The Ewwww... I mean the EU - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Schwan · 06-14-2003, 09:23 AM

Most of the people here are American and probably don't give a rat's ass about the EU, but I guess some of you have some knowledge on the topic. It's a big deal in Europe. People in my country - EU citizens-to-be in less then a year, are looking forward to this. Since the enlargement seems to be well on it's way, it would only seem fair to ask this question: will the EU actually gain anything from this, or will it become more chaotic?

The problem is that the EU has been growing very slowly throughout the last fifty years (member-wise, not economically), inviting one or two countries at a time very ten years or so. This time around, there's ten countries coming in at the same time. These countries are poorer then the current EU members - for example, an average Polish citizen earns 48% of what his European counterpart does. On the other hand, the western countries have an aging population, whilst most of the new member countries have a lot of young people entering the job market (the early 80's population surge).

So... enlargement: good or bad for the EU? More money or bankruptcy? Success or failure?

The_Dude · 06-14-2003, 09:58 AM

EU is definately great.

a bigger economy is a better economy, and the value of the euro is going to rise.

the negative side is the policy making institutions of the EU. i tried studying them and they're the most confusing thing on earth. they have so many organizations that do this and the policy goes back and forth and back and forth and back and forth...u get the idea.

it'll be good for the new nations, but a lil bad for the existing members for the short term.

in the long term, everyone is going to benifit.

Schwan · 06-14-2003, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Dude
EU is definately great.

it'll be good for the new nations, but a lil bad for the existing members for the short term.

All the new member countries have to pay the membership fees from day one, and they won't be getting all the priviliges just yet. Some of the countries will become equal members in three to five years, and through this time they will have to pay full membership fees all the same. The enlargement means big income for the "old" EU countries from day one, not to mention a large market to have your goods exported to.

Lebell · 06-14-2003, 10:31 AM

You're well on your way to a "United States of Europe", which I actually see as a good thing, just as I eventually see one nation in North America.

It will promote economic and social stability as well as (hopefully) spreading the benefits of the richer countries to the poorer ones.

I don't see this happening in my lifetime, but probably in the next 100 years or so.

manalone · 06-14-2003, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Schwan
All the new member countries have to pay the membership fees from day one, and they won't be getting all the priviliges just yet. Some of the countries will become equal members in three to five years, and through this time they will have to pay full membership fees all the same. The enlargement means big income for the "old" EU countries from day one, not to mention a large market to have your goods exported to.

What? That's bizarre. The membership fee is no great benefit to the current member countries. Paying for Poland's CAP (if it were in the state of other countries') would wipe out any contribution.

Ireland (where I am) is the best example. We have paid a contribution all the way through, but only became net contributors after 2001.

As for exports into your country, sure. But that's a good thing too.. since it means that consumers have more choice and Polish companies get to trade out on a fairer basis.

I have my reservations about some of the countries entering the EU, but in the end, they should all join, so they might as well do it now.

I just want to see the liberal humanist character of the EU continue on. In many ways, we provide an important perspective from rich and influential body, that is not the US.

This is only ever a good thing.

Liquor Dealer · 06-14-2003, 05:33 PM

I think there is power in numbers but there are also those who now have power who will have to give up some of their power. I wouldn't want to be allied with some of them - economically or any otherwise. I can see how N. America could unite into a single country with Canada, with the exception of Quebec. In spite of recent differences we also have many similarities. At one time I would not have thought we could ever assimilate our culture with that of Mexico but it happened in a very short time. Illegal immigration has brought about an alliance of people if not that of governments. I would assume that when there are more Mexicans in the US than remain in Mexico the alliance will have been completed - a census of both countries might show that has already occurred. When the time comes to settle on a single government, a single currency, those types of things it might get a little sticky.

The_Dude · 06-14-2003, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by manalone
What? That's bizarre. The membership fee is no great benefit to the current member countries. Paying for Poland's CAP (if it were in the state of other countries') would wipe out any contribution.

Ireland (where I am) is the best example. We have paid a contribution all the way through, but only became net contributors after 2001.

As for exports into your country, sure. But that's a good thing too.. since it means that consumers have more choice and Polish companies get to trade out on a fairer basis.

I have my reservations about some of the countries entering the EU, but in the end, they should all join, so they might as well do it now.

I just want to see the liberal humanist character of the EU continue on. In many ways, we provide an important perspective from rich and influential body, that is not the US.

This is only ever a good thing.

that was the main point of the EU creation.

to compete against the US economically.

rogue49 · 06-14-2003, 11:58 PM

you are just going through exactly what the U.S. went through as it grew & developed.

in the long run, you will be a more stable & richer region.

even though it might look like the U.S. is always one.
states rights are still incredibly powerful,
each one has it's own character, and unique laws.

much the same as the what the EU is becoming.

06-14-2003, 09:23 AM	#1 (permalink)
Schwan A boy and his dog Location: EU!	The Ewwww... I mean the EU Most of the people here are American and probably don't give a rat's ass about the EU, but I guess some of you have some knowledge on the topic. It's a big deal in Europe. People in my country - EU citizens-to-be in less then a year, are looking forward to this. Since the enlargement seems to be well on it's way, it would only seem fair to ask this question: will the EU actually gain anything from this, or will it become more chaotic? The problem is that the EU has been growing very slowly throughout the last fifty years (member-wise, not economically), inviting one or two countries at a time very ten years or so. This time around, there's ten countries coming in at the same time. These countries are poorer then the current EU members - for example, an average Polish citizen earns 48% of what his European counterpart does. On the other hand, the western countries have an aging population, whilst most of the new member countries have a lot of young people entering the job market (the early 80's population surge). So... enlargement: good or bad for the EU? More money or bankruptcy? Success or failure?

06-14-2003, 09:58 AM	#2 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	EU is definately great. a bigger economy is a better economy, and the value of the euro is going to rise. the negative side is the policy making institutions of the EU. i tried studying them and they're the most confusing thing on earth. they have so many organizations that do this and the policy goes back and forth and back and forth and back and forth...u get the idea. it'll be good for the new nations, but a lil bad for the existing members for the short term. in the long term, everyone is going to benifit. __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

06-14-2003, 10:31 AM	#4 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	You're well on your way to a "United States of Europe", which I actually see as a good thing, just as I eventually see one nation in North America. It will promote economic and social stability as well as (hopefully) spreading the benefits of the richer countries to the poorer ones. I don't see this happening in my lifetime, but probably in the next 100 years or so. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

06-14-2003, 05:33 PM	#6 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	I think there is power in numbers but there are also those who now have power who will have to give up some of their power. I wouldn't want to be allied with some of them - economically or any otherwise. I can see how N. America could unite into a single country with Canada, with the exception of Quebec. In spite of recent differences we also have many similarities. At one time I would not have thought we could ever assimilate our culture with that of Mexico but it happened in a very short time. Illegal immigration has brought about an alliance of people if not that of governments. I would assume that when there are more Mexicans in the US than remain in Mexico the alliance will have been completed - a census of both countries might show that has already occurred. When the time comes to settle on a single government, a single currency, those types of things it might get a little sticky. __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

06-14-2003, 11:58 PM	#8 (permalink)
rogue49 Loser	you are just going through exactly what the U.S. went through as it grew & developed. in the long run, you will be a more stable & richer region. even though it might look like the U.S. is always one. states rights are still incredibly powerful, each one has it's own character, and unique laws. much the same as the what the EU is becoming.