Like Father, Like Son - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

stevo · 05-05-2006, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Police labor union officials asked acting Chief Christopher McGaffin this afternoon to allow a Capitol Police officer to complete his investigation into an early-morning car crash involving Rep. Patrick Kennedy (D-R.I.), son of Sen. Ted Kennedy.

ROLL CALL reports: According to a letter sent by Officer Greg Baird, acting chairman of the USCP FOP, the wreck took place at approximately 2:45 a.m. Thursday when Kennedy's car, operating with its running lights turned off, narrowly missed colliding with a Capitol Police cruiser and smashed into a security barricade at First and C streets Southeast.

“The driver exited the vehicle and he was observed to be staggering,” Baird’s letter states. Officers approached the driver, who “declared to them he was a Congressman and was late to a vote. The House had adjourned nearly three hours before this incident. It was Congressman Patrick J. Kennedy from Rhode Island.”

Baird wrote that Capitol Police Patrol Division units, who are trained in driving under the influence cases, were not allowed to perform basic field sobriety tests on the Congressman. Instead, two sergeants, who also responded to the accident, proceeded to confer with the Capitol Police watch commander on duty and then “ordered all of the Patrol Division Units to leave the scene and that they were taking over.”

A source tells the DRUDGE REPORT: "It was apparent that the driver was intoxicated (stumbling) and claimed he was in a hurry to make a vote.

"When it became apparent who it was, instead of processing a normal DWI, the watch commander had the Patrol units clear the scene. The commander allowed other building officials drive Kennedy home."

This morning's incident comes just over two weeks after Kennedy was involved in a car accident in Rhode Island.

"I was involved in a traffic accident last night at First and C Street SE near the U.S. Capitol," Kennedy said in a written statement released by his office. "I consumed no alcohol prior to the incident. I will fully cooperate with the Capitol Police in whatever investigation they choose to undertake."

Developing...

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash3.htm

Who's suprised? I'm sure he expects to get away with it. In fact, it already appears he's gotten away with it. He made a statement somewhere attributing his actions to sleeping pills, what hell is that? Who drives around at 2:45 in the morning after taking sleeping pills? Hey, at least he didn't drive off a bridge, or you know, kill someone. So who here thinks he gets re-elected, and who here is suprised?

Redlemon · 05-05-2006, 05:42 AM

WebMD: Ambien linked to sleep eating.

Although not proven yet, there's also indications that people can 'sleep drive' under the influence of Ambien.

ubertuber · 05-05-2006, 05:46 AM

Personally, I'd prefer if they could treat these guys like ordinary citizens. You know, sobriety tests, going through the checkpoints, etc... But, apparently power has its privileges.

Patrick Kennedy Crashes Car Into Capitol Barrier

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Times

Capitol police officers said the handling of the case created at least an appearance that Mr. Kennedy had received special treatment. He denied the suggestion.

"At the time of the accident, I was instructed to park my car and was driven home by the United States Capitol police," Mr. Kennedy said. "At no time did I ask for any special consideration."

Whether he ASKED for special consideration has nothing to do with whether he GOT it. I seriously doubt that an ordinary citizen who crashed their car into a barrier at the capitol would be driven home by the police without a sobriety check.

I hope there will be an investigation. I know ambien can cause/allow people to do some extremely bizarre things. It is definitely powerful enough to impair driving ability. We'll see what happens...

Bill O'Rights · 05-05-2006, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubertuber

Whether he ASKED for special consideration has nothing to do with whether he GOT it.

To me...that part is key. I can guarantee that had I been the one to crash into a security barricade, after narrowly missing a collision with a police cruiser and driving with my lights off...at 2:45 a.m., got out of my car stumbling and slurring that I was late for work...I would have gotten a ride too. However...it wouldn't have been to my house.

samcol · 05-05-2006, 07:12 AM

Can't say I'm suprised, just more business as usual for politicians. Sounds similar to the Cheney hunting accident if you ask me.

When I got arrested for a DUI it would of been much easier to just park my car and get a free ride home. Of course, my ride was to the county lockup instead. Must be nice to have connections.

flstf · 05-05-2006, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevo

Who's suprised? I'm sure he expects to get away with it. In fact, it already appears he's gotten away with it. He made a statement somewhere attributing his actions to sleeping pills, what hell is that? Who drives around at 2:45 in the morning after taking sleeping pills? Hey, at least he didn't drive off a bridge, or you know, kill someone. So who here thinks he gets re-elected, and who here is suprised?

Of course I am not surprised. Everyone knows that there are special considerations for our ruling class. It is surprising when one of our polititians is actually held accountable for their actions.

Ustwo · 05-05-2006, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcol

Can't say I'm suprised, just more business as usual for politicians. Sounds similar to the Cheney hunting accident if you ask me.

Really, that was your first thought when Kennedy and DUI came to mind

Bill O'Rights · 05-05-2006, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Really, that was your first thought when Kennedy and DUI came to mind

Who said that it was his first thought? I think that he's just subtly pointing out that "priviledge" transcends political boundary. Liberal? Conservative? Shady is shady, and crooked is crooked.

Rekna · 05-05-2006, 07:27 AM

He did recieve special treatment and shouldn't have just like all the other incidents that happen with our politicians. The Cheney incident is a good example of it happening. He should have been giving a blood test to verify he didn't have any alcohol in him. However to say he was intoxicated like drudge does is a bit a bit premature because there is a very real possiblity it was meds. If drudge is going to come out saying that Kennedy was intoxicated then drudge should also be saying Cheney was intoxicated. In both incidents our ruling class got special treatment that they shouldn't have and a proper investigation was not allowed making it impossible for any criminal charges.

samcol · 05-05-2006, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Really, that was your first thought when Kennedy and DUI came to mind

No, but I wanted mention the Cheney accident to expose the doublethink of party politics. The same type of person that saw nothing wrong with Cheney's accident will see everything that's wrong with this accident, and vice versa.

Ustwo · 05-05-2006, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcol

No, but I wanted mention the Cheney accident to expose the doublethink of party politics. The same type of person that saw nothing wrong with Cheney's accident will see everything that's wrong with this accident, and vice versa.

One was a made up cover up by the left, the other is an obvious cover up of a DUI. Yea lots in common

I'm not saying that republicans haven't used clout to get out of situations you or I could not, I'm saying the two here are not alike at all in the least. Hunting accident =/ recklass drunk driving at 245 am.

ratbastid · 05-05-2006, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

One was a made up cover up by the left, the other is an obvious cover up of a DUI. Yea lots in common

I'm not saying that republicans haven't used clout to get out of situations you or I could not, I'm saying the two here are not alike at all in the least. Hunting accident =/ recklass drunk driving at 245 am.

True. One possibly drunken politician put a man in the hospital and damn near killed him. The other possibly drunken politician dented up a car.

I'm not excusing drunk driving (which may or may not be what this is). I'm pointing out that, in the hands of possibly drunken politicians, a car and a shotgun aren't really so dissimilar.

Rekna · 05-05-2006, 07:59 AM

Ustwo i didn't realize you were a judge and that you presided over the Cheny and Kennedy cases that didn't happen....

roachboy · 05-05-2006, 08:03 AM

so can someone explain to me--and i would prefer an explanation rather than a rehearsal of the various tiresome contents--what the deal is between the populist conservative sector and ted kennedy? particularly the obsession limbaugh and his ilk have with kenedy's pesonal life. i grew up in massachusetts and know the litany of stuff starting with chappaquidick--i know the various theories about it blah blah blah--so repeating this kind of stuff is not reaelly informative--but a consideration of WHY the right, the limbaugh-esque in particular, has such a seemingly bottomless obsession with this family is, well, a bit mysterious to me.

as for such content as there is in the op---i wonder if you folk had a fuck up kid who was busted for dui (and i am not saying that patrick kennedy is a fuck up by that--i dont know the guy--i would think that knowing the guy would be a precondition for rendering judgements about his character. wouldnt you? i mean in a sane world, or at least a more civil world)--how you would react if folk you didnt really know were to begin saying "like father like son"--i would imagine you'd find it kinda sleazy and really irritating. these assholes dont know me, who are they to talk, you;d likely say.

but maybe i'm wrong--maybe the overaching logic of the Group Hate overrdes such trivial concerns as whether you know patrick kenedy, and question that would follow if you dont--like on what basis are you making these judgements...

Aladdin Sane · 05-05-2006, 08:54 AM

The Kennedy's are seen as secular saints by the Democratic left. They are seen as drunks and hustlers by the Republican right. The truth is probably somewhere in between.

Patrick Kennedy is an addict. His family is ripe with addicts. Rush Limbaugh is an addict. I don't know about his family. In any case, addiction is serious business. Politics is beside the point.

samcol · 05-05-2006, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

so can someone explain to me--and i would prefer an explanation rather than a rehearsal of the various tiresome contents--what the deal is between the populist conservative sector and ted kennedy? particularly the obsession limbaugh and his ilk have with kenedy's pesonal life. i grew up in massachusetts and know the litany of stuff starting with chappaquidick--i know the various theories about it blah blah blah--so repeating this kind of stuff is not reaelly informative--but a consideration of WHY the right, the limbaugh-esque in particular, has such a seemingly bottomless obsession with this family is, well, a bit mysterious to me.

as for such content as there is in the op---i wonder if you folk had a fuck up kid who was busted for dui (and i am not saying that patrick kennedy is a fuck up by that--i dont know the guy--i would think that knowing the guy would be a precondition for rendering judgements about his character. wouldnt you? i mean in a sane world, or at least a more civil world)--how you would react if folk you didnt really know were to begin saying "like father like son"--i would imagine you'd find it kinda sleazy and really irritating. these assholes dont know me, who are they to talk, you;d likely say.

but maybe i'm wrong--maybe the overaching logic of the Group Hate overrdes such trivial concerns as whether you know patrick kenedy, and question that would follow if you dont--like on what basis are you making these judgements...

The Kennedy's just see like a nice scapegoat for Republicans. I'm sure Limbaugh would rather discuss how much Kennedy drinks than sit there trying to defend roving wiretaps, warrantless searches, open borders, bad intelligence, huge deficits, torture, Iraq quagmire, and approval ratings.

stevo · 05-05-2006, 12:01 PM

Just a few stories that have been published ont he internets. hmmm somehow his not drinking story just doesn't add up.

Quote:

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/05/05/D8HDQ9FG1.html
"I simply do not remember getting out of bed, being pulled over by the police, or being cited for three driving infractions," Kennedy said. "That's not how I want to live my life. And that's not how I want to represent the people of Rhode Island."

Quote:

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/05/05/D8HDNTT82.html
Kennedy's first statement, released by his press secretary:

"I was involved in a traffic incident last night at First and C Street SE near the US Capitol. I consumed no alcohol prior to the incident. I will fully cooperate with the Capitol Police in whatever investigation they choose to undertake."

___

Kennedy's full written statement:

"Last Tuesday, the Attending Physician of the United States Congress treated me for Gastroenteritis. The Attending Physician prescribed Phenergan, an anti-nausea medication, which in addition to treating Gastroenteritis, I now know can cause drowsiness and sedation.

Following the last series of votes on Wednesday evening, I returned to my home on Capitol Hill and took the prescribed amount of Phenergan and Ambien, which was also prescribed by the Attending Physician some time ago and I occasionally take to fall asleep. Some time around 2:45am, I drove the few blocks to the Capitol Complex believing I needed to vote. Apparently, I was disoriented from the medication. At that time, I was involved in a one-car incident in which my car hit the security barrier at the corner of 1st and C St., SE. At no time before the incident did I consume any alcohol.

At the time of the accident, I was instructed to park my car and was driven home by the United States Capitol Police. At no time did I ask for any special consideration, I simply complied with what the officers asked me to do.

I have the utmost respect for the United States Capitol Police and the job they do to keep Members of Congress and the Capitol Complex safe. I have contacted the Chief of Capitol Police and offered to meet with police representatives at their earliest convenience as I intend to cooperate fully with any investigation they choose to undertake."

Quote:

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRe...95&format=text
WASHINGTON -U.S. Rep. Patrick Kennedy insisted yesterday that he had consumed “no alcohol” before he slammed his Mustang convertible into a concrete barrier near his office, but a hostess at a popular Capitol Hill watering hole told the Herald she saw him drinking in the hours before the crash.

“He was drinking a little bit,” said the woman, who works at the Hawk & Dove and would not give her name.

Leaving his office late last night, Kennedy refused to say whether he’d been to the Hawk & Dove the night before.

So either he does remember and he is lying, or he doesn't remember and he is lying. I wonder how long until the credit card recipt from Hawk & Dove comes out.

flstf · 05-05-2006, 12:12 PM

I can see it now, a new law: VUI (Voting Under the Influence). On second thought maybe if they are drunk or on drugs they might screw up and vote something in our best interests.

samcol · 05-05-2006, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevo

Just a few stories that have been published ont he internets. hmmm somehow his not drinking story just doesn't add up.

So either he does remember and he is lying, or he doesn't remember and he is lying. I wonder how long until the credit card recipt from Hawk & Dove comes out.

I don't understand how you can insinuate that there was alcohol and a cover-up in this story and not similarly come to the same conclusions in the Cheney hunting thread. You could almost insert different names into this story and insert shotgun instead of vehicle, and you have the Cheney incident.

Rekna · 05-05-2006, 12:29 PM

At the same time there are a lot more people who work at that restraunt that are reporting they don't remember him there. If he had been their drinking enough to get sloppy drunk people would remember him, both employees and other patrons. Also this hostess said he drank a little. No nearly enough for sloppy drunk. I'm waiting for someone to come out and say he drank a lot which no one is saying. And as for lieing the republicans have taught us that lieing is ok as long as you aren't under oath. The way the articles i've read have sounded like is that if he had a drink he had 1 or maybe 2 hours before the incident which would have left his system by then. I'm not defending his actions if he knowingly decided to drive after consuming over the legal limit but there is a very real possiblity that his medication messed him up. Read some new articles on Ambien and you will see that confusion like this is one of the side effects.

maleficent · 05-05-2006, 12:30 PM

Well he's going into rehab now ... so whatever his problem is - he's dealing with it -- hopefully better than the multiple times his mother dealt with addictions...

politicophile · 05-05-2006, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallacy Files

Tu Quoque is a very common fallacy in which one attempts to defend oneself or another from criticism by turning the critique back against the accuser. This is a classic Red Herring since whether the accuser is guilty of the same, or a similar, wrong is irrelevant to the truth of the original charge. However, as a diversionary tactic, Tu Quoque can be very effective, since the accuser is put on the defensive, and frequently feels compelled to defend against the accusation.

Link

All this talk about Cheney shooting a guy while drunk is very interesting, but it has no bearing on the truth or falsity of the accusations that Kennedy was drunk at the time of his accident. Nonetheless, this thread has now deviated from the discussion at hand, focusing instead on the stupidity of the conservative posters and their inability to be consistent.

samcol · 05-05-2006, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by politicophile

Link

All this talk about Cheney shooting a guy while drunk is very interesting, but it has no bearing on the truth or falsity of the accusations that Kennedy was drunk at the time of his accident. Nonetheless, this thread has now deviated from the discussion at hand, focusing instead on the stupidity of the conservative posters and their inability to be consistent.

I know, but it's a great example of how blinded people are by party politics. Both of these individuals had their sobriety tests, delayed/omitted when it was obvious that both of them should have been tested immediately. If it is wrong when it happened to Kennedy, then it's also wrong when it happened to Cheney.

All I am asking is for politicians to be treated the same as everyone else. Being an apologist for your 'side' doesn't help anybody. The same lack of pressure on Cheney by conservatives is the same kind of thing that lets Kennedy get off the hook now. This a microcosm of the type of thing that allows widespread corruption in government.

Dilbert1234567 · 05-05-2006, 01:38 PM

my $.02

He was in a state that made him unable to drive the car safely, he endangered other people’s lives, and he should be punished accordingly. Whether it is cough syrup, sleeping pills, or alcohol, he should not have been on the road and should meet with the same consequences as the rest of us. Just because he is rich and famous should not give him special privileges. Shove him in the drunk tank and let ‘nature take its course’ he’ll think twice before he does it again.

cyrnel · 05-05-2006, 01:44 PM

Absolutely. He admitted to driving under the influence, even listing the meds. His driving was demonstrably impaired and there's probably cruiser video of his flailing about. Citations would be minimal at this point.

Dilbert1234567 · 05-05-2006, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyrnel

Absolutely. He admitted to driving under the influence, even listing the meds. His driving was demonstrably impaired and there's probably cruiser video of his flailing about. Citations would be minimal at this point.

I vote for drawn and quartered... but thats just me

Rekna · 05-05-2006, 03:01 PM

The problem is the drug ambien in this case. It can cause mass confussion where someone doesn't know what they are doing nor even realize that they are drugged up. If this is the case it would not be his fault as he was not in control of his actions nor did he lose control of himself through anything that would be considered neglagent (like drinking to much). From reading various news sources ambien sounds like a very dangerous drug for people to be taking for anything.

cyrnel · 05-05-2006, 03:23 PM

Rekna, it's a sleeping pill. The bottle is heavily labeled, I believe by uniform federal law. Pharmacists are required to state the effects and patients sign that they understand what they're told. While he might have skirted the normal information requirements given his privileged position, that doesn't relieve him of responsibilities.

What I'm hearing from him and his handlers are irresponsible excuses. Draw and quarter him. Not that I expect he'll get more than a little bad press.

Aladdin Sane · 05-05-2006, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna

The problem is the drug ambien in this case. It can cause mass confussion where someone doesn't know what they are doing nor even realize that they are drugged up. If this is the case it would not be his fault as he was not in control of his actions nor did he lose control of himself through anything that would be considered neglagent (like drinking to much). From reading various news sources ambien sounds like a very dangerous drug for people to be taking for anything.

The problem is not the drug. The problem is the guy taking the drug.
The guy is a certified addict. He's been in treatment before and he's going back in today.
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsar...src=rss&rpc=22

ratbastid · 05-05-2006, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by politicophile

Link

All this talk about Cheney shooting a guy while drunk is very interesting, but it has no bearing on the truth or falsity of the accusations that Kennedy was drunk at the time of his accident. Nonetheless, this thread has now deviated from the discussion at hand, focusing instead on the stupidity of the conservative posters and their inability to be consistent.

I guess it would be a fine example of Tu Quoque for me to point out that, until the Bush Honeymoon ended a few months ago, the typical Republican response to criticisms of the administration began with the words, "Oh yeah well Clinton..."? Where was the citing of logical fallacies then?

ubertuber · 05-05-2006, 04:39 PM

To be fair, someone very close to me had an incident of "sleeping action" while taking ambien. It was quite bizarre, as it involved sending an email (complete with mostly correct spelling and successful addressing) that detailed topics that would never have been addressed in an uncompromised state of mind. The next day, she had no memory of doing this. This involves completing a fairly intricate task without full control, inhibition, or awareness of doing so.

I'm not making excuses for the guy - clearly one has to own up for one's actions, especially when impaired. However, ambien is not "just sleeping pills". Despite Kennedy's past problems, I believe that it is possible those prescpription drugs (in recommended amounts) were the only things in his system.

It will be interesting to see if any consequences arise from his actions.

cyrnel · 05-05-2006, 05:06 PM

Uber, I suppose "sleeping pill" has been diluted through over-use. Ambien is classified as a short-term sleeping aid. It isn't OTC nonsense, but an honest to goodness controlled med. As with all sleep aids it can be addictive and has its own set of side effects and interactions, which is why it's controlled in the first place and carries all the warnings. The nice thing about it vs. Trazodone, etc. is that it has few next-day effects. You can actually accomplish something the next morning vs. feeling a monster hangover. Honestly, it doesn't do much for me that half a beer wouldn't but I still wouldn't take it and drive.

I agree he could have zoned on the combination of otherwise legal meds. But unless he was slipped a mickey or shielded from the warnings he should get equal treatment. (I think we're in agreement there.) Rum and beer would also cause a problem for a driver, and I don't see many drivers blaming the bottlers for their DUIs. He has known addiction issues and needs treatment, plus whatever stupid tax for making poor choices. Sounds like he's signed up for something, which is good. I hope it isn't all for show.

Dilbert1234567 · 05-05-2006, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyrnel

...Draw and quarter him...

woohoo 2 votes! 3 and its a legally binding decision right?
...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubertuber

To be fair, someone very close to me had an incident of "sleeping action" while taking ambien. It was quite bizarre, as it involved sending an email (complete with mostly correct spelling and successful addressing) that detailed topics that would never have been addressed in an uncompromised state of mind. The next day, she had no memory of doing this. This involves completing a fairly intricate task without full control, inhibition, or awareness of doing so.

I’ve had an experience similar, I gave blood and they cleaned my arm with iodine. It turns out that I am allergic to iodine. I did not form memories for the next day, none, I have no recollection of the day. I helped a friend move to a new house. I don’t remember anything, but me friends tell me that I new that I was not ok to drive in my state. It all comes down to personal responsibility, knowing when your all right and when your not.

loganmule · 05-05-2006, 06:32 PM

RHIP, as they say. Just as politics at the local level mirrors national politics, so does the ability of an influential person or "favored son" to get preferred treatment in a situation where others don't. The only difference is that national level favoritism is news.

I had a friend, a local attorney, who got hammered a lot and sometimes wound up off of the road in his car. The rule was "no harm no foul" and since he never hit anyone, the police always just saw to it that he got home. He never was charged, and it was never news, beyond rumor among the legal community.

Is either instance fair? Obviously not, but that's the way the system works...money, power, and influence offer opportunities for those who have them.

SteelyLoins · 05-05-2006, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlemon

WebMD: Ambien linked to sleep eating.

Although not proven yet, there's also indications that people can 'sleep drive' under the influence of Ambien.

Let's see if he can stay awake during detox. Not only does his admission reveal the glaring lie he told earlier, but it will be interesting to see what the people who have been clamoring for Rush Limbaugh to be locked up will have to say now.

(Couldn't link to this because it was on AOL.)

Quote:

Patrick Kennedy Entering Rehab for Pills
Rhode Island Lawmaker Says He Can't Remember Accident
By ANDREW MIGA, AP

WASHINGTON (May 5) - U.S. Rep. Patrick Kennedy said Friday he was entering treatment for addiction to prescription pain medication, a decision made after a highly publicized car crash near the Capitol that the congressman said he cannot recall.

Kennedy, a Rhode Island Democrat, said he would seek immediate treatment at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota.

He announced his decision to reporters at a Capitol Hill news conference. He walked in alone, gripped the lectern, cleared his throat and began haltingly.

Kennedy, who has struggled with addiction and depression, said he had checked into the Mayo Clinic over the Christmas holidays and returned to Congress "reinvigorated and healthy."

"Of course, in every recovery, each day has its ups and downs, but I have been strong, focused and productive since my return," Kennedy said.

The congressman said he again became concerned about his condition after the Thursday morning car accident.

"Of course, in every recovery, each day has its ups and downs."
-Patrick Kennedy

"I simply do not remember getting out of bed, being pulled over by the police, or being cited for three driving infractions," Kennedy said. "That's not how I want to live my life. And that's not how I want to represent the people of Rhode Island."

As he was leaving the room, Kennedy was asked whether he might resign, and he shook his head no. "I need to stay in the fight," he said. He did not take other questions.

Kennedy - nephew of the late President John F. Kennedy - was elected to Congress in 1994.

The congressman's father, Sen. Edward Kennedy , a Massachusetts Democrat, issued a statement saying he was proud of his son for admitting his problem and taking steps to correct it.

"He has taken full responsibility for events that occurred ... and he will continue to cooperate fully with any investigation," the elder Kennedy said.

The younger Kennedy said he hoped that his "openness today and in the past, and my acknowledgment that I need help, will give others the courage to get help if they need it."

Kennedy was cited for three traffic violations after his early morning car crash Thursday near the Capitol, according to a police report.

The report by a U.S. Capitol Police officer said Kennedy drove his green 1997 Ford Mustang convertible into a security barrier near the Capitol shortly before 3 a.m. Thursday, and that Kennedy had red, watery eyes, slurred speech and unsteady balance.

Kennedy had said in a statement Thursday that he had taken a sleeping pill and another drug that can cause drowsiness, but had not been drinking alcohol before the accident. "Apparently, I was disoriented from the medication," Kennedy said.

The police report described Kennedy as "ability impaired," and listed alcohol influence as a contributing circumstance in the crash.

Louis P. Cannon, president of the Washington chapter of the Fraternal Order of Police, who was not on the scene, said the congressman had appeared intoxicated when he crashed his car. The officers involved in the accident were instructed by an official "above the rank of patrolman" to take Kennedy home and no sobriety tests were conducted at the scene, Cannon said.

"I never asked for any preferential treatment," Kennedy said to reporters as he left his congressional office Thursday night.

It was Kennedy's second auto crash in three weeks. His car struck the passenger rear door of a second car while Kennedy was making a left turn from a roadway into a pharmacy, according to a police report on the April 15 accident. No injuries were reported in the accident in Portsmouth, Rhode Island, and Kennedy was not cited.

In Washington, Kennedy, 38, told the police officer he was "headed to the Capitol to make a vote," the report said. He was cited for failure to keep in the proper lane, traveling at "unreasonable speed" and failing to "give full time and attention" to operating his vehicle.

Kennedy spokeswoman Robin Costello acknowledged the police report but said in an e-mailed message: "The congressman has not been presented with those traffic tickets."

At about 2:47 a.m., police observed Kennedy 's car, with no headlights on, swerve into the wrong lane and strike a curb. Kennedy nearly hit a police car, the report said, and the officer in the cruiser was forced to use evasive maneuvers to avoid a collision.

The cruiser put on its emergency flashers and tried to pull Kennedy over, but the congressman did not respond. He continued at a slower speed before colliding head-on with a security barrier, according to the report.

Capitol Police had no comment Friday beyond a statement posted on their Web site, said spokeswoman Sgt. Kimberly Schneider. That statement said, "The United States Capitol Police are continuing to investigate."

Kennedy said that he had gone home Wednesday evening after work and taken "the prescribed amount" of Phenergan, a prescription anti-nausea drug that can cause drowsiness, and Ambien, a sleep medication. But he said he consumed no alcohol before the crash.

The attending physician for Congress had prescribed Phenergan to treat Kennedy 's gastroenteritis, an inflammation of the stomach and intestines. According to the drug's label, Phenergan can increase the effects of sleep medicines such as Ambien.

Ambien comes with a warning to patients that it can cause confusion, strange behavior and hallucinations. Also, it is to be taken only when patients have time for a full eight hours of sleep, allowing its effects to wear off, according to its Food and Drug Administration-approved label.

The congressman was treated at a drug rehabilitation clinic before he went to Providence College and has been praised in the past for his openness.

Associated Press writer Andrew Taylor contributed to this report.

05-05-06 15:31 EDT

Rekna · 05-06-2006, 06:35 AM

Here is an interesting read on Ambien and documented cases of "Zombie" behavior. http://www.wislawjournal.com/archive...26/ambien.html

Quote:

Ambien users wake up, smell the lawsuits

By Nora Lockwood Tooher
Dolan Media Newswires

Janet Makinen, a Florida housewife, was prescribed Ambien in 1998 for insomnia. About two weeks later, she began walking in her sleep to her kitchen and devouring food.

It didn’t matter what kind of food, either. Makinen, 55, of Dade City, Fla., wolfed down raw eggs, uncooked rice, cans of vegetables, loaves of bread, and bags of chips and candy.

An hour after her binge-eating, she’d wake up vomiting.

Makinen gained so much weight from the nocturnal feedings that she ballooned from a size 1 to a size 12. She still suffers from stomach problems, including an ulcer.

She stopped taking Ambien in 2005. And now she’s suing Sanofi-Aventis, the manufacturer of the popular prescription sleeping medication.

A class-action suit filed March 6 in U.S. District Court in the Southern District of New York claims that Ambien caused Makinen and hundreds of other users to enter into trance-like states in which they drove cars, binged on food and engaged in other activities they have no memory of.

The suit accuses Sanofi-Aventis of inadequately warning users of the dangers of amnesic sleep-eating, sleepwalking and sleep-driving.

New York attorney Susan Chana Lask, who filed the suit, said that in addition to damages, she wants the manufacturer to provide stronger warnings about Ambien’s potential dangers.

As of March 22, about 500 other plaintiffs had joined the suit.

Ambien was introduced to the market in 1993, but its sales have soared in the past few years — due mainly to an intensive consumer advertising campaign.

Last year, an estimated 26.5 million prescriptions were dispensed for Ambien — more than double the number written in 2001 — making it the nation’s best-selling prescription sleeping pill.

Lask said she first heard about the phenomenon of amnesic sleep-eating in an e-mail from Makinen.

“I thought it was just crazy,” Lask recalled. “Who sleep-eats?”

But she mentioned the e-mail to her legal assistant, who said that she, too, had done some somnambulistic food-foraging.

That’s when Lask began researching the possible side effects of Ambien, which turn out to include sleep-eating, sleepwalking and sleep-driving.

She discovered bizarre behavior is not uncommon: “They cook full meals, but they’re disgusting meals. They’re like zombies. They’re just shoving things in their mouths. It’s this carnal thing.”

And the strange behavior that some users exhibit in their sleepwalking states occasionally even lands them in jail — much to their surprise, since amnesia is another documented side effect.

Other plaintiffs named in the class-action suit include:

Judith Renee Lasswell, a Navy lieutenant in Florida who was arrested for shoplifting DVDs and a candle from her naval base. She does not recall the alleged thefts.

Her security clearance has been revoked, and she faces larceny charges and dishonorable discharge from the Navy.

Christina Brothers, a financial analyst who was prescribed Ambien for insomnia in May 2005. After three days of taking her prescribed dose, she woke up on the concrete floor of a jail cell. Brothers learned from a police report that she got out of bed around 6 a.m., left her house, drove her mother’s car into a parked vehicle, left the scene and ran into another vehicle. She left that scene as well, returned home, had a chat with her mother and was arrested in her bedroom later that morning.
She remembers neither the accident, nor anything else from the morning of her arrest.

Kathleen Callahan, a New York lab technician who claims there were mornings when she found her refrigerator door open, crumbs on the floor, chocolate icing on her hands and a ring of chocolate around her mouth. One morning she woke up in bed with her hands in a potato chip box.

Callahan also alleges she was twice sexually assaulted by a neighbor while in a sleepwalking state.

One New York pharmaceutical defense lawyer specializing in class actions, who asked not to be named, said he thinks it is unlikely the New York case will proceed as a class action, because physicians receive information about a medication from many different sources and it could be difficult to isolate the communications physicians had with the manufacturer.

Following the recent news reports, Sanofi-Aventis issued a statement saying that sleepwalking occurs in about 4 percent of the adult population, and that while “events of sleepwalking have occurred during treatment with Ambien, these instances cannot be systemically linked to the product.”

It also said that a recent company analysis concluded that the current prescribing information is accurate: “Somnambulism is a possible rare adverse event.”

The manufacturer also reminded users that Ambien should only be taken when the user can have eight hours of uninterrupted sleep, and that it should never be taken with alcohol.

The Food and Drug Administration says the drug’s current warnings are adequate.

David Benjamin, a toxicologist in Newton, Mass., said that while the strange side effects of Ambien are very believable, a product liability suit against the manufacturer faces an uphill challenge.

“The warnings say take the drug while you’re in bed, and don’t take it while you’re driving,” he noted.

That could make it difficult to prove a “failure to warn” claim, according to Benjamin.

The New York pharmaceutical defense lawyer suggested that Sanofi-Aventis’ possible liability for its warnings about the risk of sleepwalking may hinge on whether the company had documented the risk of Ambien-caused sleepwalking, and withheld it from physicians and consumers.

Benjamin also said that Ambien-impaired individuals arrested for criminal behavior could argue a “lack of intent,” claiming they had no intent to drive a car or engage in illegal activity.

On The Road Again

Attorneys who specialize in drunk-driving cases are already running into Ambien cases.

William Head, an attorney in Atlanta who specializes in DUI defense, has defended several drivers who landed in jail after sleep-driving episodes.

“You’re seeing people with not one blemish on their driving history suddenly charged with a series of ridiculous driving situations,” he said. “They don’t know they’re driving.”

Head recently defended a man in Decatur, Ga., who had several drinks and took two Ambien. The last thing he remembers is watching David Letterman on television.

He was arrested on multiple driving charges, including driving on the wrong side of the road. But a judge was unconvinced that Ambien was the cause of the man’s bizarre behavior, since he had also consumed alcohol. As a result, Head’s client was convicted of driving under the influence.

In a new case, Head is representing a Florida businessman who took Ambien but hadn’t consumed any alcohol or other medications. When Fulton County, Ga. police pulled him over for erratic driving, the man’s pants were down around his ankles.

“He took it [Ambien] in the morning,” Head said. “The next thing, he’s driving in the broad daylight with his pants down.”

Head said he plans on arguing the case before a jury, which he hopes to educate about the risk of sleep-driving while using Ambien.

“The key to me in these cases is if the person taking the medication had no prior episodes of sleepwalking or sleep-driving, then that’s a very good case,” Head said.

“Because [Ambien’s] packaging materials in no way indicate the symptoms of getting behind the wheel and not knowing you’re there.”

There has also been at least one Ambien-related airline arrest.

Sean Joyce, a British painting contractor, was on a flight from Charlotte, N.C. to London last July. He had taken an Ambien pill and drunk several glasses of wine when he got up, grabbed a young woman sitting next to him, started yelling and ripped his shirt off.

Joyce reportedly threatened to kill himself and everyone on the plane. He was handcuffed and the plane was diverted to Boston.

“He woke up in a jail cell in East Boston with absolutely no memory of what happened,” said Michael C. Andrews, an attorney in Boston who defended Joyce.

Andrews convinced federal authorities that Joyce’s aggressive behavior and amnesia were caused by Ambien.

Under a plea agreement, Joyce was sentenced to the five days he had already served.

Twilight Zone

Benjamin, the Massachusetts toxicologist, likened the bizarre effects of Ambien in certain individuals to those of benzodiazepines, such as Halcion and Xanax.

“Somehow, they affect the brain adversely and people have this dissociative reaction where they do weird things that they don’t remember,” he said.

“We’ve known about these types of effects for date-rape drugs,” he said. “This is a very, very similar reaction.”

Ambien is classified as a non-benzodiazepine hypnotic.

William R. Johnson, a chemist at the Wisconsin State Laboratory of Hygiene, who studied Ambien-impaired drivers in Wisconsin over a six-year period, said it’s not clear why Ambien causes sleepwalking in some users. But he theorized that they may partially awaken after four or five hours of sleep.

“When you get beyond that four-hour period, in some people the medication loses some of its effect and it allows them to become semi-awake, but not conscious,” he said.

Sanofi-Aventis has recently released a timed-release sleeping pill, AmbienCR, aimed at maintaining a full eight hours of sleep.

Life In The Slow Lane

Many states don’t test for Ambien when making impaired-driving arrests. But in some state toxicology labs, Ambien is among the top 10 drugs found in impaired drivers.

The Wisconsin study identified Ambien in the bloodstreams of 187 drivers arrested from 1999 through 2004. More than half of the Ambien-impaired drivers also tested positive for alcohol, and nearly half tested positive for other drugs, including benzodiazepines such as Valium, Xanax and Klonopin.

In 21 cases where Ambien was the only drug found, driving behavior ranged from hitting light poles to running over curbs to driving in the wrong lane.

The main characteristic of Ambien-impaired drivers was that they drove well below the speed limit and kept driving until they hit something, according to Johnson.

“The slow speed was very common, and essentially driving until you couldn’t drive anymore. They tended to run into a stationary object, like a light pole or parked car,” he said.

In five cases in which no alcohol or other drugs were found, Johnson said, police reported that the Ambien-impaired drivers shared the same zombie-like characteristics.

“They seemed very much disoriented; their eyes wouldn’t focus on individuals,” he said. “They would just look right through a person.”

This article originally appeared in Lawyers Weekly USA, a sister publication of Wisconsin Law Journal.

Here is an interesting question. If a person takes a prescribed drug in the recommended dose and it causes them to lose conscious thought and behave erratically. Should that person be held liable for their actions?

loganmule · 05-06-2006, 10:36 AM

According to Kennedy's latest statement, a woman was with him that night (unidentified), who tried to keep him from leaving and also could confirm that he had not been drinking. Sure...that's the ticket...can't wait to hear about all the other exculpating "details" of the evening, as they continue to come back to him.

Kennedy's plan is to ride out the media storm and wait until the news networks find something else to focus on. To do that he has to consistently deny/lie about "intentionally" operating a motor vehicle while impaired, since that's a crime (and Rekna, actual or constructive knowledge of one's own impairment is the "intent" element of the criminal offence which must be proven).

Alcohol, in combination with any sedative or hypnotic drugs is sufficiently known to cause impairment that a criminal case could probably be made out against him, particularly with Kennedy's background of binge drinking and substance abuse. As long as he is able to keep out any concrete evidence of alcohol consumption, the posssibility of an idiosyncratic response to Phenergan and Ambien is the "reasonable doubt" that justifies a "no action" determination by the district attorney's office.

Without a blood sample (and to my knowledge there was none), he skates, simple as that.

Hardknock · 05-06-2006, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Really, that was your first thought when Kennedy and DUI came to mind

It was mine....

The special treatment stands out more than anything else.

05-05-2006, 05:42 AM	#2 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	WebMD: Ambien linked to sleep eating. Although not proven yet, there's also indications that people can 'sleep drive' under the influence of Ambien. __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

05-05-2006, 08:03 AM	#14 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	so can someone explain to me--and i would prefer an explanation rather than a rehearsal of the various tiresome contents--what the deal is between the populist conservative sector and ted kennedy? particularly the obsession limbaugh and his ilk have with kenedy's pesonal life. i grew up in massachusetts and know the litany of stuff starting with chappaquidick--i know the various theories about it blah blah blah--so repeating this kind of stuff is not reaelly informative--but a consideration of WHY the right, the limbaugh-esque in particular, has such a seemingly bottomless obsession with this family is, well, a bit mysterious to me. as for such content as there is in the op---i wonder if you folk had a fuck up kid who was busted for dui (and i am not saying that patrick kennedy is a fuck up by that--i dont know the guy--i would think that knowing the guy would be a precondition for rendering judgements about his character. wouldnt you? i mean in a sane world, or at least a more civil world)--how you would react if folk you didnt really know were to begin saying "like father like son"--i would imagine you'd find it kinda sleazy and really irritating. these assholes dont know me, who are they to talk, you;d likely say. but maybe i'm wrong--maybe the overaching logic of the Group Hate overrdes such trivial concerns as whether you know patrick kenedy, and question that would follow if you dont--like on what basis are you making these judgements... __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

05-05-2006, 08:54 AM	#15 (permalink)
Aladdin Sane Degenerate Location: San Marvelous	The Kennedy's are seen as secular saints by the Democratic left. They are seen as drunks and hustlers by the Republican right. The truth is probably somewhere in between. Patrick Kennedy is an addict. His family is ripe with addicts. Rush Limbaugh is an addict. I don't know about his family. In any case, addiction is serious business. Politics is beside the point. __________________ Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

05-05-2006, 12:30 PM	#21 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	Well he's going into rehab now ... so whatever his problem is - he's dealing with it -- hopefully better than the multiple times his mother dealt with addictions... __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

05-05-2006, 01:38 PM	#24 (permalink)
Dilbert1234567 Devils Cabana Boy Location: Central Coast CA	my $.02 He was in a state that made him unable to drive the car safely, he endangered other people’s lives, and he should be punished accordingly. Whether it is cough syrup, sleeping pills, or alcohol, he should not have been on the road and should meet with the same consequences as the rest of us. Just because he is rich and famous should not give him special privileges. Shove him in the drunk tank and let ‘nature take its course’ he’ll think twice before he does it again. __________________ Donate Blood! "Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen

05-05-2006, 07:12 AM	#5 (permalink)
samcol Junkie Location: Indiana	Can't say I'm suprised, just more business as usual for politicians. Sounds similar to the Cheney hunting accident if you ask me. When I got arrested for a DUI it would of been much easier to just park my car and get a free ride home. Of course, my ride was to the county lockup instead. Must be nice to have connections.

05-05-2006, 07:27 AM	#9 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	He did recieve special treatment and shouldn't have just like all the other incidents that happen with our politicians. The Cheney incident is a good example of it happening. He should have been giving a blood test to verify he didn't have any alcohol in him. However to say he was intoxicated like drudge does is a bit a bit premature because there is a very real possiblity it was meds. If drudge is going to come out saying that Kennedy was intoxicated then drudge should also be saying Cheney was intoxicated. In both incidents our ruling class got special treatment that they shouldn't have and a proper investigation was not allowed making it impossible for any criminal charges.

05-05-2006, 07:59 AM	#13 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	Ustwo i didn't realize you were a judge and that you presided over the Cheny and Kennedy cases that didn't happen....

05-05-2006, 12:12 PM	#18 (permalink)
flstf Easy Rider Location: Moscow on the Ohio	I can see it now, a new law: VUI (Voting Under the Influence). On second thought maybe if they are drunk or on drugs they might screw up and vote something in our best interests.

05-05-2006, 12:29 PM	#20 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	At the same time there are a lot more people who work at that restraunt that are reporting they don't remember him there. If he had been their drinking enough to get sloppy drunk people would remember him, both employees and other patrons. Also this hostess said he drank a little. No nearly enough for sloppy drunk. I'm waiting for someone to come out and say he drank a lot which no one is saying. And as for lieing the republicans have taught us that lieing is ok as long as you aren't under oath. The way the articles i've read have sounded like is that if he had a drink he had 1 or maybe 2 hours before the incident which would have left his system by then. I'm not defending his actions if he knowingly decided to drive after consuming over the legal limit but there is a very real possiblity that his medication messed him up. Read some new articles on Ambien and you will see that confusion like this is one of the side effects.

05-05-2006, 01:44 PM	#25 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	Absolutely. He admitted to driving under the influence, even listing the meds. His driving was demonstrably impaired and there's probably cruiser video of his flailing about. Citations would be minimal at this point. __________________ There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

05-05-2006, 03:01 PM	#27 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	The problem is the drug ambien in this case. It can cause mass confussion where someone doesn't know what they are doing nor even realize that they are drugged up. If this is the case it would not be his fault as he was not in control of his actions nor did he lose control of himself through anything that would be considered neglagent (like drinking to much). From reading various news sources ambien sounds like a very dangerous drug for people to be taking for anything.

05-05-2006, 03:23 PM	#28 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	Rekna, it's a sleeping pill. The bottle is heavily labeled, I believe by uniform federal law. Pharmacists are required to state the effects and patients sign that they understand what they're told. While he might have skirted the normal information requirements given his privileged position, that doesn't relieve him of responsibilities. What I'm hearing from him and his handlers are irresponsible excuses. Draw and quarter him. Not that I expect he'll get more than a little bad press. __________________ There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

05-05-2006, 04:39 PM	#31 (permalink)
ubertuber spudly Location: Ellay	To be fair, someone very close to me had an incident of "sleeping action" while taking ambien. It was quite bizarre, as it involved sending an email (complete with mostly correct spelling and successful addressing) that detailed topics that would never have been addressed in an uncompromised state of mind. The next day, she had no memory of doing this. This involves completing a fairly intricate task without full control, inhibition, or awareness of doing so. I'm not making excuses for the guy - clearly one has to own up for one's actions, especially when impaired. However, ambien is not "just sleeping pills". Despite Kennedy's past problems, I believe that it is possible those prescpription drugs (in recommended amounts) were the only things in his system. It will be interesting to see if any consequences arise from his actions. __________________ Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

05-05-2006, 05:06 PM	#32 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	Uber, I suppose "sleeping pill" has been diluted through over-use. Ambien is classified as a short-term sleeping aid. It isn't OTC nonsense, but an honest to goodness controlled med. As with all sleep aids it can be addictive and has its own set of side effects and interactions, which is why it's controlled in the first place and carries all the warnings. The nice thing about it vs. Trazodone, etc. is that it has few next-day effects. You can actually accomplish something the next morning vs. feeling a monster hangover. Honestly, it doesn't do much for me that half a beer wouldn't but I still wouldn't take it and drive. I agree he could have zoned on the combination of otherwise legal meds. But unless he was slipped a mickey or shielded from the warnings he should get equal treatment. (I think we're in agreement there.) Rum and beer would also cause a problem for a driver, and I don't see many drivers blaming the bottlers for their DUIs. He has known addiction issues and needs treatment, plus whatever stupid tax for making poor choices. Sounds like he's signed up for something, which is good. I hope it isn't all for show. __________________ There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

05-05-2006, 06:32 PM	#34 (permalink)
loganmule Junkie Location: midwest	RHIP, as they say. Just as politics at the local level mirrors national politics, so does the ability of an influential person or "favored son" to get preferred treatment in a situation where others don't. The only difference is that national level favoritism is news. I had a friend, a local attorney, who got hammered a lot and sometimes wound up off of the road in his car. The rule was "no harm no foul" and since he never hit anyone, the police always just saw to it that he got home. He never was charged, and it was never news, beyond rumor among the legal community. Is either instance fair? Obviously not, but that's the way the system works...money, power, and influence offer opportunities for those who have them.

05-06-2006, 10:36 AM	#37 (permalink)
loganmule Junkie Location: midwest	According to Kennedy's latest statement, a woman was with him that night (unidentified), who tried to keep him from leaving and also could confirm that he had not been drinking. Sure...that's the ticket...can't wait to hear about all the other exculpating "details" of the evening, as they continue to come back to him. Kennedy's plan is to ride out the media storm and wait until the news networks find something else to focus on. To do that he has to consistently deny/lie about "intentionally" operating a motor vehicle while impaired, since that's a crime (and Rekna, actual or constructive knowledge of one's own impairment is the "intent" element of the criminal offence which must be proven). Alcohol, in combination with any sedative or hypnotic drugs is sufficiently known to cause impairment that a criminal case could probably be made out against him, particularly with Kennedy's background of binge drinking and substance abuse. As long as he is able to keep out any concrete evidence of alcohol consumption, the posssibility of an idiosyncratic response to Phenergan and Ambien is the "reasonable doubt" that justifies a "no action" determination by the district attorney's office. Without a blood sample (and to my knowledge there was none), he skates, simple as that.