The_Dude

where there was only one candidate on the ballot and the CPSU had the right to veto the election whenever they pleased?

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"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

papermachesatan

Any election held by the Soviet Union was purely for show.

Yes, certain steps must be taken to ensure true democracy/republic(i.e. secret ballets).

Voting in policy that WILL create a aristocracy is the surest way to screw democracy and screw the majority in the U.S. though.

papermachesatan

Sun Tzu, do you have a link where Rush Limbaugh supports this?

geep

I couldn't agree more. So tell me- what role to lobbies play in a Democracy/Republic. Could this "level" of voting count as an "Aristocracy"?

Sun Tzu

Whats stopping John from opening his own Quickee Mart?

Ive just played devils advocate here, I dont think paying more taxes should equal more votes, but I also dont agree with the more money I create for myself the more I should pay in taxes. I never really had thought about it to much until I heard this frictional idea on Rush. I dont have the answer, but I dont think Socialism is the way to go.

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

papermachesatan

Not really. While they wield high degrees of influence, they don't actually vote in the legislature nor can they physically put someone in Congress. Rich people with a vast number of votes would be able to physically put someone into Congress, the White House, etc.

papermachesatan

The tree's inability to grow money.

If we could charge the guy making $50,000 a year the same as the guy who makes $600,000 a year with out totally ruining the guy making $50,000 a year, we would. It's not that we're out to rip off the rich, it's just that we can't wring more out of the less wealthy guys.

Sun Tzu

I'll post a few links on how to get small business loans if you like, but I think you may probably be able to find them. It all boils down to intent. If a person is 100% intent on makeing something happen; they will. If a person has 99% intent on making something happen they wont.

I appreciate what your saying about money on tree and I agree, but not every millionare is born with a silver spoon in their mouth; some even come from poverty. We all have the tools to make it happen; it comesdown to what were willing to sacrifice. Whether it be time, physical labor, pride, etc.

What about taking the end sum of what the US brings in divide that by the amount of registered voters or the amount of people that pay taxes and have everyone pay the same thing (with adjustments for dependents?

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

The_Dude

that wouldnt work. you should tax a percentage of what people make, and not a flat amount.

i agree that progressive tax is unfair, but let's face the facts. the govt just wont run on a flat tax.

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"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

geep

I disagree that it won't work as it is already a proven device in some states. 6 states have a flat tax rate and while 4 have modifiers to adjust income, 2 states have a simple flat rate tax structure. The biggest reason to discredit a flat tax rate on a national level seems to be the large volume of employees the IRS has. What would they do for a living if we had a flat tax?

papermachesatan

Please do post links. No one deserves to lose their right to have a voice in their government just because they don't have the drive or aren't willing to make the sacrifices(which can be hefty) to become rich.

You're still going to get people who are ruined by a flat tax, especially if split the number among a smaller group of people(i.e. registered voters).

Flat Tax screws the people who are the group who can illafford the monetary losses the most.

Sun Tzu

http://www.cfda.gov/default.htm

http://www.entrepreneur.com/howto/ra...,5964,,00.html

http://www.federalmoneyretriever.com...s/func_ndx.htm

www.sba.gov/financing/

http://www.businessfinance.com/

www.small-business-grants.com/

http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/call/loans.htm

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/w...blsbalinks.htm


http://www.firstgov.gov/Business/Nonprofit.shtml

www.lib.lsu.edu/gov/faq/faq.html

I mentioned in the beginning I heard this suggestion on a politcal show the I dont really care for (dont ask me why I was listening). I mentioned I didnt agree with what the man was saying, but I understand the point of questioning the tax scale. I dont think its fair. I stadard of living being higher is expected, otherwise why strive for financial liberty. When Im in the position to contribute; I will without question because I know being outwardly focused creates a better social environment. I dont agree with someone being forced to compensate for others.

As far as taxes go Im actually one of those "CT" people who believes that the IRS isnt part of the federal government but a collection agency for the Federal Reserve Bank (a privately owned entity) its hard for me to trust anything that goes on. Instead of frustrating myself and going agaisnt the grain; Im learning to play the game.

Socialism has a bleak esistence; I think people are capable of so much more. This is my opinion, and I still have allot to learn.

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

papermachesatan

You have a flat tax and you shift the burdeon from the super rich to the middle classes. Yes, the rich are inadvertedly being penalized for being rich but you don't any choice other than screwing the people who can't afford to lose money like the rich can or drastically eliminate the amount of revenues the country pulls in.


I agree but I think the above quote is somewhat irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Sun Tzu

The only reason I mention it is because it goes full circle to the mans "frictional" suggestion that if he is going to be penalized he fills its only fair to get something for his money. In his mind the only avenue is votes; which I dont agree with.

I wont claim to be an expert as I stated before; but isnt what happens when the someone that has made more money than someone else pays more titering on socialism?

I would think that a flat tax would screw people if there were no tools or rights to progress their situation. I know about the working class; Im part of it (for the time being) I want to plow ahead to create financial liberty in my life, not to have the opportunity or privilege to give more to the federal reserve.

I cant stop thinking of the gas anaolgy earilier: why should I pay $5 more per gallon at the same pump than another person, and of I do what am I getting in return?

I dont have an answer its a siutation that were all having to deal with reguardless of what we think. I dont agree with working towards a financial goal only to have to end up paying more because of several factors; some are understandably complex. Others such as members that dont contribute anything other than to cause my taxes to go up.

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking