Welcome to circular logic. You treat your own echoing of the nothing as given, and then find the effects of that nothing interesting.

No, I didn't say it was nothing. I believe I said it was "silly". I also didn't specify what part (or parts) of this issue I believe are silly. My use of "non-story" was a sarcastic reference regarding attempts to relegate this phenomenon to nothingness when it is in reality "something". The something is an unintended embarrassingly distracting consequence of Obama and Wright's relationship, the hubbub in the press, the racial overtones, and the continuing controversy that continues to pull the democratic primary down to the lowest denominator. Unfortunately it makes news out of media drama. Why is this so-called non-issue of the 24 hour news cycle forcing everyone (including Obama) to weigh in? It's a very silly ... almost comical ... dance that (apparently) you are also participating in.

This might be true, but it just might be one of those coincidences, not orchestrated by the clintons. Hilary's campaign seems very poorly run, its hard to imagine that they could be so bad at the day to day stuff and so wonderfully Machiavellian with Obama.

If this is enough to bring down Obama, it would be his poor handling of the whole affair that does so. Clinton might end up winning because of it (off chance) but I don't think it would be orchestrated.

I feel its too early to make predictions either way. Nationally I do think Obama would be a bit weaker than Hilary at this point but not so much weaker that it would mean victory for McCain. McCain has an uphill battle IN the party. The one issue voters, and sadly one issue voters tend to dominate both parties, do not like him.

Personally I'd love a McCain/Liberman ticket, it would be a true moderate ticket, but but it would never fly with the party faithful.

Who knows... if they really want to win, this ticket would gain substantial mass appeal.

oh, and a bonus effect ... it would really piss off all the antisemitic idiocracies of the world.

i love the conspiracy theories about the Machiavellian Clinton's using Obama as a pawn. thanks for the laugh

I wonder sometimes about whether Hillary is behind the whole business of Wright going high-profile this past week, or whether it's just Wright looking to stoke his own ego because he knows he can get the attention now that he couldn't get before his congregant ran for President. In the normal course of things I'd think it's the latter, just because, well, people are people and they like attention. But then I hear Christopher Hitchens whispering in my ear his views about the Macchiavellian Clintons and I wonder........

There's a vast left-wing conspiracy afoot to take Obama down.

otto---tonight i am going to a playoff game in boston--it's a long story, but the outcome in this case will be mind-bending---i went to a game once before and sat in the same ridiculous seats as i will tonight---the boston garden is in a sense a temple of television--the enormous monitor dominates the court--the "reality" of the game is what passes across it more than what is happening in 3-d, in a curious way--whenever there is a controversial call, everyone looks up to see the replay. whenever anyone appears on the screen, they become a transient celebrity. it is the theater of the domination of television: lasers emanate from it and strobe across the stands--everything about the space is centered on the electronic tablernacle that floats over it, that determines it, that reflects as it determines.

the wright thing is about television, nothing more nothing less. it is about the power accorded it. it is singular only in the emptiness of the "situation"--but it is because of its situational emptiness that its nature is particularly evident. television is **the**ideological relay system in the united states. television is **the** apparatus of opinion management and co-ordination. in a television dominated context like the election cycle, it is really secondary how little is at stake in any given situation--it becomes something through repetition, and that repetition has effects. one of these effects is this thread. another is what this thread is about in the world. that world is also mediated by television.

that we are still talking about this is an indicator of the power of the medium and our collective servility in the face of it.

so it is nothing--but it is a determinate nothing, an indicator of the black hole at the center of american pseudo-democracy, the boundary condition machine that for the most part frames in what we think and frames out what we do not, frames in "legitimate" views and frames out everything else.

it is a joke, otto, but it's a really fucking big joke and you and i and everyone else lives that joke.

let's talk about hate... shall we.. ???
 

the reverend martin luther king would never talk, nor preach the hate that is black versus white... NEVER... he only wanted equality for all...

let's bring up jessie jackson and al sharpton and now throw in a mix of wright...

where is the rightiousness heading now???

yet, the sanctimonious bullshit that surrounds us is fueled by the media and those that will listen to this rhetorric are further engendered in hatred...

i will say this, those that follow the teachings of mlk and follow this crap in his name are nothing less than those that preach white supremacy...

hatred is all around us, yet the hypocrisy still lives in those that have no mind to grow, rather than accept the wisdom of our predeccessors that we all bleed the same...

let those that preach equality for all look at themselves first, and listen to the "holier than those" later...

it's your choice to be open minded or media driven...

i chose to choose for myself what i think is right rather than have someone else's beliefs forced upon mine...

have a nice life in the next election... :thumbsup:

Quoted for truth and accuracy!!!!!!!

And not just MLK but Lennon, Jesus, Buddha, and so many others...... their words are warped for others gains. How sad that people will follow the hate mongers and not see the truth.

Thank you Hanx for one of the best posts I have ever read!!!!!!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

No doubt, MLK was non-violent, but that doesn't mean he didn't have some very harsh words to say. Calling the United States - his own country - the greatest purveyor of violence in the world is just one example.

It's very true that the words and actions of historical figures are warped to benefit others. It's important, and necessary, for those in power to co-opt popular challenging figures in order to minimize their impact on the status quo. King is a great example of this, as we are constantly treated to selective exerpts of his "I have a dream" speech, while so many of his other words and actions are summarily ignored, because they do not fit into the status quo's preferred image of him. Jesus is another great example, as someone who led a movement which was distinctively political and cultural whose memory has now been integrated into the establishment and a happy-go-lucky dude who just wants us all to get along.

And as much as Lennon was a decent guy...listing him in the same sentence as King is just plain offensive.

You have your opinion and I mine, I see nothing offensive with putting Lennon, Jesus, Buddha and MLK together. They are all men I have great and deep respect and love for, and all I believe conveyed the same messages.

That is my belief.

I'm sorry if it offends you, but every day in our lives we all find something offensive that others may view as something entirely righteous.

So, I'll ask your forgiveness now, because I am sure I will mention and compare favorably those 4 men in sentences again.

But bear in mind, to some what Wright spews is more than just offensive, it is divisive, filled with while inspiring hate towards country and countrymen.

My having Jesus, MLK, Lennon and Buddha in the same sentence, while to you maybe offensive, it does nothing Wright's/Farrakhan's/Robertson's/ etc's words do. The 4 I value and list as heroes, preached love of ALL men.

The others listed preach hatred, divisiveness and jealousy.... and those who follow for 20 years cannot help but be tainted themselves.

I'll support and list my heroes as equals.... you go ahead and find it offensive, it is both of our right.

You happen to support Wright and Obama..... I find that offensive.... it is a right and opinion we are both allowed to have.

I guess we have offended each other..... such is life.

The entire media debacle covering Rev. Wright sickens me. I certainly think that the relationship deserves scrutiny, but the proportionality of media coverage to this event as opposed to others is staggering. Is Rev. Wright really that much more important than the economy? Iraq? The failures of the current administration?

And after the media (correctly) asserts that his remarks are ridiculous for months, they give the man an open forum to express his thoughts, and then replay the video thousands of times over. Can the agenda of the media be any more hypocritical?

And then you have Democrats lambasting Republicans for pushing the issue. Give me a break. As if the Democrats wouldn't do the same if it were McCain. I'm leaning Democrat myself, but it's clear that both parties are to blame for avoiding the tough issues.

I guess it's just easier to discuss a crazy pastor than it is the economy.