Willravel

The first to lose the right to vote are usually some minority (homosexuals, foriegn born people, members of a political party, criminals, etc.), and the poor are the majority.

Ustwo

Only point of purchase taxes. Once you take out non-taxable income, and deductions you won't be paying much if any federal tax at the poverty line.

I don't think we should, I said if you are paying no taxes, I want the poor to vote.

Who said anything about overtaxing?

If everyone viewed a tax increase as taking money from them, then yes. Why would I care if you tax the rich more if I'm poor? Why would I care if you tax the middle class more if I'm poor?

It would prevent the US from becoming a socialst state intent on the foolish goal of wealth redistrobution. It would keep the economy strong. It would eliminate a lot of useless politicians buying votes with public funds.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Seaver

How did this turn into this?

The point was made that the Bush tax cuts were for the rich. The facts were everyone had a % cut, so those who paid more would pay only fractionally less.

I really want to see this. While those who pay less taxes would obviously get less for their % back, I dont see how it can be 1.5x when both groups get the same fraction back.

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"Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas

Ch'i

First of all, Let me ask you something j8ear. Do you see anywhere in this debate, anything even remotely bringing that up, and defending it? Do you see any link between that statement and the arguments in this thread? If you'd like to talk about that then make another thread; if your just going to throw it in as some benine argument to show that my points are in some way based on that statement, then you can pm me and spare the rest of these people.
I agree with Seaver, and roachboy.
Have some of you even been reading the other posts? The point was made a looonnnggg time ago, get over it.

j8ear

I saw ~YOU~ bring it up and notice now in your only attempt at defending it that you have resorted to this:

I'm curious if you'll defend this comment of yours....or maybe you believe that this effectively resolves the discussion and by extention puts you in the winners circle?

I was embarrassed on your behalf when you first implied that "even wealth distribution," was not only something that governments ~should do~ but that, instead of the cute little string of unspaced words surrounded by the dreaded and evil quotation marks, wealth distribution was the only alternative you were able to muster.

Thanks for the stimulating discussion. Perhaps in the future you will effectively defend your postings. I also appreciate the kind suggestions about where and how I might post within a thread, but reject those suggestions as both inappropriate and without merit.

Any thoughts on how the leftist meme of "TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH" is reconciled against the poignant GAO statistics showing a reduced tax burden across the income spectrum?

-bear

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It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.

Ch'i

.............Reserved...........

Willravel

I defended his posts and you didn't respond at all. Luckly you were able to bait Ch'i and then get him to lose his temper. Is that really how to behave on TFP? I mean are we really to belive that baiting people into losing their temper is how to carry out a functional, relevant, and fruitful discussion?

I'm starting to wonder if some people aren't in politics simply to blow off steam by making snide, one lined responses to thoughtful posts simply to see if they can get a rise out of people. It seems to be happening more and more recently, and it is not only ruining Politics, but it is actually going to destroy the place that so many of us derive substance from. This is the only place for a lot of us to have relevant political discussion. I'm surrounded by sheep, myself. I don't know of anyone wou would disagree with me about politics that I know.

Ch'i

I don't defend it at all, and I apologize for saying that.
I hope you noticed that I said a little more than that. And if you still think that this has any bearing on the current discussion you have my condolences.
Just because society has been setup the way it has doesn't mean alternatives are inconcievable. You might remember a similar question earlier...
No classes, equal distribution, equal opportunity, and no money. Credit & currency should not exist. In its place have a system of trade. The goal, not to get rich, but to advance society, and learn; the concentration on general betterment rather than personal glory. I seriously don't want to thread-jack anymore so I'll make a new thread for this. There we can debate, which I look foward to (not sarcasm, sincerity).
The title "Tax Cuts for the Rich" was not entirely inapproriate seeing as how that was the subject of the article.
I have lost track of the time, I'll finish my post in an hour.

j8ear

I just went back through everything you offered in this thread and find zero defense of the notion that governments should be evenly distributing wealth...nor do I find one of your sentences addressed to me.

Zero....

I'm going to go re-re-read and see if I missed something. I will retract and respond as appropriate.

Frankly, I'm terribly sorry that you are surrounded by sheep and unable to find disagreement with your political view points, and that this is your sole place for engaging discourse. That speaks volumes about your environment.

How you are able to declare the temper bearer as a victim and me as an instigator is beyond me. The notion that my disagreement with or disgust for someone's opinions is bullying and warrants the behaviour demonstrated is ludicrous. Please don't bother to "defend" this assertion. I am just not interested.

Did you really just tell me that someone else's inappropriate behaviour is MY FAULT?

Care to try and answer the challenge I've posed now several times?

Concerning the TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH meme and the GAO stats?

-bear

__________________
It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.

flstf

I think the government is too big and taxes are too high. I also think that many middle class voters think that Democrats will tax them more than Republicans.

In regards to the side discussion on taxes.
I don't think we can just evaluate income taxes since income tax cuts are only given directly to people who pay income taxes. Tax cuts in general probably benefit all of us indirectly.

I believe that the poor and middle class pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than the wealthy because of the embedded taxes included in everything we buy. I have seen estimates that anywhere from 40% to 90% of the amount of most goods and services is included in the final price we pay because of these hidden embedded taxes. Since the poor and middle class spend most of their income on goods and services then that is their real tax rate.

I think this guy's estimate is too high, but there is no doubt that hidden embedded taxes are a large percentage of the cost of goods and services.

j8ear

Apology accepted.

I did notice.

Regardless, I still believe what you wrote to be the single scariest thing I have ever read on this forum. That was not hyperbole. Even redistribution of wealth. A social and econimic experiement demonstrably and repeatedly failed. It would concern me a great deal when that is included in a list of many alternatives, but it was offered as the exclusive alternative on your list.

I've been around here for a long time, and rarely post in this forum anymore, except when very serious matters surface. I find this matter serious.

I hope you take this for what it's worth. It s my opinion and perspective only.

I will not dwell or comment on it further.

-bear

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It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.

Willravel

Me neither.

Ch'i

Its not the only alternative on my list, just one of many. If I made it seem like it was, it was a mistake. Never the less, thank you.

Deltona Couple

Before I actually make a comment on this statement...Are you being sarcastic?

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"It is not that I have failed, but that I have found 10,000 ways that it DOESN'T work!" --Thomas Edison

Ustwo

I'll answer for him, yes, yes he is

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

SteelyLoins

You post your income more than anyone I've seen in this forum. You're welcome to redistribute your own funds in any way you see fit, but if the rest of us would like to keep more of what we earn, why is it up to you to demand that we give it to the people of your choice?

filtherton

Speak for yourself. I'm sure that there are plenty of people who actually believe in taxes here.