Do YOU think Iran is developing nuclear weapons? - Page 6 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Willravel · 03-01-2008, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

I'm hoping this was merely a slip of the tongue.

If I were a religious man, that'd be my prayer. Unfortunately, I'm a pragmatist. I suspect that the translation is correct and that this particular minister is a fanatic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

But in thinking of the balance (lack thereof?) of power in the Middle East, I'm moving toward the opinion that Iran would be making huge compromises on their national security by not developing nuclear weapons. Unless there were a true and global non-proliferation treaty and disarmament agreement, can you really blame them?

They signed the NPT. They're actually sacrificing their safety because they don't want to break the treaty. Their standing military is probably the strongest of all the Arab Nations, and I suspect they're banking on a combination of that and the fact that they know their allies would help if they were attacked (which probably isn't true).

Baraka_Guru · 03-01-2008, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

They signed the NPT. They're actually sacrificing their safety because they don't want to break the treaty. Their standing military is probably the strongest of all the Arab Nations, and I suspect they're banking on a combination of that and the fact that they know their allies would help if they were attacked (which probably isn't true).

I know they've agreed to the NPT. They've also ratified the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) and the Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention (BWC). (Israel has done none of these things.)

If the NPT were ratified globally, and disarmament was something assured, Iran could rest easy. In other words, Iran has little reason to rest easy in regards to nuclear weapons in the Middle East and Asia.

Willravel · 03-01-2008, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

I know they've agreed to the NPT. They've also ratified the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) and the Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention (BWC). (Israel has done none of these things.)

If the NPT were ratified globally, and disarmament was something assured, Iran could rest easy. In other words, Iran has little reason to rest easy in regards to nuclear weapons in the Middle East and Asia.

Amen. I'd feel a lot safer if no one had nukes, especially Israel.

Willravel · 03-12-2008, 12:58 PM

http://www.inteldaily.com/?c=173&a=5479
If you have friends and family in Iran, it would seem now would probably be the time to recommend that they take a vacation outside their country. I'd recommend Europe.

Baraka_Guru · 03-12-2008, 05:13 PM

Is this as bad as some are making it out to be, or are they exaggerating? They seriously aren't thinking of going to war with Iran are they?

Willravel · 03-12-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

Is this as bad as some are making it out to be, or are they exaggerating? They seriously aren't thinking of going to war with Iran are they?

I asked a similar question in 2003.

Seriously, it's a very distinct possibility.

Baraka_Guru · 03-12-2008, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

I asked a similar question in 2003.

Seriously, it's a very distinct possibility.

But is this as big an indication as people are saying? How significant is this "resignation".... really?

Tully Mars · 03-12-2008, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

Is this as bad as some are making it out to be, or are they exaggerating? They seriously aren't thinking of going to war with Iran are they?

I see the Adm. William Fallon resignation as a really bad sign.

I'm with Will, know anybody you like or love who lives in Iran? I suggest advising them to pack their bags while they still can.

Baraka_Guru · 03-12-2008, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

I'm with Will, know anybody you like or love who lives in Iran? I suggest advising them to pack their bags while they still can.

For everyone else: Liquidate all you can and put your money into oil and gold stocks, and then eventually shift the portfolio to include alternative energy stocks.

(That is, if it's as serious as it is.)

Willravel · 03-12-2008, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

But is this as big an indication as people are saying? How significant is this "resignation".... really?

The Eisenhower nuclear aircraft carrier strike force has departed for stationing off Iran, joining forces already in place there, and loaded to the brim with strike aircraft, Tomahawk missiles, and even nuclear weapons.
When you consider this with the resignation of Fallon, we have probably the clearest indication of an attack that we're going to get.

Baraka_Guru · 03-12-2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

The Eisenhower nuclear aircraft carrier strike force has departed for stationing off Iran, joining forces already in place there, and loaded to the brim with strike aircraft, Tomahawk missiles, and even nuclear weapons.
When you consider this with the resignation of Fallon, we have probably the clearest indication of an attack that we're going to get.

Didn't Eisenhower overthrow Iran once already?

Willravel · 03-12-2008, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

Didn't Eisenhower overthrow Iran once already?

History really does repeat itself. A democratically elected government is overthrown because it's not bending over for the US. If this time is anything like last time, we'll instal an insane religious leader who we think is our puppet.

Tully Mars · 03-12-2008, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

The Eisenhower nuclear aircraft carrier strike force has departed for stationing off Iran, joining forces already in place there, and loaded to the brim with strike aircraft, Tomahawk missiles, and even nuclear weapons.
When you consider this with the resignation of Fallon, we have probably the clearest indication of an attack that we're going to get.

Let's see bush has how many months left in office. No wait, make that we have how many months left until the election? So a national crisis and war would play directly into the standard GOP strategy, right? I predict if the Dems don't completely self destruct by, let's say, July... then Iran is screwed, IMHO.

BTW- I spent a month on Diego Gracia, BIOT one week. Still have the t-shirt to prove it.

According to my shirt's front:

Every week is chicken choking week on Diego Gracia

Per it's back:

Diego Gracia- Where men are men and donkey's know it!

Gotta love military humor.

Willravel · 03-12-2008, 06:18 PM

Everyone says Diego is where they keep the Stargate.

I've contacted several people about getting the fuck out. I've also contacted locals about staging massive demonstrations. This Saturday I'll go to the CoS protest and let them know their priorities are all fucked up.

Baraka_Guru · 03-12-2008, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

This Saturday I'll go to the CoS protest and let them know their priorities are all fucked up.

Just tell them they're going into Iran for their antidepressants.

* * * * *

I'll be keeping my eye on the American media to see if we get the same patterns we've seen with the lead-up to Iraq.

I really hope this fizzles out.

Tully Mars · 03-12-2008, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Everyone says Diego is where they keep the Stargate.

Nope, that would be Guam. I guaranteed the US will never give up it's territory there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

I've contacted several people about getting the fuck out. I've also contacted locals about staging massive demonstrations. This Saturday I'll go to the CoS protest and let them know their priorities are all fucked up.

I'm an idiot, what CoS?

Willravel · 03-12-2008, 07:02 PM

Church of Scientology.

ottopilot · 04-03-2008, 08:10 AM

Interesting turn of events ... China has been one of Iran's biggest protectors regarding UN investigations for evidence of nuclear weapons development. With the Olympics coming up, is China trying to get a PR bump? With recent crackdowns and abuses in Tibet, have they sold Iran out to divert attention from human rights issues? Are they really so concerned about one of their prominent human-rights activists recently jailed in Iran? Does Iran and China have some 'splainin' to do?

Article from toaday's www.telegraph.co.uk

Quote:

China reveals Iran's nuclear secrets to UN
By Damien McElroy, Foreign Affairs Correspondent
Last Updated: 3:46pm BST 03/04/2008

China has betrayed one its closest allies by providing the United Nations with intelligence on Iran's efforts to acquire nuclear technology, diplomats have revealed.

* Outcry as Chinese activist Hu Jia jailed

Concern over Tehran's secretive research programme has increased in recent weeks after officials at the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the UN's nuclear watchdog, discovered that Iran had obtained information on how to manufacture nuclear-armed weapons.

A heavy-water nuclear facility in Arak and a security guard at an Iranian nuclear enrichment facility

Beijing is believed to have decided to assist the inspectors after documents seized from Iranian officials included blueprints for "shaping" uranium metal into warheads, the testing of high explosives used to detonate radioactive material and the procurement of dual-use technology.

Much of the new material was presented to the governors of the Vienna-based IAEA in February. That meeting is said to have triggered China's change of heart.

President Ahmadinejad on National Nuclear Day: China reveals Iran's nuclear secrets to UN inspectors
Ahmadinejad on National Nuclear Day

Diplomats described Beijing's decision to provide material related to Iran to the IAEA as a potentially significant breakthrough.

Chinese designs for centrifuges that refine uranium into a "weaponised" state have been found in Iran but these are thought to have come through a network controlled by the disgraced Pakistani scientist AQ Khan.

John Bolton, the former American ambassador to the United Nations, said suspicions over the leakage of technology from China to Iran had long centred on uranium enrichment technology and their bilateral ballistic missile trade.

A spokesman for the IAEA said it did not comment on intelligence it received from its members.

Beijing has long-established ties with Iran's clerical regime and has emerged as one of the country's biggest customers for oil and gas.

It has allied itself with Tehran's attempts to prevent the IAEA referring Iran to the UN Security Council, which can impose sanctions.

China has not used its veto powers to block US and British sponsored sanctions but it has ensured the measures were watered down.

The council has levied three rounds of financial sanctions on Iran in an attempt to force the country to declare all its nuclear activities.

IAEA weapons inspectors report that Iran has not provided full co-operation.

An American intelligence assessment judged it likely that Iran stopped efforts to produce a nuclear weapon in 2003 but there are strong fears it has resumed the work under President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Michael Hayden, the director of the CIA, said this week that he believed that Iran is still developing a nuclear bomb.

Meanwhile, Israel has accused Iran of setting up listening stations in Syria to eavesdrop on its military communications network.

Willravel · 04-03-2008, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Beijing is believed to have decided to assist the inspectors after documents seized from Iranian officials included blueprints for "shaping" uranium metal into warheads, the testing of high explosives used to detonate radioactive material and the procurement of dual-use technology.

Written by someone who doesn't understand fission. "High explosives" are not used in nuclear bombs, only a small explosive to propel a bullet into the sphere and generator. Not only that, but gun-triggered fission bombs aren't as efficient as implosion bombs.

As for "dirty bombs"? They don't work. Their danger is a myth. There were numerous studies a few years back that said even the most powerful dirty bomb would have to be detonated, and people would have to stand there for a year for it to have an effect.

This is either a very innapropriate and late Aprtil Fools joke, or really poor reporting.

host · 04-03-2008, 09:49 AM

Relax, willravel, "reporter" McElroy knows who his audience is and he makes up the shit....I mean...he reports the "news" that they want to hear:

Quote:

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArti...76821376383699
A New Day Dawns

By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Tuesday, October 09, 2007 4:20 PM PT

Iraq: The insurgency lives, but it's directed toward al-Qaida, not U.S. and allied forces. A British newspaper, not our legacy media, is reporting that a "transformation has swept" across the Western part of the country.

Related Topics: Iraq

Reporting from Anbar, the Telegraph's Damien McElroy says the shift in the region "allows Marines to walk through areas that a year ago were judged lost to radical Islam control and hear nothing more aggressive than a late-night game of pool."

"Behind the shutters," he reports, "the Sunni Muslim residents of the province are enjoying the dividends of driving out al-Qaida fighters who had imposed an oppressive Taliban-style regime."

Seems like the quagmire is something that al-Qaida is having to deal with. Or maybe not, since its terrorists are being forced out by the locals, many of whom were America's enemies not too long ago.

Today, the locals talk freely and sometimes cheer U.S. patrols, alert them to locations of weapons caches and turn in anyone who is acting suspicious. In the town of Husaybah, the absence of al-Qaida has led to "an economic revival and restoration of favorite pastimes," writes McElroy.

The British reporter's experience confirms progress that former Green Beret and independent journalist Michael Yon has been covering for months. In May, for instance, Yon told punditreview.com that tribal leaders have "completely turned against al-Qaida" and that terrorists are "simply not safe here in Anbar anymore."

"A new day is dawning, and it looks like a real chance for some kind of success here in Iraq, and I can tell you my spirits are substantially lifted just over the period of the last couple of months," Yon said. "I see 2007 is going to be a serious year for progress."

Don't look for similar insights from America's media elite. With a few exceptions, they can't be bothered to cover positive developments in Iraq. Robin Wright of the Washington Post and Barbara Starr of CNN made that clear on Sunday.

When asked by Washington Post media writer Howard Kurtz on his CNN "Reliable Sources" show if the recent "decline in Iraq casualties (should) have gotten more media attention," both implied that they felt the news wasn't worthy of additional focus.

But let those casualty numbers rise . . .

Too bad the American people aren't getting the straight news from Iraq. A steady diet of information that is either partial or spun out of recognition leaves them uninformed. They deserve better, especially if they're to make knowledgeable decisions in the voting booth.

More from McElroy:

Whoops....is this a "whopper", or is the US spending a "shitload" of money:

Quote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...aqdiary134.xml
Inside Iraq: Damien McElroy

By Damien McElroy in Iraq
Last Updated: 12:35am GMT 04/02/2007
Page 1 of 2

Day Four: Ali Al Salem Airbase, Kuwait

....America's war in Iraq cost $35 billion a month. The stupendous annual spending of the Pentagon puts the annual income of many European states in the shade.....

Do we need to get Joe Lieberman to correct the reporting of "expert" on Iraq, Damien McElroy?

Quote:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/p...in-jordan.html
McCain mistakenly says Iran allowing al-Qaeda fighters into the country, later corrects error

By Alfred De Montesquiou
ASSOCIATED PRESS

1:53 p.m. March 18, 2008

...Iran has been accused by the United States of funding, training and arming Iraqi Shiite militants in their uprising against the United States. But there have been no allegations by Washington and no evidence that al-Qaeda has benefited from Iranian assistance.

After Sen. Joe Lieberman, an independent from Connecticut who was traveling with McCain, stepped forward to whisper in the candidate's ear, McCain said: “I'm sorry; the Iranians are training the extremists, not al-Qaeda. Not al-Qaeda. I'm sorry.” ......

Quote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../wanbar308.xml
Iraq insurgency: People rise against al-Qa'eda

By Damien McElroy in Husaybah
Last Updated: 3:09am BST 12/10/2007
Page 1 of 2

Damien McElroy spent a week in the heart of the insurgency in Anbar province in Iraq. In the second of five exclusive reports he describes how peace and prosperity have returned to a town formerly riven by sectarian killings.

.... Behind the shutters the Sunni Muslim residents of the province are enjoying the dividends of driving out al-Qa'eda fighters who had imposed an oppressive Taliban-style regime.

The popular uprising against al-Qa'eda by residents of Anbar Province turned former enemies into American allies earlier this year. The result was a dramatic restoration of stability across Iraq's Sunni heartland. Husaybah bears the scars of the "terrorist" years - 2004 and 2005 - when al-Qa'eda and its local allies controlled the town......

....."The conflict here was all caused by al-Qa'eda," he said. "We work and play as we like under the coalition security. There are jobs for people, shops are opened and we are very happy."

With al-Qa'eda pushed out, Anbaris are even rallying to a new shared cause with America - a fight to secure the country against Iranian infiltration. ....

....One of the leaders of the tribal revolt, Shiekh Kurdi Rafi Al-Shurayji said there was nothing to distinguish al-Qa'eda and the regime in Teheran. "They are no different," he said. <h3>"Al-Qa'eda relies on Iran's support, just the same as every evil force in Iraq.".....</h3>

Quote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../wanbar109.xml

Iraq insurgency: al-Qa'eda returns home

By Damien McElroy in al-Qaim
Last Updated: 3:09am BST 12/10/2007

Damien McElroy spent a week in the heart of the insurgency in Anbar province in Iraq. In the third of five exclusive reports, he describes how al-Qa'eda loyalists are returning home.....

The differences in our POVs comes down to the sources we choose for information. If you rely on sources who tell you want you want to hear, Damien McElroy is your kind of "foreign" correspondent!

Willravel · 04-03-2008, 09:53 AM

HOLY CRAP! Poor reporting it is. It'd be insulting to eve call him a journalist. Seems to be more of a partisan, lying hack.

host · 04-03-2008, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

HOLY CRAP! Poor reporting it is. It'd be insulting to eve call him a journalist. Seems to be more of a partisan, lying hack.

Do you notice a pattern, as far as the reliability of the material that is "furnished" on this forum?

We are what we read......

Tully Mars · 04-03-2008, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by host

Relax, willravel, "reporter" McElroy knows who his audience is and he makes up the shit....I mean...he reports the "news" that they want to hear:

Wonder how hard it would be to get him to write an article about what an attractive, smart and funny guy I am. And how any woman would be lucky to have me?

Oh! Right, right... his audience... never mind. I think I'd prefer to "drink alone" so to speak.

ottopilot · 04-03-2008, 10:27 AM

Crackin me up

The story may be reported poorly, and the news source may be questionable (please post a list of all approved sources), but the National Enquirer even breaks a real story now and then, and the Chinese are addressing this in the UN.

The story and it's qualities are not so much the point as that an event like this with the Chinese has happened. Since this is the first report that I have seen, I'm sure we'll get better details. The point is, what is China's motivation in coming forward?

powerclown · 04-03-2008, 10:29 AM

I think its remarkable that, given the political bent of this board, the majority still think Iran is developing nukes and is worried about it. The forest for the trees...

Willravel · 04-03-2008, 10:32 AM

You mean the majority DON'T think Iran is developing nukes?

powerclown · 04-03-2008, 10:38 AM

I was referring to the voting results at top.

Willravel · 04-03-2008, 10:42 AM

Well look at that. And by a wide margin, too.

host · 04-03-2008, 10:43 AM

Who is wearing the flaming pants? Damien McElroy, Bush and his neocons, China, or the authors of the US Intelligence community's NIE....the report that the Bush administration scoffed at and secretly challenged for a year before it was released....and still refuses to accept as a reliable estimate of Iran's nuclear weapons development, per Bush and Cheney?

Quote:

http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/eng/xwfw/s2510/t421013.htm
Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Jiang Yu's Remarks on Reports of China Providing Information to IAEA on Iran's Nuclear Programs

2008/04/03

Q: It is reported that China recently provided IAEA with information on Iran's attempt to develop nuclear weapons. How do you comment on that?

A: These reports are totally groundless and out of ulterior motives.

China's position on the Iranian nuclear issue is consistent. We always uphold peaceful resolution of the issue through diplomatic negotiations. Given current circumstances, China believes that relevant parties should exert creativity and flexibility, so as to achieve a comprehensive and long-term resolution of the issue. We will continue to make constructive efforts towards that goal.

We're spending a record amount of money in the US on intelligence gathering and analysis. Everything that president Cheney disagrees with has to be quadruple checked and then still is suppressed....

.....isn't it possible that the NIE is the most current and accurate assessment, since it is the opposite determination of what Cheney tells us, and he has been correct about....<h2>what ?</h2>

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerclown

I was referring to the voting results at top.

The "Yes" votes are all members of the cult of personality of the thread's author, methinks:

Quote:

Aladdin Sane, BigBen, Bodyhammer86, CandleInTheDark, Carno, CSflim, cyrnel, Daoust, Daval, dksuddeth, Dragonlich, FlatLand Flyer, flstf, forseti-6, Gabbyness, Humanitarismus, iccky, irateplatypus, jbauer2485, jorgelito, Karby, Lebell, Locke7, Locobot, loquitur, Lucarelli, Medusa, MojoRisin, Mojo_PeiPei, politicophile, powerclown, Redlemon, Seaver, SirLance, sprocket, SteelyLoins, stevo, stingc, The_Jazz, Ustwo, Xazy, zfleebin, Zodijackyl

Locobot....whattayou doing on the list?

(Any Investor's Business Daily or WSJ editorials and op-eds regular readers on the list?)

ottopilot · 04-03-2008, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by host

Who is wearing the flaming pants? Damien McElroy, Bush and his neocons, China, or the authors of the US Intelligence community's NIE....the report that the Bush administration scoffed at and secretly challenged for a year before it was released....and still refuses to accept as a reliable estimate of Iran's nuclear weapons development, per Bush and Cheney?

Since Damien McElroy is mentioned, I'm assuming this is a follow-up to the Chinese/Iranian nuke article. Again, the reason the article was posted was to bring attention to China's intentions, not whether the commentary about the event is accurate.

I see that railing on about who authored an article has become the "intellectual response".

host · 04-03-2008, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopilot

Since Damien McElroy is mentioned, I'm assuming this is a follow-up to the Chinese/Iranian nuke issue. Again, the reason the article was posted was to bring attention to China's intentions, not whether the commentary about the event is accurate.

I see that railing on about who authored an article has become the "intellectual response".

Do you understand that the chances of China "hiding" these "secrets" when Cheney intimidated his parallel intelligence assets, as well as the official intelligence community, for a full year, to find something to counter the judgments in the NIE, with the "mission" of discrediting it's determinations, make the chances of anything in McElroy's article, actually being reliable or of any significance, about one in a hundred thousand?

I'll share the secret of how "the rest of us"....who always seem to get it right, get it right. We believe the opposite of whatever Bush, Cheney, and the IBD and WSJ editorial pages are selling. Know what? It works!!!!!

Quote:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9184.html
‘Terrorism card' is trademark Republican play
By ARI MELBER | 3/24/08 8:33 PM EST

The_Jazz · 04-03-2008, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerclown

I think its remarkable that, given the political bent of this board, the majority still think Iran is developing nukes and is worried about it. The forest for the trees...

Well, this thread IS over a year old, and the voting's been closed for quite some time, so the poll isn't exactly a good representation of what people think NOW, just what they thought a year ago (or so - I'm not sure when the poll closed). I wonder what a current one would show. I think my vote would be different.

ottopilot · 04-03-2008, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by host

Do you understand that the chances of China "hiding" these "secrets" when Cheney intimidated his parallel intelligence assets, as well as the official intelligence community, for a full year, to find something to counter the judgments in the NIE, with the "mission" of discrediting it's determinations, make the chances of anything in McElroy's article, actually being reliable or of an significance, about one in a hundred thousand?

host, it's all possible. I understand your position and I believe there's something to what you're saying. I know you hate the Bush administration, but I don't stop my critique at the administration or political lines. I'm quite certain that there's dirty dealing going on all over the place by our highest leaders from all parties and offices. I find it hard to believe otherwise and ranting on about the evil democrats or republicans is just silly (IMO).

The questions I originally asked are regarding the timing and intent of the Chinese government, not the legitimacy of the article or which Bush conspiracy you want to report on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopilot

Interesting turn of events ... China has been one of Iran's biggest protectors regarding UN investigations for evidence of nuclear weapons development. With the Olympics coming up, is China trying to get a PR bump? With recent crackdowns and abuses in Tibet, have they sold Iran out to divert attention from human rights issues? Are they really so concerned about one of their prominent human-rights activists recently jailed in Iran? Does Iran and China have some 'splainin' to do?

- - - - - - edit - - - - - -

OK, here's another article talking about China handing over intelligence about Iran to the IEAI. Hopefully the source is acceptable and the author not perceived as a tool in one of your Bush/Cheney conspiracies.

www.breitbart.com

Quote:

Nuclear Watchdog Gets China's Iran Intel
Apr 2 11:00 AM US/Eastern
By GEORGE JAHN
Associated Press Writer

VIENNA, Austria (AP) - China has recently given the International Atomic Energy Agency intelligence about Iran's nuclear program despite Beijing's opposition to harsh U.N. Security Council sanctions on Tehran, according to diplomats familiar with the matter.

China and Russia have acted as a brake within the Security Council, consistently watering down a U.S.-led push to impose severe penalties on Tehran for its nuclear defiance since the first set of sanctions was passed in late 2006.

A Chinese decision to provide information for use in the agency's attempts to probe Iran's alleged nuclear weapons program would appear to reflect growing international unease about how honest the Islamic republic has been in denying it ever tried to make such arms.

The new development was revealed to The Associated Press by two senior diplomats who closely follow the IAEA probe of Iran's nuclear program.

The IAEA declined comment and no one answered the phone Wednesday at either the Chinese or Iranian missions to the IAEA.

The diplomats said Beijing was the most surprising entry in a substantial list of nations that have recently forwarded information that could be relevant in attempts to probe past or present nuclear weapons research by Iran.

The diplomats—who demanded anonymity because their information was confidential—attributed a generally increased flow of information to the U.N. nuclear watchdog to concern sparked by a February multimedia presentation by the agency to its 35 IAEA board members, which described intelligence previously forwarded by member states on Iran's alleged clandestine nuclear arms program.

One of the diplomats said the agency was on the lookout for misleading information provided it, either inadvertently or in attempts to falsely implicate Iran. One example, he said was a document showing experiments with implosion technology that can be used to detonate a nuclear device.

While the document appeared genuine, it was unclear whether it originated from Iran, said the diplomat.

Suspected weapons-related work outlined in the February presentation and IAEA reports preceding it include:

—Uranium conversion linked to high explosives testing and designs of a missile re-entry vehicle, all apparently interconnected through involvement of officials and institutions

—Procurement of so-called "dual use" equipment and experiments that also could be used in both civilian and military nuclear programs, and

—Iran's possession of a 15-page document outlining how to form uranium metal into the shape of a warhead.

A U.S. intelligence estimate late last year said Tehran worked on nuclear weapons programs until 2003, while Israel and other nations say such work continued past that date.

Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

I pray that one did the trick. If not, try these:

AP: China gave IAEA intel on Iran's nuclear activities
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...ear-iran_N.htm

Nuclear Watchdog Gets China's Iran Intel
http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0408/508290.html

China assists nuclear-arms probe of Iran - Intelligence sent to U.N. as international concern grows, diplomats say
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23918701/

If you don't like those ... then too bad.

Charlatan · 04-03-2008, 04:24 PM

Here's the thing. With China's latest revelation, I am leaning towards the idea that Iran had been working on nuclear weapons. I am pretty sure that they were working on them back during the Iran/Iraq war.

The reports of this Chinese revelation do not give a time line.

Ustwo · 04-03-2008, 04:29 PM

Water wet, sky blue, Iran wants nukes.

To think otherwise is to bury your head in the sand.

Willravel · 04-03-2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Water wet, sky blue, Iran wants nuclear power.

To think otherwise is to bury your head in the sand.

Fixed it for ya.

ottopilot · 04-03-2008, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Water wet, sky blue, Iran wants nukes.

To think otherwise is to bury your head in the sand.

What do you think about the timing of China's disclosure toward Iran? I may be reading too much here, but perhaps they're trying to improve their image with the west in time for the Olympics?

Charlatan · 04-03-2008, 04:42 PM

minitwo... I agree with you about the Olympics thing which I why I am a but suspect of this revelation.

The World: I can't believe China is oppressing those poor Tibetans. And we gave them the Olympics!

China: Hey! Look what we found Iran *is* developing Nukes!

The World: Damn you Iran!

China: *rubs hands together* hehehe

ottopilot · 04-03-2008, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

minitwo... I agree with you about the Olympics thing which I why I am a but suspect of this revelation.

The World: I can't believe China is oppressing those poor Tibetans. And we gave them the Olympics!

China: Hey! Look what we found Iran *is* developing Nukes!

The World: Damn you Iran!

China: *rubs hands together* hehehe

Ha! minitwo ... you saw my post before I edited.!

I should have left it ...

Yes! ... I thought China was looking a little suspicious on this revelation. With all those pesky Tibetans and what-not ... and just in time for the Olympics!

I do believe Iran wants the nukes, but have no idea on what they are really doing about it ... if anything. My spider senses say they're working hard on this in the shadows.

Ustwo · 04-03-2008, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopilot

What do you think about the timing of China's disclosure toward Iran? I may be reading too much here, but perhaps they're trying to improve their image with the west in time for the Olympics?

I don't trust China, they may well be lying.

Iran is still trying to develop nuclear weapons.

The two need not be connected.

View Poll Results: Is Iran actively developing nuclear weapons?
Yes (and it worries me)	43	51.19%
Yes (and I don't care)	13	15.48%
No (and I'd be worried if they did)	5	5.95%
No (and I don't care)	6	7.14%
Not sure (and I am worried they would)	9	10.71%
Not sure (and I don't care)	8	9.52%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

03-12-2008, 05:13 PM	#205 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	Is this as bad as some are making it out to be, or are they exaggerating? They seriously aren't thinking of going to war with Iran are they? __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

04-03-2008, 10:27 AM	#224 (permalink)
ottopilot let me be clear Location: Waddy Peytona	Crackin me up The story may be reported poorly, and the news source may be questionable (please post a list of all approved sources), but the National Enquirer even breaks a real story now and then, and the Chinese are addressing this in the UN. The story and it's qualities are not so much the point as that an event like this with the Chinese has happened. Since this is the first report that I have seen, I'm sure we'll get better details. The point is, what is China's motivation in coming forward? __________________ "It rubs the lotion on Buffy, Jodi and Mr. French's skin" - Uncle Bill from Buffalo Last edited by ottopilot; 04-03-2008 at 10:45 AM..

04-03-2008, 04:24 PM	#234 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Here's the thing. With China's latest revelation, I am leaning towards the idea that Iran had been working on nuclear weapons. I am pretty sure that they were working on them back during the Iran/Iraq war. The reports of this Chinese revelation do not give a time line. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

04-03-2008, 04:29 PM	#235 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Water wet, sky blue, Iran wants nukes. To think otherwise is to bury your head in the sand. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

03-12-2008, 12:58 PM	#204 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	http://www.inteldaily.com/?c=173&a=5479 If you have friends and family in Iran, it would seem now would probably be the time to recommend that they take a vacation outside their country. I'd recommend Europe.

03-12-2008, 06:18 PM	#214 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Everyone says Diego is where they keep the Stargate. I've contacted several people about getting the fuck out. I've also contacted locals about staging massive demonstrations. This Saturday I'll go to the CoS protest and let them know their priorities are all fucked up.

03-12-2008, 07:02 PM	#217 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Church of Scientology.

04-03-2008, 09:53 AM	#221 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	HOLY CRAP! Poor reporting it is. It'd be insulting to eve call him a journalist. Seems to be more of a partisan, lying hack.

04-03-2008, 10:29 AM	#225 (permalink)
powerclown Junkie Location: Detroit, MI	I think its remarkable that, given the political bent of this board, the majority still think Iran is developing nukes and is worried about it. The forest for the trees...

04-03-2008, 10:32 AM	#226 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	You mean the majority DON'T think Iran is developing nukes?

04-03-2008, 10:38 AM	#227 (permalink)
powerclown Junkie Location: Detroit, MI	I was referring to the voting results at top.

04-03-2008, 10:42 AM	#228 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Well look at that. And by a wide margin, too.

04-03-2008, 04:42 PM	#238 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	minitwo... I agree with you about the Olympics thing which I why I am a but suspect of this revelation. The World: I can't believe China is oppressing those poor Tibetans. And we gave them the Olympics! China: Hey! Look what we found Iran is developing Nukes! The World: Damn you Iran! China: rubs hands together hehehe __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke