Mr. Mojo

<a target=new href=""><b>Presidential Catfight: Hillary vs. Condi in 2008? - LINK</b> </a>

NEW YORK — No woman has ever received a major party nomination for the presidency, but some have speculated that in 2008, not one, but two women could be competing for the White House.

In recent interviews, New York Democratic Sen. Hillary Clinton (search) said she had “no intention” of running for president in 2008 -- but did not rule it out, leading many to believe a race is possible. And if the former first lady were to run, some say National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice (search) would be the perfect Republican to run against her.

“I’ve been speculating on that [match-up] for a year and half,” said GOP strategist Cheri Jacobus. “The greatest strength Hillary has is she’s a woman in what many consider a man’s world. If the GOP candidate were [a] woman as well, she’d have to run on merit, not on ‘I’m a woman hear me roar,’” Jacobus said.

Both women have plenty of merits. Born in Chicago on Oct. 26, 1947, Clinton grew up in Park Ridge, Ill., and is a 1973 graduate of Yale Law School. She worked as an attorney while her husband was governor of Arkansas and performed the duties of the nation's first lady for eight years. On Nov. 7, 2000, Clinton became the first first lady to be elected to the U.S. Senate. She is also an established author and advocate of women’s rights and public works projects for her state of New York.

Born Nov. 14, 1954, in segregation-era Birmingham, Ala., Rice got her Ph.D. from the University of Denver's Graduate School of International Studies in 1981. A former political science professor and provost of Stanford University, she was President George H.W. Bush’s adviser on Soviet affairs before becoming the current President Bush’s national security adviser.

On the issues, Hillary is regarded by many as a liberal who tried and failed to nationalize health care.

“The worst thing the Democrats can do is to nominate Hillary. She’s so far to the left that the center would be turned off,” said Republican strategist Paul Pelletier.

While Rice is hawkish on foreign policy, her stance on other issues doesn't necessarily fall into line. She told the San Francisco Chronicle in 1999 that she is a "pro-choice evangelical.” Later that year in an interview with National Review, she described herself as "mildly pro-choice."

This latter position would lead "single-issue" abortion voters to lean toward Clinton, speculated Democratic strategist Scott Segal.

“Single-issue voters are not interested in someone who mildly holds a position, who would put limitations on it,” Segal said.

Jacobus added that Rice’s pro-choice position could help her against Clinton, but could hurt her in the GOP primary.

Democratic strategist and former Gore-Lieberman presidential campaign spokesman Doug Hattaway said Rice's gender would be a big bonus for the Republicans in a race against Clinton, but he doesn’t think a contest between the two women would focus on topics like abortion and family leave.

“I don’t think a campaign between two women would turn much on women’s issues. It would turn on who has a better vision for the country, on who would better lead the world’s only superpower.”

Pelletier, a former adviser to the first President Bush, agreed, saying women’s issues are among those that have been pushed to the back burner since Sept. 11.

“The war on terror and Iraq are front and center due to 9/11. Rice is a woman who successfully prosecuted this war, controlling the outcome of what our soldiers were doing in the field. That’s no small feat for a woman even in today’s society,” he said.

Rice, however, has never held elected office, and has never revealed an inclination to do so, said Segal.

“She’s primarily a creature of an academic office. There’s no proof she has the toughness or inclination to run. We don’t know anything about her position on most issues,” he said. “Hillary was first lady, has been active in campaigns. She had to fight the charge of carpetbaggerism, and defeated an ethnic New Yorker with long roots in his community,” he said.

But Pelletier feels Rice’s background is more impressive than Clinton’s.

“She pulled herself up by her boot straps, making herself somebody of incredibly high education. Hillary has ridden on the tails of her husband. There’s no way she’d be in the Senate without him,” he said.

As for the race card, experts speculate that a black Republican candidate like Rice could throw a wrench in the Democrats’ African-American support base.

“It would be a slight factor. Blacks do like the Democrats more — it’s a failing of the Republican Party,” Pelletier said.

However, Pelletier said the Democrats could easily shoot themselves in the foot on the issue.

“They would try to make Rice seem like an 'Uncle Tom' or not a real black, like they have with [Secretary of State] Colin Powell. This could be perceived as racism,” he said.

Hattaway said the fact that Rice is black would force African-American voters to take a closer look than usual at the GOP candidate.

“It’s a big bonus for the Republicans. That said, African-American voters are not going to be won over that easily. They didn’t rally around Clarence Thomas (search) just because he’s black,” he said.

But in Jacobus' mind, there would be "no contest" between the two women.

"I think Condi would beat Hillary handily," she said.


My money is on Condi, she kicks ass in debates

__________________
When I jerk off I feel good for about twenty seconds and then WHAM it's right back into suicidal depression

Liquor Dealer

I would like to see this- Rice would beat her so badly that she'd have to move back to Arkansas - The liberals in NY would even finally admit they are ashamed of her and what they did in allowing a non-resident to come into their state and steal an election.

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

Prophecy

Condoleezza Rice kicks ass in debates perhaps, but not in recent interviews. The one's I've seen lately show her to be flustered and not well prepared. She seemed like she wasn't a good public speaker. And based on what I've seen of her so far and what I've seen of Ms. Clinton, all in all, I'd vote for Hillary if it came down to just the two of them.

As for that part of the article I think that's bullshit. Minority Americans are not going to be swayed by the colour of someone's skin, yes it might make some think twice and look a little longer at Rice as a contender, but you aren't going to get votes for skin colour alone.

Lastly, I hope neither of them win or run for that matter.

__________________
La Disciplina È La Mia Spada,
La Fede È Il Mio Schermo,
Non salti Ciecamente In Incertezza,
E Potete Raccogliere Le Ricompense.

The_Dude

i dont think the repub's would nominate a women anytime soon.

not in the near future

__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

geep

I would think the Dems should think twice about nominating Hillary, too.

Scipio

Doesn't matter, because the Democrats will have an incumbent president to run in 2008.

__________________
"Erections lasting more than 4 hours, though rare, require immediate medical attention."

Sparhawk

I'd like to see them nominate hillary just to send thousands of knee-jerk republicans into spasms and frothing at the mouth at the thought of her becoming president.

Unfortunately, I don't turn 35 until 2016, so I can't recommend any other suitable candidates to run against her

__________________
"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

Liquor Dealer

Would you perhaps be interested in some ocean front property I have for sale in Oklahoma?

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

Mr. Mojo

The next election is going to have a high voter turn out no matter what.
If Hillary runs, it will be even higher – she'll cause so much <I>negative voter turnout</I>. More people don’t like her than do. So they'll vote against her – no matter who the republican candidate is just to make sure she doesn't get elected. She got 55% of the vote in New York, and this is a super liberal state, how do you think she would do in middle America – which doesn’t like her.

__________________
When I jerk off I feel good for about twenty seconds and then WHAM it's right back into suicidal depression

smooth

Probably better Mr. Mojo--it's not as though the Clintons represent(ed) the liberal base.

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

The_Dude

new york does carry a lot of electoral weight.

add california to that, and a some more state and u get the 1st woman prez.

__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

Sensei

Especially a Black woman. Come on now,
Greatly
Old-Fashioned
Partly

Macheath

There's no doubting that Ms Rice is smart - but at the moment she seems to be more "Ivy League boffin" smart rather than "electoral politics" smart.

She's seen as part of Team Bush but that doesn't necessarily translate to popularity in her own right, and Team Bush may have its own baggage. Still it's hard to tell five years beforehand how her image will change.

As for Ms Clinton, Americans seem to have "issues" with the Clintons that us foreigners don't really understand, so I don't know what to suggest.

smooth

It seems U.S. voters have a general distrust of intellectuals in public office and being "'Ivy League boffin" smart' is not usually an asset.

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

MacGnG

it'll be interesting to see, but lets just wait till it comes to voting for them

Prophecy

maybe but not in 2008

__________________
La Disciplina È La Mia Spada,
La Fede È Il Mio Schermo,
Non salti Ciecamente In Incertezza,
E Potete Raccogliere Le Ricompense.

The_Dude

exactly, i can bet my life on that that they wont nominate a black woman in 08

__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

Liquor Dealer

Uh Huh!

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

Prophecy

Forget black, the GOP won't let a woman win the republican primary period.

__________________
La Disciplina È La Mia Spada,
La Fede È Il Mio Schermo,
Non salti Ciecamente In Incertezza,
E Potete Raccogliere Le Ricompense.

geep

Broad and sweeping generalizations about particular segments of the population are the foundations of bigotry, not the cure.

Sparhawk

It's a fact that the inroads the Republican party made in the South in the 20th century is attributable to racial prejudice/hatred/fear. I initially thought W. was going to make significant attempts to curtail this during his term, and maybe turn the GOP into a more moderate force, but obviously he isn't interested/can't/won't.

__________________
"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

geep

Not to include the "Dixie-crats" for sure (They were Democrats after all). But I do believe that the GOP is ready for minority leadership. Check this out- in the state I live in a certain minority GOP leader is being criticized and called a racist by Dems for bringing minorities INTO the GOP?

Sparhawk

So when the dixiecrats fell apart, did they go back to the democrats? Nuh-uh.

The republicans shouldn't have let them take over the party, IMO.

__________________
"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

geep

They didn't all become Republicans. This is evident from the 1964 Civil Rights Act-

“Of the 420 (House) members who voted (on H.R 7152), 290 supported the civil rights bill and 130 opposed it. Republicans favored the bill 138 to 34; Democrats supported it 152-96. It is interesting to note that Democrats from northern states voted overwhelmingly for the bill, 141 to 4, while Democrats from southern states voted overwhelmingly against the bill, 92 to 11.”

I added the italics. The quote comes from this link

http://www.congresslink.org/civil/essay.html

Mr. Mojo

One of those Democrats was Strom Thurmond who set a record for a Filibuster. After that he switched sides to the Republicans.

Strom Thurmond in your party minus 100 points (his age)

Having Robert Byrd, a former KKK member being 4th in line for President minus a million points

Honesty, 65% of West Virginia needs to be smacked out of their 1860 lifestyle.

__________________
When I jerk off I feel good for about twenty seconds and then WHAM it's right back into suicidal depression

geep

One of the Democrats voting against it was Al Gore Sr. (and Al Gore said his father was a strong champion of Civil Rights- SURE)

"Al Gore, Sr. did not stop at simply voting against the Civil Rights Act of 1964. In addition, Congressional Quarterly reported that Gore attempted to send the Act to the Senate Judiciary Committee with an amendment to say "in defiance of a court desegregation order, federal funds could not be held from any school districts." Gore sought to take the teeth out of the Act in the event it passed." http://www.youdebate.com/DEBATES/al_...vil_rights.HTM

Oddly enough, 80% of the Republicans in the House and 82% of them in the Senate voted for the Civil Rights Act. The Democrats were only 61% for in the House and 69% in the Senate

The_Dude

that was back in the day.

if u say that, you can also say that dem's were for slavery, back to the lincoln years.

party ideology has changed very much since then.

if all that many dem's voted against civil rights, then why do 85% of blacks vote democrat?? cuz ideology has changed

__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

Mr. Mojo

Its pretty hard to campaign against lies like these:

"For example, the NAACP produced a political ad that portrayed the Jasper, Texas, lynching of James Byrd Jr. The ad's voice-over featured the voice of Byrd's daughter, saying: "My father was killed. He was beaten, chained, and dragged three miles to his death, all because he was black. So when Gov. George W. Bush refused to support hate-crimes legislation, it was like my father was killed all over again."

The ad all but accused George W. Bush of being a party to the lynching. It made no mention that two of Byrd's murderers have been sentenced to death and the third to life imprisonment.

Al Gore did his part in this racial rope-a-dope, telling a black audience, "When my opponent, Gov. Bush, says he'll appoint strict constructionists to the Supreme Court, I often think of the strictly constructionist meaning that was applied when the Constitution was written -- how some people were considered three-fifths of a human being." Gore knows that strict constructionism has nothing to do with counting slaves as three-fifths of a vote; he was simply exploiting the audience's ignorance and emotion.

Gore didn't stop there. Pro-Gore leaflets distributed in New Jersey showed Bush's face superimposed on a Confederate flag. Early signs that the race card would be part and parcel of the Gore campaign came when his manager, Donna Brazile, explained to The Washington Post that she would never let the "white boys win."

In Florida's Duval County, many black voters voted for two presidential candidates after being instructed by Democratic election workers to punch every page. This led to the invalidation of some 27,000 votes in black precincts in Duval County alone. According to a story by Village Voice, a 1993 study puts the black adult functional illiteracy rate in Duval County at 47 percent. "

<a target=new href="http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams122000.asp">Racial rope-a-dope - LINK</a>

__________________
When I jerk off I feel good for about twenty seconds and then WHAM it's right back into suicidal depression

The_Dude

yes, gore expolited the situation.


remember when bush gave a campaign speech in a university that prohibited inter-racial dating??


there is no good guy politician, but i personally think gore was less worse.

__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

Tophat665

Oh sure. There's only one President Clinton I would want to see in the whitehouse, and it would take an ammendment to the constitution to gen him there. Running Condi Rice against Hillary, though, is a damn good prescription for a second Clinton presidency, though.

However, I am so over voting for the candidate that smells more like yesterday's dead fish and less like this morning's beer shits since 2000. Unfortunately, the Whitehouse don't flush. :=(

__________________
Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

Sparhawk

Thurmond and Byrd both renounced their racist pasts a long time ago, so please stop regurgitating that simplistic conservative radio talking point.

__________________
"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

rth9821

The RNC would put up a black woman in a heartbeat if her policies appeased the base and she had the financial backing. The trick, of course, is that she would have to be pro-life and anti-affirmative action among other things.

Condi’s not conservative enough for the Reps but she would make a good Veep for a left-of-center Democrat.

seretogis

Agreed.

Just because Republicans think enough of "minorities" to not spoon-feed them like the Democrats do, doesn't mean that they are racist or sexist. Making suggestions to the contrary will only result in you sticking your foot in your mouth after you look at the history of the Democratic party in comparison. In Minnesota, Republicans are the major backers of "workfare"-type programs as opposed to Democrats who simply hand out checks. Which of these do you think is more respectful to out of work minorities?

What Republican in their right mind isn't anti-affirmative action these days? As for abortion, there is room for flexibility on this issue I think. "Partial birth" abortions are vastly different than abortions in the first trimester, and there are many repubs who are able to make such a distinction.

P.S. Hillary can't run in 2008 -- she's already served two terms as President.

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seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

geep

A slick marketing campaign doesn't change the product.

Truer words were never said!

Edit: The above quote was originally posted by seretogis, not The_Dude.

seretogis

omgoodness geep, that was me, not The_Dude!

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seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

geep

Sorry! Type fast- think little.

Prophecy

what were you getting at with that reply?

__________________
La Disciplina È La Mia Spada,
La Fede È Il Mio Schermo,
Non salti Ciecamente In Incertezza,
E Potete Raccogliere Le Ricompense.

seretogis

Heh, I thought it was pretty obvious.

__________________
seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

Prophecy

I know what I thought he meant but I was wondering if I took it out of context

__________________
La Disciplina È La Mia Spada,
La Fede È Il Mio Schermo,
Non salti Ciecamente In Incertezza,
E Potete Raccogliere Le Ricompense.

The_Dude

if hillary runs, i'll campaign for her.

__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal