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10-25-2007, 06:49 AM | #121 (permalink) |
Location: Washington DC
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ace...a NO vote from a tobacco state? What a surpise.
BTW, NC is also receiving $3.9 billion over the next 10 years as payment for Bush's 2004 program to end federal subsidies of tobacco. http://www.nccob.org/NCCOB/Financial...accoBuyout.htm Thats a nice chunk of change for NC tobacco growers to ease the pain of withdrawal from years of getting "welfare" from the feds for growing an addictive product.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire |
10-25-2007, 07:08 AM | #122 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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It get tiresome hearing the same talking point over and over from the left saying anyone who is against SCHIP is against helping poor children. Perhaps it is time for a new talking point. Don't you agree?
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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10-25-2007, 07:11 AM | #123 (permalink) | |||
Banned
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....anything for a buck....ehhh, ace? The congressmen from NC mentioned in your posts should be impeached....they are tools of the special interests who are the foundation for my argument about the "two tier" malignancy in the US that results in the superior numbers of "have nots" in the US, "taking it" in the nether regions from the buying out of the political power due them by the wealthy elite. Would a congressman who works for the greater good....a sincere representative of his constituents allow himself to have his vote (it isn't "his" vote...he's supposed to bring the collective will of his constituents to congress, or he should get the eff out....cede his privileges to someone who will vote the people's will..or in their best interests....) "bought" by corporations with profits greatly enhanced by...buying away populist political influence.....
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10-25-2007, 07:15 AM | #124 (permalink) | |
Location: Washington DC
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In general, I agree with your observation/complaint, but lets not pretend that kind of rhetoric is only a "left" thing. I would suggest that it gets tiresome hearing the same talking points over and over from the right saying anyone opposed to Bush's war policy is weak on terrorism and against our men and women in uniform. edit: I thnk Host summed up the influence of the tobacco industy pretty well....an industry with a hell of a lot more money to influence public policy than child advocacy organizations. BTW....Cong. Robin Hayes (R-NC) who opposed this bill is in the top 10 recipients (out of 535 members of House and Senate) in contributions from agribusiness....to the tune of nearly $1/4 million in 06: http://opensecrets.org/politicians/s...315&cycle=2006
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 10-25-2007 at 10:36 AM.. |
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10-25-2007, 01:15 PM | #125 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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I think he laid out a good argument for the people in North Carolina to consider, if the net cost is greater than the net benefit - why should anyone in the state support the bill? Yes, you can dispute his numbers, but you can not dispute the fact that some states will send more money for the program than they get back in services for the program.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
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10-25-2007, 01:54 PM | #126 (permalink) | |
Location: Washington DC
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I dont have a`problem with people who oppose the bill on philosophical or cost grounds. I do have a problem when they misrepresent the bill (like Bush and many Repub members of Congress did or those who say it is unconstitutional) or those who complain about its impact in a vaccum. The net loss in NC, if in fact the study is correct, is more than offset by the $3.9 billion of tax dollars over the next 10 years from you, me and the rest of the country, to wean NC off of 50+ years of federal tobacco subsidies and prices supports (again paid all those years by tax revenue from you, me and other non-carolinians). There are winners and losers among the states in most every federal categorical and block grant program, just as there are winners and losers among the states when it comes to overall federal spending by state per dollar of federal taxes. NC gets back $1.10 in federal spending for every $1.00 in federal taxes. I dont think Cong. Hayes would complain about that....but Hillary, Barak, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi should raise hell
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 10-25-2007 at 03:22 PM.. Reason: added map |
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10-26-2007, 06:33 AM | #127 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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I have already made the point that it is inefficient to have the federal government funding state programs compared to the states collecting and spending money on their own programs. Federal spending should be for the common good. I think health care for children is a common good issue and should not be subject to the wealth or whims of individual states. Every child should be treated the same, address should not be a factor.
Also the fundamental problem with the tobacco tax to fund this program is not only is it regressive in nature, but it is asking a specific group to pay for a program that we all should pay for. It is pretty easy to shout lets do the right thing and then ask someone else to pay for it. If this program passes it should be paid for through general funds.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." |
10-26-2007, 08:30 AM | #128 (permalink) | |
Banned
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I'll support your "every state on it's own"....independently raising taxes to sustain it's own programs....and when your changes take effect...and the impact of them is felt..... I have your approval to leaflet the residents of these two states: http://www.statehealthfacts.org/prof...6&cat=1&ind=10 http://www.statehealthfacts.org/prof...0&cat=1&ind=10 .....to inform and encourage them to move to your county. I'll use a catchy slogan like..... there is more quality of life and better opportunity awaiting in ace's county.....even if I have to camp in a vacant lot there....or sleep on a park bench....than there is living where I live now..... |
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10-26-2007, 10:58 AM | #130 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: Ventura County
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Again the data you reference requires more analysis prior to reaching accurate conclusions. Certainly the national poverty level is an interesting number, but it is more or less an average. I am certain that what is hardly livable in Ventura County, California would be a good standard of living in Mississippi. Also, don't misinterpret my position. If people in a state are sending money to Washington to support a state program, then Washington sends the money back, at the very least less will come back to the state just to cover the Federal overhead. That is wasteful. If a state needs to be subsidized for some reason, call it what it is. Otherwise national issues are national issues. Health, education and welfare of children is a national issue in my opinion. Every child in this country should have food, clothing, shelter, education, medical, and a responsible and caring guardian or parent(s). I have no sympathy for adults who have made poor choices unless they are disabled or a senior citizen. My view is not complicated. Quote:
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." Last edited by aceventura3; 10-26-2007 at 11:03 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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bill, bush, children, congress, country, healthcare, poor, vetoes, wishes |
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