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Old 06-17-2007, 04:14 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Welcome home...Thanks for...uh.....

Another story of just how much we as a society appreciate the contributions of our Military once they are done doing what we ask of them:

Quote:
The War Inside

By Dana Priest and Anne Hull
Sunday, June 17, 2007

Army Spec. Jeans Cruz helped capture Saddam Hussein. When he came home to the Bronx, important people called him a war hero and promised to help him start a new life. The mayor of New York, officials of his parents' home town in Puerto Rico, the borough president and other local dignitaries honored him with plaques and silk parade sashes. They handed him their business cards and urged him to phone.

But a "black shadow" had followed Cruz home from Iraq, he confided to an Army counselor. He was hounded by recurring images of how war really was for him: not the triumphant scene of Hussein in handcuffs, but visions of dead Iraqi children.

Jeans Cruz lives with his family in a Bronx housing project, where a shooting left a door perforated with bullet holes, above. Among the family photographs on their living-room wall, below, hang plaques honoring Cruz for his service and his role in helping capture Saddam Hussein. What the former soldier remembers most about the war, however, is death; he recalls moving the bodies of Iraqi children.
Jeans Cruz lives with his family in a Bronx housing project, where a shooting left a door perforated with bullet holes, above. Among the family photographs on their living-room wall, below, hang plaques honoring Cruz for his service and his role in helping capture Saddam Hussein. What the former soldier remembers most about the war, however, is death; he recalls moving the bodies of Iraqi children.

In public, the former Army scout stood tall for the cameras and marched in the parades. In private, he slashed his forearms to provoke the pain and adrenaline of combat. He heard voices and smelled stale blood. Soon the offers of help evaporated and he found himself estranged and alone, struggling with financial collapse and a darkening depression.

At a low point, he went to the local Department of Veterans Affairs medical center for help. One VA psychologist diagnosed Cruz with post-traumatic stress disorder. His condition was labeled "severe and chronic." In a letter supporting his request for PTSD-related disability pay, the psychologist wrote that Cruz was "in need of major help" and that he had provided "more than enough evidence" to back up his PTSD claim. His combat experiences, the letter said, "have been well documented."

None of that seemed to matter when his case reached VA disability evaluators. They turned him down flat, ruling that he deserved no compensation because his psychological problems existed before he joined the Army. They also said that Cruz had not proved he was ever in combat. "The available evidence is insufficient to confirm that you actually engaged in combat," his rejection letter stated.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

Truly we are a broken society if we cannot even live up to the protection of our protectors. This is but one story of thousands to come over the next decade if we continue to fail these soldiers. The type of warfare, combined with advances in technology meant to save lives has increased the number of trauma victims exponentially, and we have not adjusted for this reality in the way we treat mental, and physical damage in the system. I fear we are about to witness an onslaught of returning soldiers who will not be helped as they should be.
We look to the failures in planning for the aftermath of this invasion with dismay, yet we ignore the inevitable failure in planning we might be able to avoid still. The recent Walter Reed scandals should have indicated issues in need of attention, yet I have seen little other than window dressing directed toward the underlying problems.....and it worries me very much.
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Old 06-17-2007, 07:43 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Tecoyah, I absolutely agree that the way we treat our vets is shameful.

The military medicine and VA systems have been seriously broken for decades now, and the current strains we are putting on them are really bringing these issues to the fore.

If you read what ex mil-med types have to say about the system, I think you'd find that the flaws here are so systemic and long-standing that it is nearly impossible to decide how to fix it.
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Old 06-17-2007, 08:15 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubertuber
Tecoyah, I absolutely agree that the way we treat our vets is shameful.

The military medicine and VA systems have been seriously broken for decades now, and the current strains we are putting on them are really bringing these issues to the fore.

If you read what ex mil-med types have to say about the system, I think you'd find that the flaws here are so systemic and long-standing that it is nearly impossible to decide how to fix it.
Agreed.

And, um, on a related note, perhaps we should fix our completely broken and insufficient healthcare system for veterans before we pretend to be able to devise a working one for the other 300 million Americans.
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Old 06-18-2007, 01:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
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The phonomenon has been around sor many, many years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudyard Kipling

Tommy

I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o'beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:

O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's ``Thank you, Mister Atkins, when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's ``Thank you, Mr. Atkins, when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.


Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy how's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints:
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;

While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind,"
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.


For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country," when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
But Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!

Retrieved from "http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Tommy"
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Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine

╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

Last edited by Daniel_; 06-18-2007 at 01:13 PM..
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Old 06-18-2007, 01:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Tec, I'm sorry, but other than Spec. Cruz's deplorable situation, this isn't news. It's a shame. It's a minor tragedy. It's a sad statement. It's not news.

Most soldiers returning from wartime, here and abroad, in almost every war, have returned to bad situations. Oddessius returned to find his wife considering remarriage. My great grandfather returned from France in 1919 to find the family farm about to be foreclosed upon. Civil War soldiers, particularly on the Confederate side, returned to find their families and/or homes gone.

The exception is the WWII veterans, who returned to the GI Bill and other perks. They, however, did suffer through the post-war recession, although I don't suppose anyone's to blame for that.
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Old 06-18-2007, 01:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Maybe he should look up bruce willis.... he did offer millions or whatever to whoever stepped up to claim it as the captor of saddam didn't he?
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Old 06-18-2007, 01:52 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Jazz
Tec, I'm sorry, but other than Spec. Cruz's deplorable situation, this isn't news. It's a shame. It's a minor tragedy. It's a sad statement. It's not news.
Clinical depression and suicide among veterans is news, and something must be done. I don't even approve of the troops actions a lot of the time, but I'll be damned if I'll ignore them in their time of need. A minor tragedy would be something like /this.

Not only are our troops being killed, but those who survive are mentally distressed to an extreme degree and ignoring them is absolutely wrong.
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Old 06-18-2007, 02:00 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willravel
Clinical depression and suicide among veterans is news, and something must be done. I don't even approve of the troops actions a lot of the time, but I'll be damned if I'll ignore them in their time of need. A minor tragedy would be something like /this.

Not only are our troops being killed, but those who survive are mentally distressed to an extreme degree and ignoring them is absolutely wrong.
Will, again, this is nothing new, and it's not news. It's a tragedy, but it isn't even unexpected. There is always a higher rate of depression and suicide among combat veterans. There always will be.

You're in the extreme minority position on this board in that you're actually able to do something about the problem. The rest of us are neither educated enough nor licensed to be of any help.
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Old 06-18-2007, 02:01 PM   #9 (permalink)
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it's really not news, Vietnam vets dealt with it as well, its a normal side effect of war veterancy. I'm surprised how many people don't see this as a risk to enlistment. I guess its easy to go blind in the face of promises of a stable income, housing, and an education. The military quite often promises the world to prospecting recruits without mentioning just how fucked up in the head you can become from watching your buddies have thier bodies torn apart, or watching the target of your gun become a mutilated shower of red mist.

any NORMAL person would be fucked up from seeing this in person, and if they aren't well chances are they already had issues.

meh, Its sad, yes, but not news, My family was military as were my family's friends. That was enough of a taste of it for me.

I agree that ignoring them is wrong though. They really do need counseling and support when they come back.
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Old 06-18-2007, 02:21 PM   #10 (permalink)
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Jazz
Will, again, this is nothing new, and it's not news. It's a tragedy, but it isn't even unexpected. There is always a higher rate of depression and suicide among combat veterans. There always will be.

You're in the extreme minority position on this board in that you're actually able to do something about the problem. The rest of us are neither educated enough nor licensed to be of any help.
Well none of us can do anything about tornadoes, and they aren't anything new, but they're still news.

I really wish I could do something about it, but I'm not licensed. I only have the degree.
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Old 06-20-2007, 04:10 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Location: Spring, Texas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shauk
it's really not news, Vietnam vets dealt with it as well, its a normal side effect of war veterancy. I'm surprised how many people don't see this as a risk to enlistment. I guess its easy to go blind in the face of promises of a stable income, housing, and an education. The military quite often promises the world to prospecting recruits without mentioning just how fucked up in the head you can become from watching your buddies have thier bodies torn apart, or watching the target of your gun become a mutilated shower of red mist.

any NORMAL person would be fucked up from seeing this in person, and if they aren't well chances are they already had issues.

meh, Its sad, yes, but not news, My family was military as were my family's friends. That was enough of a taste of it for me.

I agree that ignoring them is wrong though. They really do need counseling and support when they come back.
I am supprised that so many of those NOT in the military don't think that those of us who have served, and volunteered for second tours DON'T see this, but STILL join, because we feel that it is just something that needs to be done. And I am NOT out here looking for stable income (HA! ARE YOU SERIOUS???), housing (heck, I can but a house better than the crap you get issued in the military!), and an education (ok, the Gi bill helped me get STARTED in my degree, the student loan took care of the rest, which I am still paying)

And I AM a normal person, am not "fucked up" by seeing this in person, and no I do NOT have issues! I feel well adjusted, and capable of handling many atrocities that I have seen, some of which I will not discuss here, because there really is no need to.
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