Saudi Arabia and the arms deal - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

pai mei · 09-02-2007, 12:40 AM

Bush sells weapons to Saudi Arabia. 15 out of the 19 hijackers who did 9/11 came from there (official list) :

Quote:

The Bush administration is preparing to ask Congress to approve an arms sale package for Saudi Arabia and its neighbors that is expected to eventually total $20 billion at a time

I am not saying "attack Saudi Arabia". If the USA is a friend of Saudi Arabia then it would be easy to find out who financed the hijackers and so on.

What's going on in Saudi Arabia :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/1874471.stm

Quote:

Saudi Arabia's religious police stopped schoolgirls from leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing correct Islamic dress, according to Saudi newspapers.
In a rare criticism of the kingdom's powerful "mutaween" police, the Saudi media has accused them of hindering attempts to save 15 girls who died in the fire on Monday.

One witness said he saw three policemen "beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya".

The Saudi Gazette quoted witnesses as saying that the police - known as the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice - had stopped men who tried to help the girls and warned "it is sinful to approach them".

seretogis · 09-02-2007, 03:31 AM

Are they.. holding.. hands..?

Willravel · 09-02-2007, 05:02 AM

We should have attacked them ages ago. Instead we have an oil circle jerk going. It makes me sick.

Edit: Posted too early. As far as the Middle East goes, many if not most of the supposed terrorists, or more accurately destabilizing persons and organizations of a radical philosophical nature, are grown and bred in Saudi Arabia. While they are given the best oil deals, and aren't attacked, they still live under a repressive and unstable monarchy. This monarchy just happens to have strong and friendly ties to strong families and organizations in the US. Compare that to Iran, which actually stabilizes the ME.

Plan9 · 09-02-2007, 06:36 AM

(worries)

Were they phased plasma rifles in 40 watt range?

Baraka_Guru · 09-02-2007, 07:43 AM

Two other reasons:

1) The U.S. needs money like this to fund wars.

2) The U.S. is banking on Saudi Arabia being one of the few Middle Eastern countries who won't side with Iran when things go down.

Do the details of 9/11 even matter? Bush did go into Iraq after all.

Charlatan · 09-02-2007, 02:34 PM

Yes the hijackers were of Saudi origin, but until you can make a link between the government and those Saudi citizens I don't see how selling weapons to another nation is problematic (given this particular argument).

The fact of the matter is, the Saudi military needs the arms to keep people like the terrorists from over throwing their monarchy. Without the support of US arms (and this goes back to Roosevelt) the House of Saud would have fallen long ago.

The question is what would replace it?

Better the enemy you know than the one you don't... no?

Elphaba · 09-02-2007, 07:48 PM

Doesn't this simply replace the arms race of the cold war, with another in the Middle East? This will not stabilize the region, but rather create greater threats between nations.

Is it necessary to ask who wins by this Bush policy?

Baraka_Guru · 09-08-2007, 09:02 PM

The difference, here, is that the U.S. is by far the greatest military might in the world, and they are supplying arms to other nations over which they hope to hold great influence. Think Saudi Arabia and Israel. They look to these nations as a counterbalance to their greatest perceived threat: militant and rogue Islamic states. I suppose this is similar to the Cold War, when the threat was Communism. But I think this new situation is a bit more complex.

The reason why this is worse than the Cold War is because Americans are arming people in a region that doesn't necessarily share its values. How close in values are Americans, Saudi Arabians, and Israelis? This isn't the Communists vs. the Capitalists here. This is religion, resources, politics, and history--you name it.

America is feeding fuel into a bomb just waiting to go off.

albania · 09-12-2007, 02:53 PM

"There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know."

There are too many unknown unknowns in this situation.

09-02-2007, 03:31 AM	#2 (permalink)
seretogis Huggles, sir? Location: Seattle	Are they.. holding.. hands..? __________________ seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

09-02-2007, 05:02 AM	#3 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	We should have attacked them ages ago. Instead we have an oil circle jerk going. It makes me sick. Edit: Posted too early. As far as the Middle East goes, many if not most of the supposed terrorists, or more accurately destabilizing persons and organizations of a radical philosophical nature, are grown and bred in Saudi Arabia. While they are given the best oil deals, and aren't attacked, they still live under a repressive and unstable monarchy. This monarchy just happens to have strong and friendly ties to strong families and organizations in the US. Compare that to Iran, which actually stabilizes the ME. Last edited by Willravel; 09-02-2007 at 06:48 AM..

09-02-2007, 06:36 AM	#4 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	(worries) Were they phased plasma rifles in 40 watt range? __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

09-02-2007, 07:43 AM	#5 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	Two other reasons: 1) The U.S. needs money like this to fund wars. 2) The U.S. is banking on Saudi Arabia being one of the few Middle Eastern countries who won't side with Iran when things go down. Do the details of 9/11 even matter? Bush did go into Iraq after all. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

09-02-2007, 02:34 PM	#6 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Yes the hijackers were of Saudi origin, but until you can make a link between the government and those Saudi citizens I don't see how selling weapons to another nation is problematic (given this particular argument). The fact of the matter is, the Saudi military needs the arms to keep people like the terrorists from over throwing their monarchy. Without the support of US arms (and this goes back to Roosevelt) the House of Saud would have fallen long ago. The question is what would replace it? Better the enemy you know than the one you don't... no? __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

09-02-2007, 07:48 PM	#7 (permalink)
Elphaba Deja Moo Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA	Doesn't this simply replace the arms race of the cold war, with another in the Middle East? This will not stabilize the region, but rather create greater threats between nations. Is it necessary to ask who wins by this Bush policy? __________________ "You can't ignore politics, no matter how much you'd like to." Molly Ivins - 1944-2007

09-08-2007, 09:02 PM	#8 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	The difference, here, is that the U.S. is by far the greatest military might in the world, and they are supplying arms to other nations over which they hope to hold great influence. Think Saudi Arabia and Israel. They look to these nations as a counterbalance to their greatest perceived threat: militant and rogue Islamic states. I suppose this is similar to the Cold War, when the threat was Communism. But I think this new situation is a bit more complex. The reason why this is worse than the Cold War is because Americans are arming people in a region that doesn't necessarily share its values. How close in values are Americans, Saudi Arabians, and Israelis? This isn't the Communists vs. the Capitalists here. This is religion, resources, politics, and history--you name it. America is feeding fuel into a bomb just waiting to go off. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot Last edited by Baraka_Guru; 09-08-2007 at 09:09 PM..

09-12-2007, 02:53 PM	#9 (permalink)
albania Psycho	"There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know." There are too many unknown unknowns in this situation.