allaboutmusic

I came into this section looking for a thread on recent political developments in Zimbabwe, and was surprised to find that there isn't one.

So here it is.

Basically, to anyone who's just tuned in to this programme, Zimbabwe recently had general elections. Prior to the elections, Zimbabwe was ruled by Robert Mugabe and his Zanu-PF party. It's probably fair to say that his rule has not been helpful to the people of Zimbabwe to put it mildly: inflation is at unreal levels (around 100,000%), people are having problems buying food, and Mugabe basically sends troops around demolishing homes in areas of the country who support the opposition. For a long time the Western world has publicly condemned Mugabe and his regime, but have really not anything substantial to intervene.

Fast forward to elections last month. For the first time, the Zanu-PF party lost its majority hold on the Zimbabwean assembly (97 of 210) to the opposition MDC (Movement for Democratic Change) party, who won 99 seats. It was also widely expected that Mugabe would be defeated by Morgan Tsangvirai (leader of the MDC) and lose his presidency. However, the results of the presidential election have yet to be announced.

Instead, Zanu-PF has delayed the release of the results. They have arrested a bunch of people for "undercounting" Zanu-PF votes. The suspicion is that they will call for a "run-off" between Mugabe and Tsangvirai, which is basically a second round of voting exercised when neither candidate has taken 50% of the vote. The opposition has expressed concerns (IMO very legitimate ones) that a campaign of intimidation and violence will be used by the government prior to any run-off, making a free and fair election impossible.

Somewhat disappointingly, no one in a position to do something about Mugabe seems to have any interest in doing anything. The West appear to have pretty much decided to leave it to neighbouring African countries to sort it out, but much of what has gone on appears to be those leaders trying not to get on Mugabe's bad side. It looks a lot like Gordon Brown and friends calling Thabo Mbeki (South African president) and saying "Could you talk to your friend?"

Frankly I think Mugabe is doing a lot more harm to his country than Saddam did to his. Saddam was a tyrant, to be sure, but he didn't appear to be going around systematically running Iraq into the ground the way Mugabe and his cronies are destroying Zimbabwe and its people.

(I've elected not to quote a dozen articles, but there is plenty of information on this on most news sites - start at the BBC News page if you want to do some reading)

Your thoughts.

MSD

The African Union should send in peacekeeping forces since there is overwhelming evidence of violent coercion and the UN should be asked by AU countries send in election monitoring officials, and peacekeepers if necessary.

healer

The situation in Zim has gotten me so pissed off. I would've shot Bob a long time ago if I was a Zimbabwean citizen with half a brain.

The fact that they STILL have not released the results of the election more than a week after the votes were counted just stinks of corruption, collusion, coercion and...cunts. (I couldn't think of another 'c' word)

As a South African citizen, I believe my country should be doing more to sort this mess out. But on the other hand, we've got our wn shit to deal with and Zim has been like a buddy we've had to bail out of jail for the last few decades.

Any result now will be shrouded in uncertainty. They've gone and fucked up their first chance in a long time to do something right.

__________________

Seanland

This is the world we live in today...

when was the last legit election?

The Nightfly

Italy, earlier today. No allegations of vote rigging or foul play as far as I can see.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7347618.stm

Surely some more stability in neighbouring Zimbabwe will be beneficial to South Africa though. I'm in no way saying that this is South Africa's responsibility to sort out, if anything it's the responsibility of the AU or even the UN. This looks like the golden opportunity to start to turn Zimbabwe's fortunes around. When you refer to 'them' fucking up their chance, do you mean Zimbabwe? It seems to me more like the AU/UN failing to back Zimbabwe up with any meaningful help at this critical time.

It's a bit like finally making a stand against the prick at school who bullies you, then finding that all your friends have just slinked off and left you to deal with it yourself - which is next to impossible.

allaboutmusic

Do you mean in Zimbabwe, or in the world? If you mean the world, then I know what you mean... this is on a different scale though.

This would be like George W Bush deciding to stay in power beyond his two terms, then in this election, withholding polling results, demanding "recounts" in States where he hasn't won, announcing that there will be a second round, and then demolishing cities in States that he didn't win in... all after making it impossible for 90% of the country to buy food or work.

Dubya is no saint, but Mugabe makes him look like the Angel of God himself.

I don't think it should fall to South Africa to take sole responsibility for this. They aren't getting the support they need from the rest of the world. If Zimbabwe had oil we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Another interesting article today about South Africa's involvement:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7335569.stm

UKking

In case you didnt know, Robert Mugabe, 'elected' leader of the country since 1980, sucks.
However, despite all the failsafe's he's put into place to ensure his continued 're-election,' people seem to dispise him enough to make 2008's presidential election turn sour for him. He might finally be dethroned. The election result is still 'unclear,' so until the results are clarified, he's upping the ante.

Seriously, screw this guy.

Willravel

Seconded. I'm not going to say that the West hasn't fucked with the guy, but he's rather a serious problem when it comes to regional stability. It's good to know that people understand him to be more than just a (Bush War) revolutionary hero.

allaboutmusic

mixedmedia

__________________
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UKking

I guess the difference here is the measure of what political economic gain there is to be had from 'intervention.'
(Which is ironic, looking at Iraq's outcome...)

loquitur

Mugabe does what he does because he knows he can get away with it. He's a damn thug, and a corrupt one at that. I have no clue why Mbeki enables his misbehavior.

dksuddeth

this would normally be where I inject the usual 'if the people had arms' thing....but i'm tired of it falling on deaf ears.

__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

Jinn

Zimbabwe's Stark Choice: Vote for Mugabe or Starve
http://abcnews.go.com/International/...5015081&page=1

How do they still get away with shit like this!?

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

dksuddeth

who's going to stop them?

__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

loquitur

What's the point of this, anyway? So that the ZANU-PF can continue to rule a country that is miserable and starving? It's like goddam Paradise Lost - better to rule in hell than to serve in heaven. F***in' Mugabe.

Strange Famous

Mugabe is finished, and he knows it.

He is old and tired and knows the country is in chaos and just wants to find a way out. The problem is too many people have a vested interest in him and are afraid of the revenge they will face if the regime collapses - so the nightmare continues. Mugabe is still peddling the same anti-colonialist rhetoric which is now badly out of date, and his people are starving are terrorised by the military.

Bit of a mess really.

Someone would have intervened a while ago if there was any oil there.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

allaboutmusic

Not sure if you can view this outside the UK, but if you are at all concerned about this issue, this documentary is a must-watch.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/page/item/b00cbqng.shtml

And I suppose it was inevitable.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7467990.stm

I really hope someone can step in and do something. It's really not right.

Paq

dammit, you beat me to the link...

i'm so disgusted i can't even type out, just marking for updates on this thread...omg...disgusted

__________________
Live.

Chris

UKking

Mugabe is sworn in for sixth term

UKking

To put a little perspective on this string of events, Mugabe's crew decided that a good form of persuasion would be burning the opposition's wives alive.
It's hard to stay strong in the face of that threat, so I definitely understand Tsvangirai withdrew.

Even though it's just symbolic, at least he's not knighted anymore.

My most potent spew of vitriol is not enough for Mugabe. I just can't give justice to how much this guy sucks.

roachboy

for what it's worth, i'm in the camp of those who are following this farce but are too disgusted to post about it.

soon maybe.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Miss Mango

In an amazing undercover video, a prison officer in Zimbabwe showed exactly how the recent presidential election was rigged. This video gives a rare view inside Zimbabwes prisons and the hundreds of political prisoners interred there.

Video: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/vide...ction.zimbabwe

News story: http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa...l?iref=topnews

Miss Mango

Though the election is over and the old regime is sworn in again, the ZANU-PF militias continue to operate, per Mugabe\'s wishes. It seems that, among other crimes, holding sex slaves is commonplace on their bases.

dksuddeth

http://mwcnews.net/content/view/23778&Itemid=1

Robert Mugabe and the Second Amendment
by Jacob G. Hornberger

A front-page article in last Saturday’s Washington Post detailed an inside account of how Zimbabwe’s thuggish president Robert Mugabe ensured his victory in the country’s recent presidential run-off election. The account provides a good refresher course on why our American ancestors enshrined the right to keep and bear arms in the Second Amendment — and why they so detested standing military forces within their own country.

Having garnered less votes than his opponent in the general election, Mugabe, who has held power for almost 30 years, was contemplating dropping out of the race. Afraid of losing their lucrative government positions, however, loyal government bureaucrats, including many of Mugabe’s military goons, convinced him to keep fighting.

Mugabe and his advisors came up with an interesting campaign plan known as CIBD, which stood for coercion, intimidation, beating, and displacement. Led by Mugabe’s loyal military forces, his goons embarked on a violent and brutal campaign of murder, torture, and beatings designed to intimidate the opposition.

The plan worked, causing Mugabe’s opponent, Morgan Tsvangirai, to drop out of the race, delivering the runoff victory to Mugabe. Despite the fact that his election to office is as illegitimate as an election could ever be, Mugabe has promised to remain in office until God removes him.

So, what do Zimbabweans do in this circumstance? Nothing, except pray for his removal from office.

Most everyone would agree that if there was ever a right of revolution — i.e., a violent overthrow of one’s own government — this is it. Unfortunately, however, Zimbabweans are precluded from exercising the right of revolution it owing to one big reason: gun control. Because they lack guns, Zimbabweans lack the means to oppose the armed government goons that do Mugabe’s bidding and keep him in power.

As our American ancestors understood so well — and as the situation in Zimbabwe is demonstrating, a disarmed citizenry inevitably becomes an obedient citizenry. It lacks the means to object when tyranny rears its ugly head.

Standing armies are inevitably loyal to their commanders, who are loyal to their political rulers. They will obey orders faithfully, especially when “national security” is at stake.

That’s why our American ancestors detested standing armies. They knew that all too often rulers would turn the guns of their military and police forces inward, against their own people. Equally important, they knew that the military and police would faithfully, loyally, and “patriotically” obey the orders of their superiors.

Thus, the central idea behind the Second Amendment was not to ensure that people could hunt deer or shoot burglars. It was instead to ensure that U.S. rulers were prohibited from depriving Americans of their “doomsday weapon” — a weapon that would always ensure that Americans would have the means to defend themselves from the tyranny of their very own government — yes, the federal government in Washington, D.C. That’s something that Zimbabweans are today unable to do owing to gun control in their country.

Some Americans claim that the Second Amendment is outmoded. They say that while U.S. personnel would do bad things to foreigners, they would never do bad things to Americans. Oh? You mean, like the way they tortured and sexually abused John Walker Lindh? Or the way they tortured, isolated, drugged, and brutalized Jose Padilla? Or the way they massacred people, including defenseless children, at Waco? Or the way they shot Vickie Weaver in the head, as she held her baby in her arms, and her teenage son in the back? Or the way they shot and killed antiwar demonstrators at Kent State? Or the way they rounded up Americans of Japanese descent and put them into concentration centers? Or the way they engaged in syphilis experiments with unsuspecting African-Americans?

The fact is that American human beings are no different from other human beings. Given a crisis environment where the fear of terrorism (or communism or whatever) is running rampant and U.S. officials are screaming that “national security” is at stake, U.S. rulers will always be able to find a certain segment of U.S. military forces and the CIA to carry out any orders against Americans, just as Robert Mugabe has. All the president would have to do is label any Americans he wants as dangerous “enemy combatants” — “terrorists” or “terrorist sympathizers” — and order the Pentagon and the CIA to take them into custody and treat them accordingly. If a Pentagon official or subordinate refused to carry out such orders, he would immediately be fired (or worse) and be replaced by an official who would faithfully carry out the orders of his commander in chief.

Would the Zimbabweans revolt against their government if they had guns? It’s impossible to know. As Jefferson pointed out in the Declaration of Independence, people will sometimes put up with lots of tyranny rather than suffer massive casualties in a violent revolution. At least the right to keep and bear arms provides people with the option of resistance to tyranny, an option that gun control has extinguished in Zimbabwe.

__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

UKking

Quality.

sound chaser

you know what, i never used to dislike Mugabe. i actually thought he was in the right at one stage. when zimbabwe was a colony, the british took land from the blacks to use for their own purposes. when zimbabwe became independent Mugabe signed a deal with the british to get the land back. the only thing bad now is that he's gone overboard, because he has little right to oppress his enemies and rig elections.

it's far more complex than "Mugabe is evil and oppressing his own people and took the land from the whites forcefull, the evil fuck!!" as a british person myself i guess it's one of the negative legacies of the Empire.

UKking

I must've missed some steps in between:

Mugabe and Tsvangirai sign power-sharing agreement?

I'm a tad confused....