new poll of american about the war - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Dilbert1234567 · 06-16-2003, 09:34 AM

ok this is real scary how ignorant some people are

in a recent poll, 33% of those polled think we have found WMD in iraq (not that ther are WMD, that we have Found them)

a further 25% think that Iraq used WMD agains us in the recent war, again false

here's teh article in full

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/n...nt/6085261.htm

Quote:

War poll uncovers fact gap
Many mistakenly believe U.S. found WMDs in Iraq.
By Frank Davies
Inquirer Washington Bureau

WASHINGTON - A third of the American public believes U.S. forces
have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, according to a recent poll. Twenty-two percent said Iraq actually used chemical or biological weapons.

But such weapons have not been found in Iraq and were not used.

Before the war, half of those polled in a survey said Iraqis were among the 19 hijackers on Sept. 11, 2001. But most of the Sept. 11 terrorists were Saudis; none was an Iraqi.

The results startled even the pollsters who conducted and analyzed the surveys. How could so many people be so wrong about information that has dominated news coverage for almost two years?

"It's a striking finding," said Steve Kull, director of the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland, which asked the weapons questions during a May 14-18 poll of 1,256 respondents.

He added: "Given the intensive news coverage and high levels of public attention, this level of misinformation suggests some Americans may be avoiding having an experience of cognitive dissonance."

That is, of having their beliefs conflict with the facts. Kull noted that the mistaken belief that weapons had been found "is substantially greater among those who favored the war."

Pollsters and political analysts offer several reasons for the gaps between facts and beliefs: the public's short attention span on foreign news, fragmentary or conflicting media reports that lacked depth or skepticism, and Bush administration efforts to sell a war by oversimplifying the threat.

"Most people get little whiffs and fragments of news, not in any organized way," said Thomas Mann, a scholar at the Brookings Institution, a centrist-liberal think tank. "And there have been a lot of conflicting reports on the weapons."

Before the war, the U.S. media often reported as a fact the assertions by the Bush administration that Iraq possessed large stockpiles of illegal weapons.

During and after the war, reports of possible weapons discoveries were often trumpeted on front pages, while follow-up stories debunking the reports received less attention.

"There were so many reports and claims before the war, it was easy to be confused," said Larry Hugick, chairman of Princeton Survey Research Associates. "But people expected the worst from Saddam Hussein and made connections based on the administration's policy."

Bush has described the preemptive attack on Iraq as "one victory in the war on terror that began Sept. 11." Bush officials also say Iraq sheltered and helped al-Qaeda operatives.

"The public is susceptible to manipulation, and if they hear officials saying there is a strong connection between Iraq and al-Qaeda terrorists, then they think there must be a connection," Mann said.

"Tapping into the feelings and fears after Sept. 11 is a way to sell a policy," he added.

Polls show strong support for Bush and the war, although 40 percent in the May survey found U.S. officials were "misleading" in some of their justifications for war. A majority, 55 percent, said they were not misleading.

Several analysts said the murky claims and intelligence data about lethal weapons and terrorist ties allowed most people to see such news through the filter of their own political beliefs.

And GOP pollsters said any controversy over weapons won't change public attitudes, because ridding Iraq of an oppressive regime was reason enough for war for many Americans.

"People supported the war for national-security reasons, and that shifted to humanitarian reasons when they saw evidence of Saddam's atrocities," Republican strategist Frank Luntz said. "There's an assumption these weapons will be found because this guy was doing so many bad things."

Several analysts said they were troubled by the lack of knowledge about the Sept. 11 hijackers, shown in the January survey conducted for Knight Ridder newspapers. Only 17 percent correctly said that none of the hijackers was Iraqi.

"That really bothers me, because it shows a lack of understanding about other countries - that maybe many Americans don't know one Arab from another," said Sam Popkin, a polling expert at the University of California-San Diego who has advised Democratic candidates. "Maybe because Saudis are seen as rich and friendly, people have a hard time dealing with them as hijackers."

Hugick said his analysis showed those who were misinformed were not necessarily those who had less education.

"I think a lot of people are just confused about the threats out there," he said.

4thTimeLucky · 06-16-2003, 10:48 AM

This reminds me of the fact that no matter how frustrated I get with some people on TFP they are at least well informed and make the effort to keep themselves so.

When a population knows so little about the wars their governments' are fighting and the countries they are fighting against then we should be worried. Sadly the US government isn't guilty of its usual failing- not informing its citizens - instead it is guilty of a worse demeanor - misinforming its citizens.

I can't remember where I read it, but I recently saw a good article on the way that Bush cleverly puts two statements next to each other in such a way as to make it appear that he is saying something, when a close analysis will show that he only alludes to it - a deception without a lie. One of his favourite uses of this trick is WMDs, which would help explain why so many people are under the misperception that WMDs have been found, when the reality is that just two 'interesting' trucks have been found.

I can't help but wonder whether the US government is happy to let its citizens remain so ignorant, because when the population is ignorant you can feed them whatever line you want to and follow whatever policy you want to.

I think it must be a size thing. America (see also Russia, China, Brazil...) is a huge country with huge populations so information has always taken time to disperse. Therefore it can become normal for the periphery to be ill informed of the actions of the core. Whereas in smaller countries, e.g. European nations, news travels fast and most people feels that they are connected to government - we will almost all visit our capital and our parliament at least once (and often a lot more) in our lives, and any group from anywhere can march to the capital to demand justice and voice their grievance (and we have been marching to the capital for centuries).

geep · 06-16-2003, 11:18 AM

I'm not surprised that this is the case. After all , it seems the media now believes we went to war with Iraq simply to prove that they had WMD's. The poor average American citizen who reads the newspaper and watches the network news really doesn't know what to believe anymore.

Sparhawk · 06-16-2003, 11:21 AM

Indifference/Ignorance is a sad thing.

The_Dude · 06-16-2003, 11:27 AM

look @ the idiots that bush had to convice that we had a reason to go to war.

and as 4thtimelucky said, you could put "subliminal messages" (hehe!) and you could get these people to believe u.

Liquor Dealer · 06-16-2003, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Dude
look @ the idiots that bush had to convice that we had a reason to go to war.......

It was apparently the same group of international idiots that all agreed that weapons of mass destruction were there when they voted sanctions on Iraq - unanimously. Russia knew they were there, France knew they were there, Germany knew they were there, all of Iraqs neighbors knew they were there. They were all in favor of talking much and doing little. There was no objection at all untill push came to shove. Bush convinced no one to go to war. Common knowledge and a sense of necessity convinced us to go to war. Procrastination up to the point of obstructionism gave Iraq time to do whatever they chose before the other shoe dropped. What one might question, are the idiots still asking why!

The_Dude · 06-16-2003, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liquor Dealer
It was apparently the same group of international idiots that all agreed that weapons of mass destruction were there when they voted sanctions on Iraq - unanimously. Russia knew they were there, France knew they were there, Germany knew they were there, all of Iraqs neighbors knew they were there. They were all in favor of talking much and doing little. There was no objection at all untill push came to shove. Bush convinced no one to go to war. Common knowledge and a sense of necessity convinced us to go to war. Procrastination up to the point of obstructionism gave Iraq time to do whatever they chose before the other shoe dropped. What one might question, are the idiots still asking why!

2 response to that.

the "idiots" were refering to the stupidass dumbass people who dont know anything that is going on beyond their house, let alone international news.

2nd point : i actually watched a frontline special on this. the french foregin minister (villepin i think) and colin powell had a big misunderstanding on the issue. villapin didnt sign on to attack, the main reason for him signing on was to show support for america.

4thTimeLucky · 06-16-2003, 03:12 PM

Quote:

What one might question, are the idiots still asking why!

If I could understand the question, I'd try to give you an answer.

james t kirk · 06-16-2003, 03:21 PM

Well, do any of you ever watch Leno when he goes out into the street and asks the dumbest questions in the world and people don't have a clue.

Like, who is the vice president of the United States? or when is the next election, or who was the president during the civil war.

You hear the dumbest responses.

Rick mercer once went around Chicago asking people if they approved of the president commencing bombing on Saskatchewan and amazingly, people were all for it.

Or the bombing of the West Edmonton Mall, and again, people were all for it.

It never ceases to amaze me.

Sparhawk · 06-16-2003, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liquor Dealer
It was apparently the same group of international idiots that all agreed that weapons of mass destruction were there when they voted sanctions on Iraq - unanimously. Russia knew they were there, France knew they were there, Germany knew they were there, all of Iraqs neighbors knew they were there. They were all in favor of talking much and doing little. There was no objection at all untill push came to shove. Bush convinced no one to go to war. Common knowledge and a sense of necessity convinced us to go to war. Procrastination up to the point of obstructionism gave Iraq time to do whatever they chose before the other shoe dropped. What one might question, are the idiots still asking why!

Talking about 'giving the Iraqis more time to hide their weapons' is as much conspiracy-theory fodder as Bush having prior knowledge of 9.11...

Liquor Dealer · 06-16-2003, 04:09 PM

It is quite obvious that the three stoogie nations held up the UN - The other is purely a figmnet of someone's imagination unless there is one iota of something resembling evidence somewhere - if there is, I'll be the first to say shoot the SOB's - until I see some proof it's bullshit!

Sparhawk · 06-16-2003, 04:20 PM

They had 4 years without inspectors, another 7 with inspectors! You think 4 months made a bit of difference? Doubtful.

Liquor Dealer · 06-16-2003, 05:22 PM

Something to consider:

Members of the Senate Intelligence Committee announced this weekend that it will investigate charges of exaggerated intelligence. The House Intelligence panel has already announced its own inquiry. Hearings, probably behind closed doors, will include questioning of intelligence analysts about their work.

Though the aide said the president does not resent the idea of a congressional investigation, Bush asserted that the United States went to war to respond to a very real threat.

"Saddam Hussein was a threat to America and the free world in '91, in '98, in 2003. He continually ignored the demands of the free world, so the United States and friends and allies acted," Bush said. "And this is for certain: Saddam Hussein is no longer a threat to the United States and our friends and allies."

Centrist Democrats of the Democratic Leadership Council, quibble with the president on many fronts, this time agree with Bush, saying the hunt for weapons of mass destruction is not cause for argument.

"If the Bush administration was wrong about Saddam's WMD program, so, too, was just about everybody else, including U.N. inspectors, the French, the Germans, the Russians and the Chinese, all of whom accepted prior evidence of such a program is beyond doubt," the DLC said in a statement.

Evidence or no evidence, many familiar with the intelligence say they believe Saddam voluntarily gave up his weapons after inspectors left in 1998.

"Some are suggesting, certainly, that he destroyed the weapons after 1998 or maybe even sooner," Rep. Jane Harman, D-Calif., ranking member of the House intelligence Committee, told Fox News. "It's just counterintuitive that he would have done that. His would have been the greatest intelligence hoax of all time, fooling every intelligence agency, three presidents, five secretaries of defense and the entire world into thinking he still had the weapons."

Fox News' Jim Angle contributed to this report.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,89583,00.html

XenuHubbard · 06-16-2003, 09:09 PM

He didn't fool the entire world. Just the USA, apparently. The inspections were there to see if he had WMD's. The war was about destroying those WMD's.

KillerYoda · 06-16-2003, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by XenuHubbard
He didn't fool the entire world. Just the USA, apparently. The inspections were there to see if he had WMD's. The war was about destroying those WMD's.

The war was about ousting Saddam Hussein's regime, or at least that's what the magical color box told me.

As far as surveys, you have to also remember, people who fill out surveys are usually morons anyways. I recall a survey a while back that reported most people think we fought the Soviets in World War 2.

XenuHubbard · 06-16-2003, 11:01 PM

True. My bad.

I think that the current US government should stop giving reasons for invading other countries.

I mean, they will invade without support, and they give the best reasons after the fighting anyway.

4thTimeLucky · 06-17-2003, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KillerYoda
The war was about ousting Saddam Hussein's regime, or at least that's what the magical color box told me.

As far as surveys, you have to also remember, people who fill out surveys are usually morons anyways. I recall a survey a while back that reported most people think we fought the Soviets in World War 2.

Maybe it was wishful thinking or denial.

The Americans would have fought the Soviets in WW2 if they hadn't taken their time deciding whether the Axis (Germany, Italy, Japan (&Russia)) assimilating Poland, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Belgium, France, Slovakia, Hungary, Croatia, Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Albania, Greece, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Egypt, Somaliland, Iraq and Crete was a bad thing or not, before eventually taking the staggering step of using troops to make a defensive stand.... in Greenland!! (10 April 1941)

PS Thank you Canada for taking just one week to make the same decision!

KillerYoda · 06-17-2003, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 4thTimeLucky
The Americans would have fought the Soviets in WW2 if they hadn't taken their time deciding whether the Axis (Germany, Italy, Japan (&Russia)) assimilating Poland, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Belgium, France, Slovakia, Hungary, Croatia, Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Albania, Greece, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Egypt, Somaliland, Iraq and Crete was a bad thing or not, before eventually taking the staggering step of using troops to make a defensive stand.... in Greenland!! (10 April 1941)

Oh, I know all about the Russo-German Anti-Aggression Pact and whatnot, but the people I'm talking about think we fought <b>just</b> the Soviets!

4thTimeLucky · 06-17-2003, 03:34 AM

I find it impossible to believe that "most" Americans think that the only European nation you fought in WW2 was the Soviets (let alone the only nation you fought full stop).

I have come to accept many incredible statistics about the beliefs of the American populace, but you're going to have to back this one up with a reference I'm afraid. I do give Americans some credit!

KillerYoda · 06-17-2003, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 4thTimeLucky
I find it impossible to believe that "most" Americans think that the only European nation you fought in WW2 was the Soviets (let alone the only nation you fought full stop).

I have come to accept many incredible statistics about the beliefs of the American populace, but you're going to have to back this one up with a reference I'm afraid. I do give Americans some credit!

It was most of the people <i>surveyed</i> and I think I was a certain age group, like 16 to 25. I should have been more specific about the ages. It was supposed to illustrate how dumb Gen-X was. I think it was on Dateline. It was a few years back, hence the lack of a reference so far.

The_Dude · 06-17-2003, 04:21 AM

i remember reading on tfp about bush's resume (btw i have it saved if anyone wants it) and one of the facts on there was something like "70% of europeans view me as the #1 threat to world peace"

geep · 06-17-2003, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KillerYoda
The war was about ousting Saddam Hussein's regime, or at least that's what the magical color box told me.

Quote:

Originally posted by XenuHubbard
The war was about destroying those WMD's.

My impression was that we were going to war to prevent Saddam Hussein from having the capability to deliver WMDs into the hands of terrorists.

Given the confusion over CURRENT topics, it's no wonder the beliefs of the American populace is so screwed up. I think the "magical color box" likes it that way.

Daval · 06-18-2003, 06:20 AM

The US changed the reason for the war every week trying to gain support untill they finally just said fuck it and invaded.

Hence we can't even come to a consensus on this board for the reasons - it kept changing so much!

The_Dude · 06-18-2003, 07:34 AM

and after the invasion, we're still looking for a reason

hiredgun · 06-18-2003, 10:03 AM

I agree with many of you, this doesn't surprise me, but it does sadden me. and whoever mentioned Jaywalking on Leno is right, the vast majority of people don't have a clue about anything beyond their own neighborhoods. I used to be such a firm believer in democracy (how could I not be, I mean it's indoctrinated into you by the time you're a kid here in US public schools (and i'm not saying that's a bad thing)), but every time I see "public opinion", if there is such a thing, being swayed not by facts but by mass media or apathetic tendencies I wonder if it's really the best way to go about doing things.

06-16-2003, 10:48 AM	#2 (permalink)
4thTimeLucky Psycho Location: 4th has left the building - goodbye folks	This reminds me of the fact that no matter how frustrated I get with some people on TFP they are at least well informed and make the effort to keep themselves so. When a population knows so little about the wars their governments' are fighting and the countries they are fighting against then we should be worried. Sadly the US government isn't guilty of its usual failing- not informing its citizens - instead it is guilty of a worse demeanor - misinforming its citizens. I can't remember where I read it, but I recently saw a good article on the way that Bush cleverly puts two statements next to each other in such a way as to make it appear that he is saying something, when a close analysis will show that he only alludes to it - a deception without a lie. One of his favourite uses of this trick is WMDs, which would help explain why so many people are under the misperception that WMDs have been found, when the reality is that just two 'interesting' trucks have been found. I can't help but wonder whether the US government is happy to let its citizens remain so ignorant, because when the population is ignorant you can feed them whatever line you want to and follow whatever policy you want to. I think it must be a size thing. America (see also Russia, China, Brazil...) is a huge country with huge populations so information has always taken time to disperse. Therefore it can become normal for the periphery to be ill informed of the actions of the core. Whereas in smaller countries, e.g. European nations, news travels fast and most people feels that they are connected to government - we will almost all visit our capital and our parliament at least once (and often a lot more) in our lives, and any group from anywhere can march to the capital to demand justice and voice their grievance (and we have been marching to the capital for centuries). __________________ I've been 4thTimeLucky, you've been great. Goodnight and God bless!

06-16-2003, 11:21 AM	#4 (permalink)
Sparhawk Dubya Location: VA	Indifference/Ignorance is a sad thing. __________________ "In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

06-16-2003, 11:27 AM	#5 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	look @ the idiots that bush had to convice that we had a reason to go to war. and as 4thtimelucky said, you could put "subliminal messages" (hehe!) and you could get these people to believe u. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

06-16-2003, 04:09 PM	#11 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	It is quite obvious that the three stoogie nations held up the UN - The other is purely a figmnet of someone's imagination unless there is one iota of something resembling evidence somewhere - if there is, I'll be the first to say shoot the SOB's - until I see some proof it's bullshit! __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

06-16-2003, 04:20 PM	#12 (permalink)
Sparhawk Dubya Location: VA	They had 4 years without inspectors, another 7 with inspectors! You think 4 months made a bit of difference? Doubtful. __________________ "In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

06-16-2003, 11:18 AM	#3 (permalink)
geep Insane Location: Imprisoned in Ecotopia	I'm not surprised that this is the case. After all , it seems the media now believes we went to war with Iraq simply to prove that they had WMD's. The poor average American citizen who reads the newspaper and watches the network news really doesn't know what to believe anymore.

06-16-2003, 03:21 PM	#9 (permalink)
james t kirk Junkie Location: Toronto	Well, do any of you ever watch Leno when he goes out into the street and asks the dumbest questions in the world and people don't have a clue. Like, who is the vice president of the United States? or when is the next election, or who was the president during the civil war. You hear the dumbest responses. Rick mercer once went around Chicago asking people if they approved of the president commencing bombing on Saskatchewan and amazingly, people were all for it. Or the bombing of the West Edmonton Mall, and again, people were all for it. It never ceases to amaze me.

06-16-2003, 05:22 PM	#13 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	Something to consider: Members of the Senate Intelligence Committee announced this weekend that it will investigate charges of exaggerated intelligence. The House Intelligence panel has already announced its own inquiry. Hearings, probably behind closed doors, will include questioning of intelligence analysts about their work. Though the aide said the president does not resent the idea of a congressional investigation, Bush asserted that the United States went to war to respond to a very real threat. "Saddam Hussein was a threat to America and the free world in '91, in '98, in 2003. He continually ignored the demands of the free world, so the United States and friends and allies acted," Bush said. "And this is for certain: Saddam Hussein is no longer a threat to the United States and our friends and allies." Centrist Democrats of the Democratic Leadership Council, quibble with the president on many fronts, this time agree with Bush, saying the hunt for weapons of mass destruction is not cause for argument. "If the Bush administration was wrong about Saddam's WMD program, so, too, was just about everybody else, including U.N. inspectors, the French, the Germans, the Russians and the Chinese, all of whom accepted prior evidence of such a program is beyond doubt," the DLC said in a statement. Evidence or no evidence, many familiar with the intelligence say they believe Saddam voluntarily gave up his weapons after inspectors left in 1998. "Some are suggesting, certainly, that he destroyed the weapons after 1998 or maybe even sooner," Rep. Jane Harman, D-Calif., ranking member of the House intelligence Committee, told Fox News. "It's just counterintuitive that he would have done that. His would have been the greatest intelligence hoax of all time, fooling every intelligence agency, three presidents, five secretaries of defense and the entire world into thinking he still had the weapons." Fox News' Jim Angle contributed to this report. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,89583,00.html __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

06-16-2003, 09:09 PM	#14 (permalink)
XenuHubbard Cute and Cuddly Location: Teegeeack.	He didn't fool the entire world. Just the USA, apparently. The inspections were there to see if he had WMD's. The war was about destroying those WMD's. __________________ The above was written by a true prophet. Trust me. "What doesn't kill you, makes you bitter and paranoid". - SB2000

06-16-2003, 11:01 PM	#16 (permalink)
XenuHubbard Cute and Cuddly Location: Teegeeack.	True. My bad. I think that the current US government should stop giving reasons for invading other countries. I mean, they will invade without support, and they give the best reasons after the fighting anyway. __________________ The above was written by a true prophet. Trust me. "What doesn't kill you, makes you bitter and paranoid". - SB2000

06-17-2003, 03:34 AM	#19 (permalink)
4thTimeLucky Psycho Location: 4th has left the building - goodbye folks	I find it impossible to believe that "most" Americans think that the only European nation you fought in WW2 was the Soviets (let alone the only nation you fought full stop). I have come to accept many incredible statistics about the beliefs of the American populace, but you're going to have to back this one up with a reference I'm afraid. I do give Americans some credit! __________________ I've been 4thTimeLucky, you've been great. Goodnight and God bless!

06-17-2003, 04:21 AM	#21 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	i remember reading on tfp about bush's resume (btw i have it saved if anyone wants it) and one of the facts on there was something like "70% of europeans view me as the #1 threat to world peace" __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

06-18-2003, 06:20 AM	#23 (permalink)
Daval Junkie Location: The True North Strong and Free!	The US changed the reason for the war every week trying to gain support untill they finally just said fuck it and invaded. Hence we can't even come to a consensus on this board for the reasons - it kept changing so much! __________________ "It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it." Winston Churchill

06-18-2003, 07:34 AM	#24 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	and after the invasion, we're still looking for a reason __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

06-18-2003, 10:03 AM	#25 (permalink)
hiredgun Addict	I agree with many of you, this doesn't surprise me, but it does sadden me. and whoever mentioned Jaywalking on Leno is right, the vast majority of people don't have a clue about anything beyond their own neighborhoods. I used to be such a firm believer in democracy (how could I not be, I mean it's indoctrinated into you by the time you're a kid here in US public schools (and i'm not saying that's a bad thing)), but every time I see "public opinion", if there is such a thing, being swayed not by facts but by mass media or apathetic tendencies I wonder if it's really the best way to go about doing things.