Who is worse; George Bush or Hugo Chavez?
 

I say Chavez. Venezuela is going into the same direction as Cuba. Not only that, but he always tells off other presidents when he is the one that needs to work for his people.

Well, this is in the general section, so I'm going to say Bush. Hugo has that Latin thing going for him. Pure hotness.

Worse to whom? Americans?

Tilted Politics is that way ======>

It depends on who you ask. If you ask most of the non-US world who is worse, they'd say Bush. Of course, most Americans would probably agree with them...

I doubt that most Americans would say that Bush is worse than Chavez. I highly doubt it.

Hell, I suspect most Americans don't know even know who Hugo Chavez is, much less know anything about him.

yep, didnt have a clue.. had to look it up

and since this isnt politics, bush. i dont know anything about hugo, so he can't be worse than the person I do know about.

hmmm,
Hugo: Practically a dictatorship now, may be screwing up his own country, the poor still love him last I heard,

Bush: Still a democracy, screwing up other countries, ten's of thousands dead, approval rating in the thirties.

Ehhh, I'm leaning towards bush on this one.

I think they are both pretty evil.

But Hugo is a better zinger

Moved thread to Tilted Politics

Texranger17 - I think that you need define your terms a little better. Chavez is pretty popular in Venezuela which leads me to believe that he's doing something right on his own domestic stage. He's certainly stepped to the forefront of Third World Leaders.

Why do you think he's turning his country into another Cuba? Why is that necessarily bad for the US?

I'm not sure on the evil issue, but Hugo is definitely more literate than Bush, since he has mastered the art of metaphor, while bush is still working on a speech that would be acceptable for a child to pass the 5th grade according to the standards put forth in no child left behind.

Few men wont be corrupted, given enough power. While Bush does seem to be a megalomaniac bent on world domination, I'm sure Chavez would be too, given the opportunity. Chavez does seem to have a greater intellectual capacity, given the Bush standard of "Run Spot Run, See Spot Run" as a war cry. Sorry for the sarcasm, I cant stand Bush so he gets my vote for the Worst Person in the World!

I don't care for Chavez's political views, but his put-downs are beautiful.

Bush = "King of Vacations." Hilarious!

i dont understand what this thread is about.
i dont understand what we are being asked.

I remember a piece of Libertarian alternative-history fiction in which Fidel Castro became a professional baseball player. I can never hear/read one of Hugo's speeches without thinking that, in such a "best of all possible" world, Chavez would have been a -brilliant- screenwriter or stand-up comedian. I loathe his politics, but damn does that man ever have a flair for rhetoric.

I sympathize with Chavez, to some remote extent, since he is trying to fix a Latin American country (most of which are always in the grips of dictators/depressions/economics shit-holes). A lot of damage has been done by colonization, and because of that, there are very wide gaps between the rich and poor (though not a deep at the US, but the poor are much poorer). To help the situation, Chavez tilts a little towards communism, taking land from the high and middle class people (of which a considerable number took the land from the natives anyways) and gives it to the poor, which are usually native. This is what Castro did, and well, we all know how that turned out, but there's no rule that says it has to end up the same way, since a lot of shit was fanned Cuba's way by the US, for example the embargo which continues today, leading to enormous economic lose. You can't blame Chavez for trying, and for trying to represent the poor of his country.

Bush, on the other hand, seems to have a personal vendetta against the Constitution and civil rights, as well as a more-than-obvious lack of respect and understanding of foreign, sovereign states.

And I'll bet my life savings, down to the last dollar, that Chavez could beat Bush in a debate about anything, even if he were forced to speak English (which he actually can...Does Bush speak a second language?).

I'll bet he could even trounce Bush in basketball and at playing the guitar, for what it's worth.

We'll have to see how the socializing/nationalizing will effect Venezuela's economy and society, and if Chavez can stop himself from abusing the authority he's giving himself in the 18 month rule. The ability to rewrite organic law is scary, and I don't know if I trust anyone with that power. The thing is if this hurts Chevron Exxon and BP, it can't be all bad.

I think everyone knows how I feel about Bush, so I'd say that Bush is worse and has done a lot more harm to the planet than Chavez ever could.

Wow, nice to see some of you actually take the time to read about latin american politics instead of eating up all the bullshit the U.S. government tries to feed the world.

Before I go into this here post let me tell you, I live in Venezuela. I was born here and I love this awesome piece of land. I'm also technically part of the opposition to Chavez's government. As a law school student I don't think he should have been a legal candidate considering he attempted a military coup a few decades ago. He was given full pardon (the actual legal figure is better than a pardon since it erases your criminal record entirely) and as such he was allowed to run as a candidate. I consider that a flaw in the previous constitution and this one. He's also lacking as a diplomat but thats neither here nor there at this point since he mainly attacks the U.S., which in my opinion and for a wide range of reasons deserve to be opposed in a political standpoint. That said, let me clarify a few misconceptions about Chavez:

First of all, he's not "taking land" from anyone. That is a complete lie. Latin America has a long standing problem with latifundia (look it up in wikipedia). He's merely enforcing the laws created to solve this problem of several families having ridiculously vast amounts of idle territory in their property, a heritage of previous dictatorships and colonial rule.

Second, Venezuela is FAR from being Cuba. Civil liberties are upheld here, there is free trade and capitalism. Chavez merely leans to the socialist side in order to solve immediate social problems. His revolution is a peaceful and legal one, unlike Fidel's. Not to mention that it is far more elaborate and planned out. He is loved by the people and there is no denying that fact. If thats not a testament to a good job so far as a leader, I don't know what is.

Now lets look a the international stage. Chavez has made great relations with many countries during his time in office. The only government he doesn't get along with is the U.S. And with good reason. What would you do if the world's leading superpower arbitrarily deemed you a menace to the world? What would you do if said government repeatedly lied about your actions and your rights as a legitimate government? For all of Chavez's comments against the U.S., they pale in comparison to the damage the Bush administration's defamation campaign against my country has caused. Case in point, Bush claims Venezuela to be a destabilizing force in the south when all the Chavez administration has done is help out in the region. Chavez donates large portions of our oil wealth to help in other countries, he's promoting helpful socialist programmes in the region and he's trying to unify the latin american culture much like it was done in the european union. Of course, having a second powerful, unified, continental front to compete against in the world could be considered destabilizing to U.S. hegemony. Then so be it, I say.

Of course, he's not a perfect president either. The whole matter with his legislative powers is troublesome (specially to someone studying law), but keep in mind that his party already has absolute majority in the National Assembly (congress and whatnot), so this only expedites the inevitable Chavist legislation. He has one aim with the whole thing and there is no confusion about it. He wants to extend the legal opportunity of reelection and the presidential term. There has never been any doubt about this and he's never lead anyone to think otherwise. From his first year in office one of his slogans has been "to 2021", which is his clearly stated intended date of retiring from presidential power.

What can I say? The people support him in this and he's never lied to them. I'm personally against it but thats democracy at its finest for you. He's done a decent job so far (commendable in comparison to some of our previous presidents, in fact). One can only hope he'll keep his revolution in the right track...


PS: To get back to the main topic though. I clearly think Bush is far worse.

CptAJ, thanks a lot for that great reply. I hadn't heard from someone actually living in Venezuela. You see, all I used to have to go with was all the bullshit the US news stations say about Chavez ("He called our president the devil! He's a menace!) and the quasi-bullshit my Cuban family has to say about him (I'm Cuban). I say that because Cubans see or hear of Chavez reappropriating land and consider him to be like Castro, since that's one of the very first things he did when he seized control. So Cubans naturally fear Chavez, to some extent, and some see him as nothing more than a regular ol' communist, which obviously isn't the case.

And...um...yeah...Bush is an inarticulate boob.

About the closed tv station
One thing is freedom of speech, I like that, another thing is spreading lies and helping a coup.

THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED

Socialism and communism are massive threats to both the countries they exist in and the world at large. Chavez hand down is the bigger threat.

Bush is worse. He's a twat on the grandest scale. WMD in Iraq? Still searching. Building a cruise missile base in Poland will ensure world peace? Yeah, and my dick is 24" long (60cm for you Europeans). Israel are a poor oppressed nation and need all the international help they can get? Biggest perpetrators of genocide in the history of man (read your bible - it's all in there).

The sooner someone does a JFK on him, the safer the world will be. Oh, and Putin too. He needs a slap as well, the Ruski fuckbreath.

I voted for Alice Cooper.