New Jersey Shuts Down-mini-rant - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ngdawg · 07-04-2006, 06:07 AM

shutdown
TRENTON, New Jersey (AP) -- After Gov. Jon S. Corzine ordered nonessential government services shut down Saturday amid a bitter intraparty budget dispute, the lottery and some road construction projects were the first to go.

State beaches, parks and campgrounds were to stay open through the July Fourth holiday. But should the impasse extend beyond Tuesday, they too would be added to the list of closed attractions.

Atlantic City's 12 casinos require state monitoring, but lawyers for the casino industry were challenging the closing order in court. The state would lose an estimated $2 million in tax revenue every day the casinos are shut.

The core issue? A penny. Corzine wants to raise the state sales tax from 6% to 7%, but state legislators are balking.
New Jersey is inarguably one of the, if not THE, most expensive state to live in. A home for $100k anywhere else would sell for more than twice that here and its taxes in many counties would be over 5 grand. Our auto insurance is the highest in the nation.
Our government is famous for its corruptions at all levels; I would not be surprised if NJ held some sort of record for the most mayors sent to jail.
Corzine's campaign promises were worthless, starting with the day after his inauguration, when he announced an increase in gas taxes.
The shutdown means, essentially, that anything and everything that the state backs will cease. This includes the lottery, Atlantic City casinos, park services, welfare, etc. The part about being allowed to keep state workers working with no pay is incredulous to me. Who'd volunteer for that duty?
Personally, I've had it with this state. We can't afford to live here at all; major companies that used to make NJ home are outsourcing or moving, making job searching futile for those like my husband, who are tradespeople dependent on corporations in need of the services. We've become a state of malls-ironic since retail doesn't exactly pay enough to afford living here. We're a distinctly divided state, between the haves and have-nots and the have-nots are growing faster.
I can't even say with certainty that NJ is overly partisan; although Corzine and his predecessor, the famously disgraced McGreevey, are both Dems (neither of which I cared for at all) and NJ normally follows a Democratic majority.
This is probably more of a rant than a debate(feel free, though to knock NJ, etc) ; just be glad if you don't reside here and if you do, check out your options of moving. Just don't use the toll roads-they're probably closed.

flstf · 07-04-2006, 07:45 AM

I don't know anything about NJ politics but this seems like a rather chidish reaction by the governor. Instead of cutting spending to balance the budget it appears he wants to teach a lesson to those who do not agree with him. I guess he is going to take his ball and go home.

maleficent · 07-04-2006, 09:08 AM

we've had our share of winners as governors in the fair state of nj... Anyone remember Christie's promises to get the insurance rates lowered?

Cynthetiq · 07-04-2006, 09:32 AM

Since NJ was where I ended up for 5 years in the beginning of my Northeastern adventures, I have this love-hate relationship with it.

I have been following this as best as I can in the news from here. It more reminds me of the federal shutdown in the 90s over a similar issue or not balancing the budget.

I do not really know the particulars about the partisan plays, I do understand that this is not much difference than the TWU-MTA shutdown before Christmas. You try to push the other side to blink and sometimes they call your bluff.

ngdawg · 07-04-2006, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

we've had our share of winners as governors in the fair state of nj... Anyone remember Christie's promises to get the insurance rates lowered?

Yea, and State Farm and Allstate vowed to pull out if they did(GEICO DID pull out just under an earlier threat-Kean's, I think- and only recently came back in). Christie wasn't as bad as these last few and infinitely better than Florio. Her property tax rebate beginnings were at least a 'heart-in-the-right-place" move, and McGreevey wanted to cut it out entirely. And I'm not sure if it was the time in general or Christie's leadership, but NJ was at least stable and we as a whole lived a hell of a lot better than now and the past 5 years. Once McGreevey took over, a LOT of industries booked out of here. We lost Revlon, Ford, GMC, parts of Verizon and Johnson and Johnson moved out most of their production, although they kept their homebase.
Should Corzine get his wish and the sales tax goes up, it will backfire on all but big-ticket items-and Delaware, only a two hour drive from central NJ, is a tax-free state.
When the taxes on cigs went up, causing packs to sell for over $6 in most places, internet sales skyrocketed. That's a drop in the bucket compared to what'll happen with this. He's looking for an easy out and this ain't it.

Necrosis · 07-04-2006, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngdawg

After Gov. Jon S. Corzine ordered nonessential government services shut down Saturday amid a bitter intraparty budget dispute, the lottery and some road construction projects were the first to go.

New Jersey is inarguably one of the, if not THE, most expensive state to live in. A home for $100k anywhere else would sell for more than twice that here and its taxes in many counties would be over 5 grand. ..

Our government is famous for its corruptions at all levels; I would not be surprised if NJ held some sort of record for the most mayors sent to jail.
Corzine's campaign promises were worthless, starting with the day after his inauguration, when he announced an increase in gas taxes. ..

major companies that used to make NJ home are outsourcing or moving, making job searching futile for those like my husband, who are tradespeople dependent on corporations in need of the services.

A few patterns are borne out here.

1. While I would consider the politicians to be the most "nonessential" of all, I'd make a sizeable wager that they are still being paid.

2. I'm certain there are, or have been, comments from the governor that if the sales tax isn't raised, police and fire protection will suffer. They don't ever say, "If we don't get this tax, libraries will have to close an hour early."

3. A politician raised taxes the instant he/she got into office. Much more common among Dems.

4. By any chance, did the governor have a couple of years of good tax receipts, after which he raised spending to the skies? That's what California's governor did--he raised spending by 35% on the basis of one or two good years, which is why they're in such a mess.

If it's any consolation, in California they blamed the governor for the shutdown THEY had over the budget.

I know this isn't helpful; it's mainly a commiseration.

ngdawg · 07-04-2006, 09:59 AM

Quote:

4. By any chance, did the governor have a couple of years of good tax receipts, after which he raised spending to the skies? That's what California's governor did--he raised spending by 35% on the basis of one or two good years, which is why they're in such a mess.

He's been in office a whole 7 months....

He can't even blame this all on a 'previous partisan governorship' since his predecessor was of the same party-Democrat, albeit he was busy chasing appointees with no experience in their respective offices while trying to appear hetero.....time-consuming activities, I'm sure.
Corzine is making a point of saying that if the sales tax isn't raised, EVERYTHING will suffer and NJ will implode, yada, yada. But I'll give just one example of how this state works, one that I'm personally familiar with:
Under the guidance of the NJEA, laws were put into effect that no longer, mere educated laypeople could be teacher assistants. They now had to be either teachers themselves or have gone through the certification, meaning a few classes then testing.
Laypeople made less than $15k as a rule; teachers just out of college with a Bachelor's start at approx. $25k, give or take. Two things happened as a result; one, the NJEA reaped more dues, based on the increased salaries of these new assistant requirements and two; district educational spending, which is backed by the state, went up. A lot. So, people like me, who were shown the door, both lost income AND had their property tax increase.
And that is NJ in a nutshell.

host · 07-04-2006, 02:49 PM

Here is a link to a post that I made about John Corzine in April, 2005:
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...3&postcount=29

I think that the people of NJ are very fortunate to have elected the man as
their governor. How do you think that you could do better than Corzine?
He is not motivated by the possibility of gaining personal wealth. He has
spent huge sums of his own money to become your leader.

He is not motivated by special interests...he cannot be bought. He will promote
policies of taxing to pay current expenses...contrast that with Whitman's legacy.
Do you really favor saddling your children with huge debt to further the career
of a fiscally irresponsible and ambitious politician, only interested in showing
you tax cuts now, to build her image, leaving you with double the prior bonding debt?

IMO, you should support Corzine, because he is the best you will ever do, as far as
a governor. He wants to give something back, and he seems like the real deal. He paid
from his own pocket to share his financial, management, and leadership skills. His
successor at Goldman Sachs was just appointed secretary of the U.S. Treasury. Consider why
he bucks the trend of the vast majority of the welathiest to align with the GOP.

He is a democrat, even though, with his considerable personal wealth, it is not in his
best interest to be one. Be glad that he is willing to shut down the AC casinos until a
realistic budget that deals with a looming $4 billion state deficit is passed. Most governors
could not withstand the loss of future campaign contributions that would come in reaction
by that industry, to such a move.

Your anti union, anti NJEA comments seem misplaced.....it seems that the NCLB (No Child Left
Behind Act) is responsible for higher educational minimums for teaching assistants.

Does it seem practical, with $3 a gallon gas, for the high concentration of NJ residents who
live across from NYC to drive 2 hours to Delaware to avoid paying sales tax? I lived in Manhattan
several years ago, and I shopped in NJ. Even with the one percent proposed increase, NJ will still
attract NY shoppers because your tax will still be lower than in NY. What does it cost in pkwy or
turnpike tolls to drive to Delaware and back?

Quote:

STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS / WHITMAN'S LEGACY
Press of Atlantic City, The (NJ)
January 11, 2001
Author: The Press of Atlantic City (Unpublished)

.....THE MOST SOBERING ASSESSMENT OF THE OUTGOING GOVERNOR - ONE CRITICS BELIEVE WILL DOMINATE HER LEGACY - IS THAT SHE FINANCED HER TAX CUTS BY INCREASING STATE DEBT FROM $7.1 BILLION TO $15.7 BILLION. ADD IN THE $8.6 BILLION SCHOOL-CONSTRUCTION PROGRAM, WHICH IS TO BE FINANCED THROUGH BONDING, AND STATE DEBT WILL HAVE TRIPLED SINCE WHITMAN TOOK OFFICE.

AMONG THE FEW NEW PROPOSALS IN WHITMAN'S STATE OF THE STATE WAS A CALL TO OPEN THE 2001-02 BUDGET YEAR WITH A $1 BILLION SURPLUS. GIVEN THE SUDDENLY FRAGILE NATURE OF THE ECONOMY, LEGISLATORS SHOULD MOVE CAUTIOUSLY AS THEY EYE THAT SURPLUS AS A SOURCE OF ELECTION-YEAR SPENDING.

Quote:

The mystery of Christie
Star-Ledger, The (Newark, NJ)
January 10, 2001
Author: JOHN MCLAUGHLIN

Americans are likely to wind up a little confused about just what they're getting when Christie Whitman goes to Washington to take up her duties as administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, no matter how thorough her confirmation hearings. After all, New Jerseyans haven't been able to get a clear fix on where she stands even after seven years as governor.

Is she a stand-up defender of clean air and water and open spaces? Or a regulation-cutting advocate for businesses and developers whose idea of "green" doesn't extend beyond the color of money? There are days when Whitman seems to relish this ambiguity, arguing she must be doing something right if both business and environmental groups are on her case......

....So will she be the Christie Whitman who left a legacy of a million acres of greenery, inaugurated a new auto inspection system and fought ocean dumping, New York garbage and the Midwest smokestacks that foul the air here?

Or the Christie Whitman who cut the budget of her own Department of Environmental Protection by 25 percent, who slashed the DEP payroll by more than 700 employees, abolished the office of environmental prosecutor, weakened the Pinelands preservation effort and cut fines levied against polluters?

Will she come on like the governor who vowed to use the state master plan to control development or the one who gave her blessing and millions of dollars to bring 3.5 million square feet of Merrill Lynch office buildings to rural Hopewell Township?

Will she make the tough calls or make it easier for polluters?

Will she do the job or try to prove her dedication through hiking and canoeing photo-ops?.......

Quote:

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstra...AF0894DE404482

Corzine's Test: Will Tax Plan Win the Day?
New York Times, The (NY)
June 26, 2006
Author: DAVID W. CHEN

After spending more than $100 million of his own money to make the transition from Wall Street to the United States Senate, and then to the governor's office in New Jersey, Gov. Jon S. Corzine is bracing for the biggest test of his brief political career.

New Jersey is legally obligated to produce a balanced budget for the next fiscal year by this weekend, and with a $4 billion shortfall, Mr. Corzine is strenuously trying to persuade tax-allergic legislators that his proposal to increase the sales tax to 7 percent from 6 percent is the most responsible plan, not just for this year, but for the future. He is zeroing in on his fellow Democrats, who control both chambers of the Legislature.
Whether Mr. Corzine is able to bring around the more recalcitrant members of his party could well determine how successful he is over the next four years, and perhaps beyond.

"If he doesn't stand fast on the budget we might as well re-elect McGreevey or Whitman," said Michael M. Horn, a former state treasurer in the Kean administration, criticizing the fiscal policies of former Govs. James E. McGreevey, a Democrat, and Christie Whitman, a Republican. "But I expect the governor to do the right thing."

To close the deal, Mr. Corzine -- a former co-chairman of Goldman Sachs -- has summoned all the personal skills that made him such a popular, yet idiosyncratic, leader there. He has held unusual one-on-one meetings with legislators as well as organized breakfasts with small groups of them, not to twist their arms, they say, but to amplify his budget arguments.

Publicly, he has displayed a rare fiery side, pumping his fists at a rally of about 6,000 union supporters in Trenton last week and vowing to veto a budget that did not provide sufficient money to ensure that the pension plan for state employees remains adequately financed.

When Assembly Speaker Joseph J. Roberts Jr. said that the $31 billion budget was doomed in the Assembly as long as it included the sales tax increase, Mr. Corzine returned the volley by warning of a government shutdown if the Legislature failed to come to terms by the Saturday deadline.

And having spent his career at one of the premier investment houses, Mr. Corzine has taken a very hands-on approach with the fine print. He even reverts to his business roots -- sometimes a bit too closely -- as he did at a news conference last Thursday, when he dismissed a suggestion by some legislators to cut technology spending by $50 million.

"We need to expand our technological base if we're actually going to save money in the long-run management of the compa----" he said, stopping in mid-word. "Of the government."

Should Mr. Corzine prevail, he will enhance his credibility as an outsider who promised to apply his bottom-line and big-picture business mentality to a political system with a reputation of being petty and corrupt. And should he help turn the state's finances around, Mr. Corzine's name could well be on many Democrats' short list for president in 2012.

But if he fails, Mr. Corzine will probably find it all but impossible to pursue other goals that might also be considered politically risky, like property tax reform and bolstering public school finances.

"He, more than most governors in the past, has stated this year's budget not only in terms of how do you fill a hole, but how do you turn a ship around," said Jon Shure, president of New Jersey Policy Perspective, a liberal research organization.

If the budget represents Mr. Corzine's political Rubicon, then it is reminiscent of what two other prominent businessmen-turned-politicians faced in their first years in office.

In Virginia, former Gov. Mark Warner, a Democrat who is contemplating a 2008 presidential bid, failed to get a sales tax passed in an attempt to improve the state's finances, but shepherded a successful bipartisan attempt two years later.

And in New York City, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg -- a Republican whom Mr. Corzine often praises -- pushed through an 18 percent increase in property taxes in his first year in office and took a beating in opinion polls before bouncing back and winning re-election convincingly last year.

"It really enabled Bloomberg to be able to use political capital on other initiatives, as opposed to having to fight the same budget fight every single year," said Eric Shuffler, who was a top aide to the previous governors, Richard J. Codey and James E. McGreevey, and is now a public policy consultant based in Manhattan. "So Governor Corzine is rightly trying to close a long-term structural deficit with recurring revenues, because those recurring revenues will pay dividends for him in terms of the rest of his agenda."

Mr. Corzine's task is complicated by the fact that New Jersey legislators have a long memory when it comes to the effect tax increases have at election time. Hardly a day goes by now without someone mentioning former Gov. James Florio, who raised the sales tax in 1990 to 7 percent from 6 percent.

In the next election, Democratic legislators lost control of both chambers and Republicans later rolled back the tax. Governor Florio was defeated in a bid for a second term by Mrs. Whitman.

In 2007, all 120 legislators face election, and recent polls have indicated that most residents oppose Mr. Corzine's proposal to increase the sales tax.

Yet in the public arena, at least, Mr. Corzine -- having learned from Mr. Florio's demise -- has done far more to soften the public and pitch his plan, which originally featured about $2 billion in spending cuts and $2 billion in tax increases, with the sales tax increase accounting for $1.1 billion.

He has attended about a dozen town hall budget meetings and appeared twice on a popular morning talk show on WKXW-FM, 101.5, which more than a decade ago helped galvanize opposition to Mr. Florio and his tax increase.

And more recently, Mr. Corzine has tried to sway lawmakers -- something that many Democrats had complained the administration had not done enough of during the previous three months. He has focused on the Assembly, where Democrats make up the largest number of outspoken opponents of the sales tax increase.

Last Thursday he had breakfast with Hudson County legislators, and the next day he was met with their colleagues from Essex County.

Nor was that all. On Thursday, the revolving door at the State House seemed as if it had been moved from the main entrance on State Street to the governor's inner sanctum. In addition to Mr. Codey and Mr. Roberts, he met with Assembly Democrats like Valerie Vainieri Huttle of Bergen County; Linda R. Greenstein, who represents Mercer and Middlesex Counties; and Herb Conaway and Jack Conners, who represent Burlington and Camden Counties.

In the end, many leading Democratic and Republican legislators say privately that they expect Mr. Corzine to get most of what he wants. He has already dropped a proposed tax on hospital beds that he had hoped would raise $430 million. And most important, he still has the support of Mr. Codey, and because -- armed with a line-item veto -- he arguably occupies the most powerful governorship in the country.

One freshman Democratic legislator who had a private audience with Mr. Corzine, Assemblyman Gary S. Schaer of Passaic County, said he was impressed that Mr. Corzine "affirmed his vision of fiscal integrity."

Perhaps just as important, Mr. Schaer, himself a stockbroker in Manhattan, said that Mr. Corzine appeared to be calm and confident.

As he put it, "The governor is a former trader, and traders thrive on this."

Quote:

http://www.njsba.org/members_only/pu...r/content.html
January/February 2004 Issue

http://www.njsba.org/members_only/pu...ofessional.htm
Leaving No Paraprofessional Behind

....Under President Bush’s sweeping $47.6 billion package known as the No Child Left Behind Act, these paraprofessionals are being pressured to meet certain standards or face termination.

When the president signed this legislation in his first month in the Oval Office, it was of only passing interest to Sharon Tapia of Jersey City. At the time, the mother of four was recently employed as a paraprofessional in the Jersey City Public Schools. There was no way for her to have imagined that Bush’s initiative would land her back in a classroom, taking copious notes and praying for lenient homework assignments.

But now, under the strict guidelines of the federal act, Tapia is a student at Hudson County Community College, taking courses as part of the school district’s preparation program, to keep her $17,500 job. “When I first found out that I had to go back to college, I thought there was no way that I could keep my job,” Tapia said. “Why would I go through the expense and bother of going to college, while trying to care for my children, for a job that pays so little?”..

ngdawg · 07-04-2006, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Your anti union, anti NJEA comments seem misplaced.....it seems that the NCLB (No Child Left
Behind Act) is responsible for higher educational minimums for teaching assistants.

Does it seem practical, with $3 a gallon gas, for the high concentration of NJ residents who
live across from NYC to drive 2 hours to Delaware to avoid paying sales tax? I lived in Manhattan
several years ago, and I shopped in NJ. Even with the one percent proposed increase, NJ will still
attract NY shoppers because your tax will still be lower than in NY. What does it cost in pkwy or
turnpike tolls to drive to Delaware and back?

The union guidelines were first bandied about before the NCLB and came into effect in 2003. Bottom line is always revenue, so it was an easy choice for them, not for those of us who got pushed aside.
Now that Manhattan has the tax free days a couple times a year, coupled with the proposed increase here(and gas prices), sales will drop off daily; the longrun is anyone's guess.
Delaware is still a good possibility for many who live close enough; it's a half hour out of Philly and I95 isn't a toll road. 7% on a relatively large purchase, ie; computers or large appliances would more than make up in savings what's spent getting there. Then there's internet buying which would undoubtedly increase.
NJ residents are jaded. Regardless of his wealth and therefore personal interests, we've had the thumbscrews in so long, he could walk on water and we'd question it. Seven months in is barely enough time to thoroughly go item by item on budgetary concerns, even though there had to be a balanced budget by July 1. The property rebates came at a time of surplus and slowly the government here ate away every nickel.
If Corzine is so rich (as, I'm sure many of the state senators are), they can work on a voluntary basis. Fat chance of that though.

djtestudo · 07-04-2006, 07:19 PM

If money is the root of all evil, politicians are the trunk and branches.

host · 07-04-2006, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngdawg

The union guidelines were first bandied about before the NCLB and came into effect in 2003. Bottom line is always revenue, so it was an easy choice for them, not for those of us who got pushed aside.
Now that Manhattan has the tax free days a couple times a year, coupled with the proposed increase here(and gas prices), sales will drop off daily; the longrun is anyone's guess.
Delaware is still a good possibility for many who live close enough; it's a half hour out of Philly and I95 isn't a toll road. 7% on a relatively large purchase, ie; computers or large appliances would more than make up in savings what's spent getting there. Then there's internet buying which would undoubtedly increase.
NJ residents are jaded. Regardless of his wealth and therefore personal interests, we've had the thumbscrews in so long, he could walk on water and we'd question it. Seven months in is barely enough time to thoroughly go item by item on budgetary concerns, even though there had to be a balanced budget by July 1. The property rebates came at a time of surplus and slowly the government here ate away every nickel.
If Corzine is so rich (as, I'm sure many of the state senators are), they can work on a voluntary basis. Fat chance of that though.

I don't even believe that sales tax increases are the fairest method to raise additional revenue, because they disproportionally tax the bottom half of the population who spend all of the money that they have, each month; especially now that gasoline and heating costs have skyrocketed.,,,,,but.....

....I disagree with all of your protests and concerns. Here is why:
Gov. Corzine volunteered not to accept any of his $175K annual salary even before he took office.

Something has to be done quickly to signifigantly increase state revenue. No one has come up with a way
to replace the $1.1 billion that the penny sales tax increase is expected to take in, in the next 12 months.
The era of Whitman tax decreases did not work.....it resulted in doubling existing state bonding debt, and a school construction bonding intiative that Whitman deferred until she was leaving office. The result was $23 billion in new combined bond debt, vs. less than a total of $8 billion in debt when she took office in 1993.

I've included NJ population distribution documentation and links that support my point that, because of the costs
of travel...fuel, tolls, and the distance...at least half the state population...and the most affluent half....live
too far from Delaware, and too far from I-95....they mostly live near the GS pkwy and NJ Tpke toll roads....to make it worthwhile to shop out of state. The extra miles traveled to reach I-95 to escape the tolls will signifigantly increase the fuel costs of those in the heavily populated north eastern NJ region.

Tax losses from internet purchases have not persuaded NY State to lower their higher than 7 percent sales taxes.
The counties around NYC have even opted out of the yearly, two week "sales tax free" periods allowed by law.
So,,,,not to worry, IMO.

I dont' intend to turn myself into a Corzine cheerleader....but trust him for a couple of years. Whhen it comes to finance management, he knows what he's doing. Any fortune 100 company would hire hime to manage their finances, in a heartbeat. He was the mentor and superior of the new U.S. treasury secretary, Hank Paulson, he paid to get the governor's job, he's not taking a salary, and he'll not only end the state's borrowing, he'll probably design a way to manage and pay back the existing state debt and refinance it at the lowest rates.

As far as the teaching assistants...the GAO report excerpts (below) from 1995 indicate that requiring them to hold college degrees is not a new concept. It has been a requirement in some districts since as far back as 1992, The GAO report shows that the Baltimore teacher's union objected to that requirment. Would you prefer that the NJEA not support reforms in education that are at least 14 years old? My point is that this reform for assistants was not a union driven concept in it's origin. Higher standards are linked to improved schools with better test results, This tends to increase property values. Shouldn't all of the public schools in NJ in 2006, employ teachers assistants that could meet education standards required in some Baltimore schools, 14 years ago?

Quote:

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?se...cal&id=3758735

TRENTON, N.J. (AP) - December 26, 2005 - In deciding not to accept his $175,000 annual salary when he takes office next month, New Jersey Gov.-elect Jon S. Corzine continues a trend started by his predecessors who also opted for austerity in the face of budgetary concerns.
In the past 15 years, most New Jersey governors - all of them career politicians, only one wealthy - have declined their full salaries.

Other millionaire officeholders around the country, such as California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg and in his day, President John F. Kennedy, have declined their paychecks.

Corzine, a 58-year-old former Goldman Sachs CEO who is to take office Jan. 17, spent a combined $107 million of his own cash on his successful 2000 U.S. Senate campaign and this year's governor's race. Last year, Corzine's estimated net worth ranged as high as $262 million.....

Quote:

http://www.gao.gov/archive/1996/he96003.pdf
or html link: http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache...s&ct=clnk&cd=2

United States
General Accounting Office
Washington, D.C. 20548
Health, Education, and
Human Services Division
B-259870
April 19, 1996

.....As you requested, we are providing our report about the early experiences of four school
districts that contracted with private companies for management of their public schools.......

From .pdf page 21:

In July 1992, the Baltimore City Public School District signed a 5-year
contract with EAI that gave EAI broad authority and responsibility for
managing 99 of the district’s 183 schools. Under the contract, EAI was to
(1) implement its Tesseract instructional approach, which included
supplying computers for use as instructional tools and college-educated
teaching assistants;.........

From .pdf page 25:

In Baltimore, the mayor, superintendent, and, initially, the teachers union
supported private management of the public schools. The school district
selected for private management only those schools with principals who
were interested in private management. In addition, the district gave
teachers who did not want to teach in privately managed schools the
option of transferring to other schools in the district. The teachers union,
however, opposed EAI’s requirement that teaching assistants(11) have at least
90 college credits.
The teaching assistants who did not meet this requirement were
transferred from the privately managed schools to other schools in the
district. EAI replaced these assistants with a larger number of teaching
assistants, who usually had college degrees. The Baltimore teachers union
protested the transfers as well as the replacements. The union contended
that the original teaching assistants were valuable because they were
experienced and from schools’ neighboring communities and therefore
provided inner-city children much needed relationships with familiar,
trusted adults.

(11) Baltimore refers to its teaching assistants as paraprofessionals while EAI refers to them as
instructional interns.

The total population of new Jersey is estimated at 8,717,925
You can quickly view the population of each county by clicking this link:
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/map...ersey_map.html

These are the population figures for the most densely populated counties, and they
are distant enough from Delaware to make it unlikley that signifigant numbers
will make the trip to another state to save one percent vs. the current six percent
sales tax. These counties contain 4 million people...the folks who enjoy the highest
household income...they'll continue to do the bulk of their shopping in NJ, as they
do now, IMO:

<a href="http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/34/34017.html">Hudson Cty population= 603,521</a>
<a href="http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/34/34003.html">Bergen Cty population= 902,561</a>
<a href="http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/34/34031.html">Passaic Cty population= 499,060</a>
<a href="http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/34/34013.html">Essex Cty population= 499,060</a>
<a href="http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/34/34027.html">Morris Cty population= 490,593</a>
<a href="http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/34/34025.html">Monmouth Cty population= 635,952</a>
<a href="http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/34/34035.html">Somerset Cty population= 319,900</a>

As far as your concerns about loss of sales tax revenue due to internet sales...this 2006 NY State report
concludes that although it is a problem, it is not enough of one to persuade NY State tax dsitricts to
reduce current sales tax rates that are all between 7 percent and 9-1/2 percent:

Quote:

http://www.osc.state.ny.us/localgov/...nal_report.pdf
Local Government Sales Taxes in New York State Local Government ...

From .pdf page 23:

Internet Sales
Competition from adjacent states, and from internet sales, is a serious tax policy issue in New
York State. Each year, State and local sales tax revenues are lost to the growing popularity of ecommerce
transactions (i.e., internet purchases), where sales tax is often not collected. As this form
of commerce grows, so will the amount of uncollected sales tax revenue.7
Estimates of uncollected sales tax revenues vary widely due to varying assumptions related to
compliance rates, definitions of e-commerce and measurements of e-commerce sales. A 2000
report from the General Accounting Office estimated state and local sales tax losses nationwide for
2000 between $0.3 and $3.8 billion, or 2 percent of projected sales tax revenue.8 Projected losses
4. 2006-07 New York State Executive Budget -- Economic & Revenue Outlook (p. 369).
5. 2006-07 New York State Executive Budget -- Economic & Revenue Outlook ( p. 361).
6. The Sales Tax Clearinghouse.
7. Although individuals making internet purchases are required to pay the sales and use tax directly to the
Department of Taxation and Finance, few actually do. For further discussion on this issue, go to
http://www.tax.state.ny.us/pdf/publi...pub774_206.pdf
8. “Sales Taxes: Electronic Commerce Growth Presents Challenges; Revenue Losses Are Uncertain.” General
Accounting Office. June 2000.

for 2003 were estimated between $1.0 and $12.4 billion, or 5 percent of projected sales tax revenue.
More recent estimates have been released by various interest groups, including one which cites sales
tax losses on the order of $46 billion by 2006.

From .pdf page 24:

The Tax Rate
A statewide sales and compensating use tax was enacted in 1965 at the rate of 2 percent. This statewide
tax rate was increased to 3 percent in 1969, to 4 percent in 1971, to 4.25 percent in 2003 and then
lowered to 4 percent in 2005.
Counties and cities are authorized by Article 29 of the New York State Tax Law to impose a tax on
the sale of certain goods and services at a rate of up to 3 percent. Although the Tax Law generally
only allows for up to a 3 percent local rate, counties may increase their rates above the 3 percent with
approval from the State Legislature. Currently, local sales tax rates range between 3 percent and 5.5
percent and are added to the statewide sales tax rate of 4 percent. Accordingly, combined rates range
from 7 percent to as much as 9.5 percent.

It's certainly you're right to protest against Corzine's actions and his policies, and against those of the NJEA. I just don't see that your criticism is justified for the reasons that you've given.

tecoyah · 07-05-2006, 02:34 AM

That was....quite possibly the best (serious) Post I have seen on this board.....thank you Host.

ngdawg · 07-05-2006, 11:50 AM

While I agree that internet and out of state sales are raindrops to a pond, they're enough to make various state governments take a serious look at attempts to collect their state sales tax. (NY state was even tracking down internet cigarette buyers to collect).
If Corzine had the backing of even his own party in this, it wouldn't be an issue, but the fact is, he doesn't. And if those inside the club are against his tactics, those of us outside just can't muster up a lot of faith, no matter how well placed his heart is in this.
In just three days of state shutdown, the ramifications are being felt across the state.
As of today, casinos and racetracks are closed, losing billions in revenue; at reopening, there will be most likely layoffs, as stated in articles in today's Star Ledger and Home News.
Because lottery tickets, other than scratchoffs, can not be sold, commissions to the stores that sell them, in addition to the moneys generated to the state, have dropped off considerably.
Only criminal courts for bail hearings, etc. are in session, so people even required to appear in court to prevent arrest or eviction are in a quagmire.
Motor Vehicle offices and stations are closed; there will be letters sent out or have been, extending expired licenses one month.
Whitman's cuts and bond issues were, unfortunately, a bad timing on her part to say the least as she did not complete her term and the next elected governor made Jimmy Carter look like the greatest leader of the 20th century.

None of this is new to New Jersey. Quite the contrary, it's become a futile lifestyle, a joke to political pundits and comedians for decades.
As for the changes to educational instructional hiring, they did a hell of a lot of good-many districts' scores have dropped in the last decade; some inner city districts and not even inner city ones have been 'taken over' by the state and haven't fared any better since. Some irony in that is that, here, for example, the district only grandfathered in the most tenured, replaced everyone else with teachers, essentially raising the budget and NJ said our district is too rich to qualify for X amount of dollars.....

*my head spins....

07-04-2006, 06:07 AM	#1 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	New Jersey Shuts Down-mini-rant shutdown TRENTON, New Jersey (AP) -- After Gov. Jon S. Corzine ordered nonessential government services shut down Saturday amid a bitter intraparty budget dispute, the lottery and some road construction projects were the first to go. State beaches, parks and campgrounds were to stay open through the July Fourth holiday. But should the impasse extend beyond Tuesday, they too would be added to the list of closed attractions. Atlantic City's 12 casinos require state monitoring, but lawyers for the casino industry were challenging the closing order in court. The state would lose an estimated $2 million in tax revenue every day the casinos are shut. The core issue? A penny. Corzine wants to raise the state sales tax from 6% to 7%, but state legislators are balking. New Jersey is inarguably one of the, if not THE, most expensive state to live in. A home for $100k anywhere else would sell for more than twice that here and its taxes in many counties would be over 5 grand. Our auto insurance is the highest in the nation. Our government is famous for its corruptions at all levels; I would not be surprised if NJ held some sort of record for the most mayors sent to jail. Corzine's campaign promises were worthless, starting with the day after his inauguration, when he announced an increase in gas taxes. The shutdown means, essentially, that anything and everything that the state backs will cease. This includes the lottery, Atlantic City casinos, park services, welfare, etc. The part about being allowed to keep state workers working with no pay is incredulous to me. Who'd volunteer for that duty? Personally, I've had it with this state. We can't afford to live here at all; major companies that used to make NJ home are outsourcing or moving, making job searching futile for those like my husband, who are tradespeople dependent on corporations in need of the services. We've become a state of malls-ironic since retail doesn't exactly pay enough to afford living here. We're a distinctly divided state, between the haves and have-nots and the have-nots are growing faster. I can't even say with certainty that NJ is overly partisan; although Corzine and his predecessor, the famously disgraced McGreevey, are both Dems (neither of which I cared for at all) and NJ normally follows a Democratic majority. This is probably more of a rant than a debate(feel free, though to knock NJ, etc) ; just be glad if you don't reside here and if you do, check out your options of moving. Just don't use the toll roads-they're probably closed. __________________ Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

07-04-2006, 09:08 AM	#3 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	we've had our share of winners as governors in the fair state of nj... Anyone remember Christie's promises to get the insurance rates lowered? __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

07-04-2006, 09:32 AM	#4 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	Since NJ was where I ended up for 5 years in the beginning of my Northeastern adventures, I have this love-hate relationship with it. I have been following this as best as I can in the news from here. It more reminds me of the federal shutdown in the 90s over a similar issue or not balancing the budget. I do not really know the particulars about the partisan plays, I do understand that this is not much difference than the TWU-MTA shutdown before Christmas. You try to push the other side to blink and sometimes they call your bluff. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

07-04-2006, 07:19 PM	#10 (permalink)
djtestudo Baltimoron Location: Beeeeeautiful Bel Air, MD	If money is the root of all evil, politicians are the trunk and branches. __________________ "Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen." --Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

07-05-2006, 02:34 AM	#12 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	That was....quite possibly the best (serious) Post I have seen on this board.....thank you Host. __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

07-04-2006, 07:45 AM	#2 (permalink)
flstf Easy Rider Location: Moscow on the Ohio	I don't know anything about NJ politics but this seems like a rather chidish reaction by the governor. Instead of cutting spending to balance the budget it appears he wants to teach a lesson to those who do not agree with him. I guess he is going to take his ball and go home.

07-05-2006, 11:50 AM	#13 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	While I agree that internet and out of state sales are raindrops to a pond, they're enough to make various state governments take a serious look at attempts to collect their state sales tax. (NY state was even tracking down internet cigarette buyers to collect). If Corzine had the backing of even his own party in this, it wouldn't be an issue, but the fact is, he doesn't. And if those inside the club are against his tactics, those of us outside just can't muster up a lot of faith, no matter how well placed his heart is in this. In just three days of state shutdown, the ramifications are being felt across the state. As of today, casinos and racetracks are closed, losing billions in revenue; at reopening, there will be most likely layoffs, as stated in articles in today's Star Ledger and Home News. Because lottery tickets, other than scratchoffs, can not be sold, commissions to the stores that sell them, in addition to the moneys generated to the state, have dropped off considerably. Only criminal courts for bail hearings, etc. are in session, so people even required to appear in court to prevent arrest or eviction are in a quagmire. Motor Vehicle offices and stations are closed; there will be letters sent out or have been, extending expired licenses one month. Whitman's cuts and bond issues were, unfortunately, a bad timing on her part to say the least as she did not complete her term and the next elected governor made Jimmy Carter look like the greatest leader of the 20th century. None of this is new to New Jersey. Quite the contrary, it's become a futile lifestyle, a joke to political pundits and comedians for decades. As for the changes to educational instructional hiring, they did a hell of a lot of good-many districts' scores have dropped in the last decade; some inner city districts and not even inner city ones have been 'taken over' by the state and haven't fared any better since. Some irony in that is that, here, for example, the district only grandfathered in the most tenured, replaced everyone else with teachers, essentially raising the budget and NJ said our district is too rich to qualify for X amount of dollars..... *my head spins.... __________________ Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.