1981 Intelligence rules may be tossed by the White House? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

joshbaumgartner · 06-12-2007, 01:25 PM

Executive order 12333, which Reagan signed into force, may be changed or thrown out soon to allow significant changes in the national intelligence community before the end of the Bush presidency.

Quote:

WASHINGTON - The national intelligence director has won White House approval to begin revising an executive order that lays out each spy agency's responsibilities and the government's protections against spying on Americans.
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The Reagan-era 1981 presidential order is woven into the culture at the 16 spy agencies and spells out their powers. It also provides fundamental guidance to protect against spying on Americans, prohibitions against human experimentation and the long-standing ban on assassination.

Some officials familiar with Intelligence Director Mike McConnell's plans, speaking only on condition of anonymity because the deliberations remain internal, said his intent is solely to update the policy to reflect changes in the intelligence community since Sept. 11, 2001, including the creation of his own office.

But other officials, who also spoke on condition they not be identified, said opening the order to changes could lead well beyond that. They said the exercise could threaten civil liberties protections approved by President Reagan following intelligence abuses in the 1970s, and that intelligence agencies will be tempted to expand their powers.

Rest of article:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070612/.../new_spy_rules

To me, it is just another move to eliminate hurdles. The Administration is well known for chafing at the limitations, restrictions, regulations, protections, what-have-you, that keep them from doing whatever they want, whenever they want to. The freedom of government and corporations is always held in higher regard than the freedom of individuals by this crew.

They tell us the old line that its a new world since 9/11 and how this ancient 1981 rule is so 20th Century. I guess the Constitution is so 18th Century, we ought to toss that out too. Anything that gets in the way of the powers that be.

Also, as I recall, Reagan signed the order after a couple of decades of CIA assassinations and other activity was finally prompting Congress to get involved. If the order is rescinded, then I think it puts the burden on Congress to act quickly and proscribe the appropriate law at their level to provide protections and guidelines on activities to ensure that we can go get the intelligence we need, and we can engage in correct actions to stop terror, but that we don't repeat the mistakes of the 60s and 70s which caused significant problems for America and the world.

Josh

Elphaba · 06-12-2007, 02:44 PM

I've developed an eye twitch from the number of articles I've read like this one. If this is merely document housekeeping, why now? This falls too close to Bush's Executive Order that gives him unitary authority during any national emergency.

Nice seeing you again, Josh.

Willravel · 06-12-2007, 02:58 PM

What we need is a law prohibiting any assassination by anyone ever, then we need one prohibiting any kind of torture, whether you're an enemy combatant or POW.

This whole thing is why we are often the bad guy.

joshbaumgartner · 06-12-2007, 08:16 PM

Elphaba, thanks for the welcome back and I share your sentiment about how many of these things are being done.

And Will, I agree with all of those prohibitions. But that would take us as a nation deciding to truly be the good guys.

aceventura3 · 06-13-2007, 06:48 AM

There are written and unwritten rules. The written rules in a culture of secrecy, as in the intellegince community, has little value compared to the tone set by leadership. In my view changing the Executive Order 12333 won't change the way things are being done, but will change how information is reported.

I think it is in the public interest to have intelligence agency activity reported in a manner consistent with real activities when the information is eventually reported. Given our "global war on terror", often the target of our military is not another army but small groups or individuals. If we gather intelligence and then target a small group or individuals with lethal force is that a technical violation of Executive Order 12333? I think some could argue that it is, so I agree that it is time to further clarify it.

View Poll Results: Is EO12333 a necessary protection or obsolete stricture
12333 is a needed protection against excesses	1	50.00%
12333 needs to be relaxed for the War on Terror but not abandoned	1	50.00%
12333 is a dangerous impediment now and going forward that should be lifted	0	0%
12333 should be codified into law by the Congress	1	50.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 2. You may not vote on this poll

06-12-2007, 02:44 PM	#2 (permalink)
Elphaba Deja Moo Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA	I've developed an eye twitch from the number of articles I've read like this one. If this is merely document housekeeping, why now? This falls too close to Bush's Executive Order that gives him unitary authority during any national emergency. Nice seeing you again, Josh. __________________ "You can't ignore politics, no matter how much you'd like to." Molly Ivins - 1944-2007

06-13-2007, 06:48 AM	#5 (permalink)
aceventura3 Junkie Location: Ventura County	There are written and unwritten rules. The written rules in a culture of secrecy, as in the intellegince community, has little value compared to the tone set by leadership. In my view changing the Executive Order 12333 won't change the way things are being done, but will change how information is reported. I think it is in the public interest to have intelligence agency activity reported in a manner consistent with real activities when the information is eventually reported. Given our "global war on terror", often the target of our military is not another army but small groups or individuals. If we gather intelligence and then target a small group or individuals with lethal force is that a technical violation of Executive Order 12333? I think some could argue that it is, so I agree that it is time to further clarify it. __________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."

06-12-2007, 02:58 PM	#3 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	What we need is a law prohibiting any assassination by anyone ever, then we need one prohibiting any kind of torture, whether you're an enemy combatant or POW. This whole thing is why we are often the bad guy.

06-12-2007, 08:16 PM	#4 (permalink)
joshbaumgartner Insane	Elphaba, thanks for the welcome back and I share your sentiment about how many of these things are being done. And Will, I agree with all of those prohibitions. But that would take us as a nation deciding to truly be the good guys.