tecoyah

Whether you think personally, that the secret wiretap programs are OK, or Illegal, There needs to be a public understanding of what is going on....and as it is not likely the Administration will be forthcoming it is up to the justice system now, to force the information into the public domain. By attempting to circumvent the very fabric of how we function as a society, these people are blatantly disregarding the public right to information that effects life in this country.

If they succeed, I weep for the loss of freedom.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20884696...wsweek/page/0/

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

dc_dux

We could discuss this, but then, according to Mike McConnell, the Director of National Intelligence, if we do, "some Americans will die":
I'll take the chance that al Queda operatives are not monitoring the TFP political board and American lives are not at risk as a result of this discussion.

Its bad enough that the hastily enacted (with Democratic complicity) Protect America Act effectively requires the telcomms to provide any information on citizens requested by the DoJ, FBI or DNI without a warrant, but it gives the telcomms immunity.

But evidently thats not enough. Bush wants retroactive immunity for the illegal actions taken by the telcomms (or any private third party) for the four years prior to the bill's enactment several months ago...actions the telcomms "allegedly" took, according to the White House, in a post 9-11 patriotic fervor"

Our Work Is Not Done -- This Act Is A Temporary, Narrowly Focused Statute To Deal With The Most Immediate Needs Of The Intelligence Community To Protect The Country. When Congress returns in September, the Intelligence Committees and leaders in both parties will need to complete work on the comprehensive reforms requested by Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell, including the important issues of providing meaningful liability protection to those who are alleged to have assisted our Nation following the attacks of September 11, 2001.

The pressure from the WH will be intense in the coming months as Congress moves to modify (and extend) the Protect America Act beyond its current expiration date at the end of this year.

If you care about your 4th amendment rights, contact your members of Congress and say NO to wiretaps or surveillance of citizens without a warrant or Congressional or judicial oversight and NO to immunity to any third party (telcomms and others) who voluntarily provide access to your personal data without a warrant.

From the ACLU: Fact sheet on the Protect America Act.


From the Populist Party: Kill the "Protect" America Act

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"The perfect is the enemy of the good."
~ Voltaire

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Willravel

We need to decide not only if we're at war or not, but if we're at war with our government and larger corporations.
[QUOTEAmong those coordinating the industry’s effort are two well-connected capital players who both worked for President George H.W. Bush: Verizon general counsel William Barr, who served as attorney general under 41, and AT&T senior executive vice president James Cicconi, who was the elder Bush's deputy chief of staff.[/QUOTE]
Verizon and AT&T are the culprits for anyone who was wondering.

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pan6467

All you really need to know is said in these videos by Henry Rollins and George Carlin.






You need to really hear the George W quotes taken from his press conferences at the end of Carlin's video......

We need to wake the fuck up. All this BS about fighting terrorism is an excuse to rip our rights out from under us and let "the Owners" own we the people. If the "War on Terrorism" were a fact... then don't you think we'd be protecting our border with Mexico a lot more securely and NOT so eager to give illegals amnesty?

Oh I forgot... there aren't any terrorists sneaking through, they are all hard working law abiding citizens jumping our borders, I'm being a bigot, prejudicial, supremacist who has no idea what he is talking about (that's according to some on this board who have argued this issue with me)..... and besides there are other, far easier ways for terrorists to get here. Really? How?

They want us dependent, they want us to be indebted.... and as long as we have a far off boogey man that threatens "our way of life", the press, politicians and corporations can continue to brainwash us into allowing those rights to be GIVEN away to the government.

And for those who think the Democrats will save us, take a look at what they are doing.... they are too fucking busy grandstanding and pointing fingers over what Limbaugh said on his program a week ago.

WAKE UP AMERICA..... YOU'RE CHILDREN'S FUTURES DEPEND ON WHAT YOU DO NOW!!!!! STAND UP AND TAKE AMERICA BACK!!!!

(Oh yeah, I forgot.... the Mayans said we are all dead Dec. 21, 2012... so what does it matter.... or global warming is going to kill us all off by 2050 so why worry about the future? As long as they can get you to believe that we are doomed, running out of time and that we have to live for today and not worry about future generations.... they know we'll gladly sell off the future for a little security today.... after all it's end times and we don't have future generations to worry about.)

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

MrTia

i love both those youtube clips -- finally henry rollins actually gives voice to how pissed off I'VE been the past few years, and george carlin is masterful and sincere as always. his claiming to be down with the "owned" blue-collar workers is a little hard to believe, though. that dude's gotta be pretty damn wealthy, i'm guessing. so if he's not a dick cheney, he sure ain't like a single mom or a disabled and neglected iraq vet either. yanno?

pan6467

I wouldn't be too hard on George. He says any collar color and as for him being rich, so what? He is one of the few that truly speak out and doesn't do it for publicity or for accolades from other left leaning stars, he does it because that is who he has always been.

The George W quotes at the end are very disturbing and shows the power hunger. It amazes me that the majority sit quietly and do nothing, say nothing. That the press, other politicians from both parties and we, the people, ignore, dismiss or even defend these Bush comments. Where does it end? When do the masses, the press and the politicians who "so love our country" say enough?


As for Henry Rollins, I love the man's passion and what he says.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"