What is Happening in America, by Eliot Weinberger - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

phredgreen · 06-18-2003, 02:21 AM

Quote:

<i>as seen here:http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle3807.htm</i>
<b>What Is Happening in America?
By Eliot Weinberger

This article, one of the best short analyses of the Bush administration's policies, was published by "Vorwarts," Germany.

First Published 08 June 2003</b>

In the Western democracies in the last fifty years, we have grown accustomed to governments whose policies on specific issues may be good or bad, but which essentially institute incremental changes to the status quo. The major exceptions have been Thatcher and Reagan, but even their programs of dismantling systems of social welfare seem, in retrospect, mild compared to what is happening in the United States under George Bush-- or more exactly, the ruling junta that tells Bush what to do and say.

It is unquestionably the most radical government in modern American history, one whose ideology and actions have become so pervasive, and are so unquestionably mirrored by the mass media here, that the population seems to have forgotten what "normal" is.

George Bush is the first unelected President of the United States, installed by a right-wing Supreme Court in a kind of judicial coup d'etat. He is the first to actively subvert one of the pillars of American democracy: the separation of church and state. There are now daily prayer meetings and Bible study groups in every branch of the government, and religious organizations are being given funds to take over educational and welfare programs that have always been the domain of the state.

Bush is the first president to invoke the specific "Jesus Christ" rather than an ecumenical "God," and he has surrounded himself with evangelical Christians, including his Attorney General, who attends a church where he talks in tongues.

It is the first administration to openly declare a policy of unilateral aggression, a "Pax Americana" where the presence of allies (whether England or Bulgaria) is agreeable but unimportant; where international treaties no longer apply to the United States; and where-- for the first time in history-- this country reserves the right to non-defensive, "pre-emptive" strikes against any nation on earth, for whatever reason it declares.

It is the first-- since the internment of Japanese-Americans in World War II-- to enact special laws for a specific ethnic group. Non-citizen young Muslim men are now required to register and subject themselves to interrogation. Many hundreds have been arrested and held without trial or access to legal assistance-- a violation of another pillar of American democracy: habeas corpus. Many have been taken from their families and deported on minor technical immigration violations; the whereabouts of many others are still unknown. And, in Guantanamo Bay, where it is said that they are now preparing execution chambers, hundreds of foreign nationals -- including a 13-year-old and a man who claims to be 100-- have been kept for almost two years in a limbo that clearly contravenes the Geneva Convention.

Similar to the Reagan era, it is an administration openly devoted to helping the rich and ignoring the poor, one that has turned the surplus of the Clinton years into a massive deficit through its combination of enormous tax cuts for the wealthy (particularly those who earn more than a million dollars a year) and increases in defense spending. (And, although Republicans always campaign on "less government," it has created the largest new government bureaucracy in history: the Department of Homeland Security.) The Financial Times of England, hardly a hotbed of leftists, has categorized this economic policy as "the lunatics taking over the asylum."

But more than Reagan-- whose policies tended to benefit the rich in general-- most of Bush's legislation specifically enriches those in his lifelong inner circle from the oil, mining, logging, construction, and pharmaceutical industries. At the middle level of the bureaucracy, where laws may be issued without Congressional approval, hundreds of regulations have been changed to lower standards of pollution or safety in the workplace, to open up wilderness areas for exploitation, or to eliminate the testing of drugs.

Billions in government contracts have been awarded, without competition, to corporations formerly run by administration officials. In a country where the most significant social changes are enacted by court rulings, rather than by legislation, the Bush administration has been filling every level of the complex judicial system with ultra-right ideologues, especially those who have protected corporations from lawsuits by individuals or environmental groups, and those who are opposed to women's reproductive rights. It remains to be seen how far they can push their antipathy to contraception and abortion. They have already banned a rare form of late-term abortion that is only given when the health of the mother is endangered or the fetus is terribly deformed, and a large portion of Bush's heralded billions to Africa to fight AIDS will be devoted to so-called "abstinence" education.

Most of all, America doesn't feel like America any more. The climate of militarism and fear, similar to any totalitarian state, permeates everything. Bush is the first American president in memory to swagger around in a military uniform, though he himself-- like all of his most militant advisers-- evaded the Vietnam War. (Even Eisenhower, a general and a war hero, never wore his uniform while he was president).

In the airports of provincial cities, there are frequent announcements in that assuring, disembodied voice of science-fiction films: "The Department of Homeland Security advises that the Terror Alert is now . . . Code Orange." Every few weeks there is an announcement that another terrorist attack is imminent, and citizens are urged to take ludicrous measures, like sealing their windows, against biological and chemical attacks, and to report the suspicious activities of their neighbors.

The Pentagon institutes the "Total Information Awareness" program to collect data on the ordinary activities of ordinary citizens (credit card charges, library book withdrawals, university course enrollments) and when this is perceived as going too far, they change the name to "Terrorist Information Awareness" and continue to do the same things. Millions are listed in airport security computers as potential terrorists, including antiwar demonstrators and pacifists. Critics are warned to "watch what they say" and lists of "traitors" are posted on the internet.

The war in Iraq has been the most extreme manifestation of this new America, and almost a casebook study in totalitarian techniques.

First, an Enemy is created by blatant lies that are endlessly repeated until the population believes it: in this case, that Iraq was linked to the attack on the World Trade Center, and that it possesses vast "weapons of mass destruction" that threaten the world.

Then, a War of Liberation, entirely portrayed by the mass media in terms of our Heroic Troops, with little or no imagery of casualties and devastation, and with morale-inspiring, scripted "news" scenes-- such as the toppling of the Saddam statue and the heroic "rescue" of Private Lynch-- worthy of Soviet cinema.

Finally, as has happened with Afghanistan, very little news of the chaos that has followed the Great Victory. Instead, the propaganda machine moves on to a new Enemy-- this time, Iran.

It is very difficult to speak of what is happening in America without resorting to the hyperbolic cliches of anti-Americanism that have lost their meaning after so many decades, but that have now finally come true.

Perhaps one can only recite the facts, and I have mentioned only some of them here. This is, quite simply, the most frightening American administration in modern times, one that is appalling both to the left and to traditional conservatives. This junta is unabashed in its imperialist ambitions; it is enacting an Orwellian state of Perpetual War; it is dismantling, or attempting to dismantle, some of the most fundamental tenets of American democracy; it is acting without opposition within the government, and is operating so quickly on so many fronts that it has overwhelmed and exhausted any popular opposition.

Perhaps it cannot be stopped, but the first step toward slowing it down is the recognition that this is an American government unlike any other in this country's history, and one for whom democracy is an obstacle

i love an outsider's point of view... so much fresher than looking around from the inside.

Pacifier · 06-18-2003, 02:35 AM

exellent articel, and for democracy beeing an obstacle:

"If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier,
just so long as I'm the dictator."
(<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/12/18/bush.wrap/index.html">George Bush</a>)

Sparhawk · 06-18-2003, 05:38 AM

Sigh....

November 2004 seems so far away after reading stuff like this.

Daval · 06-18-2003, 05:47 AM

Great Article. Puts a lot of things into perspective.

Prophecy · 06-18-2003, 06:02 AM

*waits for Liquor Dealer*

And Sparhawk, Bush has already gathered more funds for his re-election campaign then all the Democratic canidates put together. He gathered 3 mill last night I believe at his 2K a pieace dinner. Like him or not, Bush seems to have an awful lot of support.

Liquor Dealer · 06-18-2003, 06:10 AM

"It is very difficult to speak of what is happening in America without resorting to the hyperbolic cliches of anti-Americanism that have lost their meaning after so many decades, but that have now finally come true."

Does this simply say he is just repeating all the "cliches of anti-Americanism that have lost their meaning after sp many decades"? Same old song - different verse.

There are a lot of things about the Bush administration I don't care for - mainly the relationship with Ashcroft which I assume will go away before 2004. This article seems to be a really good example of reductio ad absurdum. Continued blasts at the wearing of the flight suit are a perfect example - He wasn't wearing a military uniform - he was wearing a flight suit - a flight suit! The exact same type of flight suit anyone must wear when flying in an unpresurized jet aircraft. Check out a reporter after they have been luck enough to get a ride with the Thunderbirds or Blue Angels. Same flight suit.

PS If I didn't type so slow you wouldn't have had to wait.

geep · 06-18-2003, 06:12 AM

So, what we're to conclude from this article is that european media sources have a leftist agenda, too? Why does that not surprise me.

lurkette · 06-18-2003, 06:23 AM

Can I get an "AMEN!"?!?

What makes me maddest is that Bush isn't even TRYING to cover up what he's doing - tax cuts for the rich, establishment of American global hegemony, institution of evangelical Christian policy - and NOBODY SEEMS TO CARE!?!

The man is too stupid to be evil, but has surrounded himself with some of the most frightening ideologues on the face of the earth. And people are too busy working to pay off their SUVs to notice.

The_Dude · 06-18-2003, 07:28 AM

most of the things in there are true.

Liquor Dealer · 06-18-2003, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Dude
most of the things in there are true.

That is really deep.

Prophecy · 06-18-2003, 07:49 AM

Yep, it is true, but its just a matter of spin. If I felt like it(which I don't) I could take the same facts stated above and write an article totally opposite of this one. News as a whole in the U.S. and abroad when dealing with U.S. dealings seems so one sided

now a days

geep · 06-18-2003, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lurkette
The man is too stupid to be evil, but has surrounded himself with some of the most frightening ideologues on the face of the earth. And people are too busy working to pay off their SUVs to notice.

This is what we are to expect after congressional rule by the Democratic Party for the last 40 years. Their Socialist lackeys in Europe are flabbergasted that the American people have had enough of the Democrat's destruction of the American Dream. It took a great man, a Republican named Ronald Reagan, to bring world communism to it's knees, but communism didn't die. It just moved to America and joined the Democratic Party. Now another great Republican, George W. Bush has brought it to it's knees again, and has tried to restore the ideals that made America great to begin with. We don't elect a President to make the Europeans happy, just as they obviously don't elect their government to make us happy. The Europeans didn't like Reagan, but sure cashed in on his accomplishments. They like Bush even less because they can't cash in on his leadership. They don't understand so they criticize. This is the same liberal tactic that Americans have rebelled against in their ousting of the Democrats from power. I don't always agree with Mr. Bush but I do respect him. He doesn't hide his agenda, like so many Democrats before him, so even if I do disagree at least I know what to expect. By the way, my SUV is paid for.

Charlatan · 06-18-2003, 08:00 AM

Spin from the left? Imagine that? I'd almost forgotten they can do it too...

Clearly the article is meant to be inflamatory and while much of it is true it must be taken with a grain of salt.

True that it was a flight suit and not a uniform per se BUT it was clearly a photo op if I've ever seen one. His handlers made damn sure that he was seen and photographed wearing that flight suit. It sent out a very specific message.

As for his taxation and religious mandates. Dead on.

Prophecy · 06-18-2003, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by geep
It took a great man, a Republican named Ronald Reagan, to bring world communism to it's knees, but communism didn't die. It just moved to America and joined the Democratic Party. Now another great Republican, George W. Bush has brought it to it's knees again, and has tried to restore the ideals that made America great to begin with.

Eh, I wouldn't go as far as to call W. great. We haven't had a "great" president in a long time... However I do respect him, that much is due him by his status alone.

Quote:

Originally posted by geep
We don't elect a President to make the Europeans happy, just as they obviously don't elect their government to make us happy.

A more authentic statement could not have been made.

Sparhawk · 06-18-2003, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by geep
This is what we are to expect after congressional rule by the Democratic Party for the last 40 years. Their Socialist lackeys in Europe are flabbergasted that the American people have had enough of the Democrat's destruction of the American Dream.

As great as the '50s were, very few people want to go back and relive them. I'm sorry you do.

Liquor Dealer · 06-18-2003, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prophecy
Eh, I wouldn't go as far as to call W. great. We haven't had a "great" president in a long time... However I do respect him, that much is due him by his status alone. .......

The last president we had that probably might be considered great was a Democrat from Missouri.

Prophecy · 06-18-2003, 09:44 AM

I don't remember where President's were born very well, but I think you mean Truman, right?

Peetster · 06-18-2003, 09:53 AM

Germany is spinning off to obscurity. They macht nichts. The rantings that come from a country that now has zero influence are of no consequence to me.

geep · 06-18-2003, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sparhawk
As great as the '50s were, very few people want to go back and relive them. I'm sorry you do.

The 50's brought us Joseph P. Macarthy. In my mind, reliving the 50's would be like bringing back the Inquisition. I was only lamenting the brutal death of the American Dream at the hands of the Democrats. They have criminalized bold expectations in favor of spreading poverty evenly amongst the masses.

Quote:

Originally posted by Prophecy
Eh, I wouldn't go as far as to call W. great. We haven't had a "great" president in a long time... However I do respect him, that much is due him by his status alone.

O.K., so I went a little overboard on the "great". stuff, but it sure made for a better rant, don't you think?

Sparhawk · 06-18-2003, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peetster
Germany is spinning off to obscurity. They macht nichts. The rantings that come from a country that now has zero influence are of no consequence to me.

Way to miss the point of the article.

Scipio · 06-18-2003, 10:37 AM

The last great president was Bill Clinton. I really mean that.

Gee, where to start?

Quote:

This is what we are to expect after congressional rule by the Democratic Party for the last 40 years.

The GOP has controlled the House for almost 10 years.

Quote:

Their Socialist lackeys in Europe are flabbergasted that the American people have had enough of the Democrat's destruction of the American Dream.

What American Dream are you talking about? The one where everyone has equal opportunity, affordable health care, safe streets, a foreign policy that keeps America safe, a government that stays out of our bedrooms, a protected environment, and a budget that doesn't make our grand children pay trillions of dollars in debt?

Quote:

It took a great man, a Republican named Ronald Reagan, to bring world communism to it's knees, but communism didn't die. It just moved to America and joined the Democratic Party.

I thought red-baiting died with the Iron Curtain, but I guess in the days of Michael Savage and John Podhoretz, calling someone a communist still counts as an argument. If you think the Democratic party is a socialist party, then West Germany has been living under communism for 50 years, Canada is Marx's utopia, and Bill Gates just put $80 million in my checking account.

For what it's worth, Reagan was a pretty good president. I'm not going to bash him. He was the last "good" conservative, back when the GOP meant something besides opposing abortion and taxes.

Quote:

Now another great Republican, George W. Bush has brought it to it's knees again, and has tried to restore the ideals that made America great to begin with.

What values? Invading other countries? Pissing off our allies? Care to elaborate?

Quote:

We don't elect a President to make the Europeans happy, just as they obviously don't elect their government to make us happy.

Geez, lay off on the Europeans.

Quote:

The Europeans didn't like Reagan, but sure cashed in on his accomplishments. They like Bush even less because they can't cash in on his leadership.

Saying the Europeans did nothing to end the Cold War is fallacious and ignorant. Saying they just cashed in on Reagan's accomplishments is just plain mean. Germany, France, and the UK have some of the best and most sophisticated militaries in the world. They aren't big offensive juggernauts like the US, but they know how to fight.

Quote:

They don't understand so they criticize. This is the same liberal tactic that Americans have rebelled against in their ousting of the Democrats from power.

Criticism is what opposition parties are for. I suppose the 49% of Americans that vote Democrat don't matter to you?

Quote:

I don't always agree with Mr. Bush but I do respect him. He doesn't hide his agenda, like so many Democrats before him, so even if I do disagree at least I know what to expect.

I don't always disagree with what Bush does, but I almost always take issue with how he goes about it, and I do respect him. However, saying he never hides his agenda is preposterous. He said he was going to put a new government in Afghanistan, and get rid of the Taliban forever, but his real intention was to invade and forget.

Quote:

By the way, my SUV is paid for.

vroom vroom!

geep · 06-18-2003, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scipio
The GOP has controlled the House for almost 10 years.

Since 1955 the Republican Party has not controlled both houses of Congress during the term of a Republican President. Every Democrat elected President since 1955 has had his party control both Houses of Congress for at least half of his term in office. This has given the Democrats the ability to push their agenda over the objections of the opposition. That is what I call control.

Quote:

Originally posted by Scipio
What American Dream are you talking about? The one where everyone has equal opportunity, affordable health care, safe streets, a foreign policy that keeps America safe, a government that stays out of our bedrooms, a protected environment, and a budget that doesn't make our grand children pay trillions of dollars in debt?

The American Dream I'm talking about is what drove our forefathers to settle this country since 1776. It has nothing to do with taking money from me to appease your guilt. It seems odd to me that equal opportunity to succeed, which was many an immigrants dream when they set out for the "land of opportunity", has been supplanted by equal opportunity to fail, an adequate description of our welfare state. Our federal government was set up to give us equal protection under the law, not shelter some from the past. This country no longer fosters the individuals success but seeks merely to cash in on it.

Quote:

Originally posted by Scipio
I thought red-baiting died with the Iron Curtain, but I guess in the days of Michael Savage and John Podhoretz, calling someone a communist still counts as an argument. If you think the Democratic party is a socialist party, then West Germany has been living under communism for 50 years, Canada is Marx's utopia, and Bill Gates just put $80 million in my checking account..

Communism would be defined as a socialist state with one political party in control, see above. Red baiting would liken itself more to name-calling, something not beyond the tactics of many of the more prominent Liberals.

Quote:

Originally posted by Scipio
For what it's worth, Reagan was a pretty good president. I'm not going to bash him. He was the last "good" conservative, back when the GOP meant something besides opposing abortion and taxes.

Many conservatives embrace the same philosophies Ronald Reagan did.

Quote:

Originally posted by Scipio
What values? Invading other countries? Pissing off our allies? Care to elaborate?

The value I seem to treasure most is my family. I also don't consider myself bad for worshipping God. George Bush seems to take it in the shorts a lot for these two things.

Quote:

Originally posted by Scipio
Geez, lay off on the Europeans.

If you look back at the origins of this thread I believe it was about the Europeans bashing us.

Quote:

Originally posted by Scipio
Saying the Europeans did nothing to end the Cold War is fallacious and ignorant. Saying they just cashed in on Reagan's accomplishments is just plain mean. Germany, France, and the UK have some of the best and most sophisticated militaries in the world. They aren't big offensive juggernauts like the US, but they know how to fight.

I didn't say the Europeans had nothing to do with the Cold War, but they did benefit from its demise, especially the Germans. I seriously doubt that the outcome would have been the same without a strong U.S. presence in Europe. I agree that their militaries are among the finest in the world, especially the Brits.

Quote:

Originally posted by Scipio
Criticism is what opposition parties are for. I suppose the 49% of Americans that vote Democrat don't matter to you?

Criticism is what makes America great. When criticism isn't respected and treated as a learning experience for both the critic and the criticized it becomes a tragedy.

Quote:

Originally posted by Scipio
I don't always disagree with what Bush does, but I almost always take issue with how he goes about it, and I do respect him. However, saying he never hides his agenda is preposterous. He said he was going to put a new government in Afghanistan, and get rid of the Taliban forever, but his real intention was to invade and forget.

The Taliban was the government in Afghanistan, and now it is gone. If that is what Bush said he was going to do then that's exactly what he did.

Thanks Scipio. Great return fire. There is nothing finer than a "gentlemanly" debate.

Scipio · 06-18-2003, 02:34 PM

Thanks geep, I had you pegged as some kind of dittohead, but you've shown yourself to be better. There are tons of issues to cover in this thread, so I won't laundry list anymore posts, but I do have a few things more to say.

Quote:

The Taliban was the government in Afghanistan, and now it is gone.

Now this is simply not true. I'll link the Asia Times article again.

US turns to the Taliban

"According to people familiar with Afghan resistance movements, the one that has emerged over the past year and a half since the fall of the Taliban is about four times as strong as the movement that opposed Soviet invaders for nearly a decade starting in 1979.

The key reason for this is that the previous Taliban government - which is dispersed almost intact in the country after capitulating to advancing Northern Alliance forces without a fight - is backed by the most powerful force in Afghanistan: clerics and religious students."

We couldn't find anyone there we trusted to run the country, or that could. There's an ongoing debate in the military about exit strategies, or how to end wars. (Naturally, there are always lots of ongoing military debates, but that's beside the point.) The argument goes, our current war games lack the scope necessary for real world operations. We can fight, but the games end too soon to figure out what happens next.

Advocates of change can turn to Operation Iraqi Freedom to make their point. We came and kicked some ass, but now we can't see very many moves ahead. The population isn't necessarily hostile, but they aren't in any hurry to cooperate with US troops. The mechanized infantry divisions on the ground aren't well suited to the task at hand. If the battle, as one commander commented, was not the one they war-gamed, their current mission was probably not ever extensively planned, and certainly not what was expected.

Lateline interview with Dr. Harlan Ullman, military strategist

And an excerpt:

DR HARLAN ULLMAN: "That is the question because I think for the time being the situation is not going to get better, it's going to get worse.

The US does not have a terrific record at peacekeeping.

It's something we don't do particularly well and if you take a look at places like Yugoslavia or Somalia or other places where we have been engaged, until there is political order, until there is control of chaos, until there are jobs, until there's some kind of social stability, things will be very difficult for the US or any occupying power."

Easytiger · 06-18-2003, 02:45 PM

I'd love to read Weinberger's take on what's going on here in Australia. It would be very, very interesting to get his opinion.

Oh, and Peetster, I think Germany has the world's third strongest economy. They're hardly "spinning off to obscurity".

I am surprised to hear terms like "communist" and "socialist" being flung around as insults. The Cold War is over.

geep · 06-18-2003, 02:58 PM

Scipio-

I didn't say the Taliban was gone. I said it no longer controlled the government, just like Rush Limbaugh does not speak for all conservatives.

Easytiger-

I did not mean to offend any communists or socialists. If you or anyone else were offended, I'm sorry. What is going on in Australia?

Easytiger · 06-18-2003, 03:38 PM

No offence taken, geep, and I was merely taking a general position. Communism is no longer a threat, and while the practice of it has tended to suck, it is a lovely idea. I find it weird that people still bandy it around like an insult is all.

I don't know what's going on in Australia except that our Prime Minister is deeply conservative and madly in love with the idea of bringing us back to traditional 1950's values (including racism and xenophobia as well as some of the better ones like family values, unfortunately).

06-18-2003, 02:35 AM	#2 (permalink)
Pacifier undead Location: Duisburg, Germany	exellent articel, and for democracy beeing an obstacle: "If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." (<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/12/18/bush.wrap/index.html">George Bush</a>) __________________ "It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death — Albert Einstein

06-18-2003, 05:38 AM	#3 (permalink)
Sparhawk Dubya Location: VA	Sigh.... November 2004 seems so far away after reading stuff like this. __________________ "In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

06-18-2003, 05:47 AM	#4 (permalink)
Daval Junkie Location: The True North Strong and Free!	Great Article. Puts a lot of things into perspective. __________________ "It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it." Winston Churchill

06-18-2003, 06:02 AM	#5 (permalink)
Prophecy Oracle & Apollyon Location: Limbus Patrum	waits for Liquor Dealer And Sparhawk, Bush has already gathered more funds for his re-election campaign then all the Democratic canidates put together. He gathered 3 mill last night I believe at his 2K a pieace dinner. Like him or not, Bush seems to have an awful lot of support. __________________ La Disciplina È La Mia Spada, La Fede È Il Mio Schermo, Non salti Ciecamente In Incertezza, E Potete Raccogliere Le Ricompense. Last edited by Prophecy; 06-18-2003 at 06:07 AM..

06-18-2003, 06:10 AM	#6 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	"It is very difficult to speak of what is happening in America without resorting to the hyperbolic cliches of anti-Americanism that have lost their meaning after so many decades, but that have now finally come true." Does this simply say he is just repeating all the "cliches of anti-Americanism that have lost their meaning after sp many decades"? Same old song - different verse. There are a lot of things about the Bush administration I don't care for - mainly the relationship with Ashcroft which I assume will go away before 2004. This article seems to be a really good example of reductio ad absurdum. Continued blasts at the wearing of the flight suit are a perfect example - He wasn't wearing a military uniform - he was wearing a flight suit - a flight suit! The exact same type of flight suit anyone must wear when flying in an unpresurized jet aircraft. Check out a reporter after they have been luck enough to get a ride with the Thunderbirds or Blue Angels. Same flight suit. PS If I didn't type so slow you wouldn't have had to wait. __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!! Last edited by Liquor Dealer; 06-18-2003 at 06:27 AM..

06-18-2003, 06:12 AM	#7 (permalink)
geep Insane Location: Imprisoned in Ecotopia	So, what we're to conclude from this article is that european media sources have a leftist agenda, too? Why does that not surprise me.

06-18-2003, 06:23 AM	#8 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	Can I get an "AMEN!"?!? What makes me maddest is that Bush isn't even TRYING to cover up what he's doing - tax cuts for the rich, establishment of American global hegemony, institution of evangelical Christian policy - and NOBODY SEEMS TO CARE!?! The man is too stupid to be evil, but has surrounded himself with some of the most frightening ideologues on the face of the earth. And people are too busy working to pay off their SUVs to notice. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

06-18-2003, 07:28 AM	#9 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	most of the things in there are true. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

06-18-2003, 07:49 AM	#11 (permalink)
Prophecy Oracle & Apollyon Location: Limbus Patrum	Yep, it is true, but its just a matter of spin. If I felt like it(which I don't) I could take the same facts stated above and write an article totally opposite of this one. News as a whole in the U.S. and abroad when dealing with U.S. dealings seems so one sided now a days __________________ La Disciplina È La Mia Spada, La Fede È Il Mio Schermo, Non salti Ciecamente In Incertezza, E Potete Raccogliere Le Ricompense.

06-18-2003, 08:00 AM	#13 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Spin from the left? Imagine that? I'd almost forgotten they can do it too... Clearly the article is meant to be inflamatory and while much of it is true it must be taken with a grain of salt. True that it was a flight suit and not a uniform per se BUT it was clearly a photo op if I've ever seen one. His handlers made damn sure that he was seen and photographed wearing that flight suit. It sent out a very specific message. As for his taxation and religious mandates. Dead on. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

06-18-2003, 09:44 AM	#17 (permalink)
Prophecy Oracle & Apollyon Location: Limbus Patrum	I don't remember where President's were born very well, but I think you mean Truman, right? __________________ La Disciplina È La Mia Spada, La Fede È Il Mio Schermo, Non salti Ciecamente In Incertezza, E Potete Raccogliere Le Ricompense.

06-18-2003, 09:53 AM	#18 (permalink)
Peetster Right Now Location: Home	Germany is spinning off to obscurity. They macht nichts. The rantings that come from a country that now has zero influence are of no consequence to me.

06-18-2003, 02:45 PM	#24 (permalink)
Easytiger Insane Location: Tigerland	I'd love to read Weinberger's take on what's going on here in Australia. It would be very, very interesting to get his opinion. Oh, and Peetster, I think Germany has the world's third strongest economy. They're hardly "spinning off to obscurity". I am surprised to hear terms like "communist" and "socialist" being flung around as insults. The Cold War is over.

06-18-2003, 02:58 PM	#25 (permalink)
geep Insane Location: Imprisoned in Ecotopia	Scipio- I didn't say the Taliban was gone. I said it no longer controlled the government, just like Rush Limbaugh does not speak for all conservatives. Easytiger- I did not mean to offend any communists or socialists. If you or anyone else were offended, I'm sorry. What is going on in Australia?

06-18-2003, 03:38 PM	#26 (permalink)
Easytiger Insane Location: Tigerland	No offence taken, geep, and I was merely taking a general position. Communism is no longer a threat, and while the practice of it has tended to suck, it is a lovely idea. I find it weird that people still bandy it around like an insult is all. I don't know what's going on in Australia except that our Prime Minister is deeply conservative and madly in love with the idea of bringing us back to traditional 1950's values (including racism and xenophobia as well as some of the better ones like family values, unfortunately).