Willravel

Who do you think regulates smokes right now?

pan6467

Ahhhhh yes, "let us non smokers give government the control over people who do something that we don't do, that may kill them in 50 years."

Gotta love people GIVING rights over to the government on a silver platter.

Listen up slimebags (yes, you want to give your rights up fine.... give mine up your a slimebag in my eyes)........

WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK PAYS A HUGE CHUNK OF TAXES THAT YOU WILL END UP PAYING ALSO????????

What do you think government is going to do once they get smoking taken care of? They are going to come after your coffee (wait I don't drink coffee.... cool... fuck you coffee drinkers pay all those extra taxes) they will come after your sugar, your cooking/frying oils/sodas/botteled waters/ etc etc etc.

And they will sell you on how they are doing it for your own good health and to keep your health care payments down.

They will take away your fucking choices...... MEANWHILE, the rich fucks will be doing as they want because they can pay the taxes and they don't give a shit, because their health care will be better than anything you'll ever have.

MEANWHILE, the black market for these items will increase immensely, funding crime.

MEANWHILE, things that they already made illegal (drugs, guns, aliens) and can't regulate and control will be hitting our streets and poisoning our youth and hurting our economy/ healthcare systems/ crime rates/ etc at exponentially faster rates than cigarettes EVER would.

So get those warm fuzzies and keep telling yourself that laws like these and going after those you have issues with because of things they may do LEGALLY that you do not approve of is great.

But excuse my giddiness and my laughing and sheer exuberance when they pass laws against something you like.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

smoore

This is a great thread. I'm chortling through my clouds of RYO smoke. I've rolled my own smokes for 10 years now and have dodged every direct tax increase since. I roll 60+ smokes of Bali Shag (a luxury brand) with a filter on each one for $6 in 2008. That's 1987 pricing for tailor mades. If I were willing to drop to the quality level of Camel or Marlboro I could roll those 60 for $3, probably less. I'm not willing to drop my standards but the libfascist price increases have not affected me very much.

Should the US govt. regulate tobacco? Probably. Should kids be kept from smoking? Definitely! Why can't I smoke in a bar again? Oh wait, the "common good"!

Booze and smoking go together like, well... booze and smoking. WTF? Bar employees need to have a better quality of life? They work in a fucking BAR! They are almost unilaterally alcoholics. Fuck 'em! Let them get jobs in construction if they want to live healthy. Early to bed, early to rise...

So I'm bringing down the standard of living by smoking a legal product in my home, BARS and other businesses that support my habit? So what? You cannot simultaneously campaign for a strong environmental policy "for the planet" and any policy that keeps more of us stomping around on the planet any longer than necessary.

I'm helping by smoking. Sure, you'll pay a little in public health care to ventilate me for awhile, right up until Dr. Death comes through the door and gives me my overdose of barbiturates. Anyone against assisted suicide for smokers?

See you in hell.

Excellent point. Perhaps I should start experimenting with growing the "Red Man's Revenge" now before it becomes illegal.

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smoore

dc_dux

pan....your emotional illogical irrational rants always crack me up....especially when you SHOUT IN COLOR! It gives your argument soooooo much more credibility.

But then, I guess I'm the lead slimebag in this fight.... a badge I will wear with honor

I am curious....Are all the 600+ national, state and local organizations (pdf file) that support this bill slimebags or just the TFP supporters?

To the readers, I promise not to mention pan's namecalling again and again and again in my next 27 posts.

smoore....in contrast, you bring a new entertaining style to the political forum. We probably wont always agree, but I like it.

A belated welcome to TFP politics

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"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

Plan9

You get mad about seat belt laws, too?

...

Live free or die!

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

The_Jazz

I want MORE lead in my children's toys! I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!

Wow, I guess someone dug up Jonathon Swift, reanimated him, taught him how to use a computer and signed him up for TFP!

Either that, or this is the most unintentionally funny statement in the most unintentionally funny thread in Politics in a long time.

Coal miners ned a better quality of life? They work in a fucking coal mine! They almost all unilaterally want to die in explosions, roof collapses or from black lung!

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

samcol

This bill is a funny. It has the support of numerous anti-smoking and cancer groups, Hillary, Obama, and McCain, and big tobacco companies. I question anything supported by this group of characters.

What's even funnier is the very organization who is being given power to regulate these prodcuts doesn't even agree with the law.

Here's a brief summary of what the FDA commissioner doesn't like about this bill:
Sounds like another failed bill, but since the title says 'Family Smoking Prevention and Tobbaco Control Act' and the bills summary sounds find and dandy, it will show up as a + on progressive punch and look good for the proponents of this bill. What a joke.

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It's time for the president to hand over his nobel peace prize.

dc_dux

A Bush appointee towing the administration position on the bill....what a surprise!

Why is it so hard to accept that the overwhelming majority of medical and health-related associations believe its a good bill....not perfect, concessions were made to garner bi-partisan support...but a step in the right direction to ensure some quality control of the product and accountability of the manufacturers. Thats how the legislative process works.

But I understand why the Ron (Dr NO) Paul crowd consider it a failed bill before its even been enacted and implemented. Given their view of the role of government, I would expect nothing less.

Most Americans want some level of assurance of the quality of the products they consume and some level of truth in labeling of those products beyond the "good faith" word of manufacturers. It seems like a pretty reasonable expectation to me.

What I dont understand, because its completely baseless, is the inane argument that it will lead to banning cigarettes...then coffee, then sugar.....

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"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

Ustwo

So lets see......

Every remaining viable presidential candidate supports it on both sides....

The tobacco companies support it....

Its admitted 'flawed but all bills are flawed' ....

Net result = null

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

debaser

Two issues:

1. Shouldn't this fall under the ATF, not the FDA?

2. Am I the only one who will miss my Social Security when I retire?

Everyone who puts a cigarette to thier lips knows it is stupid. If they want to kill themselves slowly, let them.

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dksuddeth

The only thing they learned from the failure of prohibition is that people will ignore laws that deny them the freedoms to do what they want, hence the war on drugs.

why do you feel the need to have the government regulate peoples lives when people have a choice to do something or not?

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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

dc_dux

I think I've explained that already.

Most Americans (beyond the 10-12% of hard core libertarians) want some level of assurance of the quality of the products they consume and some level of truth in labeling of those products beyond the "good faith" word of manufacturers.

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"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

debaser

Do you also think the government should regulate all supplements?

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dc_dux

I think "truth in labeling" regulations for all supplements would be in the public interest.

Do you really have any idea of what you are ingesting now beyond the manufacturers claim?

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"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

dksuddeth

and helmet laws. down with the man.

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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

debaser

I don't smoke or use supplements, so I generally have a pretty good idea what goes in. My point is that the FDA has responsibility for things of nutritive value (food), and drugs that claim to have medicinal effect. The reason they don't regulate suppliments is that they do not fall into either of the above categories. Neither does tobacco. Smoking is bad, it says so on the package. Will smokers suddenly stop if they know there is ammonia in them? I doubt it...

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dksuddeth

the ATF used to be part of the treasury department, meaning that it only handled tax related issues and related regulation. Now, since the ATF has been rolled in to the DOJ, they handle tax regulation AND law enforcement. The FDA is now the only 'regulatory' agency for safety and health related regulations.

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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

dc_dux

I happen to agree with you on helmet and seatbelt laws.

One can make a reasonably informed choice after weighing the pros and cons of wearing helmets/seatbelts.

You cant make the same informed choice on products you consume if you dont know the content and quality of the product.

See the difference?

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"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

Baraka_Guru

This isn't about the accountability of the consumers; it's about the accountability of the manufacturers.

Full disclosure on the packaging of a harmful product is a common practice now.

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Plan9

Yeah! Progress is for the wealthy elite!

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

flstf

With the taxes that smokers pay and the billions payed in the lawsuits against the the tobacco companies I bet there is enough money to provide health care to all smokers with no additional premiums.

smoore

Heh, that was a tongue in cheek statement but seriously, WTF? I understand banning smoking in offices, train stations, stadiums, etc. Places where people gather together to do things other than smoke and drink. But BARS? It really blows my mind.

re: On Topic conversation: I can see why the FDA doesn't want the job, although nicotine is a drug it's not a helpful one. *IF* we are going to do this I want an existing agency to take care of it and they most closely fit the bill. We sure don't need another bureaucratic subsystem leeching money through inefficiency.

Smokers aren't going to quit and that's probably a good thing overall. It's a tax on the poor and misinformed (edit) or addicted (/edit) and if everyone suddenly quit tomorrow there would be a LOT of revenue that needed to come from somewhere else. The tax in question here is levied fully on ~20% of the population so it's easy to get it increased through the mainly non-smoking public.

Tax junk food next. I'd be willing to pay twice or three times what a candy bar is actually worth, who's with me?

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smoore

flstf

I saw on the news yesterday that there is a new study which shows cell phone useage to be worse for your health than smoking. And so it goes...