Cadscam - The Chuck Cadman Affair - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Ace_O_Spades · 03-03-2008, 08:47 AM

Well, to bring those up to speed on what's been going on recently in Canadian politics:

http://nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=341261

Quote:

OTTAWA -- The chairman of the Commons ethics committee signalled Thursday he is interested in investigating allegations Conservative party representatives tried to ‘entice" Independent MP Chuck Cadman to vote to bring down the Liberal government in 2005 by offering the dying man a $1-million life insurance policy.

Paul Szabo said the committee could explore the information gaps around the allegation, which burst into the public late Wednesday when details of the incident surfaced in a new book, Like a Rock, The Chuck Cadman Story, by Vancouver journalist Tom Zytaruk.

"It definitely would be a Criminal Code violation, extremely serious. It's influence peddling and bribery," Mr. Szabo told CBC television.

But Mr. Szabo also said there are parliamentary consequences if the allegations turn out to be true. If an MP were to be found to be directly or indirectly involved in trying to induce or influence another member's activity, they could lose their seat and be prohibited from running in a future election for five years, he said.

The insurance offer enraged the terminally ill Surrey, B.C., politician, according to author Mr. Zytaruk.

Quoting the late politician's wife Dona, Mr. Zytaruk wrote that the incident occurred in Mr. Cadman's office two days before a confidence vote that could have triggered an election.

Mr. Cadman's was the deciding vote.

"The Tories actually walked in with a list of offers written down on a piece of paper," says an excerpt from the book. "Included in their proposal was a million-dollar life insurance policy -- no small carrot for a man with advanced cancer."

Mr. Zytaruk said Cadman's response -- "bouncing them out of his office" -- was typical of the late North Surrey MP.

Instead, Mr. Cadman voted against an election and supported the Liberal budget, according to what he said his constituents wanted.

Mr. Cadman died in July 2005 after a two-year battle with skin cancer.

Penny Priddy, the New Democratic Party MP who succeeded Mr. Cadman in Parliament, said these were "extremely serious allegations" on which Prime Minister Stephen Harper would be pressed in the Commons and which may be investigated by the ethics committee.

"There has to be an investigation into this," she said.

Ms. Priddy added that if such an offer was made to Mr. Cadman, she is sure he would have told the interlocutors "to get the heck out of his office -- in much stronger language."

An official in Liberal Leader Stephane Dion's office said the government would be questioned about it in the daily Question Period in the Commons.

A statement from the Prime Minister's Office released Wednesday night said Harper "at no time directed any party official to make any kind of financial arrangement with Chuck Cadman."

The daughter corroborates the allegations: Linky

And now apparently the Tories have shot back with a libel lawsuit against the Liberals: Linky

I wrote my MP immediately last week stating I demanded a further inquiry into this matter. Luckily, it seems like the rest of the opposition shares my interest in this matter.

That they might have bribed an MP with no reprocussions is shameful and subverts our parliamentary process, and lets them know they can do it again.

I think this libel suit is going to go nowhere, particularly given some of the evidence that has come forward. But we'll see... Obviously the outcomes of the RCMP investigation will play a big role in that. I'm just happy it's gettin the attention it deserves.

My question is, what do you all think of this? Should it get a full parliamentary investigation or will the RCMP investigation suffice?

The_Jazz · 03-03-2008, 09:16 AM

Not being Canadian, I don't know how much sway an RCMP investigation will hold versus a parlimentarian investigation. I assume that it would be something similar to an FBI investigation in the States, which would satisfy me personally.

Personally, I'm amazed that the Tories would walk in with this offer in writing, even if it was hand-written note. That's so dangerous that I can't believe that any MP would think that it was appropriate or even advisable. It's the one thing that sheds doubt on the story in my eyes.

That doesn't mean that I don't believe that it couldn't have happened exactly as described. Canadian politicisans aren't any smarter than American ones.

My big question, and my reason for posting in this thread: was this the first time that this was attempted, and if not, what happened there?

Ace_O_Spades · 03-03-2008, 11:49 AM

Cadman's widow states Harper didn't know about the bribe:

Link

Quote:

Personal Statement by Dona Cadman

I'm a little bit surprised at the level of reaction to the disclosures in Tom Zytaruk's book and I guess that's probably because it was put to rest in my mind, when I discussed the matter with Stephen Harper, 2 ½ years ago. At that time, I recall specifically asking him if he was aware of a million dollar insurance policy offer, that upset Chuck so much.

He looked me straight in the eyes and told me he had no knowledge of an insurance policy offer. I knew he was telling me the truth; I could see it in his eyes. He said, yes he'd had some discussions with two individuals about asking Chuck to rejoin the party, but he'd told them they were wasting their time trying to convince Chuck.

From that point forward.... I didn't regard it as a "Party" initiative, but rather; the overzealous indiscretion of a couple of individuals.... whose identity, Chuck never revealed to me.

It all comes back to my conversation with the Prime Minister.... 2 ½ years ago. I want to be perfectly clear in that regard. Chuck liked, respected and trusted Stephen Harper. I like, respect and trust Stephen Harper. If I didn't believe in my heart, that he was telling me the truth.... I wouldn't be running as the Conservative Candidate for Surrey North.

Dona Cadman

Kinda lends support to the libel suit, but it looks like she's sticking to her guns. I dunno why she's running as a conservative, Harper has tossed people out of the caucus for looking at someone wrong, let alone bringing a big scandal onto the party.

Might as well just run as an independent

percy · 03-05-2008, 06:42 PM

I am at a point in my life where I have given up on politics and politicians at every level.

If it's not the Tory's trying to embarrass, shame or oust the government, it's the Grit's.

Enough already. Fix the goddamed health care, lower our taxes and do the job you were elected to fucking well do.

All this nonsense from both sides really shows how out of touch these people are with reality - and they are the ones in charge.

Just be proactive and work together and your time to wear the Kings hat will come sooner or later.

Honestly, all our politicians are pathetic. It would be funny if it were not such a joke.

Do something for the people and start acting like adults.

Don't get me started municipally. In Ottawa, thousands were spent on consultants to tell the idiot councillors taxi cab drivers should wear a shirt and dress pants. But these same fucking morons can't seem to figure out why our roads have more fucking craters than the moon. I guess they are waiting for wireless service on the moon before they can reach the consultants up there to provide the knowledge that a room full of grade six kids can figure out. Arggggghhhhh

Anyways, besides that I don't care. Cadman, Shadman, Mickey or Minnie Mouse. It's not going to speed up 18 month waits for hip surgery.

Ace_O_Spades · 03-06-2008, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by percy

I am at a point in my life where I have given up on politics and politicians at every level.

If it's not the Tory's trying to embarrass, shame or oust the government, it's the Grit's.

Enough already. Fix the goddamed health care, lower our taxes and do the job you were elected to fucking well do.

All this nonsense from both sides really shows how out of touch these people are with reality - and they are the ones in charge.

Just be proactive and work together and your time to wear the Kings hat will come sooner or later.

Honestly, all our politicians are pathetic. It would be funny if it were not such a joke.

Do something for the people and start acting like adults.

Don't get me started municipally. In Ottawa, thousands were spent on consultants to tell the idiot councillors taxi cab drivers should wear a shirt and dress pants. But these same fucking morons can't seem to figure out why our roads have more fucking craters than the moon. I guess they are waiting for wireless service on the moon before they can reach the consultants up there to provide the knowledge that a room full of grade six kids can figure out. Arggggghhhhh

Anyways, besides that I don't care. Cadman, Shadman, Mickey or Minnie Mouse. It's not going to speed up 18 month waits for hip surgery.

Maybe switch to decaf?

Anyway, I agree that there are more pressing issues than this, however it is a pretty damn serious allegation and I think it demands a full inquiry. The government should not be allowed to do this kind of thing.

Perhaps you should inquire as to how much the conservatives are spending on their backwards tough on crime agenda... There just might be some potential healthcare dollars sitting in a fund to keep yet another nonviolent drug offender in prison for hundreds of dollars a day.

CandleInTheDark · 03-07-2008, 08:48 AM

The evidence for this is shaky at best. It's all hearsay for now. When something more substantial is presented, then an investigation should delve more deeply into this.

Ace_O_Spades · 03-07-2008, 09:22 AM

This whole thing has proven that even when they are handed fodder on a silver platter the Liberals have trouble handling it. Can't even exploit a scandal properly... What kind of Canadian politicians are they anyway?

CandleInTheDark · 03-08-2008, 04:47 AM

An effective opposition, they are not. I think that if an election was called today, we'd end up with a Conservative majority and NDP as official opposition.

Ace_O_Spades · 03-08-2008, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CandleInTheDark

An effective opposition, they are not. I think that if an election was called today, we'd end up with a Conservative majority and NDP as official opposition.

And then I would leave Canada for five years.

A conservative Canada with the agenda of the Reformers in Harper's caucas, for five years.... Kill me now.

I hear they offer great teaching jobs in Japan for people with university degrees.

Baraka_Guru · 03-08-2008, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CandleInTheDark

An effective opposition, they are not. I think that if an election was called today, we'd end up with a Conservative majority and NDP as official opposition.

This is a stretch.

Recent polls are showing the numbers something like this: Liberal 34%, Conservative 34%, NDP 14%, Bloc 10%, Green 8%.

If you haven't been following these numbers, what has happened is the Tories have slipped to parity with the Liberals. It would be difficult for the Tories to get a majority, especially in light of the scandal. This is despite the Liberals' way of handling it. I could live with another Conservative minority. You know, it wasn't so bad; we just need to keep them on a short leash. If only the Liberals would clean up their act, we wouldn't have to worry about it.

Ace_O_Spades · 03-08-2008, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

we just need to keep them on a short leash.

How do you propose doing that if they get a majority? They'll have five years to ladle their right wing shit onto our heads. C-2, C-26 and C-10... here's your no longer hidden agenda

Baraka_Guru · 03-08-2008, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace_O_Spades

How do you propose doing that if they get a majority? They'll have five years to ladle their right wing shit onto our heads. C-2, C-26 and C-10... here's your no longer hidden agenda

You can't. This is why I'm glad a majority government is unlikely....for the time being.

percy · 03-10-2008, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace_O_Spades

Maybe switch to decaf?

Anyway, I agree that there are more pressing issues than this, however it is a pretty damn serious allegation and I think it demands a full inquiry.

Switch to decaf,...that made me laugh. Should have seen me before I quit drinking coffee

But I like the notion of a full inquiry. I think that should be the governments sole purpose,....having inquiries.

They can muse all day long like Gomery and find basically nothing for 40 million, the Mulroney thing could cost millions and nothing will come of that and go on and on.

Of course the monies to partake in these inquiries will come from the pockets of politicians,...right out of their take home pay.

Let's leave running the country to business people and let the lawyers play in their sandbox of inquiries.

Maybe something will get accomplished then.

Ace_O_Spades · 03-11-2008, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by percy

Switch to decaf,...that made me laugh. Should have seen me before I quit drinking coffee

But I like the notion of a full inquiry. I think that should be the governments sole purpose,....having inquiries.

They can muse all day long like Gomery and find basically nothing for 40 million, the Mulroney thing could cost millions and nothing will come of that and go on and on.

Of course the monies to partake in these inquiries will come from the pockets of politicians,...right out of their take home pay.

Let's leave running the country to business people and let the lawyers play in their sandbox of inquiries.

Maybe something will get accomplished then.

The sarcasm bleeds through my screen and it makes me laugh... Mainly because you assume these things need to be months long and cost millions. What I want is to have the alleged parties all come before parliament and explain themselves, then IF there are suspicions or unanswered questions, refer it to the RCMP who are better equipped to handle it.

This is what happened, and I'm happy.

Clearly you're taking my suggestion to the utmost absurdity... Which doesn't surprise me, given how much of a Harper apologist you are.

percy · 03-12-2008, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace_O_Spades

Clearly you're taking my suggestion to the utmost absurdity... Which doesn't surprise me, given how much of a Harper apologist you are.

Harper apologist? Hardly. I hate all politicians equally. Well maybe some a little more like Bloc politicians. But can't blame them since bleeding heart Canada bows to Quebec and begs for forgiveness when a billion here and there isn't enough to shut them up.

Ooopss sorry. It's francophone week. Shouldn't be so hard on the chosen ones.

And the RCMP??? Have they finished(started?) the inquiries into corruption within their own ranks?

How about someone independant? Who needs a career boost or plum job posting in the next 18 months.

I respect what you're saying, and I think both of us want an accountable government.

But are you really that idealistic that you believe governments can be accountable and if so, that inquiries will be held to a higher standard?

Ace_O_Spades · 03-13-2008, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by percy

But are you really that idealistic that you believe governments can be accountable and if so, that inquiries will be held to a higher standard?

Well, I'll agree with you on that, given the Gomery inquiry's recommendations weren't followed and are actually getting worse under the Tory government.

Yes, I'm idealistic. I'm young, and I have hopes that somehow this fucked up system can change. There is plenty of time for me to be a bitter old fuck who has resigned himself to the fact that he will always be fucked in the ass without lube by the government... Give me my idealistic time god dammit! It's the only lube I'm gonna get for a while.

percy · 03-14-2008, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace_O_Spades

Yes, I'm idealistic. I'm young, and I have hopes that somehow this fucked up system can change. There is plenty of time for me to be a bitter old fuck who has resigned himself to the fact that he will always be fucked in the ass without lube by the government... Give me my idealistic time god dammit! It's the only lube I'm gonna get for a while.

Maybe you should run for office. I thought about it once but then had a conversation one day with a friend of my dad's who use to be a scriptwriter for Trudeau.

He said I would fail miserably in politics. Well, I got very defensive and demanded one good reason why. Know what he said? He said I'd fail because I was too honest. Go figure.

Now in my thirties I realize he was right. Thankfully, or I would probably hate myself.

03-03-2008, 09:16 AM	#2 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	Not being Canadian, I don't know how much sway an RCMP investigation will hold versus a parlimentarian investigation. I assume that it would be something similar to an FBI investigation in the States, which would satisfy me personally. Personally, I'm amazed that the Tories would walk in with this offer in writing, even if it was hand-written note. That's so dangerous that I can't believe that any MP would think that it was appropriate or even advisable. It's the one thing that sheds doubt on the story in my eyes. That doesn't mean that I don't believe that it couldn't have happened exactly as described. Canadian politicisans aren't any smarter than American ones. My big question, and my reason for posting in this thread: was this the first time that this was attempted, and if not, what happened there? __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

03-07-2008, 08:48 AM	#6 (permalink)
CandleInTheDark Addict Location: Where the music's loudest	The evidence for this is shaky at best. It's all hearsay for now. When something more substantial is presented, then an investigation should delve more deeply into this. __________________ Where there is doubt there is freedom.

03-07-2008, 09:22 AM	#7 (permalink)
Ace_O_Spades The Death Card Location: EH!?!?	This whole thing has proven that even when they are handed fodder on a silver platter the Liberals have trouble handling it. Can't even exploit a scandal properly... What kind of Canadian politicians are they anyway? __________________ Feh.

03-08-2008, 04:47 AM	#8 (permalink)
CandleInTheDark Addict Location: Where the music's loudest	An effective opposition, they are not. I think that if an election was called today, we'd end up with a Conservative majority and NDP as official opposition. __________________ Where there is doubt there is freedom.

03-05-2008, 06:42 PM	#4 (permalink)
percy Addict	I am at a point in my life where I have given up on politics and politicians at every level. If it's not the Tory's trying to embarrass, shame or oust the government, it's the Grit's. Enough already. Fix the goddamed health care, lower our taxes and do the job you were elected to fucking well do. All this nonsense from both sides really shows how out of touch these people are with reality - and they are the ones in charge. Just be proactive and work together and your time to wear the Kings hat will come sooner or later. Honestly, all our politicians are pathetic. It would be funny if it were not such a joke. Do something for the people and start acting like adults. Don't get me started municipally. In Ottawa, thousands were spent on consultants to tell the idiot councillors taxi cab drivers should wear a shirt and dress pants. But these same fucking morons can't seem to figure out why our roads have more fucking craters than the moon. I guess they are waiting for wireless service on the moon before they can reach the consultants up there to provide the knowledge that a room full of grade six kids can figure out. Arggggghhhhh Anyways, besides that I don't care. Cadman, Shadman, Mickey or Minnie Mouse. It's not going to speed up 18 month waits for hip surgery.