3leggedfrog

fake patriotism

I hate the masses. I hate how we suddenly become patriotic in the last few years. don't get me wrong I am not against patriotism but I am against following the masses in showing patriotism. I really hate people who say they are patriotic but do nothing to prove it. and I do not mean putting a flag on your fount porch. I mean real patriotism. no I am not talking about joining the military or the national guard. you do not have too to be patriotic. don't tell me you love your country and yet do nothing to help it.

don't you dare tell me your patriotic because you sent some candy to the military during the war. your not. that is a patriotic act but only a minor one time act. even if you donate many times that still not enough. you have to ask your self and be honest why are you doing this act. if you are truly honest then most of you will say "because everyone else is doing it". would you still send food and candy if the general opinion about the war is like what the opinion was during the Vietnam war. an honest answer is no. the true patriot act would still send even if he or she hated the war.

they are still our people dammit. most of the military did not sign up to kill and die. most did not know that being in the military means indentured servitude (a slave). I know that sounds stupid but its true. would you sign up if someone told you that most of your right you were born will be taken away and that you have a very good chance that you are going to die violently and painfully. Oh and your pay is sh!t. No I didn’t think so. Most of them just want a better life than what they had before. they are just like you but unlike you they may die so that you can go on watching your friggen reality TV shows on MTV and bitch about the Dixie Chicks.

I hate the bumper sticker remember NYFD or NYPD. what about the people in the friggen planes who died. what about the people in the friggen pentagon who died. yes we have TV specials on the pentagon but ask a average person what 9/11 was about they will go on and on about New York and nothing about DC. the pentagon is our symbol of our friggen military, people. the one who you are giving 10 to 15 % discounts to. Half of the friggen building was blown up. what about the people who died in the buildings when the planes exploded. all the buildings in New York and DC. what about the friggen USS Cole that was bombed killing Navy personnel. no one cries for them except the military and there families. so don't you dare tell me you are patriotic because you sent some deodorant to a faceless military person.

I hate people who were anti patriotic before 9/11 but after 9/11 they were the first to start waving the flag. wtf. I hate the people who have American flag bumper sticker on their cars. these people do nothing but put them there and sit back and congratulate themselves on how patriotic they are. I hate that people think "that is all there is to being patriotic". its not. how you show patriotism is by doing something for your country. vote dammit. even if only local elections. at least there your vote counts. we all hate jury duty but come on that patriotic. if your too lazy to do these things then help out your fellow man. help the children or the elderly who some are true patriots in that they fought for your ass. even the ones who did not fight they still deserve your help. help the sick. understand and help the poor but don’t let them leach off you. doing your taxes does not count as a patriotic act. you are forced by law to do that. f@ck, do something no one is forcing you to do. help out your friggen country and its citizens.

Before you think I am pro government let me set you straight. I hate how we are responsible for the current middle east problems. I hate the fact that we have been causing the middle east problems for decades because we do not want competition. if the Middle East ever united they would rival the united states for power and wealth. we control the worlds food they control the worlds energy. who would win i wonder? I hate the fact that our president has change so much since coming into office. for an example he was against a police state policy as a governor yet as a president he is all for it. WTF

I hate the patriot act. I hate the loss of our personal friggen freedoms. why do we need home front protection. That is what the FBI, CIA and civil authorities are for. so they screwed up badly. find out how and why they did and fix it. don’t waste all that tax money telling me our threat condition is orange and will be forever. The only good thing that has come out of it is finally good security personel at the airports, well at least they do not looking like they are falling asleep . Yea for civil testing.

I hated the war with Iraq. I do not hate the people who are serving there I just hate the government decision to wage war. I served not too long ago and have good friends who are coming back now. they are all ok, thank who or whatever, but they all have stories about how someone they knew got hurt or the horrors they witnessed. I hate that.

don't you dare be swayed into following the crowd by the friggen media. they say they are not biased. ha, right, they are biased in extream. just look at the reporters who tried to show how heroic they were by being close to the battle fount. they wanted to be the news not report it. how bias can you get. bahhh. they follow public opinion and amplifiy it based on ratings. just look at what they were saying before the war. they were so anti war one would think pres bush was the antichrist. and how they change there opinion when we started to win the war. now they are so for the war that my teeth hurt. I hate how they were praising some of our artist for their anti-war statements before the war yet condemning them now for their opinions. wtf. I really hate how the news changes on public opinion. hey its ratings not the news. sorry I forgot.

being patriotic means loving the country even if you hate the current government. it means having an opinion of your own and not one that the masses tell you to have. it means doing something that is not forced on you by anyone to better your country. even if its to protest something you truly think is wrong. even if you do not have an opinion on the government, volunteer. think, do something dammit. don't let others do the thinking for you no matter how lazy you are or how caught up in your everyday life. THINK. BE PATRIOTIC. DO SOMETHING!!!!!!

__________________
"enjoy life to the brim but do not spill it" quoted off my tatoo

"Iam myself every day."

KillerYoda

Too bad most people don't realize this like you, me, and many other people on TFP do. We live in a nation of predominately moronic sheep who only care about their country when something bad happens and it suddenly becomes popular to be in the "flag-waving club." 1/4 of the number of people who voted in the American Idol television event voted in the last presidential election. It scares me to know I live in a country where Kelly Clarkson could probably take the presidency. Thankfully, there are still people out there who actually care about what's going on, like you obviously do.

__________________
"So you're Chekov, huh? Well, this here's McCoy. Find a Spock, we got us an away team."

seretogis

Me too, but from what my therapist has told me, that can be a root for a lot of social problems.

Despising something because "the masses" do so is also not generally a good idea by itself. As for why people become patriotic in supposed times of turmoil, it is a natural and common thing to do so. People generally want to believe that they are in the right in every situation, and will justify it by any means.

At least in Minnesota, there have been several "support our troops" rallies which were composed of just as many anti-war as pro-war people, all who had relatives or friends in the service. Are they not really patriotic because they have family in the service?

Actually, yes, they did sign up for it. I'm not sure how you can try to justify this.

It's true that it sounds stupid.

Just because you think this, does not make it so. As for "a very good chance that you are goign to die violently and painfully", 200 deaths out of several thousand troops is not "a very good chance".

NYFD/NYPD who died in 9/11 did so while saving lives. That makes them heroes and worthy of a bumper-sticker. The passengers of the PA flight that was downed are also viewed as heroes.

That's an unhealthy amount of hate.

Out of this list of wonderful things, which do you do on a regular basis?

Uhhh, yeah. We waged war with Iraq because we are afraid of them coming together and competing with us...

You're right, but don't ever let the Gestapo hear you say that.

Well shit, I ran out of time to respond to the rest. I'll do so later. In general, I suggest toning down teh hate. Disagreeing with something is fine, but all that hate has unhealthy side-effects, I know first-hand. People are generally alright as long as their interests have been met. It's not something to be "hated", just understood and dealt with.

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seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

Macheath

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" - Samuel Johnson

People who reference this quote often think that Johnson was deriding patriotism altogether. In truth, he thought that patriotism purely as a love for one's country was indeed a good thing.

The quote was actually about the very thing you discuss, the scoundrels who resort to FAKE patriotism for the good of their own faction or party, self-interest and all kinds of other juicy ulterior motives.

My own view is that the scoundrels are the ones who claim that patriotism is whatever THEIR ideology says it is - that anyone who disagrees with them is a traitor. Throw it into the whole marketing package so that you're not a patriot unless you bought into Ronald Reagan as the Marlboro Man in 1980, or wet your pants over Dubya's top gun aircraft carrier landing.

The_Dude

i agree w/ you 3leggedfrog. let's see how long this "patriotism" is going to last. how long before people take off their bumper stickers and replace them w/ ones from the local radio station.

it's starting to fade away already.

__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

rogue49

Wait, wait.
Don't let it be over yet.
I didn't even get the chance to wrap my flag around me.
It just got here from the catalog.

Sparhawk

Loving your country to me means trying to think of the other 270 million of us before myself. Unfortunately, I think I'm in a small minority, among many who are simply looking out for number one.

__________________
"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

3leggedfrog

This is just a reaction to fear and not a patriotic act at all. its like waking someone up to a violent noise and telling them it was a gun. I hate when people react to fear by jumping on the "band wagon of patriotsim". i really hate it when someone who told me they thought that the war was not justified before we started to win now changes his or her mind and say "well we had to stop him. even if he didn't have weapons of mass destruction. he was another hitler" what about your previous opinion? did you change you mind just because we won? ok that real patriotic.


yes and no. yes if before 9/11 and the war they were just as patriotic as they are now. i wonder how many vets went to that rally? modern hippies are patriotic too. they are expressing there opinion. hippies are not patriotic when they spit on troops or join because they like what they are wearing. a true hippie who loves peace would never make violence on anyone even the people who they are currently angry at.
no if they were goining for fear of their relatives. fear makes one extreamly patriotic doesnt it. ha they are not worried about country they are worried about there loved ones. don't get me wrong if i had a loved on ei too would be afraid. but you have to ask them why are they at those rallies. are they trying to make themselves feel better by being around thoses who have loved ones in danger or do they have an opinion on the war. man i hope that opinion was not fostered by the masses.

ok besides all of the marines and a few die hard army people no they didn't. the people who join the navy, army, or air force are not in the service to kill people. they have no clue about what they are getting into. this i know from personal experence. in the army people join because they get to shot guns and blow stuff up. ask any non diehard service men or woman what the most desired duty station is and they will give you some base or fort in the US. oh they might say spain or germery or japan but ask they were they are going next. betcha it probility some place in the us. its the same in the navy or air force. (exept for the special forces units. they're crazy.)




yes but they are going to be running towards the bullets. there is no skill only luck and a good hiding place in avoiding getting hit. there is a very good chance that one of them could die. you say 200 out of thousands like its nothing. THAtS 200 people your talking about. thoses thosands of people that you are talking are mostly the huge supply groups of reservists that are not in the action and behind front lines.


yes they are heros. but following your logic about the military they were doing their job. what about the people who didn't get a chance to be heros and died it the buildings. Also what about the pentagon? you haven't said anything about that. why is that?

that hate is built on frustration. dont tell me your patriotic by putting flags up on your frount pourch and bumper stickers on your car. do some thing that does not benifit you but does benifit the country. putting flags out benifits you in the eyes of your neighbors. it does little to benifit the country as a whole.

I take part in meals on wheeles. when i lived in Illinois i was a part of operation white hat. i use to go to the children hospital to help cheer up the kids who were going through cancer treatments. when i lived in Jacksonville i was a volinteer EMT. I go to jury duty. the only thing i am guilty is that i didn't vote for the president. to me what does my vote matter when the electroial college can vote not matter what popular opinion is. i wrote this opinionated thread.


the original gulf war was to make sure that iraq didnt take over a huge chunk of the middle east there by controlling a major part of the oil production and sale. this war was about testerione. hes saying bad things against us. lets put him in his place. oh and who put him in power in iraq by the way. why? so russia didn't get another contry that porduced oil. why didn't we help iran when they were being invaded by iraq before the gulf war in the late 80's. who gave iraq a lot of those weapons they used against us in the first gulf war?

ok so you say that appeasing the masses is ok. not voiceing your opinion is ok. just go along with the flow and thats ok. bitching about my loss of privacy is not ok because we want to appease the masses. i know big brother is not out ot get me but do they have to watch me? yes HATE is a strong word and i used it alot. its becasue i am so frustrated. people don't think and that pisses me off. i used hate because i can. it is a free country right? opps wait thats right its not. sorry big brother didn't mean to offend. please don't put this in my file.

__________________
"enjoy life to the brim but do not spill it" quoted off my tatoo

"Iam myself every day."

Sty

Some british troops sued the goverment because they didn't *REALLY* sign up to die for or shoot people. Don't know what's the current status of the thighie.

They sign up because they think it's fun and that there's an extremely low probability of them to get shot at anyways. It's more common to get killed in a training excercise during peace time than getting killed in the last three real wars US has fought.

...reminds me that here in .fi the military service is mandatory for all males...

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br,
Sty

I route, therefore you exist

Sparhawk

Actually, the number one killer of military members is automobile accidents. Funny, it's also the number one killer of 16-25 year olds.

__________________
"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

Kadath

Flag worship is the emptiest form of patriotism. All the flags waving everywhere are supposed to be a sign of unity, but everyone's still looking out for number one.

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it's quiet in here

Liquor Dealer

Only thing on the back of my car is an "8"! This is scairy!
This is the only thing that has ever been on the back of my car - I meant it was scairy because it is what the Dude is using for an avatar this week.

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

krwlz

3legged, I was sayin that a month after 9 11. People are fucking pathetic wretches.

The_Dude

why an 8 ??

my 8's for dale jr, you must be kidding me, no way you're a dale jr fan

__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

XenuHubbard

I am an extreme patriot one month every fourth year.
The Soccer World Cup, ah yeah... I'm longing for it...

Apart from that, I couldn't give a shit.

__________________
The above was written by a true prophet. Trust me.

"What doesn't kill you, makes you bitter and paranoid". - SB2000

Sun Tzu

3leggedfrog you mentioned you served in the military. Im sure you have some interesting experiences. I served in the Navy as a Corpsman for 5 1/2. I started out at NAVMEDCENSD went to BUDS got injured and then went to the green side serving with 3/3 and 1/12 Marines out of Hawaii. You have some very strong perspectives. What branch and units were you with?

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

seretogis

Sun, when you signed up for the Navy were you completely oblivious to the fact that you may get sent off to war and get injured or killed?

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seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

3leggedfrog

lol me too. Navy corpsman grey side for 5.5 years. hosptial in US for 2 years and a ship out from guam for 3.5.

__________________
"enjoy life to the brim but do not spill it" quoted off my tatoo

"Iam myself every day."

magic_hat

3legged, the root of the problem in my opinion is tradition. There is no way we can continue traditions that our forefathers created. This country was created by slave owners, how can we expand and make change for the better if we still participate in their ideals? i think your frustrations are shared by many people in this country, but not enough. as people get older they tend to give up their true feelings and latch onto the giant wave of mindlesness that makes up our nation....for what?

3leggedfrog

ok i see i am not clear. first Sun is one of the crazy kind..no offence Sun.. he did the navy seal and marines thing. he is not your typical military.

during and about 6 months after bootcamp the idea of war is like kids playing war. then most people don't think about it anymore they do their drill and go home to their barricks or where ever. when they, the higher ups, tell you your about to be deployed, at first its excitement. hey we finally get to do what we are trained for. lets go play. then the relaization creaps in. hey man this the real thing. all your trainers told you all sorts of facts like for each man shot it take three men to deal with him. these facts do not sink in untill this moment. the fake bodies that you been practicing on could be your best friend or worse even you. in that moment you being to realize that your job to to kill people and be to shot at. this fact does not usally sink in to this moment. talk about a wake up call.

so i geuss that yes people who join the military do know that they are joining to kill, but in reality its a sophmoric concept at best. lets go play with neat mechines and things that blow stuff up. the reality of the fact that you could die is extreamly remote. yea i could die but not really.

your true warriors are your special forces and marines. they truely learn that their job is to kill and die for their country. most just do it for the adrenaline high though although you do have your hard core patriots.

__________________
"enjoy life to the brim but do not spill it" quoted off my tatoo

"Iam myself every day."

geep

Dear 3leggedfrog

Thank you for clearing up for me how I feel. I'm just one of the stupid masses whose fog of mindlessness has been lifted by the thoughtful insight of your rant. I am plainly too stupid to know how I feel about my country. Tell me- why is it patriotism only became fashionable after 9/11? Or was it fashionable in some places before and you just never noticed. Do you remember the Vietnam Era? I do. I guess I loved my country then, too. Many of the people who voted and did jury duty did not seem to share my enthusiasm for my country. Patriotism has nothing to do with volunteering at your local food shelter, most of them didn't even exist back then.

We must be mindless if we believe that a military is not for war. Someone has done a good sales job. We should double the fee we pay to whoever is coming up with all those slick Army commercials- man are they good! You'll buy the product with out even knowing what it's for.

I love my country. Maybe much more than the average American, even after 9/11. But I'm not sure because I don't know whats in their hearts or on their mindless minds. I do know that I don't have any bumper stickers saying anything, and I didn't send any candy to our troops overseas. I did send some very dear friends though. Men and women who knew exactly what they were there for. Love for your country has nothing to do with the flag or even feeding you your teeth if you say something bad enough about it. My love for my country has a lot to do with how I feel, and you really don't have a clue about that. And if other people feel that way because of 9/11 then so be it. I personally welcome them with open arms. It's about time people learned to appreciate what they've got,especially since they've got the best. And as for the rest of you un-patriotic elite (we patriots are after all the masses) if you don't like it here don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Gortexfogg

Many of our forefathers may have owned slaves, but they were not all racist jerks. It was debated whether slavery would be allowed in the newly formed US. They decided it would be too much of a problem to work out (since they had numerous others at hand). And our constitution states all men (no definition of color) are created equal.
Our forefather's ideals weren't dominated by slavery, but by money and freedom.

Melwas

I must say, from the other side of the Atlantic, the American Patriotism does seem to have become fake over the last couple of years.

It was very respectful how 9/11 brought your country together, but since then the big-headedness started growing, and growing and growing. This is why so many people have false beliefs about what most of you level headed Americans are really like.

MacGnG

my grandfather was a veteran and since he died a couple years ago my mom put up a flag in the front of our house, no one really payed attention to that then but, when people started putting a flag on their SUV it's considered patriotism, well it's not. it's fake patriotism like u said but people who dont show patriotism are seen as anti-american or whatever u want to call them.

i dont see it as a big deal because in a few year its all gonna go away like how everything else happends here!

Sun Tzu

Its a pathetic thing, but I was hoping for it. I didnt join for college, or love of my country, not even physical disipline; I got that from years of martial arts. One aspect of me, that now looking back I can say I didnt have a grip on, is my anger. Not the immediate high temper kind of agitation, but that deep seeded vengeful harboring kind. I consider myself fortunate to be alive and have a band of brothers that will always be my friends.

I cant speak for everyone; so thats the only part I would disagree with seretogis about because my perception of what he said makes it sound like a majority join thinking they would never be in harms way. That is my perception though, so each to their own.

Something I'll always remember: I joined hoping I would have a chance to kill. The first part of my enlistment was working as an EMT at a Naval Hospital. I had to help a woman with an emergency childbirth in the back of an ambulance. When I clamped the cord and handed the lady her baby; life's perspective changed. Followed by a big dose of be careful what you ask for.

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

seretogis

I wouldn't consider that "fake patriotism", unless said SUV-owner just came back from an "add-a-constitutional-amendment-to-ban-flag-burning" rally, in which case they would be hypocritical and thus a "fake" patriot.

Actually, what I'm saying is that I have been in a military recruitment office and cannot understand how anyone could join up without thinking that they may go to war and be injured or even killed. It seems incredibly obvious to me, and perhaps even glorified.

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seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

Liquor Dealer

Patriotism is something you either have or don't have. If you have it people know. If you don't, it makes no difference what you do trying to infer patriotism - Patriotism is a 7 day a week, 24 hour a day, 365 days a year thing - you either are or you aren't If you are, people know! If you aren't, 10,000 flags and bumper stickers won't change anyone who knows you's opinion.

__________________
Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

Sparhawk

Certainly not an Air Force recruiting office. One thing's for sure though: there are as many reasons for joining the military as there are folks <b>in</b> the military.

__________________
"In Iraq, no doubt about it, it's tough. It's hard work. It's incredibly hard. It's - and it's hard work. I understand how hard it is. I get the casualty reports every day. I see on the TV screens how hard it is. But it's necessary work. We're making progress. It is hard work."

Tom Thumb

My least favourite kind of patriotism is the kind that led to bumper stickers saying "you're dead, towel head" and essays about why we should torture POWs.

But then, I live in Canada, where the worst I really see is letters to the editors from the States deriding Chretien for not openly joining the war effort.

I'm fairly proud to live where I live, though. That's about far as I'll go for imaginary lines.

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My name is marketing. Now buy my product.

Kadath

geep, 3leggedfrog addressed his post to the mindless faux-patriotic masses. If you felt it referred to you...well, you need to draw your own conclusions from that. He didn't say all patriots are part of the masses. He didn't tell you how you felt. Don't get your back up over a perceived insult. And I don't like it here, right now anyway. See my sig. It pertains to you, and anyone else of the "love it or leave it" mentality. You're still not a fascist, but you are taking this the wrong way.

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it's quiet in here

3leggedfrog

Kadath, thank man. i was just going to ingore it but thanks man

__________________
"enjoy life to the brim but do not spill it" quoted off my tatoo

"Iam myself every day."

magic_hat

that doesnt make any sense. i dont think they decided it would be a problem and continued to enslave people. slavery played a big part in making the United States what it is today! i think it was pretty obvious they meant "White men" are created equal, since the black man was oppressed for over 100 years after the creation of the const.

Darkblack

I might get a lot of flames for this but I have an opinion I would like to put out...

A man is walking down the street when he notices a burning building. He walks up to see if he can help. The firefighters are inside the building trying to get survivors out to safety. The man decides he will assist and grabs some wet rags to take to the firefighters to help them cool off. He notices a woman at the window and directs the firefighters to her location. The firefighters save her but the building falls and all the firefighters and the man die.

To me, the firefighters died doing their job. The man that decided he would help died a hero. The firefighters were brave and did a service that will always be remembered but it is not heroic.

I think we use hero too much. In mythology the hero was usually chosen by the gods and possessed mighty courage and strength. There was normally one per story.

Now, if you’re trapped in a mine and survive you are a hero, if you do a dangerous job and die you are a hero, if you fight for your life on an airplane you are a hero. Don't get me wrong, I think all of these people should be honored and remembered. I just think using the hero word so much is making being a hero not so heroic.

geep

I didn't really take it personally. Just trying to stir the pot... agitate the masses so to speak. I'm not really a love it or leave it person, although I do know some people who loved it AND left it during the draft. Strange, huh. I love to debate and will take either side to do so. I prefer the side my opinion comes down on and will usually be there, but not always. That said 3leggedfrog, don't ignore me FIRE BACK!

As far as your sig goes... A little mistrust is always a healthy thing. I think the operative word there is little.

Darkblack no flames from me. To me a hero is an exception, not the rule.

Melwas

Any one of those firefighters could have stepped back and said "no".

But yes i agree with you to a par, a new word should be invented for these... sub-heroes, if that sounds right.

splck

I agree with you. Hero is so watered down.

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nice line eh?

reconmike

A Patriots rant,

The non-civilian personal that ran into a 100 story plus building that had jumbo jets fly into them ARE heros.

It is really easy to sit at your friggen computer desk and say they are not.
Get real.
Running into a burning skyscraper because it is your job? Hardly these people are heroic in every sense of the word. They gave their lives trying to save others. They did not have to go anywhere near those buildings. They could have easily thought I have a family at home that needs me and had gone home.
They didn't.
Would you have gone into those buildings?
Or would you have been one of those thousands we saw running down the street?

Now for all you bandwagon patriots;

If you are going to fly my colors after sunset put a friggen light on it, if not bring it in.
It deserves more than flying in the dark.
If it is tattered or torn give it its proper disposal.

If you have defended those colors you are better than most,
not everyone has what it takes to stand up and and repay a birthright.
Most semi-intelligent people know they have joined a branch knowing they might end up in combat.

As for me I have served enough for alot of people.

Oh and here is the back of my car.

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Where is Darwin when ya need him?

Kadath

Man! You blurred out the plate. I was all set to work some evil mojo with that information.
But at least we agree on treatment of the flag. It infuriates me when I see a flag flown at night, or in the rain, or in a condition that shames the colors. There's one down the street from me with a whole corner torn off and raggedy edges trailing from it. You don't even know what you're doing. Take that flag down, and cremate it, then go buy a crisp new one to display. When I was young we had a flag on the treehouse in my backyard. It became tattered, as is to be expected, and I told my father we had to take it down. I took it to the driveway, set it aflame, and watched it until it was ash. I may not like the way my country is going, or the way people use the flag, but I still love what it should stand for.

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it's quiet in here

XenuHubbard

Did it really take you a terrorist attack to realize what firemen do?
They're ready for this every week. So yeah, I'd call them heroes.

As for flags: I truly couldn't give a shit about a piece of fabric.

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The above was written by a true prophet. Trust me.

"What doesn't kill you, makes you bitter and paranoid". - SB2000

Lebell

Amen, Brother.

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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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