Ustwo

Oh I like that.

And yes Obama is the same old same old, he does look good saying it though.

I go by his voting record though, words are cheap.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Willravel

I'm going to try this again, with help from SteveS.
http://www.happyatheistforum.com/vie...php?f=4&t=1294

I, Willravel, am a "rich white person". Am I ruining America from his perspective? Probably not, since I'm a member of the ACLU and Amnesty International, I vote in favor of equality, and I actively engage racism in order to stop it.

I support the black community in many ways, but I'm a rich white person. He believes that I am racist, or he shouldn't use "rich white people" instead opting for a more accurate label.

ratbastid

Okay, well, it finally happened, folks. You won: Obama has denounced Wright.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24371827/
Doesn't get much clearer than that, does it? The question is: does this settle it for you?

Xazy

If he had come out and condemned him from the start, and distanced himself before the political pressure it would settle it for me. Actually it does settle it in the negative for Obama for me. Your spiritual leader represents someone who helps to build your values, and if he was so close to him for 20 years and never condemned / distanced himself from him until now when it is a political issue, I have issues with it.

roachboy

there days late-ish at night when i feel no more like reading or sitting in front of the monitor, i find myself looking at television.
generally, i watch things that are about television itself, and that because i don't think television talks about the world, but only about itself. once in a while, of course, you get segments of footage that appear to refer to the world without so much in the way of problems at the level of framing (what's in what's out) and voice-over (here's what to look at you idiot)--but that's rare. generally television is about itself.

from time to time over the past few weeks i find myself by mistake more often than not looking at cnn or faux news for brief periods and marvelling, until irritation sets in, at the extent to which television is able to generate and keep afloat soundbyte sized crises for seemingly endless series of soundbyte sized moments, just the same the same the same, talking head after talking head saying nothing about this "controversy" over and over and so it happens that this degenerate "situation" has managed to remain viable and has even acquired internal story lines of it's own, like a bad, stupid, one-dimensional potboiler novel.

blah blah blah blah blah.

you do realize that there's no there there, and that such there as people imagine to be there in the case of this there is only there because idiots on the 24/7 "news" networks have been saying there's a there there long enough that, hypnotized-like-some of you see a there there too. but there is no there there, folks. this is a pure example of television talking about itself. this is about television--not about anything outside of television. television.

you're better off watching e!. at least e! doesn't pretend that it talks about anything.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

hiredgun

RB: maybe the only thing that cable news knows how to do is generate crisis precisely because 24-hour news only makes sense in a mode of crisis, because anything other than crisis would render the whole apparatus of 24/7 news completely incoherent. Under circumstances of normalcy, why would you ever need 24/7 coverage? Why would it exist?

So in order to operate inside a space in which its existence actually makes sense, it twists everything into a crisis.

loquitur

I just read a very very good evaluation of the situation with this Wright person vis-a-vis Obama:That's from Noah Millman at The American Scene. Millman's pretty good.

pan6467

WOW.... I truly hope the American publc is not as stupid or easily led as some wish to make us believe.

Obama, all of a sudden hears that Rev. Wright admires and believes much the same way as Louis Farrakhan. He all of a sudden finds out that Rev. Wright believes the conspiracy theory and propagates the theory the government created AIDS to kill the blacks. And decides to disavow the man.

Let's give him the benefit of the doubt..... he never saw these sermons. Now what 3-4 weeks ago these were being played everywhere and Obama came out with that "great unifying speech and all those snippets of old Rev.Wright, well he's just a product from an old school belief system..... he is just a crazy old uncle, besides they were all taken out of context, this is a conspiracy to destroy my candidacy."

Meanwhile, Obama supporters called anyone who dare question or doubt the Messiah..... "RACIST.... (insert cheesy Invasion of the Body Snatchers scream and finger point)"

So one must ask:

was he that stupid as not see ANY of this for the past 20 yrs? If he has been in the pews for 20 years and sat through this and never noticed.... um what will he sit through in the oval office and never notice.

But what about all those who made excuses and claimed Rev. Wright was "right to have these feelings, and this was the African American church and HOW DARE YOU QUESTION, YOU RACIST?" How do they look now?

But now, even Obama disavows all this, the Messiah himself states Wright has preached racism, hate and divisiveness. He not only threw Wright under the bus he had a flat roller follow the bus. Or do you believe as Rev.Wright does that Obama is distancing himself just for politics?

Wow... if his man is elected....... wow..... just wow, how can anyone support this man now?

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

dc_dux

Its easy to support Obama. I like his policies, his intelligence, his willingness and interest in bringing people of diverse opinions together, and numerous other reasons.

This Wright controversy is irrelevant and overblown, except to those who continue to find Obama guilty of something (its still not clear what that might be) by association.

And I dont think I am "stupid or easily led."

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

mixedmedia

hahaha, I laugh...

folks who are obviously following every beat of the media drum wonder...why?

I still laugh...

If the man wins the nomination I will vote for him, if not, I will vote for Hillary...I really don't see it as a 'won or lose' proposition...in any case McCain is being sent home with a goodie bag...dare you disagree?

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

pan6467

Hmmmmmm......

Let me pose a true conspiracy question:

Clinton is running and knows she has a lot of Clinton haters out there.

Knows that her and Bill have powerful enemies in the party.

Knows that Edwards could hurt her, maybe even win full out (no Supers needed).

Now, you need a patsy.... someone that has charisma, no one really knows, someone that can speak for change and be a truly brand new face.... Hell, we'll even make sure he raises more money than the supposed greatest money raiser ever seen in the DNC Bill Clinton.

We'll even use our press allies to build this guy up to Messiah level, people will pass out at his speeches and the cameras will be right there for all to see his power.

Then we'll start the deconstruction. First a speech of unity.... then a speech of total hand washing.... we will make this man unelectable vs. McCain.

So what happens? The DNC will want a winner on he ticket, Hilary, will you lead us and maybe put Obama on as your running mate?

And of course Obama understands no matter what he is to drop out under scandal, but not so serious to totally destroy him, just his presidential hopes this year.

It brings the party together in support of Hilary as the nominee and she slid through almost the whole ear without any true scandals being brought out.

The only true scandal: Bosnia's faux pas. Let me ask you..... how many of you truly believe that Hilary would be that stupid to say something like that? Then have one of her very own supporters, tell the truth?..... After all we know about how great Hilary and Bill are at being so meticulous in everything they do so they can't get caught, she'd do something that stupid?????? Come on.

Just something to ponder.

Another question is, what if Obama started believing all his new found glory and said "fuck you Bill and Hilary, I ain't dong it anymore, I'm actually winning and I won't do it."?

OOOOOO Baby, then Wright truly brings out the skeletons, the Ayers' bring out the skeletons and so on. Then they just totally destroy him.

LOL...... ahhhhh the world of politics and the Clintons.....people will laugh, deny, tell me I'm crazy for even thinking such a thing..... but this is soooooo possible, and it looks to me as if the most probable scenario.

This would be a masterpiece if true and if the Clintons pull it off.

See ya in Nov. McCain.... and um W leave the H keys on the typewriters.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

dc_dux

MM....wanna laugh?

McCain's response to a question about Rev, Hagee's comment claiming Katrina was retribution on New Orleans for its hedonistic, gay-loving, citizens:
Yep...he still accepts and wants Hagee's endorsement

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

pan6467

Let's watch the polls and ummmm what happens..... genius Bill and Hilary sheer genius.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

dc_dux

In the words of McCain....."its nonsense, its nonsense, its nonsense.......

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

mixedmedia

No, wait...

it's nonsense if you're a white dude

it's fucking petrifying if you're a black dude...mommy.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

pan6467

Let me ask you, you say you would vote for Hilary NOW if she were the nominee.

But had you planned on it? would you have voted for someone else if they had had a chance in your state's primary?

If so, who?

Maybe not you MM...... but I am sure a lot of people did exactly that.

Edwards, maybe smene else would be in Obama's spot and not so willing to "step aside" because of scandal.... as Obama maybe.

Just a perhaps.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

SecretMethod70

Not only what dc_dux said, no one ever said Obama was the messiah. Just because I support Obama doesn't mean I have to agree with everything he does. I think it was stupid of him to go on Fox News, and worse that he didn't hold them accountable for their shoddy journalism. I also think he's wrong here, though he's in a tough spot due to a number of closed-minded people in the U.S. I don't know whether he is genuine when he speaks out against Wright, and I don't really care. The sad thing is, I think he probably is, which is unfortunate since, like I said, I don't see much wrong - overall - with the things Wright has said and has been saying.

It should be noted that Rev. Wright has pointed out Obama is not an every Sunday church-goer. It's quite possible that Obama did miss Wright saying a number of these things - that is, unless you think every sermon Wright gives, every Sunday, consists of excerpts from the 30 second clips you've seen.

Bill Moyers recently did an excellent 50 minute interview with Wright on Bill Moyers Journal. (You need to click the link above the video for part 2.)

EDIT: Wow, lots of activity as I wrote that. I was responding to post #528 (and referencing dc_dux in post #529)

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

pan6467

Nice childish response and intelligent discourse there man.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

mixedmedia

I've been an Obama enthusiast for a long time...so maybe it's best you ask this of a casual voter. I favored Obama over EVERYONE.

But I am a realist, and if Hillary wins the nomination I will vote for her seven days out of the week against John McCain.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

SecretMethod70

No, pan, turnabout is fair play. You can't criticize Obama without being at least equally critical of McCain. And, really, you ought to be far moreso, because someone like Hagee has absolutely no excuse, whereas someone like Wright may be wrong, but at least it's easy to see where it comes from.

I'll bite: I was on the fence between Obama and Edwards, and I would've voted for Edwards over Clinton. That said, he wouldn't have had a chance.

"Conspiracy theorist" is a derogatory term for a reason.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

pan6467

But why were you an Obama enthusiast? That conspiracy scenario is not even possible in your mind?

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Ustwo

Way too complex a plan, I enjoy looking for wheels in wheels, plans within plans, but there is a limit.

My guess is they just underestimated Obama.

When this is all said and done I can't see Obama not being the nominee unless, as you said more comes out than him politicing with a crazy minister.

I can't see McCain winning unless the democrats run an utterly inept campaign (again) like they did in 2000 and 2004. If they can't win after a 2 term, leaving on low popularity president with a weak economy, they might as well close shop.

Wake me for 2010, if the democrats get wacky like 92-94 you can expect another 94, and I hope this time the republicans remember why they were elected.

Edit:On a side note I'd vote for Wright before I'd vote for Edwards, how anyone who knows Edwards history as a lawyer can vote for him is beyond me.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

mixedmedia

What conspiracy?

I stand here now saying that I don't have a problem with what Rev. Wright said, while totally understanding the stance Obama has to make. In my opinion anyone who doesn't see it that way is a victim of 'conspiracy' if there truly is one.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

pan6467

Ummmmmmm excuse I have been VERY vocal that I was a solid Edwards supporter and chose Hilary after Edwards died out.

So don't pull me into this McCain BS and act like I have always been a McCain supporter.

I haven't been and you show me where I EVER said I was.

I will give you benefit of the doubt...... I did say if Hilary lost I was 100% sure I would vote for McCain..... because I elieve he is far better material than Obama. And the more all this builds the more, I would stand by that.

But I'm a Hilary supporter and I firmly believe that "conspiracy theory" is a lot closer to the truth than a lot of people will ever admit.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

SecretMethod70

As usual, mixedmedia speaks the truth (sorry BOR, wherever you are )

I never said you were a McCain supporter, I said you are not being even equally critical of McCain's association with Hagee as you are being of Obama's association with Wright.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

pan6467

I think you underestimate the Clintons. We'll see, but I tend to believe that the way Obama dissed Rev. Wright..... ooooo the good Rev. won't take it lying down. It maybe Obama's candidacy.... but it's Wright's 1.whatever million dollar home in the gated white community at stake if he allows Obama to take him and his church down.

And NOONE disses Calypso Louie and walks away unscathed....... no this is just the beginning.

And we have to look at who the winner of a destruction of the frontrunner would be..... hmmmm Clinton? Maybe.

McCain doesn't stand a chance unless Obama is running against him.... Hilary will probably have a landslde vs. McCain.

With Obama it's way too clse and this probably iced it for McCain..... and the DNC is smart enough to see that.

Hilary/Obama vs McCain/Guiliani..... Hilary wins... 44 states .... we shall soon see.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

dc_dux

pan....didnt you have a conspiracy theory (It has started...)about how the GOP leadership wanted to deny the nomination to McCain (and that his committed delegates really dont have to vote for him at the convention.)

Sorry, I cant help but laugh. It's hard to take all these conspiracy theories seriously.

Its not even a conspiracy when Ustwo and I agree on something.

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

pan6467

It had started but it didn't really stick did it? Wright's is sticking.

Plus, these are all possible scenarios.... conspiracy theories are just those possible scenarios.

The sad thing is, that while I may come up with these and people believe (on LARGE SCALES) these or similar conspiracies it says something about the trust of our leaders.

Some of it can be written off as a natural distrust of government.... but not all of it. What we truly need are candidates we can start believing in and trusting again IN ALL LEVELS. We need to get out of the "vote for the better of 2 evils" frame of mind.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

dc_dux

IMO, it says more about the intelligence of the voters....that includes the small percent who want to make Wright an issue, the 13% (latest Newsweek poll) who believe Obama is a Muslim and the small percent who will never vote for a black candidate (the three groups probably overlap to some degree).

There is no LARGE SCALE belief in this bullshit. Obama has the highest "favorable" ratings and lowest "unfavorables" among the three candidates.

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

pan6467

I see soooo Obama by your own words "has to make this stance". That takes the whole "Change" label off him doesn't it?

Hmmmm....so what are his true views?

And if they are so "okay" with you then why does he have to distance himself the way he did?

Or do you believe you are so much smarter and much more read than the average voter? So you understand Obama has to say things he doesn't mean to appease the idiots?

So when Obama, himself states,You still believe and defend Rev. Wright and would support a president who believes these things that Obama has even himself declared,

You are saying that he is pulling away from Wright calling Wrights words the above, only for political gains and not because he is truly against those words?

WOW.......



I don't know ....

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

mixedmedia

I think he is talking to you, pan. He is saying the things that YOU need to hear. Last I checked he was running for president and in this day and age that means pandering to whichever segment currently experiencing panty rash over the latest 'scandal' in the constant parade of media outrage.

I don't think he needs to take a stance on someone else's words or behavior. And I don't speak for him obviously, so I don't know where his true convictions lie. I'm not under the impression that politicians go around saying what's on their mind all the time, though. No innocent dreams dashed there...

I don't have a problem with what Rev. Wright said. And I really don't care what Obama thinks about it.

Note: the only reason I am back on this thread is because, well, I was drunk last night

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Tully Mars

Ever heard the term "beating a dead horse?"

__________________
I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

mixedmedia

Am I? You think?

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

QuasiMondo

Never underestimate the Democrats' ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

__________________
Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer.

-From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator

dc_dux

MM....my guess is that you might not have been the only one.

44 states? Now that calls for a .....Wow!

__________________
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

Tully Mars

Well the horse is dead and was never mine. So my interest is limited here at best. But in a word... yes.

__________________
I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

roachboy

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

mixedmedia

well, then, please allow me to discontinue...beating...this...dead...horse.

I go back to bed and nurse my hangover now.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Tully Mars

A plan they're currently fine tuning.

Go, nurse, sleep. This surely can't help your head. I wouldn't have popped into this thread had I not seen you posted again. Curiosity got the better of me and here I am. But not for long, this entire thread is a train wreck.

__________________
I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo

Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club

ottopilot

The issue is indeed silly, but because of the impact the "Wright" non-story is having on Obama's campaign, it is a curious phenomenon. And because it is as you say nothing, it doesn't change the fact that this dynamic can actually affect the outcome of a presidential election. This is what I find interesting. Notice how even the self proclaimed non-interested or the "it's not a story" types can't stay away from the controversy.

__________________
"It rubs the lotion on Buffy, Jodi and Mr. French's skin" - Uncle Bill from Buffalo