Just watched the vid again. Those don't look like cops, they look like campus security, which means while they were acting on behalf of the campus, they also committed assault.

I don't know how it is in Florida, but here the University security are police officers, though they may not always carry a gun. This was a private event (you had to have tickets to get int) and the "authorized security" asked him to leave. He refused. Try doing that in a night club sometime when a bouncer asks you to leave and see what happens to you.

The cops did not assault him, in my opinion they were lawfully removing someone from a private event who was illegally trespassing. Hell if we lived in the land that DK envisions these guys could have shot to kill legally.

sorry will, that's a bunch of horseshit. REPEATEDLY? Did we watch the same video? I see ONCE. From the footage of the two videos I have seen of this that have been posted in this thread.

Assault? Again a far stretch I believe. If that is the case then they would not ever have been given an instrument like a taser. This isn't your rent-a-cop mall security where I'd agree, since they are still considered non police.

I know you don't intend to be rude, but how can you write "sorry will, that's a bunch of horseshit." and expect to think that's just discussion?

I see twice. Once, then another right after.
He didn't present a physical risk. He was a nuisance. They tased him.

Because it is part of the discussion calling you on the bullshit being espoused. (better if it's not horseshit?)

at :25-:24 of the OP video is the burst of the taser sound being utilized. It sounds like a ratchet. It doesn't happen a second time. The same sound is heard in the UK Your interpretation is that it is UK Greater Manchester Police Chief being tasered corroborates the sound.

Again, I don't see repeated and ask you to please verify your claim.

It seems like we're trying to stage battles on ground just because we don't want to concede anything to people who disagree with us.

I did an extremely small amount of fact checking. The people in the video are in fact from the University of Florida POLICE Department. The UFPD employs 89 sworn and certified law enforcement officers. That means they are authorized to carry lethal arms (but may or may not depending on department policy), can arrest people, have investigatory authorities, and depending on the state, may even serve warrents.

So, these guys are the real deal. They are authorized to use force, arrest, and detain you depending on the circumstance. They are also agents of the school, and as such can ask you to leave the premises. I can tell you that in my role working for a public school in NYC, I utilized the Public Safety officers on several occassions to remove students from the premisis. That's not an everyday occurence, but it's also in no way a remarkable one.

You can argue about whether these were appropriate decisions under the circumstance, but let's acknowledge the verifiable facts of the situation.

University of Florida Police Department

Thank you ubertuber.

willravel: I'm generally on your side here - I think the taser was excessive - but you're not helping the argument by claiming he was tased "repeatedly (you are the only person, across discussions on 4 sites that I've had, and any report that I've read, that has made that claim).I think it went over the line the minute the officers grabbed him by the arm and started trying to drag him out of there. Not because they didn't have the right to, but because it wasn't clearly necessary. Police officers need to be careful not to be the cause of escalation, and here they were not (careful; they were the cause). If you watch the video, you'll notice he gets upset over having his mic cut (though not, in any way, upset enough to be considered a threat to anyone). He steps away, expresses his anger for a bit, and he looks like he's about to settle down and just let Kerry answer the questions he asked. He doesn't get a chance to settle down, though, because the officers almost immediately step in at that point. They didn't bother waiting to see if cutting the guy's mic would deal with the situation well enough, and that is something they should have done.

never mind---thinking about this makes me realize my memory is not always as sharp as i think it is.

I don't know about some of the other angles, but the initial footage is from a camera that Andrew Meyer (the student) gave to another student at the forum (who he didn't know) to film him asking the question. The police are not behind this footage getting out. That said, I don't think him wanting his question taped is any indication whatsoever that he planned for this to happen, and I don't particularly trust some of the assertions made in the police report.

EDIT: and then roachboy had to edit his post :p Well, I'll leave this here anyway, in case the info is relevant for anyone else ;)

You know who shoulda' been tased? That lady screaming "Why? Why are you doing this?!?!?!" Seriously, though, this guy (Just like that dumb ass at UCLA) got what was coming to him. It's apparent that his whole intent was to stir up some kind of controversy and he got just what he wanted.

Urban Meyer. Quickly followed by Tim Tebow. And possibly followed by the entire Gator offense. And maybe by my brother-in-law, but that's a separate discussion....







In all seriousness, I find myself completely agreeing with SMeth. The officers escalated this incident to an unacceptable level. The "why" lady simply commented on that.

There are perfectly good examples of DTP and DC that are quite legitimate as far as charges go. What gets my riled is when I encounter an officer who knows they jacked up and have nothing else so they get all full of attitude and start talking DTP and DC because thats all they have left, even if its not legit.

So if that tool is available for non-lethal use of force, what is an appropriate usage? what are the parameters you are comfortable with?

I'm comfortable with the UCLA situation, and for the most part from what I've seen and read, this situation. If new information unfolds and comes forward, I may change my mind, but as it stands, I find the officers behavior an acceptable and reasonable amount of force.

what you're suggesting is that the taser should be used for non-compliance, not to subdue those that resist arrest. Personally, thats dangerous ground and is asking for deadly escalations in the future.

uh, I don't think so. If you truly think that I believe the world should be that way, then you haven't been paying close enough attention to my posts.

It basically runs down like this in my view.

Student: Moronic attention seeker hoping to god he'd become internet-famous by heckling John Kerry.

Rent-a-cops: Caught up in trying to justify their authority by tasing someone who didn't warrant it just because he had the balls to not do exactly what they said. How dare he not subjugate himself immediately to their authority.

Us: Engaging in a lot of hyperbole and conjecture with seemingly very little fact-checking.

We're all doomed.

cyn: as jazz more or less said: i'm comfortable with the use of a taser in a situation where the officer reasonably feels that the person in question represents a credible danger to himself or others.

i am not comfortable with it to remove a nuissance or non-compliant person.

i also think that its a little interesting that this occurred on a college campus. if there is one place you'd think that an unruly, politically motived youth would be expected...it's on a college campus. that magical place where you go to believe in fairness and unlimited potential and puffy clouds and rainbows...before your ass gets slammed to the turf the day you start a real job.

not just directed at you pig, but to those who don't think it can or should be used as a tool for compliance like a pr-24/baton.

for the safety of the officer? or just because well, he wasn't complying and shouldn't be subject to potentially dropping the quran. I'm sure it could have easily been resolved as him stating that he was slowly pulling out his right hand WITH the quran in it since he didn't want to drop it. Of course maybe he was too scared shitless to think about anything else.

Again, I state that officers should be allowed and expected to utilize tools that fit the situations appropriately and since this new ubiquitous technology is finally distributed far and wide, we'll continue to see how it is being shaped and formed as it's usage becomes better defined.

For this situation I posted above, I don't see any misuse as it is written. I haven't been able to find any more but the AP regurgitated on other sites.

don't sweat it cyn: i can take the heat. you take enough shit around here and weather the storm well enough - a little combative discourse will not make this little pig go 'wee wee wee' all the way home.

in reference to the above situation - for me it would depend. if they had intel that an armed suspect matching this guy's appearance was in the area, and he refused to remove his hand from his jacket...i can see that use of the taser, i think. much better than a shoot first, ask question later involving a handgun.

i don't think anyone thought the fool in the first link with the op was about to start anything violent. so that's a stretch to me.

i also wonder what this will do for the reputation of the police themselves. for instance, i live down in good ole south carolina. i can see bad things happening around here if the wrong person was shocked for 'noncompliance' we have a state strongly known for 'state's rights' and 'owning a shitload of guns'. i can see campus cops getting the shit kicked out of them, quite frankly. what if that crowd at the UF thing HAD taken a case of the ass over this...which i think could have easily happened. what if this kid had a bunch of friends in the crowd?

me please :)
I need a new youtube video!

some follow up, apparently again as I stated he didn't follow any rules, he squashed other people's first amendment rights by not abiding by the ACCENT rules put in place.

I whole-heartedly agree.

Seriously- people have gotten to the point of impatience that taking more than 3 additional seconds to do anything results in all kinds of whining.

Last week, I was ordering a chicken salad somewhere and I was informed at the register that the dressing I wanted wasn't in stock. So I paused a moment to think of my second choice, and I guarantee 10 seconds hadn't gone by when the lady behind me huffed loudly at me. It doesn't even matter if she knew what was going on or not- the issue was that I'd spent less than 10 seconds pausing to think.

Will, if you ever try this, please figure out a way to ground the mesh before it goes from causing pain to causing death.

Chainmail is the new black.

Follow up

I was arrested for basically being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The cops cuffed me and carried me to the car. Did I resist? Nope. Did I mouth off. Nope. I knew they weren't going to listen to me. So I called who I had to call and got it taken care of. I was polite and explained myself in a calmn, polite manner. The cops let me out of the cell and I hung out in an office and listened to Led Zepplin while it was cleared up. I was a shaved head, leather jacket wearing 300 lb guy at the time. Had I fought, I would have been hurt. Not acting like a jackass is a good thing.

GREG PALAST FOR THE WIN!!!!

Armed Madhouse is a good read.
This kid must of been pissed off that Kerry did shit to stop Bush, and tried to show off that Kerry is a pussy
and let Bush cheat. Of course when they told him to leave, he's like "Why? What did I do wrong?" and he panicked a bit because he thought he was getting arrested and tried to resist. Of course the rent-a-guard
was like "Fuck this little dumbass", and tasered him. It's not really the rent-a-cops fault though. What would you do if you had to be at some boring conference with some guy named John Kerry and you got paid $15 bucks for the whole thing. Then some kid starts getting emo, and you're like, "Fuck this, lets get his kid". BZZZZT!

no, I think it would work well for tasers too. I'm sure they work by creating a large electric potential between the prongs and having current flow through you in a localized region.

the metal mesh should effectively short the circuit, allowing no current to pass through you.

Thick clothing would also stop a taser.

Everyone focus on the cops like they started it. His mic got turned off, which means someone signaled the cops to remove this kid. They didn't decide that on their own. They were asked to do what they were higher to do, and enforce the rules of the forum. They, doing what they are paid to do, asked he kid to leave, he refused, so they started to escort him out. He resisted, fought back, so they subdued him. He was told VERY clearly what was about to happen if he didn't stop fighting, he kept fighting, so they followed through with their warning and tazerd him. there is no 1st amendment argument here. This was a privet event. Like all privet events, there are rules to be followed, and he broke them. I am a HUGE fan of the first amendment, but it simple doesn't apply in this case. The blame here all falls squarely on the kids shoulders.