03-17-2007, 01:09 PM | #1 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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Democrats favor PORK, just like republicans.
Congress loads up $20 billion in pork
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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03-17-2007, 03:28 PM | #2 (permalink) |
Apocalypse Nerd
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Tweedledum and Tweedledee
Agreed to have a battle; For Tweedledum said Tweedledee Had spoiled his nice new rattle. Just then flew down a monstrous crow, As black as a tar-barrel; Which frightened both the heroes so, They quite forgot their quarrel. |
03-17-2007, 09:07 PM | #4 (permalink) |
Addict
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When it comes to pork, Robert Byrd makes even Ted Stevens look like a noob. Fiscal responsibility will continue to not be a priority until the electorate says otherwise. I'm not holding my breath.
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The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty |
03-17-2007, 10:52 PM | #5 (permalink) | ||||||||||||
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...or evaluated another way.....with other reporting, "the Examiner" article in the OP is a BS "hit piece" by partisan "hack", Charles Hurt....<a href="http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?p=2180067&highlight=chARLES+HURT#post2180067">last noted</a> as he performed as a partisan "hack", for washingtontimes . com .....
Can we all make a "pact" here....not to post articles by media outlets with owners who are Brett Bozell, Rev. Moon, or.....CNP - Council for National Policy Members? Unfortunately, this makes the following ineligible: washingtontimes.com - Rev. Moon newsmax.com - Brett Bozell mrc.org - Brett Bozell cnsnews - Brett Bozell townhall.com - CNP via Salem Communications <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=cnp+Edward+G.+Atsinger&btnG=Search">CEO Edward G Atsinger III</a> and <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=cnp+Stuart+W.+Epperson&btnG=Google+Search">chairman Stuart W. Epperson</a> SNR (Salem News Radio) - http://www.salem.cc/peopleKeyEmployees.htm <b>examiner.com</b> - see bottom of this post for details..... Does the list above, give you any inkling that, even in the age of "the internet", the flow of information that reaches you (not specifically directed at you, dksuddeth....) is originating from a remarkably narrow range of sources? Quote:
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....and, when the RNC needed to discredit Harry Reid in the senate, what "reporting" did they choose to "feature" on their website?: Quote:
The following were first published in the "Congressional Daily" described here as: Quote:
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I'm not saying that spending "add-ons" in supplemental appropriations "for the war" are a "good thing". I'm saying that the thread OP was rendered irrelevant because it was premised on "reporting" of a discredited partisan hack, Charles Hurt, to the point that the article is unreliable, making the point of the thread nearly meaningless. There have been numerous published protests against the Bush admin. "supplementals", "for the war", because the "war" was 3-1/2 years old at the beginning of the 2007 fiscal year, last Oct. 1. There was no need, at least two budgets ago, not to anticipate most war related expenditures and include them in the budget. That would not serve to "hide" the extent of the budget deficit. By placing the war expenditures and the add-ons that were "left out" in order to make the deficit look better, republicans were able to run on a "record" of measurably lower deficits. If all of these expenses were budgeted, the deficit would be near what the total treasury deficit ended up being last year....$574 billion. The figure was just $18 billion in fiscal year 2000. <b>I put the time and effort into replying to threads like this....threads "premised" with "news" articles that are not "news". I'm going to continue to point out that some of us get our "news" from "traditional" outlets....NY Times, Washington Post, LA Times, Chicago Tribune, BBC, ABC, NBC, CBS, NPR, PBS.....and none of them feature reporters who reliably use the "democrat party" or "democrat leader", "give away"....that their reporter is a partisan hack....and none of them are financed by Rev. Moon, or by a CNP member, as in the case of the owner of "the Examiner", new employer of Charles Hurt....and, you would think.....that since this is not the first time, or the second, that I have "pulled the pants down" of an "alternative news" source....of an OP....that this "shit" would stop.....but it doesn't. </b> The owner of "the Examiner", and examiner.com <a href="http://mediamatters.org/items/200502030002?offset=20&show=1">Philip F. Anschutz</a>: Quote:
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03-17-2007, 11:27 PM | #6 (permalink) |
Apocalypse Nerd
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You lost me somewhere host. Are you objecting to the "facts" presented or just who is presenting it? The peanut storage provision is well documented.
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ne...22&btnG=Search |
03-18-2007, 12:05 AM | #7 (permalink) | |
Banned
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Hey Astrocloud.....
In addition to my points about the subversion of the free press by religiously driven, partisan billionaires....and by William F. Buckely Jr.'s nephew, Brett Bozell, I thought that I provided a non-partisan explanation of what actually is taking place with regard to the supplemental war funding bill. The Congressional Daily reporting, titled, "* Bill to boost war spending has something for everyone (03/09/07)" http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0307/031307cdam1.htm .....seems to explain the reasons for most of the non-military "add ons", and I provided other support for my point that this is about the way congress does business, not "democrats in congress", as Charles Hurt painted it. Republicans also seem to acknowledge that many cuts or omissions in their pre-midterm election budget proposals were legitimate expenditures, but delayed for political reasons....they had to appear to voters to be "reigning in" spending. If you disagree with any of the spending "add-ons", as explained in the piece that I just linked to, let's discuss the specifics. If we can afford to waste hundreds of billions in Iraq, why wait until next october to fund these add-ons, when the government can borrow more money now, to do them? We have added $3 trillion to the total federal treasury debt, since Jan. 2001. It was $5.7 trillion then, this year, it will reach $9 trillion. IMO, it's already hopeless....it won't be reversed, and that was the intent....just ask <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/12/AR2006101200889.html">Grover Norquist</a>....to bankrupt the federal treasury. If republican Jack King, for example, can't get the "add-on" for children's health insurance in GA, this will happen: Quote:
All spending should be budgeted in the federal budget, and the "lame duck" congress, after the november election, didn't bother to draft or pass a "real" 2007 to 2008 budget, so things are reduced to this.... Charles Hurt was throwing the same "Support the Troops" rant at us,....give them the money....so they can "fight the GWOT"....it is "un" patriotic to add non-military items to the spending bill....blah....blah....blah.... Last edited by host; 03-18-2007 at 12:07 AM.. |
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03-18-2007, 05:38 AM | #8 (permalink) |
Asshole
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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Personally, I feel that the elimination of all forms of the word "you" would make the Politics forum in general a much better place. However, I don't see how we can catagorically deny the validity of one of the most widely read newspapers in the country - the Washington Post.
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo |
03-18-2007, 06:57 AM | #9 (permalink) |
Addict
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two characters
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The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty Last edited by politicophile; 02-08-2008 at 09:43 PM.. |
03-18-2007, 08:24 AM | #10 (permalink) |
Apocalypse Nerd
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Okay guys, there is something that I don't think people are getting. Pork Barrel spending is usually tacked onto a larger spending bill in order to get it passed through congress. It's the ultimate in political manipulation because it's saying "If you want me to vote for your (unpopular) bill then do this for me and my constituents."
The case with Pork Spending in the most recent Republican majority congress was a little different. There it was a bribe fest and a free for all. I can back this up with plenty of examples, so if you must go down that road we will. So in my view both parties (Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum) are responsible for runaway spending. Sure, some tacked on legislation like a Peanut Storage provision (or a Health Care initiative) might benefit somebody... but the point is that the war budget is getting passed. This should make some people happy (and some others rather sad). |
03-18-2007, 08:42 AM | #11 (permalink) |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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War has always been a way for government to send pork monies out, this is nothing new.
Our economy is still built off defense and war (although that is shrinking to almost nothing). WW2, WW1, Korea, Vietnam.... there was a reason the economies boomed during those wars = Government sent big ass money everywhere. To be quite honest, while I never like the idea of piggy backing money, but we need may need those farm subsidy emergency money.... I know the Citrus crops are taking serious hits. And look at it this way..... they ship our tax money there or we pay more for food. I'd rather see the tax money go there someone who needs the food mnay not be able to buy it if we didn't buoy the price. Then again, looking at it from the money aspect..... this war sucks because it really isn't helping the economy........ what a fucked up world when you can't even count on a war helping your economy....... oh wait, that's what happens when all the jobs and manufacturing goes overseas, nations that may be hostile and not like you make the money. And if we had those factories and had people working at them making decent wages........ we would have more tax revenue, a truly booming economy and no one would say anything about any of this.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
03-18-2007, 12:43 PM | #12 (permalink) | |||||||
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All documentation that I have posted in the past on this forum about CNP, Council for National Policy, is accompanied by references to the "secrecy" of the CNP and it's members..... I'm just trying to provide examples of the "narrow casting" that passes, and is overwhelmingly accepted....as "conservative news". I think that it explains why "each side" appears to live in "it's own world", and how the "liberal media" is just an endlessly repeated mantra, to cover the the growing body of evidence that the "real" news media, just seems "liberal" compared to the BS that is passed of as "news" by Rev. Moon and by the financial influence of less than 3 dozen mega rich "christianized" conservative zealots, cloaked alarmingly, in a veil of secrecy. The other "arm" of this "noise machine" is run by Brett Bozell, and he is also sponsored and financed by the same "money". This "money" also finances what is passed off as conservative "thought", and "research" at "think tanks", such as "Heritage", Hoover, and <a href="http://www.aei.org/">AEI</a>....all financed by the same, wealthy, narrow interests, and dressed up to look like they are some kind of "grass roots" based, conservative academia. Who the "eff" even knows what this "stuff" implies: Quote:
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and I was too impatient to wait for it to load: http://www.freecongress.org/aboutfcf.aspx Quote:
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03-18-2007, 02:17 PM | #14 (permalink) | ||||||
Banned
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To this day...the National Review magazine contains scant corporate advertising, has never turned a profit, and depends on "donations" for it's coninued publication. The post WWII conservative "moement" in the US, seems to have been funded by the CIA: Quote:
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Here is a description of the American Conservative Magazine's most prominent columnist: Quote:
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03-18-2007, 04:04 PM | #15 (permalink) |
Location: Washington DC
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Putting aside the pork issue for a sec (which most would agree is bi-partisan in its habitual practice, nearly as old as Congress itself, but hardly responsible for "the destruction of America"), this bill is a long way from passage.
And not because of the pork, but because it includes the Pelosi/Murtha language calling for a "withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq by August 2008 at the latest" (and sets requirements for unit readiness and lengths of deployments that may be waived by Bush under certain circumstances). What strikes me as interesting is how little press attention this provision received as opposed to the pork. In any case, the bill faces its next hurdle on the House floor, where it is likely to be opposed by the more anti-war Dems who believe the language funding the war for another year+ is not strong enough and the Repubs who call it "a slow bleeding" strategy. Its not clear at all the Pelosi has the votes to pass the bill with her language. (More on the challenge Pelosi faces in the House to get this passed - link) And, then, comes the Senate, where the Repubs have already threatened a fillibuster if the bill includes any language counter to the Bush "surge" strategy. Interesting weeks ahead in Congress. We shall see how Bush will ultimately get the funding he wants (along with some pork) ...but with what strings attached on the ongoing fiasco in Iraq? If it takes a little pork to get a bill through both houses of Congress and on to Bush's desk that puts restrictions on the failing "stay the course and surge" war strategy.....it will have my support!
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 03-18-2007 at 04:38 PM.. |
03-20-2007, 07:32 AM | #16 (permalink) |
Easy Rider
Location: Moscow on the Ohio
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I have always thought that adding pork to a major spending bill in order to secure its passage was a bad idea and a lot like bribery.
My wife says "you know we need to add health care insurance to our budget". I reply "sure I'll agree to that but only if we also add an HDTV and a new motorcycle. We can always borrow the money" I agree with others who think this is one of the things wrong with our government's budget control. The merits of the major bill seems to get lost in the bribes. |
03-26-2007, 06:37 AM | #17 (permalink) | |
Huggles, sir?
Location: Seattle
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seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames |
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03-26-2007, 07:04 AM | #18 (permalink) |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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Pork barrel politics is a political practice, not an ideological one...except for peripherally perhaps, and moreso depending on the pork being barrelled. And I really don't understand an attempt to bring it up as some kind of enlightening new fact.
Look, your guys do it, too...so see, you have no philosophical basis with which to not vote conservative. Is this the reasoning? I am on the left because of a profound philosophical difference on humanist issues from most people on the right. Not because I'm under the impression that republicans sponsor pork barrel politics and democrats do not. In fact, the vast array of commonly held, and doubtful, political practices in US politics among BOTH parties are one of the reasons I consider myself to be more of a liberal and a leftist than a "democrat." So democrats sponsor pork barrel politics...really, yeah well, that's real interesting. Let me just finish up this round of Tetris and I'll get right on giving that the kind of profound consideration it deserves.
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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
03-26-2007, 08:37 AM | #19 (permalink) | |
Easy Rider
Location: Moscow on the Ohio
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Sure, I'll vote for your "bridge to nowhere" bill if you'll add my "train to nowhere". In order to get her vote we'll probably have to add the "highway to nowhere" as well. And so it goes. |
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democrats, favor, pork, republicans |
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