The left being taken to task? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Liquor Dealer · 06-21-2003, 03:56 PM

This is kinda' long but worth reading! Right Dude?

Salon.com | June 19, 2003

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...le.asp?ID=8471

Something truly extraordinary has been going on in Iran these past few months and especially in the past couple of weeks. A grass-roots, student-run, anti-theocracy movement has reached some sort of critical mass. The enemy is the religious right of Iran, the group of murderous mullahs who have run their country into the ground and now have to answer for their godly tyranny to a new and populous generation of under-30s. Suddenly, we have the possibility of regime change in a critical country without war and without the intervention of the United States.

You'd think that this would be the central story on the left in this country. As blogger Don Watkins explained: "Here are a bunch of brave souls fighting a tyrannical regime through the old liberal favorite of massive protests. Here's the chance for them to get behind the cause of freedom without having to support war."

So take a look at Indymedia, one of the activist left's prime Internet Web sites. Blogger Meryl Yourish did. What did she find on the armed struggle against theocracy? Nada. Zilch. The top stories on San Francisco's Indymedia site were as follows: "Rally & March Against War in Iraq, Philippines & the INS; Anti-war Movement Audio Retrospective -- The Struggle Against Empire; Thousands at punk rock heroine Patti Smith anti-war benefit; Beat Generation Bookstore's 50th Anniversary Draws Huge Crowd."

Meanwhile, there's a story to be told:

"It has become almost routine for us to go out at night, chant slogans, get beaten, lose some of our friends, see our sisters beaten, and then return home. Each night we set to the streets only to be swept away the next dawn by agents of the regime. Two nights ago, on Amirabad Street, we wrote 'Down with Khomeini' on the ground. Before long, the mullah's vigilantes attacked us on their motorcycles. They struck a female student before my eyes so harshly that she was no longer able to walk. As she fell to the ground, four members of Ansaar-e-Hezbollah surrounded her, kicking her. When I and two other students threw stones at them so that they would leave her alone, they threatened us. We escaped into a lane and hid in a house whose owner, an old lady, had left the door open for us. A few minutes later, we saw the young lady being carried away by riot police, her feet dragging on the ground, her shattered teeth hanging out of her still-bleeding mouth. At least three of my best friends have been detained; nobody knows anything about their fate."

Where did this piece appear? The National Review, of course. In fact, the most comprehensive coverage of the nascent Iranian revolution has been on the right. Much of the antiwar left has sadly long since stopped caring about the actual freedom of people under oppressive regimes, except, of course, if their plight is a way to blame or excoriate the United States. The antiwar left's blindness toward the evil of Saddam is now compounded by its refusal to grapple with the next great part of the struggle against Islamo-fascism.

Check out some of the more mainstream publications of the left: The Nation's home page has nothing -- nothing -- about Iran on it. Search for Iran on its Web site and you get more results still gloating over the Iran-Contra scandal than anything that's going on in Iran today. "What Liberal Media?" blogger Eric Alterman has said nothing as the story has unfolded. This magazine has been a little better -- but not by much. The Boston Globe editorialized -- but mainly against what it sees as counterproductive American support for the dissidents. The New York Times has covered the news but has yet to put its full weight behind the story. The BBC, to its credit, has provided several excellent reports.

The question is: Why? Could anyone on the left actually sympathize with the sexist, homophobic, anti-Semitic theocrats in Tehran? Of course not. But it seems that many of them hate the American right more than they hate foreign tyranny. A revolution in Iran might serve to cast a better light on President Bush's Middle East policy -- and that's so terrible a possibility that some leftists simply prefer to look the other way. Lefty blogger Matthew Yglesias let it slip that "these stories about the Iranian student movement have been so relentless hyped on rightwing sites that I think we on the left have been shying away from the story." That's an excuse? Mercifully for Yglesias, it isn't.

If you want to understand better why the American left has been losing every debate it has joined recently, you could do worse than observe its indifference to the fight for freedom in Iran. The position reeks of myopia, self-regard and opportunism. Those qualities are not political winners, and they don't deserve to be. Until the left attends to its principles as meticulously as it attends to its resentments, it will lose the battle for ideas for good. There's still time to reverse this -- and help the cause of human freedom as well. Let's hope the left comes to its senses before the revolution is over.

Salon columnist Andrew Sullivan's commentary appears daily on his own andrewsullivan.com Web site.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The_Dude · 06-21-2003, 04:15 PM

arent you guys quick to jump on anything that goes right?

if i'm not mistaken, i've read for a long time about how student led demostrations have been taking place in iran. i even remember reading about the uprising in my history text book (public school text book, that should tell u somethin about the age)

i do give bush a little credit here.
the war in iraq did add a LITTLE bit more juice into the struggle.

but what the right claims is way exaggerated.

ok, after that point - the ayatollah or whoever that is in control (religious mofo) still control's the security forces. unless they do what the soviet troops did, i dont see this uprising getting anywhere.

i wish the same would happen here, the students rise up against"the religious right". u know what i mean by that ;-)

Lebell · 06-21-2003, 04:56 PM

I believe very much the reason stated in the article:

Many elements of the left hate the right so much that any cause they support is immediately anathema.

Kadath · 06-21-2003, 05:16 PM

Is that supposed to be ironic, Lebell? I hate elements of the right so much that any cause they support is called into question. Examples include Rush, O'Reilly, and that Coulter bitch.

Liquor Dealer · 06-21-2003, 05:20 PM

Dude - what the guys said is where are all of you who have bashed everything done over the past few months - why are all of you not raising hell to support them - Remember when all of you could do nothing but bash the US Government and say we should have waited - helped cause an uprising or something! That's what the writer is asking - why are you guys choosing to ignore this when you were breathing fire over Iraq ?

Lebell · 06-21-2003, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kadath
Is that supposed to be ironic, Lebell? I hate elements of the right so much that any cause they support is called into question. Examples include Rush, O'Reilly, and that Coulter bitch.

No, but your post is certainly Ironic.

The_Dude · 06-21-2003, 05:29 PM

ignore this??

you mean not give too much attention.

anyway, that's because it's been going on for years now. search for this online and you'll find the history of this uprising. trust me, it's been goin on forever.

the story is old and that could be a reason why they dont want to cover it.

Sparhawk · 06-21-2003, 05:41 PM

Sad that hypocritical conservatives, mindful of their own hypocrisy, try to label liberal organizations with their own shameful label.

What I'd like to see is a conservative care about something that isn't on the talk radio or Fox News list of talking points for the day.

The_Dude · 06-21-2003, 06:09 PM

i just did a search for this online and here's a link

http://www.iran-e-azad.org/english/noi/noi-34.html

dates an event on 04/24/95

here's another story

Quote:

Iran students are rising up again, but with more peacefulbent
{SUN 07/26/98}
By ROBIN WRIGHT
Los Angeles Times

TEHRAN, Iran - Alarmed at withering revolutionary zeal and enraged that their shah was visiting the United States, about 80 students gathered secretly on the tree-lined mountain paths that overlook Tehran in the fall of 1979 to plot a demonstration at the American Embassy. It was supposed to last three to five days.

Instead, the sit-in became a mass seizure. And by the time it was over 444 days and 52 hostages later, the world's most famous student body had propelled the Iranian Revolution into a new phase, inspired new extremist tactics throughout the region and ignited a rivalry with a superpower that has lasted a generation.

Today, after years out of the limelight, Iran's students are once again taking to Tehran's streets. Once again, the goal is to correct the revolution's course. And once again, dealings with the United States are a part of it.

This time, however, the energy is largely channeled in a different direction.

"The student movement is now trying to create a peaceful space with emphasis on dialogue and the rule of law. ... We want to create a country with freedoms for everyone, not just one sector, and a society without harshness," said Ali Reza Taheri, one of six leaders of the influential Office for Islamic Unity, this country's largest and most significant student group.

"We want to correct the mistakes of the past, not repeat them," he added.

More than any other sector of society, Iran's students are now redefining the revolution. Mohammad Khatami, the new reformist president, may be the symbol of change to the outside world. But at home he is merely the byproduct of a political phenomenon spearheaded by Iran's youth, who today account for about 65 percent of Iran's 63 million people.

Iran's young, who begin voting at age 15, were the biggest factor in Khatami's election victory last year. And their demonstrations - or mere plans for public rallies - have become the front line of Iran's political battlefield between reformers and conservatives.

The Office for Islamic Unity recently invited former Interior Minister Abdollah Nouri to give a speech at Tehran University that turned into a raucous rally - and potentially a political turning point.

Nouri, a leading reformer who was impeached last month by the conservative-dominated Parliament, told a cheering throng of students that the campaign to force him out of power had exposed the conservatives' goal of undoing the new government by blocking reform.

"After the vote of no confidence, everything has become clear about the position of the majority of deputies against the government and Khatami," he said to roaring chants of support.

Nouri's authorization of several earlier student rallies was one reason that 31 members of Parliament called for his impeachment. But in a defiant twist, within an hour of the no-confidence vote, Khatami appointed Nouri vice president for political development and social affairs - code words in Iran for reform.

The student protests have picked up steam, drawing dramatic responses and framing the country's political debate:

On March 2, about 3,000 students rallied at Tehran University's leafy downtown campus to challenge the right of the Council of Guardians, a religious oversight committee, to vet political candidates' qualifications on moral and ideological grounds. The process eliminated several pro-Khatami candidates for March 13 Parliament by-elections - as well as thousands of candidates in national and presidential polls over the past decade.

Demonstrators charged conservative "monopolists" with trying to "appoint people to Parliament" rather than letting them be freely elected. In rhythmic unison, they repeatedly shouted, "Hail freedom!"

Religious thugs with Ansar-e Hezbollah, or Helpers of the Party of God, attacked the crowd. Riot police eventually broke up the clashes, which left dozens injured.

The Office for Islamic Unity planned a major protest April 14 against the arrest of Iran's reformist mayor, Gholam-Hossein Karbaschi, who was also the president's campaign manager.

"We don't support Karbaschi because he is the mayor. Before being a mayor he is a citizen, and we object to the violation of a citizen's rights," said Maysam Saeedi, one of the group's leaders.

In part to prevent the rally and its potential consequences, a behind-the-scenes deal was struck to release Karbaschi from prison until his trial.

Despite the last-minute cancellation, hundreds of students still turned out. Again, Ansar militants attacked. Again, clashes ensued.

Chanting and waving pictures of the turbaned president, tens of thousands of students turned out at Tehran University on May 23 to mark the first anniversary of Khatami's election. It also became a forum for condemning conservatives and demanding further reforms. One group of demonstrators shouted for the resignation of Iran's chief Supreme Court justice, who had ordered the Tehran mayor's arrest.

Two days later, 2,000 turned out at a rally sponsored by the Union of Islamic Students and Graduates to demand that women and non-clerics be allowed to run this fall for the powerful Assembly of Experts, the group of 83 clergy members who select and can dismiss Iran's supreme religious leader.

"The purpose of our revolution was to allow us to breathe in a free atmosphere," Union leader Heshmatollah Tabarzadi told the crowd in Tulip Park.

Ansar thugs responded by pelting the platform with rocks and beating students. Police used tear gas to disperse the crowd.

"Students are the engine of change in Iran," said Tehran University political scientist Nasser Hadian. "Their sheer numbers give them more weight than in other societies."

Student power has now put conservatives on the defensive. Parliament, which is dominated by conservatives, recently took up legislation raising the voting age to 18. Khatami's victory has ignited fear that they will be the next to go in elections in 2000.

Three days after the Khatami anniversary rally, conservative clerics in the religious center of Qom organized their own rally to protest the behavior of pro-democracy students.

so, does clinton get credit for it thru his foreign policy?

i cant post a link cuz i'm accesing thru subscriber archives and link wont work if i post it.

Sparhawk · 06-21-2003, 06:24 PM

Dude, what's the date on that story, out of curiosity?

The_Dude · 06-21-2003, 06:27 PM

bah, how could i miss that, i guess i thought i copied it

anyway, it was posted on SUN 07/26/98

smooth · 06-21-2003, 07:53 PM

To directly answer the original point:

Indy media sources aren't ignoring the subject. The author went to one source and cited it as the focal point of liberal thought. Well, alternet.org has been running stories regarding Iran for at least as long as corporate media.

btw, this seems contrary to the usual assertion--that the media is dominated by liberals. The author didn't cite any mainstream sources as liberal sources refusing to lead the story.

seretogis · 06-21-2003, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by smooth
The author didn't cite any mainstream sources as liberal sources refusing to lead the story.

The New York Times is cited, which is the model for all wannabe-liberal-newspapers in the country.

Quote:

Check out some of the more mainstream publications of the left: The Nation's home page has nothing -- nothing -- about Iran on it. Search for Iran on its Web site and you get more results still gloating over the Iran-Contra scandal than anything that's going on in Iran today. "What Liberal Media?" blogger Eric Alterman has said nothing as the story has unfolded. This magazine has been a little better -- but not by much. The Boston Globe editorialized -- but mainly against what it sees as counterproductive American support for the dissidents. The New York Times has covered the news but has yet to put its full weight behind the story. The BBC, to its credit, has provided several excellent reports.

Kadath · 06-21-2003, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lebell
No, but your post is certainly Ironic.

You appear to have a nodding acquaintence with the concept of irony.

seretogis · 06-22-2003, 02:26 AM

By the way, the Star Tribune, one of the most liberal "big city" papers in the nation, has nothing that I could find about the Iranian students protesting for political change.

In other news, here is a quote from an article from the Portland Phoenix. It is indirectly related to this thread, and so I hope not too off-topic.

LINK!

Quote:

And National Public Radio, which is almost religiously left of center in the bulk of its programming, hosts, and favored guests, has become one of America’s primary venues for Israel-bashing. Israel is problematic for liberals, who were once its strongest champions. Since liberals think supposedly "downtrodden" groups are justified in their actions, Israel now acts as a litmus test of the liberal-conservative chasm. This state of affairs marks an amazing 180-degree turn; until recently the right was neither philo-Semitic nor staunchly pro-Israel, and now it is. Meanwhile, the left has turned tail, fawningly adoring the new Holocaust-denier prime minister of the Palestine Authority and taking a tearful stance toward the presumed plight of the Palestinians — whose situation, though NPR and such cannot bear to say it, is the fault of Yasser Arafat’s gang.

The_Dude · 06-22-2003, 09:44 AM

i still dont get it. they expect newspapers to give a story about iran front page coverage just cuz bush said this would happen?

btw, this has already been happeing for years now and bush just said what happened, not what will happen

Macheath · 06-22-2003, 10:55 AM

um, could we have a show of hands as to how many people regard www.salon.com as an exclusively "right wing" website.

seretogis · 06-22-2003, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Macheath
um, could we have a show of hands as to how many people regard www.salon.com as an exclusively "right wing" website.

salon.com is about as right-wing as Hillary Clinton.

smooth · 06-22-2003, 11:07 AM

Seretogis,

I distinguish between conservative, liberal, and corporate media sources.

In direct response to your point, however, the section you quoted specifically stated that the Times actually did lead stories regarding Iran.

None of the other sources in that same paragraph refused to run the stories, either.

Is your complaint that such sources aren't covering the topic at all or that they aren't covering it as much as you'd like? I didn't realize (assuming they are catering to liberal interests) that your opinion on their coverage even matters.

Macheath · 06-22-2003, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by seretogis
salon.com is about as right-wing as Hillary Clinton.

So you could say that this Salon article that criticises the left wing media for ignoring the plight of the Iranians is an example of a left wing media source highlighing the plight of the Iranians.

Ironic huh.

The_Dude · 06-22-2003, 03:42 PM

nice one macheath. i didnt even see that coming

Conclamo Ludus · 06-26-2003, 11:20 AM

Interesting article. While it might be gratifying to point this out to the left, and it might be horrible for the anti-war protestors image, meanwhile these Iranians are getting screwed. Sad. Does anybody care about Iran? The Left wants to rant about the Right pointing it out and the Right wants rant about the Left not pointing it out. Who is going to help Iranians?

geep · 06-26-2003, 01:54 PM

The left did try to help Iranian students, once, right down to the point of helping to organize demonstrations on U.S. campuses in which Iranian students marched in circles holding signs with paper bags over their heads, so they would not be recognized by the hated Shah's secret police. The Shah was finally deposed and a new Iranian regime, more bloodthirsty than the Shah's rose to take it's place. Many liberals spent much political capital opposing the Shah as an example of the U.S. propping up dictators around the world. When the student demonstrators stormed the U.S. embassy in Tehran, some even went so far as to say "See- this is what you get for supporting dictators." After it became apparent that the Ayathollah was no better than the Shah, liberals just sort of lost interest in Iran. After all, here was a brutal totalitarian government that they could no longer blame on the U.S. and could even be somewhat culpable for themselves. The conservatives being somewhat timid about challenging the Left, perhaps afraid of being labeled as "opportunists" (liberals used "name calling" tactics very successfully during the Vietnam-Civil Rights era) , missed a golden opportunity with the Lefts glaring miscalculation of Iranian politics. Since the release of the hostages, Iran has been left to simmer seemingly unnoticed by the agendas of either right or left.

grumpyolddude · 06-29-2003, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Conclamo Ludus
Interesting article. While it might be gratifying to point this out to the left, and it might be horrible for the anti-war protestors image, meanwhile these Iranians are getting screwed. Sad. Does anybody care about Iran? The Left wants to rant about the Right pointing it out and the Right wants rant about the Left not pointing it out. Who is going to help Iranians?

Excellent Conclamo! Most of these posters seem more interested in counting coup against the other side of the aisle than in a serious discussion of issues. Finger pointing and chest pounding, day after day, post after post!

Ace_of_Lobster · 06-30-2003, 04:18 PM

>>Who is going to help Iranians?

Maybe the Iranians should help themselves?

grumpyolddude · 06-30-2003, 08:41 PM

So far, Ace, it would seem that the Iranian/American population isn't as motivated as the Iraqi/Americans are. until there is a real face on the situation, US public outcry will be insignificant. The Iranians and their supporters need to play the US press for coverage.... then things will begin to happen.

Phaenx · 06-30-2003, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kadath
I hate elements of the right so much that any cause they support is called into question. Examples include Rush, O'Reilly, and that Coulter bitch.

You don't like us? That's too bad, I like you, it says so on a balloon I bought for you, it's in the mail.

06-21-2003, 03:56 PM	#1 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	The left being taken to task? This is kinda' long but worth reading! Right Dude? Salon.com \| June 19, 2003 http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...le.asp?ID=8471 Something truly extraordinary has been going on in Iran these past few months and especially in the past couple of weeks. A grass-roots, student-run, anti-theocracy movement has reached some sort of critical mass. The enemy is the religious right of Iran, the group of murderous mullahs who have run their country into the ground and now have to answer for their godly tyranny to a new and populous generation of under-30s. Suddenly, we have the possibility of regime change in a critical country without war and without the intervention of the United States. You'd think that this would be the central story on the left in this country. As blogger Don Watkins explained: "Here are a bunch of brave souls fighting a tyrannical regime through the old liberal favorite of massive protests. Here's the chance for them to get behind the cause of freedom without having to support war." So take a look at Indymedia, one of the activist left's prime Internet Web sites. Blogger Meryl Yourish did. What did she find on the armed struggle against theocracy? Nada. Zilch. The top stories on San Francisco's Indymedia site were as follows: "Rally & March Against War in Iraq, Philippines & the INS; Anti-war Movement Audio Retrospective -- The Struggle Against Empire; Thousands at punk rock heroine Patti Smith anti-war benefit; Beat Generation Bookstore's 50th Anniversary Draws Huge Crowd." Meanwhile, there's a story to be told: "It has become almost routine for us to go out at night, chant slogans, get beaten, lose some of our friends, see our sisters beaten, and then return home. Each night we set to the streets only to be swept away the next dawn by agents of the regime. Two nights ago, on Amirabad Street, we wrote 'Down with Khomeini' on the ground. Before long, the mullah's vigilantes attacked us on their motorcycles. They struck a female student before my eyes so harshly that she was no longer able to walk. As she fell to the ground, four members of Ansaar-e-Hezbollah surrounded her, kicking her. When I and two other students threw stones at them so that they would leave her alone, they threatened us. We escaped into a lane and hid in a house whose owner, an old lady, had left the door open for us. A few minutes later, we saw the young lady being carried away by riot police, her feet dragging on the ground, her shattered teeth hanging out of her still-bleeding mouth. At least three of my best friends have been detained; nobody knows anything about their fate." Where did this piece appear? The National Review, of course. In fact, the most comprehensive coverage of the nascent Iranian revolution has been on the right. Much of the antiwar left has sadly long since stopped caring about the actual freedom of people under oppressive regimes, except, of course, if their plight is a way to blame or excoriate the United States. The antiwar left's blindness toward the evil of Saddam is now compounded by its refusal to grapple with the next great part of the struggle against Islamo-fascism. Check out some of the more mainstream publications of the left: The Nation's home page has nothing -- nothing -- about Iran on it. Search for Iran on its Web site and you get more results still gloating over the Iran-Contra scandal than anything that's going on in Iran today. "What Liberal Media?" blogger Eric Alterman has said nothing as the story has unfolded. This magazine has been a little better -- but not by much. The Boston Globe editorialized -- but mainly against what it sees as counterproductive American support for the dissidents. The New York Times has covered the news but has yet to put its full weight behind the story. The BBC, to its credit, has provided several excellent reports. The question is: Why? Could anyone on the left actually sympathize with the sexist, homophobic, anti-Semitic theocrats in Tehran? Of course not. But it seems that many of them hate the American right more than they hate foreign tyranny. A revolution in Iran might serve to cast a better light on President Bush's Middle East policy -- and that's so terrible a possibility that some leftists simply prefer to look the other way. Lefty blogger Matthew Yglesias let it slip that "these stories about the Iranian student movement have been so relentless hyped on rightwing sites that I think we on the left have been shying away from the story." That's an excuse? Mercifully for Yglesias, it isn't. If you want to understand better why the American left has been losing every debate it has joined recently, you could do worse than observe its indifference to the fight for freedom in Iran. The position reeks of myopia, self-regard and opportunism. Those qualities are not political winners, and they don't deserve to be. Until the left attends to its principles as meticulously as it attends to its resentments, it will lose the battle for ideas for good. There's still time to reverse this -- and help the cause of human freedom as well. Let's hope the left comes to its senses before the revolution is over. Salon columnist Andrew Sullivan's commentary appears daily on his own andrewsullivan.com Web site. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!! Last edited by Liquor Dealer; 06-22-2003 at 06:57 PM..

06-21-2003, 04:15 PM	#2 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	arent you guys quick to jump on anything that goes right? if i'm not mistaken, i've read for a long time about how student led demostrations have been taking place in iran. i even remember reading about the uprising in my history text book (public school text book, that should tell u somethin about the age) i do give bush a little credit here. the war in iraq did add a LITTLE bit more juice into the struggle. but what the right claims is way exaggerated. ok, after that point - the ayatollah or whoever that is in control (religious mofo) still control's the security forces. unless they do what the soviet troops did, i dont see this uprising getting anywhere. i wish the same would happen here, the students rise up against"the religious right". u know what i mean by that ;-) __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

06-21-2003, 04:56 PM	#3 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	I believe very much the reason stated in the article: Many elements of the left hate the right so much that any cause they support is immediately anathema. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

06-21-2003, 05:16 PM	#4 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	Is that supposed to be ironic, Lebell? I hate elements of the right so much that any cause they support is called into question. Examples include Rush, O'Reilly, and that Coulter bitch. __________________ it's quiet in here

06-21-2003, 05:20 PM	#5 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	Dude - what the guys said is where are all of you who have bashed everything done over the past few months - why are all of you not raising hell to support them - Remember when all of you could do nothing but bash the US Government and say we should have waited - helped cause an uprising or something! That's what the writer is asking - why are you guys choosing to ignore this when you were breathing fire over Iraq ? __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

06-21-2003, 05:29 PM	#7 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	ignore this?? you mean not give too much attention. anyway, that's because it's been going on for years now. search for this online and you'll find the history of this uprising. trust me, it's been goin on forever. the story is old and that could be a reason why they dont want to cover it. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

06-21-2003, 05:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
Sparhawk Dubya Location: VA	Sad that hypocritical conservatives, mindful of their own hypocrisy, try to label liberal organizations with their own shameful label. What I'd like to see is a conservative care about something that isn't on the talk radio or Fox News list of talking points for the day. __________________ "In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

06-21-2003, 06:24 PM	#10 (permalink)
Sparhawk Dubya Location: VA	Dude, what's the date on that story, out of curiosity? __________________ "In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

06-21-2003, 06:27 PM	#11 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	bah, how could i miss that, i guess i thought i copied it anyway, it was posted on SUN 07/26/98 __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

06-21-2003, 07:53 PM	#12 (permalink)
smooth Junkie Location: Right here	To directly answer the original point: Indy media sources aren't ignoring the subject. The author went to one source and cited it as the focal point of liberal thought. Well, alternet.org has been running stories regarding Iran for at least as long as corporate media. btw, this seems contrary to the usual assertion--that the media is dominated by liberals. The author didn't cite any mainstream sources as liberal sources refusing to lead the story. __________________ "The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

06-22-2003, 09:44 AM	#16 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	i still dont get it. they expect newspapers to give a story about iran front page coverage just cuz bush said this would happen? btw, this has already been happeing for years now and bush just said what happened, not what will happen __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

06-22-2003, 10:55 AM	#17 (permalink)
Macheath Junkie Location: Sydney, Australia	um, could we have a show of hands as to how many people regard www.salon.com as an exclusively "right wing" website.

06-22-2003, 11:07 AM	#19 (permalink)
smooth Junkie Location: Right here	Seretogis, I distinguish between conservative, liberal, and corporate media sources. In direct response to your point, however, the section you quoted specifically stated that the Times actually did lead stories regarding Iran. None of the other sources in that same paragraph refused to run the stories, either. Is your complaint that such sources aren't covering the topic at all or that they aren't covering it as much as you'd like? I didn't realize (assuming they are catering to liberal interests) that your opinion on their coverage even matters. __________________ "The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann "You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

06-22-2003, 03:42 PM	#21 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	nice one macheath. i didnt even see that coming __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

06-26-2003, 11:20 AM	#22 (permalink)
Conclamo Ludus Modern Man Location: West Michigan	Interesting article. While it might be gratifying to point this out to the left, and it might be horrible for the anti-war protestors image, meanwhile these Iranians are getting screwed. Sad. Does anybody care about Iran? The Left wants to rant about the Right pointing it out and the Right wants rant about the Left not pointing it out. Who is going to help Iranians? __________________ Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold. -Son House, Death Letter Blues

06-26-2003, 01:54 PM	#23 (permalink)
geep Insane Location: Imprisoned in Ecotopia	The left did try to help Iranian students, once, right down to the point of helping to organize demonstrations on U.S. campuses in which Iranian students marched in circles holding signs with paper bags over their heads, so they would not be recognized by the hated Shah's secret police. The Shah was finally deposed and a new Iranian regime, more bloodthirsty than the Shah's rose to take it's place. Many liberals spent much political capital opposing the Shah as an example of the U.S. propping up dictators around the world. When the student demonstrators stormed the U.S. embassy in Tehran, some even went so far as to say "See- this is what you get for supporting dictators." After it became apparent that the Ayathollah was no better than the Shah, liberals just sort of lost interest in Iran. After all, here was a brutal totalitarian government that they could no longer blame on the U.S. and could even be somewhat culpable for themselves. The conservatives being somewhat timid about challenging the Left, perhaps afraid of being labeled as "opportunists" (liberals used "name calling" tactics very successfully during the Vietnam-Civil Rights era) , missed a golden opportunity with the Lefts glaring miscalculation of Iranian politics. Since the release of the hostages, Iran has been left to simmer seemingly unnoticed by the agendas of either right or left.

06-30-2003, 04:18 PM	#25 (permalink)
Ace_of_Lobster Crazy	>>Who is going to help Iranians? Maybe the Iranians should help themselves? __________________ "Hundreds of men must have told you how beautiful you are. Would you displease the gods to hear it once more? I wouldn't. Im young and I hope to see a god before I die." -Patera Silk

06-30-2003, 08:41 PM	#26 (permalink)
grumpyolddude Deliberately unfocused Location: Amazon.com and CDBaby	So far, Ace, it would seem that the Iranian/American population isn't as motivated as the Iraqi/Americans are. until there is a real face on the situation, US public outcry will be insignificant. The Iranians and their supporters need to play the US press for coverage.... then things will begin to happen. __________________ "Regret can be a harder pill to swallow than failure .With failure you at least know you gave it a chance..." David Howard