile advocates of the '70s and early '80s. Fashion, of course, mutes political reverberation. With time the kaffiyeh became politically neutral and lost some of its freshness. But the current televised spectacle of kaffiyeh-wearing rebels playing hob with the Israeli army gives the scarves an odd, often ironic resonance when they are worn in the West. Visual continuity suggests a political solidarity that usually comes as a big surprise to the Western wearer. "It's just an accessory," says Kenneth Kaiser, a Boston retail- clothing-store manager. "The ethnic type of look is in right now." "The idea that it's political is ridiculous," says New York City Artist Steven Charny. Comments Mordechai Levy, head of the Jewish Defense Organization in New York City: "Now there are so many, they are just like any other scarf."...

Baraka_Guru · 05-31-2008, 05:42 AM

Does anyone else see it as I do? Through this controversy, we are raising the profile of this fashion statement. This makes it more fashionable. More people will do it. It will appropriate the meaning and significance of this article, rendering it to a hipster's accessory to wear in the clubs or on a terrace while they eat watercress sandwiches and sip cosmos for lunch.

This will be a victory for the imperialist dogs.

TheNasty · 05-31-2008, 07:51 AM

This whole thing is just dumb.

The Nazi's wore pants when they built murder camps, pants are bad!

One of the terrorists who participated in 9-11 wore glasses, glasses are for terrorists!

ratbastid · 05-31-2008, 08:32 AM

I'd hit that. (Sorry Will. But I would.)

This post probably puts me on a Secret Service watch-list of some kind.

Ilow · 05-31-2008, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

I'd hit that. (Sorry Will. But I would.)

This post probably puts me on a Secret Service watch-list of some kind.

Good thing I have my tin-foil hat on, they would almost certainly not like what I am thinking...

MSD · 05-31-2008, 01:59 PM

What I don't understand is why they would have her wear a scarf that doesn't really match her shirt, while drinking an iced coffee, in front of a spring-themed back drop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlish

not sure if any of you guys picked it out, but shes definately wearing keffiyeh

I didn't know they made those in paisley.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

Does anyone else see it as I do? Through this controversy, we are raising the profile of this fashion statement. This makes it more fashionable. More people will do it. It will appropriate the meaning and significance of this article, rendering it to a hipster's accessory to wear in the clubs or on a terrace while they eat watercress sandwiches and sip cosmos for lunch.

This will be a victory for the imperialist dogs.

I'm for anything that pisses off hipsters.

ratbastid · 05-31-2008, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSD

I didn't know they made those in paisley.

Or that they're worn around the neck...

If you showed me that picture of Rachel and said, "Is she wearing a traditional arab headdress?" I believe my answer would be NO.

Ilow · 05-31-2008, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

Or that they're worn around the neck...

If you showed me that picture of Rachel and said, "Is she wearing a traditional arab headdress?" I believe my answer would be NO.

Not only that, but if you said, "what else does this scarf resemble?" Traditional Arab headdress would be probably number 10,000 on the list, if I ever got there.

Redlemon · 06-01-2008, 06:27 AM

I'm only here to be useless, sorry.

But I stole this off BoingBoing:

It might be Photoshopped, kind of hard to tell.

Charlatan · 06-01-2008, 04:13 PM

MSD · 06-01-2008, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlemon

I'm only here to be useless, sorry.

But I stole this off BoingBoing:

It might be Photoshopped, kind of hard to tell.

#2 Photoshop mistake: not matching matching brightness/contrast.

Derwood · 06-02-2008, 05:59 AM

A quick read through her Wikipedia article tells you all you need to know. She's an Asia-American who wrote a book defending Japanese Internment camps in WWII.

Ilow · 06-02-2008, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derwood

A quick read through her Wikipedia article tells you all you need to know. She's an Asia-American who wrote a book defending Japanese Internment camps in WWII.

This is true, but even that probably doesn't adequately capture her apparent insanity. On the plus side, she is hot...

The_Jazz · 06-02-2008, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilow

This is true, but even that probably doesn't adequately capture her apparent insanity. On the plus side, she is hot...

Any residual hotness she may (or may not) have is immediately overrided by the "Oh My God, Would You Shut The Fuck Up" factor.

loquitur · 06-02-2008, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlemon

I'm only here to be useless, sorry.

But I stole this off BoingBoing:

It might be Photoshopped, kind of hard to tell.

Yeah, Rachel Ray is hot. Even Osama has his hand in his crotch around her.

Tully Mars · 06-02-2008, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Jazz

Any residual hotness she may (or may not) have is immediately overrided by the "Oh My God, Would You Shut The Fuck Up" factor.

Sorry I can't look at her and not see "ugly to the bone."

Ilow · 06-02-2008, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

Sorry I can't look at her and not see "ugly to the bone."

I actually misread Derwood's post at first too, and I'm glad I wasn't the only one! He was referring to Malkin, not Rachael Ray. Ray is half Sicilian, half Cajun, not at all Asian, and I doubt she could adequately explain the WWII Japanese internment camps if you gave her all day and two million bucks! Malkin is not bad looking for a freakin insane neo-con wacko.

05-30-2008, 07:57 PM	#47 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Actually, your point about Dunkin' Donuts response being a form of bending to "poitical correctness" is an interesting point. Your general attitude is what sucks. As for the troll comment, I was reacting directly to your comment that you enjoy pissing people off... In retrospect, I was wrong. Quite frankly, I am not sure that Dunkin Donuts' response can be so easily equated to so-called political correctness. Would you call the whole "freedom fries" issue a form of political correctness? From my point of view, I see the two non-events coming from the same reactionary source. Whereas, I see the so-called politically correct movement as rising out of a minority attempting to control how they are defined by mass culture (i.e. blacks demanding they be called African American rather than Negro or Nigger). From where I am sitting, Malkin's efforts seek to reinstate the monolithic control of cultural definitions in the face of a diversity of definitions. What do you think Matthew? __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

05-30-2008, 08:40 PM	#48 (permalink)
reconmike Thank You Jesus Location: Twilight Zone	I think it is just another way that coporation is bending to the PC, (pussifaction) of the country. Be it on the right or left it happens. Be it PETA, Malkin, or any other fringe Enough people bitching and the caving begins. I really couldn't care less if Ray wore a burka to hawk those deep fried heart attacks with yummy glaze. But it is the companies decision who hawks what. As for Malkin, sometimes she is wayyy out there in rightland, and some things she says make sense, just like all the other talking heads on tube. __________________ Where is Darwin when ya need him?

05-30-2008, 08:59 PM	#49 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Recon... do you think it's the job of a corporation to piss off it's customers in the face of controversey? From what I can see, they are caught in an awkward position. They can remove the ads and face the ire of those who see this as bending to the will of an extreme minority or they can leave the ad on and face the ire of Malkin and the increasingly negative media coverage (this includes all forms of media). In their shoes, I would pull the ad as there is no upside to keeping it on air. Pulling it, they will get a ton of coverage (hell, I was reading about this in South East Asia in the daily paper and we don't even have their Donuts here) for free and the vast majority of the negativity is aimed a Malkin rather than Dunkin Donuts. In the end, the controversey will pass and those who were irate about the weakness of the Corporation in the face of outside pressue will move onto something else (as will those who complained to start with). It is this, that makes me call this a non-event. Nobody really cares what the fuck she is wearing around her neck. This really is all about Malkin as an attention whore. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

05-30-2008, 09:10 PM	#50 (permalink)
reconmike Thank You Jesus Location: Twilight Zone	Charlatan, the corporation's only goal is to make money, they had no choice but to pull it. I am sure they looked at their demographics and they know who buys their product. Once Malkin got them all fired up it was over, and yes she is quite the attention whore. __________________ Where is Darwin when ya need him?

05-30-2008, 09:31 PM	#52 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Perhaps, as a non-American, I am bit out of date on the meaning and intent of the "politically correct" movement. Can you bring me up to speed? I think this would be a difficult conversation to have if we don't share the same definitions, no? __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

05-30-2008, 05:43 PM	#42 (permalink)
matthew330 Banned	oh please, where was the debate to strawman in the first place, i just thought i'd put things into perspective. truth be told, i do get some enjoyment out of the responses. for the most part i'm ignored, but i can always count on pissing someone off enough they can't resist.

05-30-2008, 07:29 PM	#45 (permalink)
matthew330 Banned	GENIUS!! call it what you want....call it strawman, call it tinfoil hat around your ass, call it trolling...whatever floats your boat. I can't help it that an observation/simple opinion gets one of your little teammates all bent out of shape. It's not my intention, so I don't think it's trolling......you're responses are as entertaining as if they were though. Sorry to derail this thread from it's original intent....which was, I suppose, a very serious political exchange. My bad.

05-31-2008, 05:42 AM	#54 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	Does anyone else see it as I do? Through this controversy, we are raising the profile of this fashion statement. This makes it more fashionable. More people will do it. It will appropriate the meaning and significance of this article, rendering it to a hipster's accessory to wear in the clubs or on a terrace while they eat watercress sandwiches and sip cosmos for lunch. This will be a victory for the imperialist dogs. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

05-31-2008, 07:51 AM	#55 (permalink)
TheNasty Tilted	This whole thing is just dumb. The Nazi's wore pants when they built murder camps, pants are bad! One of the terrorists who participated in 9-11 wore glasses, glasses are for terrorists!

05-31-2008, 08:32 AM	#56 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	I'd hit that. (Sorry Will. But I would.) This post probably puts me on a Secret Service watch-list of some kind.

06-01-2008, 06:27 AM	#61 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	I'm only here to be useless, sorry. But I stole this off BoingBoing: It might be Photoshopped, kind of hard to tell. __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

06-01-2008, 04:13 PM	#62 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	__________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

06-02-2008, 05:59 AM	#64 (permalink)
Derwood Who You Crappin? Location: Everywhere and Nowhere	A quick read through her Wikipedia article tells you all you need to know. She's an Asia-American who wrote a book defending Japanese Internment camps in WWII.