pan6467

Let me ask a few somethings....

Have I told 1 person to shut the fuck up here?

Have I replied to a poster by calling them a name (fucking tool being an example)?

Have I talked down to, disrespected ANYONE in my replies unless it was a comeback to their attack?

Have I told anyone they wouldn't understand what I am saying?

Have I not answered most if not all posts I responded to with respect for their view and opinion, did I ever belittle 1 person?

Then why am I not entitled the same for mine? Just because you disagree with what I am saying does not mean I need to be told to shut he fuck up, does not mean I need to be called names, treat with disrespect and so on.

As far as high school debate, this would have been over as soon as Host told me to shut the fuck up, and so on.


Just asking because it seems to me, that you all tried very hard to silence my opinion outright, make me lose my temper and say something that would get me into trouble, or to make me look like something I'm not, so people wouldn't pay attention to the "dark underbelly" question I asked.

I would argue that as much as people stated they detested the idea they tried for 6 pages to silence my opinion, my views and my questions.

If true outrage had existed, if everything needing to be said had been said long ago, then why push it 6 pages? Why not let the old fucking tool (to use a MOD's name for me) talk to himself and let the thread die?

Yeah...... this isn't relevant at all and I'm a fuckin tool, and I'm slow and can't get your view and meanings.....

I'm not playing martyr just pointing the fact that when given the chance to let this die...... some couldn't... instead they had to keep trying to "catch me up in something" so they could validate their views of me thus the message and opinion wouldn't be worth hearing.... they didn't do it.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Willravel

Followed by...

silent_jay

You're seriously calling someone else small minded? You who hasn't looked at one fuckin thing we've said for what is it 4 or 5 threads now. Pot meet kettle, kettle this is pot.
Well why not sat that in the OP then, there you stated race had no part of this, nothing the fuck at all, you said it was an abuse of power, now suddenly it's just racist, so which is it?
You see pan, you don't even know why you're starting these threads, racism, abuse of power, who the fuck knows, I doubt even you.
Really? You're threads haven't shown it, all I've seen is a hard on for the black man coming from you, nothing about sexual discrimination, nothing about sexual orientation, nothing about religion, but I have seen 4 or 5 threads about race from you, and that seems to be the only one you care about. I know you won't respond because you ignore me, oh well, probably for the best
The post said 'FOOL', you've already been told that so quit lying.

That's pan for you, makes a big death row speach and then says I'm not martyring myself, fuckin hilarious.

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

host

Did anybody look? Pretty graphic, (gruesome) huh?

SecretMethod70

perfect example here pan: it's a very simple thing to comprehend that roachboy wrote fool, and not tool, and that he removed it from his post. He was very forthright about those facts. Yet, for some reason, even simple things like that seem unable to reach you, and you continue to say, repeatedly, that he called you a tool.

If people here can't even get through to you on something so simple as what word was written, then how can anyone expect to have any productive discussion with you on more complex issues such as race?

And incidentally, by repeatedly ignoring almost everything that has been written as a counterpoint to your posts, you are disrespecting the posters who have taken a lot of time to reply to you. That's where their frustration and anger comes from. I'd rather imagine that you're brain simply doesn't work in the same way as the people with opposing views, and that you're not ignoring their points, but simply not comprehending them in the same way. Trust me, that's a much more positive view than thinking you're simply ignoring everyone here. It's also not an insult, despite the fact you seem to take it as such. Like I wrote in my previous post: more and more studies are showing that there are fundamental differences in the psychological and biological workings of people's brains with respect to political inclinations. Just recently, I read an article about the correlation between dopamine levels and the tendancy to view the world in more black and white, leading to a tendancy toward conservative viewpoints. It doesn't make you any less of a person to be incapable of comprehending the words in the way they were intended, it just means it's a waste of time for people to continue writing those words when you've shown over and over that somewhere between their brain and yours, the meanings of the words change or get lost almost entirely.

No one is trying to "silence" you. If people wanted to silence you, they'd completely ignore you and let your threads quickly fall off the front page. Instead, people have been trying to have discussions with you. I'm not sure why, because they've gone nowhere, but they're still trying. For at least a month, and over more than a couple threads, people have repeatedly explained to you that you are not responding in any way whatsoever to the things they post in response to you. But they're certainly not trying to silence you.

As for whether or not you have a victim complex, the fact these threads keep coming back to you is a strong indication, and you ought to recognize that anyone who is truly acting in such a manner is generally incapable of recognizing it in themselves, so you ought to listen to the fact that so many people are saying it, including people who had previously had respect for you. Nonetheless, no one is trying to catch you or silence you. They're trying to provide counterpoints to your statements, which you summarily ignore. And it's certainly inappropriate to go around claiming victory that "they didn't do it," as if the fact you're still wasting your own and our time posting in these threads is some indication that your statements are valid. Being strong-willed has nothing to do with validity - just ask George Bush.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

silent_jay

I took a look host, and fuck me that was crazy. I like Smart cars too, I wonder what they hit, must have been a tractor trailer to do that damage. Hey I just figured something out, those pics are more interesting than the topic of the thread, we should discuss the pics instead of this dribble.

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

host

The point is, silent_jay....this thread became, by about the second page, very similar to the "head on" traffic accident I linked to.

You experienced it, yourself. You are going by.....you don't want to look....but you end up looking...(posting), anyway.....

pan6467

I'm just as confused also.

I thought you and I and some others had some very good debates.... yet I find I'm told to shut the fuck up, pwned, a mod feels the need to call me a fucking tool, another mod tells me he doubts I will ever understand what he says....and so on.

I have shown nothing but respect for others opinions and have not degraded anyone's differing viewpoint and I sure as Hell didn't attack anyone personally now did I?

So why was it ok to attack my viewpoint and attack me personally. None of you know me personally, just my posts.... none of you have ever talked to me in person, sent me IM's back and forth to talk personally to me.... but you can attack me.

Even I pointed out when that I was wrong calling the judge racist and prejudiced, but his action to me was.

A lot has been made over the definition of prejudice..... only one definition was given here's the whole definition....


I would say that this judge's actions met some of those criteria.

Aw well..... I guess some truly just do not want to debate ideas and views and would rather come up with personal attacks and name calling.

It also says a lot on where TFP is headed. Not so long ago when someone attacked a person by telling the to shut the fuck up, or calling them a fucking tool.... would lead to warnings and such.

Instead, now it seems to be acceptable behavior as long as you are a mod or have a couple other mods doing it also.

Ok let's say he wrote fuckin fool.... that is different than tool how? Is it still not an attack?

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

silent_jay

And we're back to this train wreck being all about pan again. You have an issue with a mod, PM a fuckin Admin and talk to them, or another mod, do you not get that pissing and moaning about it and using the 'pity me' attitude is getting you nowhere? The word was FOOL you fucking fool, you were called a FOOL. You are acting like a fool, so no I don't see that as an insult at all, you've ignored so many people, myself included, it's a waste of time and you're thread is a waste of space.

Here pan, I'll make it easy, this is how you see yourself as a martyr:


I agree host, this is a train wreck, and I can't look away, it's better than the telly that's for sure, better than most comedies on telly as well.

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Absence makes the heart grow fonder

ratbastid

Here we go again.

Incidentally, when they're not writing in yellow, they're not speaking as mods. Mods get to have opinions. One thing I've noticed in the past is that people who have been unable to understand that distinction, end their tenure at TFP shortly thereafter. Sometimes they end it and sometimes they have it ended for them, but there's a strong correlation I've noticed with the act of conflating a mod's "non-mod" speech with a mod's "mod" speech. You could hear this like a threat (and that would be consistent with the victimization you're spewing). It's not a threat--I just want you to see the path you're walking here.

Ustwo

Awww host, do you feel no one is paying attention to your daily rants?

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

pan6467

You and I go way back....we've been here a long while.

Since when has "shut the fuck up" posts been acceptable?

Since when has calling someone a "fucking tool (fool)" been acceptable?

Since when have the attacks on me personally been acceptable.

Show me others where someone posted "shut the fuck up" and nothing happened.

Show me others where someone is called a "fucking tool (fool)" and nothing has happened. I know what I read and I can tell the difference between t and f ... but being called or calling one either is wrong and used to be punishable here. But who am I to tell someone he called me a fucking tool when he wants to say he called me a fucking fool?

Why has this become acceptable?

No, I'll have to be thrown out..... and as you see after 6 pages of trying disparately.... ya can't get me into the personal attack games nor shut me up.

This is way to far off the OP and I refuse to answer anymore unless someone wants to talk more about the OP and only the OP in this thread.....

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

silent_jay

Don't worry Ustwo, we'll still pay attention to your rants as well

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

host

THE WORLD'S SMALLEST VIOLIN:
<img src="http://www.buzzlife.com/forums/images/smilies/pityparty.gif">

silent_jay

The funny part is, you saying this shows you don't know the difference between an 'f' and a 't', you think you saw a 't' because that fits your victim complex much better that seeing an 'f', but in reality, the word was fool.
Oh pity me, I was attacked, pity me, please pity me, fuckin pity me I was attacked.
No one has it in for you as you see it like we're tryin g to get you banned or something, why is it always about you?

The OP in this thread was unclear from the time you started it, you said it wasn't about race, then made it about race while continuing to say it wasn't.

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

Willravel

The pwned thing was simply about trying to lighten up what I feel has become way too serious. It wasn't intended as an attack or anything of the sort. I was trying to calm things down. Perhaps I've failed in that. Still, I do think that EVERYONE should take a break from this thread, maybe go read a book or exercise and get their minds off it, and come back fresh. Clearly this thread is way too intense.

As for respecting others, a part of showing respect is listening. Speaking only for myself I feel that you've ignored quite a bit in this thread. Not only that, but you really, honestly are acting as a martyr in many of your posts in this thread which is what I was trying to get at in my post above.

Ustwo

You noticed that too? In the old days, no one would read much of what roachboy wrote and you had to point out to the mods when he did something like that, now no one gives a shit, not sure if anyone reads it though.

I think the 'unmoderated' politics board experiment has failed, but with Bill O'Rights quitting I can't say who I would trust to be a proper moderator at this point.

But interestingly while they call you are martyr sarcastically, I think you need to be aware, if you are not already what they really view as, and thats a Judas.

You were one of them and you betrayed them. You dared question the group think. For me they expect it and I've been called far worse here then you, but I've never been part of their religion, I was always an infidel.

Well I think you can consider yourself to be officially excommunicated from the TFP left, and you need to get out of the village before they get closer with the pitch forks and torches.

Don't worry to much, some of them can be quite reasonable once they leave the church here and head out into the other forums.

So pan my advice for what its worth, is let it pass, ignore the more trollish, focus on the reasonable and post more in sexuality where people forget their political affiliation

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

host

....and the band played on....
<img src="http://www.buzzlife.com/forums/images/smilies/pityparty.gif">

Willravel

Calm down with the "group think", Dr. Phil. You're acting like liberals and conservatives never agree on TFP. We do all the time, but those instances are less memorable because there's no ginormous debate with mud slinging and eventual bannings. You and I, seeming polar opposites, agree on things ranging from religion to abortion. We probably also agree on things not brought up in TFPolitics, too.

silent_jay

I find this amusing coming from you.

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

pan6467

I feel I answered and paid more attention to those like yours and Jinn Kai's that showed respect, didn't talk down to me, insult me and so on.... as I didn't have to do that to anyone.

I don't think I'm a martyr when 6 pages of attacks, being called a fuckin t/fool , talked down to, insulted, told I was pwnd... and so on.

All I did was point out what was said, which if you all of a sudden are allowed to tell me to shut the fuck up or call me a fucking t/fool and so on, why am I not allowed to react and allow myself to speak out how I feel about that without being called a martyr.

Will, views totally aside, if some of these posts directed at me were directed at you, how would you feel? What would you do?

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

roachboy

ok pan--i apologize for the fool remark.

but by the time i got to that level of exasperation, you had dodged the same argument 4 or 5 times.
and the argument was straightforward.

most of what i posted before had nothing of personal attack in them.
i went out of my way to distinguish what i was saying about the politics that i see informing you on this particular issue (but not on others) FROM a personal attack.

for some reason, you chose to interpret what i posted in EXACTLY the opposite direction, and used that to dodge the substance of the argument.

it was pointed out to you by a bunch of other folk besides myself that you had dodged the argument. you did the same with dc_dux for most of the thread. you did the same with silent jay. you did the same with host. you did the same with mixedmedia, with ratbastid. you have ignored the substance of EVERY critique of your position.

given that, i think that folk in the main have been pretty patient with this thread and your conduct in it...host was offended directly, reacted in a harsh manner, but at least explained himself. as for everyone else who has reacted in a negative manner toward you, i think you can see exactly how and why it happened simply by reading the thread. you brought this all down on yourself, pan--and i have no idea what motivated you to do it.


here's the deal as i see it: there are certain expectation that follow from starting a thread--they're minimal, but they're binding--one of them is that when you launch a thread, you are doing it because you want to launch a discussion.
discussion includes the possibility of disagreement.
it is assumed that if you disagree that you will explain yourself, and that in turn some rational responses to that explanation can be expected.

you have systematically ignored even that most minimal expectation about discussion in this thread.
you do not want to have a discussion.
you want to be told that your (mis)understanding of the situation that prompted the op is correct.
that's all you want to hear.
that's not a discussion--that's a monologue.
and the more pressure you came under to engage in an dialogue--because of the weakness of your own position--the pissier you got.
and the pissier you got, the more uncontrolled became your projections about others, about yourself.


edit:

this is *not* about any "group-think" as ustwo would have it--unless by "group-think" you mean historical accuracy and minimal logic--but if that's "group-think" and you've transcended that, where does that leave you?

it's not a good defense.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

silent_jay

You got called a fool once, not for 6 pages, no one attacked you for 6 pages, quit exageratting.

How do you think we all feel pan with you ignoring everything we say for 6 pages? I've shown proof you said this thread wasn't about race, yet you keep bringing race into it, and what did you do with my proof? Ignored it, didn't even show me the respect of answering why you lied in ther first part of the thread, even after I respectively gave my opinion of the OP, fuck I was the first response you couldn't fuckin miss it. But of course if you admitted you changed the meaning of the thread to suit your needs, well you wouldn't want to do that.

I'll show you ONE more time, give you one more chance to respond and explain:
So you see it's about abuse of power, apparently.
When you use the word 'Racist' in you thread title pan, guess what your threads about? That's right....race.
And pan starts bring race into the discussion all the while telling us it isn't about race, then changing to 'no one wants to discuss the dark underbelly'.

So you see pan, it's all there right in front of you, this thread was doomed from the time you hit submit because you had no fuckin clue what you were on about.

Ignore this if you will, I could care less, just wanted to show you it was you who sent this thread down the shitter because you weren't honest with what the thread was about.

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

mixedmedia

Here, you can use mine:

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

roachboy

judas?

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Willravel

It depends on from whom the comments came, really. I'm used to name calling and such from some people on TFP, but there are a lot of members from which it would likely mean that I need to examine what I'm saying or doing.

If host ever posted in response to something I wrote in the way he did on page 1, (after I was finished crying) I'd really have to sit back and reexamine what I was trying to say because I know that while host can be somewhat passionate about things from time to time, generally I find myself agreeing with him most of the time. And it's not about backing off of something I feel passionately about. Host and I debated seriously about abortion and father's rights and I found that I had to reexamine what I was saying several times to make sure that what I was posting was not only honestly what I feel but that it made sense. And I've made plenty of nonsensical points on TFP, believe you me. It's because I know that my fellow board members are honest with me that I am so open to learn here. If I say something stupid, even my best TFP friend will call me on it and they won't pull any punches.

Do I agree with "shut the fuck up"? Not really. I agree with the message but not the method by which it was delivered. Same thing with "fool". I'm surprised, though, that instead of self reflection those inspired you to basically lock down completely. DC_Dux practically had to take a jackhammer to get you to admit that you don't actually know most of what you're basing your opinion on.

pan6467

This maybe true.

I do ignore the trollish.... seems Silent Jay can do nothing but want to snip out parts and play games..... Silent.... you are being ignored.

Host I have been ignoring for awhile. Seems he has to find Bush and the GOP behind everything.

In fact had you not quoted the "Shut the Fuck Up" from him.... I'd have never seen it.

It kind of sucks to want to talk politics and have debates with respect and as friends when you are neither truly far left nor right. Both extremist sides are too eager to personally attack and flame and burn you rather than accept the challenge and truly talk about the issue. It's easy to become flustered and just want to attack back instead of staying lose to what the issue is and maintaining a composure and respect while those around you refuse to show the same respect.

I did this once to you UsTwo.... you and I may not be of the same political mind but I appologize.... I am sorry I never gave you a chance to show your true opinions, before attacking you shamelessly and putting you on a defensive.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

SecretMethod70

Indeed. I saw the post before it was edited too, and I distinctly remember it being "fool."

Pan: ratbastid has it right when he points out mods are entitled to opinions as well. I can't help but notice the striking similarity though: a judge chooses to express a private opinion to a select group of people after rendering a verdict and you see it as inappropriate and prejudiced; some mods express opinions which are somewhat heated but refrain from using their position as mod in any way, yet you take particular issue that mods are expressing these opinions. I'm not sure what to take from the similarity, I just thought it was worth noting.

There are nearly 30 mods on the site (with varying levels of activity), with political and social views ranging from conservative to liberal. If you don't like something about what the 4 mods in this thread have said, or how they have or have not moderated something someone else said, you can pick from 25 other mods to message and ask for an uninvolved opinion. Or you could message all of them. I honestly don't really care which, and I encourage you to do it. We're all human, and we all make mistakes, etc etc etc, but if you don't bring what you view as a mistake to the attention of one of the mods who isn't already involved here, then nothing is ever going to happen.

To be perfectly frank, if this had been your first thread of this type, I would have done something about a number of the posts in here. But after a month of typing to a wall, I can't blame anyone for the occasional outburst, and I don't think it appropriate to warn someone for getting frustrated in entirely understandable circumstances (and I let things slide all the time all over the site for this reason, it has nothing to do with the fact I happen to be somewhat involved in these threads).

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Ustwo

If only more of your posts were so mercifully short and so on topic without extraneous and contradictory links.

Good job.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

host

SecretMethod70

That you so persistently cling to the possibility that he used the word "tool" is evidence alone that there is a difference between the two. Otherwise, you'd drop the long-ago debunked "tool" and be arguing strictly on the basis of being called a "fool."

Not to mention: he quickly edited it out. I can't think of a single time when someone has even gotten a sterm PM when they self-moderated soon after the fact.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Jinn

Can we lock this? It's evident discussion stopped pages ago.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

silent_jay

My names Jay not silent. No games at all pan, ignore me if you like, everyone else can see you words and how you had no clue what the thread was about to start. I snip out parts because you can't kjeep a theme going for more than one post at a time it seems.
I find it amusing you see me as a troll, I guess you don't like being called out on the bullshit you type here, as I said before get some thicker skin pan, this martyr bullshit is getting old and tiring. I won't put you on ignore, I enjoy reading opinions that are different from my own(no matter how fucked up), guess you want a yes man and not someone who disagrees.

I second this motion lol

__________________
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

SecretMethod70

Yes.

And, now, pan, I'm using my moderating abilities. Not because I disagree with you, but because JinnKai is correct. This thread is going nowhere.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling