Libby Poll - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

tecoyah · 06-05-2007, 09:43 AM

So, it seems we are done playing the "Beat around the Bush" game (Pun Intended). I was wondering where we all sit on this issue, as far as the sentance.

Quote:

WASHINGTON -- Former White House aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby has been sentenced to 30 months in prison and a fine of $250,000 for perjury and obstruction of justice in the CIA leak case. He also will serve two years probation following the prison term.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/poli...11000306052007

The_Jazz · 06-05-2007, 09:59 AM

30 months is fair, especially considering that he'll likely only serve until Bush pardons him in the final days of the administration.

ubertuber · 06-05-2007, 10:00 AM

Exactly - when is 30 months not 30 months? You know when...

As least our long national nightmare will be over then.

Willravel · 06-05-2007, 10:02 AM

While he'll probably be pardoned, it would have been better to set a more strict sentence for the effect of better deterrence. He lied to protect people who are guilty of releasing the name of a NOC for political bullshit, and that cannot happen. It should be unthinkable to protect people who abuse power.

host · 06-05-2007, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

While he'll probably be pardoned, it would have been better to set a more strict sentence for the effect of better deterrence. He lied to protect people who are guilty of releasing the name of a NOC for political bullshit, and that cannot happen. It should be unthinkable to protect people who abuse power.

Shouldn't it be unthinkable for the president of the United States to pardon Libby, before he makes a full disclosure of who he was protecting when he lied to Plame CIA leak investigators, and to the Grand Jury, and why, as an criminal defense attorney and National Security advisor to both the president and the VP, he would impede such an investigation, especially during a time of war?

Polls support my contention that there is little popular support for pardoning Libby:
http://pollingreport.com/whprobe.htm

The president said we are "at war". Deliberately leaking classified information during war time, aggravated by the fact that the leak resulted in exposure of a covert CIA veteran and a CIA front company investigating WMD proliferation, seems to be treasonous. Knowing who did it and interfering with investigation of the leaking, requested by the CIA, seems to be conspiring with the treasonous leaker.

Why does a campaign by a hyperactive partisan republican noise machine attempting to convince us that what I described, is not "what happened", now that we know that Valerie Plame Wilson was covert and that Libby is guilty, change anything with regard to the facts in this controversy<h2>?</h2>

We are at war.
Libby covered for people in the executive branch who intentionally outed a covert CIA agent.

The CIA asked for a criminal investigation of the leak.
The president promised to cooperate in the investigation and fire anyone found to be leaking.

The white house never asked it's in house security chief to investigate the CIA accusation that the leaking of classified information resulted in the outing of a covert CIA agent.

Libby's prosecutor told the jury that a "cloud hangs over the VP". The VP and Libby, himself, did not testify during Libby's trial in any effort to clear up the matter or to defend Libby.

Wouldn't a presidential pardon of Libby, before congressional investigations of the matter are completed, and without Libby making full disclosure, hurt the "war effort", and make the president look like he is indifferent about what Libby did....to those working in the CIA, and to all of the rest of us unaffected by partisan republican spin?

Willravel · 06-05-2007, 10:40 AM

It's unthinkable, but inevitable. I don't think there's any way short of executing Libby before Bush can pardon him to block a pardon. This investigation, among many others, has been impeded since the get go. I'm obviously not saying it's right, Libby should pay for his crimes, but it's likely.

tecoyah · 06-05-2007, 10:44 AM

Likely....Libby will be out on good behavior, and sporting a sweet Tan before Bush leaves office anyway.

dc_dux · 06-05-2007, 02:03 PM

It will be interesting to see if Bush follows DoJ pardoning guidelines:

Quote:

The president has ...indicated he intended to go by the book in granting what few pardons he'd hand out — considering only requests that had first been reviewed by the Justice Department under a series of publicly available guidelines.

Those regulations, which are discussed on the Justice Department Web site, would seem to make a Libby pardon a nonstarter in George W. Bush's White House.

They "require a petitioner to wait a period of at least five years after conviction or release from confinement (whichever is later) before filing a pardon application," according to the Justice Web site.

Moreover, in weighing whether to recommend a pardon, U.S. attorneys are supposed to consider whether an applicant is remorseful. "The extent to which a petitioner has accepted responsibility for his or her criminal conduct and made restitution to ... victims are important considerations. A petitioner should be genuinely desirous of forgiveness rather than vindication," the Justice Web site states.

http://sentencing.typepad.com/senten...y_pardon_.html

DOJ pardoning (clemency) guidelines: http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/petitions.htm

mr_alleycat · 06-06-2007, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by host

The president promised to cooperate in the investigation and fire anyone found to be leaking.

Agreed, it's not like Dick forgot to wear his depends or something.

EaseUp · 06-10-2007, 11:20 AM

Since Libby committed no crime, other than obstruction of the investigation, the sentence seems a bit out of proportion.

If we're going to send people to jail for obstructing justice (which I support), a couple of heads of the FBI, Bill Clinton, and Hillary should be on death row.

View Poll Results: Is the Libby sentance fair?
30 months is enough	4	36.36%
30 months is too much	1	9.09%
30 months is too little	2	18.18%
Gimme a freakin break....he just got 3 months at Club Med	4	36.36%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

06-05-2007, 09:59 AM	#2 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	30 months is fair, especially considering that he'll likely only serve until Bush pardons him in the final days of the administration. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

06-05-2007, 10:00 AM	#3 (permalink)
ubertuber spudly Location: Ellay	Exactly - when is 30 months not 30 months? You know when... As least our long national nightmare will be over then. __________________ Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

06-05-2007, 10:02 AM	#4 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	While he'll probably be pardoned, it would have been better to set a more strict sentence for the effect of better deterrence. He lied to protect people who are guilty of releasing the name of a NOC for political bullshit, and that cannot happen. It should be unthinkable to protect people who abuse power.

06-05-2007, 10:40 AM	#6 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	It's unthinkable, but inevitable. I don't think there's any way short of executing Libby before Bush can pardon him to block a pardon. This investigation, among many others, has been impeded since the get go. I'm obviously not saying it's right, Libby should pay for his crimes, but it's likely.

06-05-2007, 10:44 AM	#7 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	Likely....Libby will be out on good behavior, and sporting a sweet Tan before Bush leaves office anyway.

06-10-2007, 11:20 AM	#10 (permalink)
EaseUp Upright Location: SoCal, beeyotch	Since Libby committed no crime, other than obstruction of the investigation, the sentence seems a bit out of proportion. If we're going to send people to jail for obstructing justice (which I support), a couple of heads of the FBI, Bill Clinton, and Hillary should be on death row.