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Old 03-28-2008, 05:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
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John McCain, leading presidential candidate in recent polls, gives MAJOR SPEECH

Quote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/us...gewanted=print
March 26, 2008
Transcript
John McCain’s Foreign Policy Speech

The following is the text as prepared for delivery of Senator John McCain’s speech on foreign policy to the Los Angeles World Affairs Council, as provided by his presidential campaign.

When I was five years old, a car pulled up in front of our house in New London, Connecticut, and a Navy officer rolled down the window, and shouted at my father that the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor. My father immediately left for the submarine base where he was stationed. I rarely saw him again for four years. My grandfather, who commanded the fast carrier task force under Admiral Halsey, came home from the war exhausted from the burdens he had borne, and died the next day. In Vietnam, where I formed the closest friendships of my life, some of those friends never came home to the country they loved so well. I detest war. It might not be the worst thing to befall human beings, but it is wretched beyond all description. When nations seek to resolve their differences by force of arms, a million tragedies ensue. The lives of a nation's finest patriots are sacrificed. Innocent people suffer and die. Commerce is disrupted; economies are damaged; strategic interests shielded by years of patient statecraft are endangered as the exigencies of war and diplomacy conflict. Not the valor with which it is fought nor the nobility of the cause it serves, can glorify war. Whatever gains are secured, it is loss the veteran remembers most keenly. Only a fool or a fraud sentimentalizes the merciless reality of war. However heady the appeal of a call to arms, however just the cause, we should still shed a tear for all that is lost when war claims its wages from us.

I am an idealist, and I believe it is possible in our time to make the world we live in another, better, more peaceful place, where our interests and those of our allies are more secure, and American ideals that are transforming the world, the principles of free people and free markets, advance even farther than they have. But I am, from hard experience and the judgment it informs, a realistic idealist. I know we must work very hard and very creatively to build new foundations for a stable and enduring peace. We cannot wish the world to be a better place than it is. We have enemies for whom no attack is too cruel, and no innocent life safe, and who would, if they could, strike us with the world's most terrible weapons. There are states that support them, and which might help them acquire those weapons because they share with terrorists the same animating hatred for the West, and will not be placated by fresh appeals to the better angels of their nature. This is the central threat of our time, and we must understand the implications of our decisions on all manner of regional and global challenges could have for our success in defeating it.

President Harry Truman once said of America, "God has created us and brought us to our present position of power and strength for some great purpose." In his time, that purpose was to contain Communism and build the structures of peace and prosperity that could provide safe passage through the Cold War. Now it is our turn. We face a new set of opportunities, and also new dangers. The developments of science and technology have brought us untold prosperity, eradicated disease, and reduced the suffering of millions. We have a chance in our lifetime to raise the world to a new standard of human existence. Yet these same technologies have produced grave new risks, arming a few zealots with the ability to murder millions of innocents, and producing a global industrialization that can in time threaten our planet.

To meet this challenge requires understanding the world we live in, and the central role the United States must play in shaping it for the future. The United States must lead in the 21st century, just as in Truman's day. But leadership today means something different than it did in the years after World War II, when Europe and the other democracies were still recovering from the devastation of war and the United States was the only democratic superpower. Today we are not alone. There is the powerful collective voice of the European Union, and there are the great nations of India and Japan, Australia and Brazil, South Korea and South Africa, Turkey and Israel, to name just a few of the leading democracies. There are also the increasingly powerful nations of China and Russia that wield great influence in the international system.

In such a world, where power of all kinds is more widely and evenly distributed, the United States cannot lead by virtue of its power alone. We must be strong politically, economically, and militarily. But we must also lead by attracting others to our cause, by demonstrating once again the virtues of freedom and democracy, by defending the rules of international civilized society and by creating the new international institutions necessary to advance the peace and freedoms we cherish. Perhaps above all, leadership in today's world means accepting and fulfilling our responsibilities as a great nation.

One of those responsibilities is to be a good and reliable ally to our fellow democracies. We cannot build an enduring peace based on freedom by ourselves, and we do not want to. We have to strengthen our global alliances as the core of a new global compact -- a League of Democracies -- that can harness the vast influence of the more than one hundred democratic nations around the world to advance our values and defend our shared interests.

At the heart of this new compact must be mutual respect and trust. Recall the words of our founders in the Declaration of Independence, that we pay "decent respect to the opinions of mankind." Our great power does not mean we can do whatever we want whenever we want, nor should we assume we have all the wisdom and knowledge necessary to succeed. We need to listen to the views and respect the collective will of our democratic allies. When we believe international action is necessary, whether military, economic, or diplomatic, we will try to persuade our friends that we are right. But we, in return, must be willing to be persuaded by them.

America must be a model citizen if we want others to look to us as a model. How we behave at home affects how we are perceived abroad. We must fight the terrorists and at the same time defend the rights that are the foundation of our society. We can't torture or treat inhumanely suspected terrorists we have captured. I believe we should close Guantanamo and work with our allies to forge a new international understanding on the disposition of dangerous detainees under our control.

There is such a thing as international good citizenship. We need to be good stewards of our planet and join with other nations to help preserve our common home. The risks of global warming have no borders. We and the other nations of the world must get serious about substantially reducing greenhouse gas emissions in the coming years or we will hand off a much-diminished world to our grandchildren. We need a successor to the Kyoto Treaty, a cap-and-trade system that delivers the necessary environmental impact in an economically responsible manner. We Americans must lead by example and encourage the participation of the rest of the world, including most importantly, the developing economic powerhouses of China and India.

Four and a half decades ago, John Kennedy described the people of Latin America as our "firm and ancient friends, united by history and experience and by our determination to advance the values of American civilization." With globalization, our hemisphere has grown closer, more integrated, and more interdependent. Latin America today is increasingly vital to the fortunes of the United States. Americans north and south share a common geography and a common destiny. The countries of Latin America are the natural partners of the United States, and our northern neighbor Canada.

Relations with our southern neighbors must be governed by mutual respect, not by an imperial impulse or by anti-American demagoguery. The promise of North, Central, and South American life is too great for that. I believe the Americas can and must be the model for a new 21st century relationship between North and South. Ours can be the first completely democratic hemisphere, where trade is free across all borders, where the rule of law and the power of free markets advance the security and prosperity of all.

Power in the world today is moving east; the Asia-Pacific region is on the rise. Together with our democratic partner of many decades, Japan, we can grasp the opportunities present in the unfolding world and this century can become safe -- both American and Asian, both prosperous and free. Asia has made enormous strides in recent decades. Its economic achievements are well known; less known is that more people live under democratic rule in Asia than in any other region of the world.

Dealing with a rising China will be a central challenge for the next American president. Recent prosperity in China has brought more people out of poverty faster than during any other time in human history. China's newfound power implies responsibilities. China could bolster its claim that it is "peacefully rising" by being more transparent about its significant military buildup, by working with the world to isolate pariah states such as Burma, Sudan and Zimbabwe, and by ceasing its efforts to establish regional forums and economic arrangements designed to exclude America from Asia.

China and the United States are not destined to be adversaries. We have numerous overlapping interests and hope to see our relationship evolve in a manner that benefits both countries and, in turn, the Asia-Pacific region and the world. But until China moves toward political liberalization, our relationship will be based on periodically shared interests rather than the bedrock of shared values.

The United States did not single-handedly win the Cold War; the transatlantic alliance did, in concert with partners around the world. The bonds we share with Europe in terms of history, values, and interests are unique. Americans should welcome the rise of a strong, confident European Union as we continue to support a strong NATO. The future of the transatlantic relationship lies in confronting the challenges of the twenty-first century worldwide: developing a common energy policy, creating a transatlantic common market tying our economies more closely together, addressing the dangers posed by a revanchist Russia, and institutionalizing our cooperation on issues such as climate change, foreign assistance, and democracy promotion.

We should start by ensuring that the G-8, the group of eight highly industrialized states, becomes again a club of leading market democracies: it should include Brazil and India but exclude Russia. Rather than tolerate Russia's nuclear blackmail or cyber attacks, Western nations should make clear that the solidarity of NATO, from the Baltic to the Black Sea, is indivisible and that the organization's doors remain open to all democracies committed to the defense of freedom.

While Africa's problems -- poverty, corruption, disease, and instability -- are well known, we must refocus on the bright promise offered by many countries on that continent. We must strongly engage on a political, economic, and security level with friendly governments across Africa, but insist on improvements in transparency and the rule of law. Many African nations will not reach their true potential without external assistance to combat entrenched problems, such as HIV/AIDS, that afflict Africans disproportionately. I will establish the goal of eradicating malaria on the continent -- the number one killer of African children under the age of five. In addition to saving millions of lives in the world's poorest regions, such a campaign would do much to add luster to America's image in the world.

We also share an obligation with the world's other great powers to halt and reverse the proliferation of nuclear weapons. The United States and the international community must work together and do all in our power to contain and reverse North Korea's nuclear weapons program and to prevent Iran -- a nation whose President has repeatedly expressed a desire to wipe Israel from the face of the earth -- from obtaining a nuclear weapon. We should work to reduce nuclear arsenals all around the world, starting with our own. Forty years ago, the five declared nuclear powers came together in support of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty and pledged to end the arms race and move toward nuclear disarmament. The time has come to renew that commitment. We do not need all the weapons currently in our arsenal. The United States should lead a global effort at nuclear disarmament consistent with our vital interests and the cause of peace.

If we are successful in pulling together a global coalition for peace and freedom -- if we lead by shouldering our international responsibilities and pointing the way to a better and safer future for humanity, I believe we will gain tangible benefits as a nation.

It will strengthen us to confront the transcendent challenge of our time: the threat of radical Islamic terrorism. This challenge is transcendent not because it is the only one we face. There are many dangers in today's world, and our foreign policy must be agile and effective at dealing with all of them. But the threat posed by the terrorists is unique. They alone devote all their energies and indeed their very lives to murdering innocent men, women, and children. They alone seek nuclear weapons and other tools of mass destruction not to defend themselves or to enhance their prestige or to give them a stronger hand in world affairs but to use against us wherever and whenever they can. Any president who does not regard this threat as transcending all others does not deserve to sit in the White House, for he or she does not take seriously enough the first and most basic duty a president has -- to protect the lives of the American people.

We learned through the tragic experience of September 11 that passive defense alone cannot protect us. We must protect our borders. But we must also have an aggressive strategy of confronting and rooting out the terrorists wherever they seek to operate, and deny them bases in failed or failing states. Today al Qaeda and other terrorist networks operate across the globe, seeking out opportunities in Southeast Asia, Central Asia, Africa, and in the Middle East.

Prevailing in this struggle will require far more than military force. It will require the use of all elements of our national power: public diplomacy; development assistance; law enforcement training; expansion of economic opportunity; and robust intelligence capabilities. I have called for major changes in how our government faces the challenge of radical Islamic extremism by much greater resources for and integration of civilian efforts to prevent conflict and to address post-conflict challenges. Our goal must be to win the "hearts and minds" of the vast majority of moderate Muslims who do not want their future controlled by a minority of violent extremists. In this struggle, scholarships will be far more important than smart bombs.

We also need to build the international structures for a durable peace in which the radical extremists are gradually eclipsed by the more powerful forces of freedom and tolerance. Our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan are critical in this respect and cannot be viewed in isolation from our broader strategy. In the troubled and often dangerous region they occupy, these two nations can either be sources of extremism and instability or they can in time become pillars of stability, tolerance, and democracy.

For decades in the greater Middle East, we had a strategy of relying on autocrats to provide order and stability. We relied on the Shah of Iran, the autocratic rulers of Egypt, the generals of Pakistan, the Saudi royal family, and even, for a time, on Saddam Hussein. In the late 1970s that strategy began to unravel. The Shah was overthrown by the radical Islamic revolution that now rules in Tehran. The ensuing ferment in the Muslim world produced increasing instability. The autocrats clamped down with ever greater repression, while also surreptitiously aiding Islamic radicalism abroad in the hopes that they would not become its victims. It was a toxic and explosive mixture. The oppression of the autocrats blended with the radical Islamists' dogmatic theology to produce a perfect storm of intolerance and hatred.

We can no longer delude ourselves that relying on these out-dated autocracies is the safest bet. They no longer provide lasting stability, only the illusion of it. We must not act rashly or demand change overnight. But neither can we pretend the status quo is sustainable, stable, or in our interests. Change is occurring whether we want it or not. The only question for us is whether we shape this change in ways that benefit humanity or let our enemies seize it for their hateful purposes. We must help expand the power and reach of freedom, using all our many strengths as a free people. This is not just idealism. It is the truest kind of realism. It is the democracies of the world that will provide the pillars upon which we can and must build an enduring peace.

If you look at the great arc that extends from the Middle East through Central Asia and the Asian subcontinent all the way to Southeast Asia, you can see those pillars of democracy stretching across the entire expanse, from Turkey and Israel to India and Indonesia. Iraq and Afghanistan lie at the heart of that region. And whether they eventually become stable democracies themselves, or are allowed to sink back into chaos and extremism, will determine not only the fate of that critical part of the world, but our fate, as well. That is the broad strategic perspective through which to view our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan. <h3>Many people ask, how should we define success? Success in Iraq and Afghanistan is the establishment of peaceful, stable, prosperous, democratic states that pose no threat to neighbors and contribute to the defeat of terrorists. It is the triumph of religious tolerance over violent radicalism.</h3>

Those who argue that our goals in Iraq are unachievable are wrong, just as they were wrong a year ago when they declared the war in Iraq already lost. Since June 2007 sectarian and ethnic violence in Iraq has been reduced by 90 percent. Overall civilian deaths have been reduced by more than 70 percent. Deaths of coalition forces have fallen by 70 percent. The dramatic reduction in violence has opened the way for a return to something approaching normal political and economic life for the average Iraqi. People are going back to work. Markets are open. Oil revenues are climbing. Inflation is down. Iraq's economy is expected to grown by roughly 7 percent in 2008. Political reconciliation is occurring across Iraq at the local and provincial grassroots level. Sunni and Shi'a chased from their homes by terrorist and sectarian violence are returning. Political progress at the national level has been far too slow, but there is progress.

Critics say that the "surge" of troops isn't a solution in itself, that we must make progress toward Iraqi self-sufficiency. I agree. Iraqis themselves must increasingly take responsibility for their own security, and they must become responsible political actors. It does not follow from this, however, that we should now recklessly retreat from Iraq regardless of the consequences. We must take the course of prudence and responsibility, and help Iraqis move closer to the day when they no longer need our help.

That is the route of responsible statesmanship. We have incurred a moral responsibility in Iraq. It would be an unconscionable act of betrayal, a stain on our character as a great nation, if we were to walk away from the Iraqi people and consign them to the horrendous violence, ethnic cleansing, and possibly genocide that would follow a reckless, irresponsible, and premature withdrawal. Our critics say America needs to repair its image in the world. How can they argue at the same time for the morally reprehensible abandonment of our responsibilities in Iraq?

Those who claim we should withdraw from Iraq in order to fight Al Qaeda more effectively elsewhere are making a dangerous mistake. Whether they were there before is immaterial, al Qaeda is in Iraq now, as it is in the borderlands between Pakistan and Afghanistan, in Somalia, and in Indonesia. If we withdraw prematurely from Iraq, al Qaeda in Iraq will survive, proclaim victory and continue to provoke sectarian tensions that, while they have been subdued by the success of the surge, still exist, as various factions of Sunni and Shi'a have yet to move beyond their ancient hatreds, and are ripe for provocation by al Qaeda. Civil war in Iraq could easily descend into genocide, and destabilize the entire region as neighboring powers come to the aid of their favored factions. I believe a reckless and premature withdrawal would be a terrible defeat for our security interests and our values. <h3>Iran will also view our premature withdrawal as a victory, and the biggest state supporter of terrorists, a country with nuclear ambitions and a stated desire to destroy the State of Israel, will see its influence in the Middle East grow significantly. These consequences of our defeat would threaten us for years, and those who argue for it, as both Democratic candidates do, are arguing for a course that would eventually draw us into a wider and more difficult war that would entail far greater dangers and sacrifices than we have suffered to date.</h3> I do not argue against withdrawal, any more than I argued several years ago for the change in tactics and additional forces that are now succeeding in Iraq, because I am somehow indifferent to war and the suffering it inflicts on too many American families. I hold my position because I hate war, and I know very well and very personally how grievous its wages are. But I know, too, that we must sometimes pay those wages to avoid paying even higher ones later.

I run for President because I want to keep the country I love and have served all my life safe, and to rise to the challenges of our times, as generations before us rose to theirs. I run for President because I know it is incumbent on America, more than any other nation on earth, to lead in building the foundations for a stable and enduring peace, a peace built on the strength of our commitment to it, on the transformative ideals on which we were founded, on our ability to see around the corner of history, and on our courage and wisdom to make hard choices. I run because I believe, as strongly as I ever have, that it is within our power to make in our time another, better world than we inherited.

Thank you.
Quote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/28/op...gewanted=print
March 28, 2008
Op-Ed Columnist
Tested Over Time
By DAVID BROOKS

Barack Obama says: “John McCain is determined to carry out four more years of George Bush’s failed policies.” Obama is a politician, so it’s normal that he’d choose to repeat the lines that some of his followers want to hear. But before people buy that argument, I’d ask them to read three speeches.

The first was delivered by McCain on Sept. 28, 1983. The Reagan administration was seeking Congressional authorization to support the deployment of U.S. Marines in Lebanon. McCain, a freshman legislator, decided to oppose his president and party.

McCain argued that Lebanese society, as it existed then, could not be stabilized and unified by American troops. He made a series of concrete observations about the facts on the ground. Lebanon was in a state of de facto partition. The Lebanese Army would not soon be strong enough to drive out the Syrians. The American presence would not intimidate the Syrians into negotiating.

“I do not foresee obtainable objectives in Lebanon.” He concluded. “I believe the longer we stay, the more difficult it will be to leave, and I am prepared to accept the consequences of our withdrawal.”

This was not the speech of a man who thinks military force is the answer to every problem. It was the speech of one who conforms policies to facts. And it came a month before a terrorist attack that killed 241 Americans.

The second speech was delivered on Nov. 5, 2003. This was not a grand strategy speech. It was a critique of the execution of existing U.S. policy.

First, McCain wondered about the Pentagon’s publicity campaign in Iraq: “When, in the course of days, we increase by thousands our estimate of the numbers of Iraqis trained, it sounds like somebody is cooking the books.”

He then pointed out that the U.S. had not committed sufficient troops. He called for a counterinsurgency strategy in which U.S. forces would actually hold secure territory. “Simply put,” he said, “there does not appear to be a strategy behind our current force levels in Iraq, other than to preserve the illusion that we have sufficient forces in place to meet our objectives.”

He excoriated the arrogance of Paul Bremer and the Coalition Provisional Authority: “The C.P.A. seems to think that all wisdom is made in America, and that the Iraqi people were defeated, not liberated.”

This was the speech of a man, adjusting to changing circumstances, who was calling on the administration to adjust quickly as well.

The third McCain speech was delivered on Wednesday. It is as personal, nuanced and ambitious a speech as any made by a presidential candidate this year.

McCain noted that we are not only fighting a war on terror. The world is seeing a growing split between liberal democracies and growing autocracies. We are seeing a world in which great power rivalries — with China, Russia and Iran — have to be managed and soothed.

Moreover, the U.S. is not the sole hegemon. Power is widely distributed among many rising nations. McCain’s core purpose in the speech was to revive the foreign policy tradition that has jumped parties but that has been associated with people like Theodore Roosevelt, Henry Stimson, Dean Acheson, John Kennedy and Ronald Reagan.

In this tradition, a strong America is the key to world peace, but America’s role is as a leading player in an international system. America didn’t defeat communism, McCain said Wednesday, the American-led global community did. This is the tradition that Robert Kagan of the Carnegie Endowment has been describing for a decade.

McCain offered to build new pillars for that system — a League of Democracies, a new nuclear nonproliferation regime and a successor to the Kyoto treaty. In stabilizing Asia and the Middle East, he would rely more on democracies like Turkey, India, Israel and Iraq, and less on Mubarak and Musharraf.

Unlike the realists, McCain believes other nations have to be judged according to how they treat their own citizens. Unlike the Bush administration in its first few years, he believes global treaties cannot solely be evaluated according to a narrow definition of the American interest. The U.S. also has to protect the fabric of the international system.

McCain opened his speech with a description of his father leaving home on the day of Pearl Harbor, and then being gone for much of the next four years. He harkened back repeatedly to the accomplishments of the Truman administration.

In so doing, he signaled that the foreign policy debate of the coming months will be very different from the one of the past six years. Anybody who thinks McCain is merely continuing the Bush agenda is not paying attention.
So we have McCain's foreign policy "vision", and we have NY Times David Brooks fawning over McCain.

To me, it all looks like the same, contradictory, incoherent foreign policy that Bush/Cheney have articulated and attempted to put into practice. Isn't this the "real Mccain"?....

Quote:
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/2/4..._maverick_matt

Matt Welch, Editor-in-chief of the libertarian Reason Magazine and a former editor at the Los Angeles Times. He has written extensively on John McCain and is the author of a new book titled McCain: The Myth of a Maverick.

.....but his father used to go around giving these lectures about how, you know, the naval gap between the US and the Soviet Union was threatening democracy, how we—his nickname was Mr. Sea Power. You know, he would recite British colonialist poetry around the dinner table. They were constantly talking about the necessity for just a huge US navy to guarantee the world’s security. That is the background that John McCain was just marinating in from the time he was a child. And for much of that period, whenever his father or grandfather was not out at sea, they were living on Capitol Hill, usually in some Washington, D.C. capacity. So he was sitting around the breakfast table with senators and congressmen from the time he was a kid. There’s this big notion that he’s a man of the people, which is actually the name of a biography of him, when in fact, down the line, he’s been very much an elitist his entire life, for both good and for ill. He has just been surrounded by, you know, top historians, top senators and congressmen and top military brass.

But this tradition that he comes from is incredibly interventionist and expansionist. It’s really interesting that in the primaries so far, if you look at the exit polls, among people who voted in the GOP primaries who consider themselves antiwar, anti-the-Iraq-war, and among voters who consider themselves angry at George Bush—and that’s a quote—and among independents, McCain is beating his opponents by two-to-one. If you actually look at people who describe themselves as just Republicans, McCain has not yet won a single primary. So he is basically winning the GOP primaries on the back of the antiwar vote, when in fact he would be the most explicitly interventionist president since Teddy Roosevelt, and he certainly makes George Bush look gun-shy by comparison. .....
It is contradictory because the "goal" is sabotaged by the closeness of the US leadership to authoritarian Egypt, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia governments, the signal of the continuing US military occupation of Iraq sends to people in the region, as well as the ongoing attacks by Bush, Cheney, and McCain, against the democratically elected leadership of Iran. They say they want democracy, but people in the middle east overwhlemingly back parties like Hamas, and leaders like Hezbollah and the Iranian government. If democracy is the goal in Iraq, it won't be the kind where the people partner with the US and Israel to fight the "terrorists". The US doesn't get that democracy is messy and comes with leaders less amenable to the US than the "strong men" in Egypt, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia. The sign that McCain won't change anything is his bashing of Iran in his speech!
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Old 03-28-2008, 09:02 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I used to really like McCain. He seemed extremely moderate, for a Republican. I'd even have considered voting for him at one time.

But the closer he's gotten to the presidency, the more he's pandered to the extreme right of the party--his military posture has gotten more hostile, his positions on torture, abortion, civil rights.... basically everything I disagree with conservatives about, he's triangulated his way right into. So now not only do I disagree with his positions, I don't like him for his slimy votemongering.
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Old 03-28-2008, 09:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Not only is he vote mongering, but he's trying to get the "insane, completely ignorant to geopolitics" vote. In going from critiquing the war on Iraq as he once did to now supporting a war on Iran, he's not just getting votes; he's putting millions of innocent lives at risk. He's leading in the wrong direction, and is a bad person for it.
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Old 03-28-2008, 09:33 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbastid
I used to really like McCain. He seemed extremely moderate, for a Republican. I'd even have considered voting for him at one time.

But the closer he's gotten to the presidency, the more he's pandered to the extreme right of the party--his military posture has gotten more hostile, his positions on torture, abortion, civil rights.... basically everything I disagree with conservatives about, he's triangulated his way right into. So now not only do I disagree with his positions, I don't like him for his slimy votemongering.
The Clinton's have worn thin on me and I considered voting McCain if it came down to him or Hillary. I went through his web site and read some older articles for research. My conclusion is NO WAY IN HELL. The guys either nutz or willing to say anything to get elected. I think most politicians are like that, with him I'm worried he might actually do what he's saying.
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Old 03-28-2008, 09:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
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All the greater reason to get the selection of the demoratic candidate right.

Though if things keep going the way they are going, neither of the remaining candidate will win and it will be at least four years of McCain.
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Old 03-28-2008, 09:35 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I'll vote for Hillary if it's her against McCain. I mean jesus christ.
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Old 03-28-2008, 09:37 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willravel
Not only is he vote mongering, but he's trying to get the "insane, completely ignorant to geopolitics" vote. In going from critiquing the war on Iraq as he once did to now supporting a war on Iran, he's not just getting votes; he's putting millions of innocent lives at risk. He's leading in the wrong direction, and is a bad person for it.
What else would we expect? McCain wants to win. Another pandering politician, flights on private jets with lobbyists, etc., nothing changes.
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Old 03-28-2008, 09:49 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottopilot
What else would we expect? McCain wants to win. Another pandering politician, flights on private jets with lobbyists, etc., nothing changes.
If he invades Iran as a function of his wanting to get more votes, he could start a cold war with China and Russia. I expect that someone will put the good of the species above votes. Obama and Hillary seem to. Actually, many of the former candidates with their eye on the Republican ticket wouldn't dare do this kind of pandering.

Should this be rewarded?
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Old 03-28-2008, 09:50 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Charlatan
All the greater reason to get the selection of the demoratic candidate right.

Though if things keep going the way they are going, neither of the remaining candidate will win and it will be at least four years of McCain.
I think they have another month, after that I there's a serious possibility of a McCain win.

I think the Dems are getting closer to needing "right now" as opposed to "right."

Quote:
Originally Posted by willravel
I'll vote for Hillary if it's her against McCain. I mean jesus christ.

Ditto
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Last edited by Tully Mars; 03-28-2008 at 09:53 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 03-28-2008, 10:48 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willravel
If he invades Iran as a function of his wanting to get more votes, he could start a cold war with China and Russia. I expect that someone will put the good of the species above votes. Obama and Hillary seem to. Actually, many of the former candidates with their eye on the Republican ticket wouldn't dare do this kind of pandering.

Should this be rewarded?
I understand what you're getting at, but they all tell their base what they want to hear. Saying what's needed to get elected, then not truly following-through is (historically) the most probable outcome. I don't expect any less from these three. It's a tough call.
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Old 03-28-2008, 11:25 PM   #11 (permalink)
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<span class="post_info"> Filed Under: <a href="#"><a href="http://thinkprogress.org?tag=Iraq" rel="tag" title="View all posts tagged Iraq">Iraq</a>, <a href="http://thinkprogress.org?tag=Iran" rel="tag" title="View all posts tagged Iran">Iran</a><br /></a></span>
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By Ali on Mar 18th, 2008 at 12:58 pm </div>
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<h3 class="title"><a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/18/mccain-iran-al-qaeda/" rel="bookmark" title="Permanent link to 'McCain Conflates Shiite Iran And Sunni Al Qaeda, Needs To Be Corrected By Lieberman'">McCain Conflates Shiite Iran And Sunni Al Qaeda, Needs To Be Corrected By Lieberman</a><span class="storyexpander"><a class="storyexpander" id="exlink1-19090">&raquo;</a></span></h3>

<p><img src='http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/li3.jpg' alt='li3.jpg' / class="imgright"/> Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) has spent a majority of his presidential campaign trying to convince voters that he is the most qualified to tackle foreign policy issues:</p>
<blockquote><p>I would believe that my knowledge and experience and background clearly indicates that if the phone rang in the White House and I was the one to answer it, <strong>I would be the one to best address a national security crisis</strong>. [<a href="http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2008/03/john_mccain_weighs_in_on_the_r.html">3/3/08</a>]</p>
<p><strong>I have the most experience</strong> of any presidential candidate when it comes to foreign policy and advancing our national and economic security priorities around the globe. [<a href="http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/News/NewsReleases/890db0f0-f126-47dc-a412-25c2fece86cf.htm">1/29/08</a>]</p>
<p>On matters of war and peace, <strong>I offer Americans my experience, my personal familiarity with the tragedy of war</strong>, [and] deep involvement in all of the national security issues of the last two decades… [<a href="http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2007/11/mccain_no_other_candidate_has.html">11/18/07</a>]</p></blockquote>
<p>Of course, McCain’s supposed prescient understanding of foreign policy has been <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/15/lieerman-mccain-foreign-policy/">proven faulty over and over</a>. Today, as the Washington Post’s Cameron Barr and Michael Shear report, <a href="http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/03/18/a_mccain_gaffe_in_jordan.html">McCain further undermined his claim</a> to be the best qualified on matters of foreign policy, when he repeated a mistaken claim that Iran was training al Qaeda fighters:</p>
<blockquote><p>Speaking to reporters in Amman, the Jordanian capital, McCain said he and two Senate colleagues traveling with him continue to be <strong>concerned about Iranian operatives “taking al-Qaeda into Iran, training them and sending them back.”</strong></p>
<p>Pressed to elaborate, McCain said it was “common knowledge and has been reported in the media that al-Qaeda is going back into Iran and receiving training and are coming back into Iraq from Iran, that’s well known. And it’s unfortunate.” <strong>A few moments later, Sen. Joseph Lieberman, standing just behind McCain, stepped forward and whispered in the presidential candidate’s ear. McCain then said: “I’m sorry, the Iranians are training extremists, not al-Qaeda.”</strong></p></blockquote>
<p>He <a href="http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/talkradio/transcripts/Transcript.aspx?ContentGuid=ae522a49-6c82-4791-a76e-44ebb718bf32">made the same assertion</a> on right-wing Hugh Hewitt’s radio show last night. Listen <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/18/mccain-iran-al-qaeda/">here:</a></p>

<p>The “common knowledge” McCain cites is simply false. Far from working together, Iran and al Qaeda represent opposing sides in the Iraq civil war. <a href="http://www.cfr.org/publication/14811/">Al Qaeda is a Sunni Muslim</a> extremist group, while <a href="http://www.cfr.org/publication/10903/shiite_muslims_in_the_middle_east.html">Iran is ruled by Shiites</a>, where they make up 90 percent of the population. </p>
<p>McCain, the so-called foreign policy expert, is confusing <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/02/world/middleeast/02cnd-iran.html?ex=1190001600&en=1a54f8c31de40c43&ei=5070">reports that Iran was aiding Shiite insurgents</a> in Iraq — one of the groups that virulently opposes al Qaeda. Even some aspects of those reports have been <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/14/washington/14intel.html">disputed</a>. </p>
<p>Considering he had to correct McCain himself, does Lieberman still insist that McCain is “<a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/15/lieerman-mccain-foreign-policy/">almost always right</a> on the big issues in foreign policy”?</p>
<p>(HT: <a href="http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/03/doesnt_understand_economics_ei.php">Matthew Yglesias</a>)</p>
<p><a href="http://digg.com/politics/McCain_Conflates_Shiite_Iran_And_Sunni_Al_Qaeda">Digg It!</a></p>
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<div class="post_update"><span>Update</span>The AP reported on McCain's "concern" over Iranian influence in Iraq, but <a href="http://mediamatters.org/items/200803180005" >edited out the al Qaeda reference</a>: "McCain also voiced concern that Tehran is bringing militants over the border into Iran for training before sending them back to fight U.S. troops in Iraq."</div>
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Quote:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/29212.html
Visit by Iran's president shows depth of Iraq's divisions
By Leila Fadel | McClatchy Newspapers
Posted on Sunday, March 2, 2008

BAGHDAD — Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Sunday became the first Iranian head of state to visit Iraq in three decades and immediately became the focus of demonstrations that underscored Iraq's sectarian split.

In Fallujah, Sunni Muslim protesters demonstrated against his visit, calling him the killer of Iraqi children. Iraq's Sunni vice president showed up late for a reception for Ahmadinejad hosted by Iraq's Kurdish president.

Meanwhile, Iraq's Shiite ruling elite, many of whom had been taken refuge during Saddam Hussein's time in Shiite Iran, listened to Ahmadinejad without need of translation into Arabic, clearly comfortable hearing his Farsi.

American officials stayed far away from the visiting Iranian delegation. At a joint press conference with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki, Ahmadinejad claimed that "Iraqis don't like Americans." Maliki didn't challenge the assertion.

Ahmadinejad's trip was a visible sign of what have been growing economic and cultural ties between the two countries since American-led forces toppled Saddam. Iranian economic investment is growing, especially in southern Iraq, millions of Iranians visit Iraq's holy cities of Najaf and Karbala on religious pilgrimages, and Iraqi officials frequently travel to Tehran and other Iranian cities. Iraq's most influential political party, the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq, was founded in Iran.

The visit also was the first by any regional leader since the end of Saddam's rule and while President Bush and British prime ministers also have visited, Ahmadinejad was the first leader to receive the full trappings of a state visit.

He was met at Baghdad International Airport by Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari and Maliki's national security advisor, Mowaffak al Rubaie. He was whisked from the airport in a black BMW to President Jalal Talabani's compound, where a marching band welcomed him with the Iranian and Iraqi national anthems and a series of other marches, including an American one, Colonel Boogie.

Iraqi officials lined up to welcome the visiting president, but the Sunni vice-president, Tarik al Hashemi, was noticeably absent. He appeared about 50 minutes after Ahmadinejad arrived. There was no explanation for his delayed arrival.

No U.S. soldiers were in sight near Talabani's home and security was provided by Kurdish soldiers known as the peshmerga.

At an afternoon press conference with Maliki, Ahmadinejad dismissed longstanding U.S. accusations that Iran trains, funds and arms Shiite militias in hopes of destabilizing Iraq.

"You can tell Mr. Bush that accusing others will increase the problems for America in the region and will not solve the problem," he said. "The Americans have to accept the facts of the region. Iraqi people do not like Americans."

When asked if Iran and Iraq trusted one another, Ahmadinejad took another swipe at the Americans.

"If you look to the two peoples, Iranian and Iraqi, we can see they have a joint history, culture and geography," he said. "If they don't trust each other in spite of all these characteristics in common can they trust countries which are 12,000 kilometers away from Iraq and Iran?"

Maliki welcomed Ahmadinejad and called his visit "the first visit of its kind." He said the visit would "deepen" the relationship between the two nations.

"We believe that there is not stability except through understanding and discussion, " he said.

Iran has long touted its historical, geographic and cultural connection to Iraq as more powerful than the tens of thousands of U.S. troops here. Iranian officials claim that the continued U.S. military presence is the real destabilizing factor.

But Sunni Muslims bristled at Ahmadinejad's visit. In downtown Fallujah, which at one time was the center of the Sunni-dominated insurgency, about 400 people held signs and chanted anti-Iran slogans.

"The teacher's association protest the visit of the Iranian president, killer of Iraqi children," one sign read. Said another, "We demand the Iranian president stop supporting the militias which are killing the Iraqi people." Others accused the group of supporting the Sunni insurgent group, Al Qaida and another accused Iran of stealing Iraqi oil.

<h3>Last week, 500 people demonstrated against the visit in Diyala province, and Arab leaders in Kirkuk rejected the visit in a written statement.</h3>
Quote:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/...q.ahmadinejad/
updated 5:57 p.m. EST, Sun March 2, 2008
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, in Baghdad Sunday for the start of a historic two-day trip, said "visiting Iraq without the dictator is a good thing."

The Shiite-led Iraqi government rolled out the red carpet, literally, for Ahmadinejad as he became the first Iranian president to visit Iraq, a country that was a bitter enemy when Saddam Hussein's Sunni government was in power.

Ahmadinejad, at a joint news conference with Iraqi President Jalal Talabani, said the trip "opens a new chapter in bilateral ties with Iraq."

"We have had good talks in a friendly and constructive environment," Ahmadinejad said. "We have the same understanding of things and the two parties are determined to strengthen their political, economic and cultural cooperation."

Later in the day, Ahmadinejad met Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki. Both al-Maliki and Talabani have made official trips to Iran since taking office.

At a joint news conference with al-Maliki in Baghdad's Green Zone, Ahmadinejad did not hide his disdain for the United States and its leadership.

"(U.S. President) Bush always accuses others without evidence and this increases problems," Ahmadinejad said. "The Americans have to understand that Iraqi people do not like America." Watch Ahmadinejad comment on the U.S. presence in Iraq »

The United States has accused Iran of supporting some insurgent groups in Iraq, including supplying EFPs, the deadliest and most sophisticated type of roadside bomb.

<h3>Ahmadinejad shunned the security measures followed by many other leaders on visits to Baghdad, riding from Baghdad's airport in a civilian-style sedan -- and not an armored military vehicle or helicopter -- to central Baghdad.

His official welcome and meeting with Talabani was at the presidential house outside of the heavily-fortified International Zone where most high-level events in Baghdad are held.</h3>

Ahmadinejad said a unified and powerful Iraq is in the best interest of Iran and all its neighbors.

"Iraqi people are passing through a critical situation but as we know, the Iraqi people will overcome the situation and the Iraq of tomorrow will be a powerful, developed and unique Iraq," he said.

Ahmadinejad was warmly welcomed in Baghdad. An Iraqi military band played the Iranian and Iraqi national anthems as Ahmadinejad and Talabani stood side-by-side at the end of a long red carpet outside the presidential house. Ahmadinejad then walked down the carpet where he was greeted by two Iraqi children with flowers and a long line of Iraqi officials.

Ahead of his trip, Ahmadinejad said it would "contribute to regional peace and security" and stressed that the people of Iran and Iraq share close bonds.

"My visit to Iraq is to the benefit of all countries, because if there's peace, if we establish peace and put an end to (U.S.) occupation, that will be to the benefit of all countries," the Iranian leader told Tehran-based Press TV before his departure.

Although Iraq invaded Iran in September 1980 after a territorial dispute, and the two countries fought an eight-year war, Ahmadinejad said the nations share a common history.

"The people of Iran and Iraq have close bonds, and there are many holy shrines in Iraq," he said. "People travel there, so we have age-old, historical bonds and common civilization."

He noted that Iraq has a new government, and is an "independent state."

"We should help them," he added.....
<h3>In the top quote box, I show that Joe Lieberman confirmed that he advised McCain that the US and Iran are sharing a common adversary in Iraq, Sunni factions and al-qaeda.</h3>

Compare the accounts above of the visit to Iraq by the Iranian president, announced publicly at least a week before his arrival in Iraq. He traveled by unarmored sedan from Baghdad airport, he spent a small amount of time inside the Green Zone, and despite Sunni protests of his visit to Iraq, in other citiies, he slept outside the Green Zone as well.....with the back to back "surprise arrivals to Iraq by McCain and Cheney, "for security reasons", and the heavy security surrounding them, as they spent almost all of their visits inside the Green Zone:

Quote:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n3941689.shtml
McCain Makes Unannounced Trip To Iraq

BAGHDAD, March 16, 2008
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(CBS/AP) Sen. John McCain, the likely Republican presidential nominee, arrived in Baghdad on Sunday for a visit with Iraqi and U.S. diplomatic and military officials.

The trip by McCain, who has linked his political future to U.S. military success in the nearly five-year-old war, coincided with the 20th anniversary of a horrific chemical weapons attack in northern Iraq.

McCain met with Deputy Prime Minister Barham Saleh and planned to meet with Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, according to the U.S. Embassy. Further details of McCain's visit, which had been anticipated, were not being released for security reasons, the embassy said.....

...McCain was combative toward reporters' questions in the heavily guarded Green Zone, and responded testily to a question about his comment that it was safe to walk some Baghdad streets. He later acknowledged traveling with armed U.S. military escorts.

Violence has dropped throughout the capital since, with an influx of some 30,000 additional U.S. soldiers sent to Iraq last year. The U.S. military has said attacks have fallen by about 60 percent since last February....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...aq-797144.html

Independent.co.uk
McCain upbeat about war on visit to Iraq
By Patrick Cockburn in Baghdad
Tuesday, 18 March 2008


Helicopter gunships circled overhead and checkpoints choked traffic in the streets, but the US Vice-President, Dick Cheney, and the Republican presidential nominee, John McCain, were in Baghdad yesterday to give upbeat accounts of improving security.


Mr Cheney said he sensed "phenomenal changes" and "dramatic" security gains since he last visited 10 months ago. "I am happy to say," said Mr McCain, "Americans are more and more understanding of the success of this strategy of the surge".

Contrary to these optimistic forecasts, a female suicide bomber blew herself up in the Shia holy city of Kerbala yesterday, killing at least 40 people.

With their heavy security and meetings with Iraqis mostly confined to the Green Zone, it would scarcely have been evident to either American politician that the Iraqi capital is divided into hostile townships of Sunni and Shia. The top US commander General David Petraeus complained last week that security gains had not been matched "by sufficient progress by any means in the area of national reconciliation".

This is scarcely surprising. Paradoxically, it was largely because Sunni and Shia Iraqis had come to hate each other more than they did the Americans that the Sunni insurgents switched sides at the end of 2007. They formed al-Sahwa (the Awakening Councils) and allied themselves with their former American enemies.

They did so because of hostility to al-Qa'ida, but above all because the minority Sunni community was being overwhelmed by the Shia. The formation of the 80,000-strong al-Sahwa militia is the most important reason for the optimism of Mr Cheney and Mr McCain. Armed with Kalashnikov assault rifles, the brown-uniformed militiamen belonging to the movement search cars at the entrance and exit points to Sunni areas.

Mr McCain said yesterday that "al-Qa'ida are on the run, but they are not defeated". But in parts of Baghdad al-Sahwa is often al-Qa'ida in Iraq in a new guise rather than a reaction against it.

"Al-Qa'ida think they can become an official militia through al-Sahwa," said Ibrahim Mohammed Abdullah, 35, an al-Sahwa militiaman in the al-Khadra district that was formerly an al-Qa'ida stronghold. "They can gather information on the police commandos and tip off anybody who is going to be arrested."

Other al-Sahwa members confirm this. Saleh Jabar Mohsin, 21, a former student, explained the recent wave of assassinations of al-Sahwa members. "We know," he said, "that anybody from al-Sahwa who has been killed, was shot because he really was working against al-Qa'ida or other Islamic groups. A second reason might be that he had refused to play a dual role [working for both the Americans and al-Qa'ida].".....
Quote:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1
Cheney makes surprise visit to Iraq

Mar 17 04:25 AM US/Eastern

US Vice President Dick Cheney swept into Baghdad on an unannounced visit Monday, looking to highlight security gains and promote elusive political progress days before the war enters its sixth year.
Minutes after he arrived, an explosion rocked central Baghdad, following a roadside bombing that killed a policeman, underscoring the violence that still grips the nation almost five years after the US-led invasion of Iraq.

Cheney met the top US commander in Iraq, General David Petraeus, and the US ambassador Ryan Crocker, and was to hold talks with Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki and other senior Iraqi political figures.

The unheralded visit, shrouded in secrecy and blanketed with security, came as Cheney opened a nine-day visit to the Middle East and beyond, with scheduled stops in Oman, Saudi Arabia, Israel and the West Bank, and Turkey.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/30645.html

....Cheney spent Monday in a tightly choreographed hopscotch, moving at least six times for high-level meetings. In the fortress-like Green Zone compound, which houses the U.S. and Iraqi headquarters, he met Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki; Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. military commander in Iraq; and U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker.

Maliki said his talks with Cheney focused on negotiations for a long-term U.S.-Iraqi security agreement that would replace the United Nations mandate for foreign troops, which expires at the end of the year.

Traveling under military guard along roads that had been swept for bombs and were lined with security forces, Cheney ventured a mile or so outside the Green Zone to call on Iraqi President Jalal Talabani and Abdelaziz al Hakim, the head of the powerful Iranian-backed Shiite party known as the Supreme Islamic Iraqi Council.....
Do they think we are stupid? Neither Cheney nor McCain has an Iraq or Iran, or a middle east policy that is "reality based". <h3>By the description of his state visit to Iraq, the Iranian president demonstrated that his country is the winner in the Iraq war. He pre-announced his visit, and conducted himself in Iraq without fear. Cheney and McCain arrived in Iraq like thieves in the night, continuing to hide behind heavy military escort, or inside a fortress, during their entire visits, even as they praised and took credit for the improving security conditions.</h3>

As Glenn Greenwald wrote about McCain's speech:
Quote:
.....Just as one would expect, given their identical worldviews, Bush and McCain burdened with exactly the same absurd contradictions. Hence: the key to our security is to undermine Muslims' resentment towards the U.S., which we'll accomplish by occupying Iraq indefinitely and threatening Iran. "Victory" in Iraq means a government supported by the majority of Iraqis and yet which somehow is simultaneously a "key U.S. ally in the war on terror" and a friend of Israel.....

......We should continue to interfere in Middle East countries (thus ensuring increased anti-Americanism) and simultaneously spread democracy (thus ensuring the election of anti-American political leaders). We must rein in government spending while pursuing hegemonic policies that we can't remotely afford to pay for, etc. etc.....
Isn't this an apt description of the Bush/Cheney/McCain disconnect?

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