Will There Be Peace? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Liquor Dealer · 06-04-2003, 12:38 PM

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,88524,00.html

AQABA, Jordan — "Important progress" toward implementing the "road map" for Mideast peace was made in a meeting Wednesday with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and new Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas, President Bush said in Jordan.

"The journey we're taking is difficult, but there is no other choice," Bush said at a press conference following a meeting with the foreign leaders. "No leader of conscience can accept more months and years of humiliation, killing and mourning. I know that peace can finally come."

I believe that parts of Europe should realize that the United States is serious in its attempt to see that peace comes to the Middle-East. It may be a hard lesson for one of them to learn but the toleration of the obstructionist path that France has chosen to take in this regard is not going to be tolerated by this administration and, hence: this nation. France, for whatever reason, keeps dragging Arafat back into the picture and as long as Arafat has any say there will never be any type of lasting agreement. Hamas acts at the whim of Arafat and Arafat has no place in a peaceful Middle-East.

Mojo_PeiPei · 06-04-2003, 03:50 PM

There will never be peace in Israel because Palestinians are fuck ups. Hamas and Al-Aqsa won't stop their terrorist campaigns and Israeli's will bitch until Sharon falls back in line.

gibber71 · 06-04-2003, 06:49 PM

There will never be peace because both sides are fuck ups. When both sides advocate the extinction of each other,that's fucked. To think otherwise is myopic.

Frowning Budah · 06-04-2003, 06:53 PM

Until you can end the hate of all these extremist you are not going to have Peace. And lots of luck doing that.

Mojo_PeiPei · 06-04-2003, 07:44 PM

Honestly just let them have at each other, Israel vs. The Arabs. Not like the region would be in any worse shape than it already is.

XenuHubbard · 06-04-2003, 09:27 PM

It will take some time to fix the situation.
There are fanatics on both sides that still doesn't want peace.
Look at what happened to Rabin - he wanted peace, almost had it, was killed.

If this fails, I have a new plan for peace.
"The fuck-the-Palestinians, fuck-the-Israelis, GIVE IT TO THE KURDS-road map".

seretogis · 06-04-2003, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mojo_PeiPei
Honestly just let them have at each other, Israel vs. The Arabs. Not like the region would be in any worse shape than it already is.

I'm tempted to say the same, but it doesn't work that way. We are all affected by massive conflicts like what would occur in the middle east if it were to go untouched. There are plenty of jews in the US who would make tasty targets for Palestinian suit-case nukes when they get bored with Israel. :P

Sun Tzu · 06-05-2003, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mojo_PeiPei
There will never be peace in Israel because Palestinians are fuck ups. Hamas and Al-Aqsa won't stop their terrorist campaigns and Israeli's will bitch until Sharon falls back in line.

This is a place for opinions, and each to their own, its my opinion thats an extremely racial statement.

Timothy McVeigh bombed a US government building in Oklahoma. Does that mean Americans are fuck ups?

It may seem like that land is a million miles away and nothing that goes on there has any effect to the rest of the world; but IMO unless the situation is mediated it will eventually affect everyone. Hopefully it will be a win/win scenerio.

Ive heard that President Bush is caving in because of Arab pressure is with reguards to the RM. I dont think he has any fear of Arabs or losing oil after what has just happened. Could it be it just the right thing to do.

Ive heard the Native Americans have formulated a supervirus that kills anyone that doesnt have Native American genes, and is especially painful to caucasions. They're demanding Americans begin leaving the entire northern half of the US. We will be allowed Texas, and maybe New Mexico, but they're already right wing casino owners demanding that we not even be given that.
They're justified of this because its written in the Book of the Great White Buffulo that this land is theirs; which really sucks becuase I dont believe in the Great White Buffalo. Secondly it doesnt matter if some property has been own by some for hundreds of years because their records say they were here thousands of years ago. So leave. Or they'll release the virus.

Mojo_PeiPei if you were just refering to the terrorists I misunderstood what you said. If your referring to all Palestinians. I'll take the fact that no one else has said anything as a cue to stay of of the political threads, and wish you best of luck.

KillerYoda · 06-05-2003, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sun Tzu
Timothy McVeigh bombed a US government building in Oklahoma. Does that mean Americans are fuck ups?

But we actually are fuckups.

Seriously though, the world's hatred of Jews caused the problem to begin with, so it won't ever go away. We can blame it it on the Nazis, since their "Final Solution" led to the original displacement of a large population of innocent people, but all the Western nations contributed to the problem the most. The only reason Israel exists is because even after the Holocaust, countries were still not allowing unlimited Jewish immigration and hundreds of thousands of Jews had no place to go. So the UN took it upon themselves to force the Palestinians to move over and allow the Jews to live in half of their country. The Western nations didn't feel like dealing with a growing Jewish population, so they forced the Arabs to deal with it, and sadly they deal with it by blowing up on various occassions. The only solution to the problem would be one group moving someplace else, and that will never, ever happen.

Pretty much we could give a box of cookies to everyone in the area, and it would have about as much of an effect on the situation as shaking hands in photo-ops does.

Sun Tzu · 06-05-2003, 01:07 AM

Theres plenty of Jews that are Americans; same with Arabs.

Persoanlly I think basing an opinion on someone soley for how they pray to their God is ignorant. Again each to their own; and actions provide a much better foundation.

I could be wrong becasue I cant speak for the world obviously, but I think its more the Zionists that are getting the harsh feelings. There are Israelis that want illegal settlement stopped as much as the Palestinians. I know there are crimes against Jews now such as against sacred places of worship or vandelism; again ignorant. Im sure there still some buring crosses down south still happening.

Your first statement has a frightening humor to it. I think the whole world is a fuck up. But were all working toward something for something right? The good life whatever that is. Well see what happens in weeks to come. I think the next two years are going to be very important ones for all of us.

By the way I think your "I got nothing" theme is some of the funniest material in the forum. I look forward to your posts.

KillerYoda · 06-05-2003, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sun Tzu
By the way I think your "I got nothing" theme is some of the funniest material in the forum. I look forward to your posts.

That's no theme, I'm pretty stupid and usually do have nothing.

Liquor Dealer · 06-05-2003, 05:05 AM

I noticed on the news this morning that Arafat has again thrown in his 2 cents worth - He's telling the Palestinians there is nothing for them in the current attempts to settle the issue with Israel. What does it take to remove him from the picture. It appears to me that if there is ever to be a serious attempt to settle this issue he has to go - and not come back. Sharon has given probably all that he can give and still maintain any control of the Israeli government. He is dealing with religious extremes just like they are in Palestine.

Should someone help in the removal of Arafat?

How involved should the west become involved in the Middle-East?

France keeps reinserting Arafat into the picture - How much of this should be tolerated?

Should we push the issue? Or get out of it?

Daval · 06-05-2003, 05:47 AM

Finally it looks as though there could maybe possibly be a smidgeon of hope for peace over there.

Sun Tzu · 06-05-2003, 05:50 AM

Absolutely he needs to go away. I think he belongs on serious medication. Looking at him and listening to how he talks reminds me of someone thats getting Alzheimers or similiar.

While I know that a majority of the Palestinians are Muslims I think there level of religious zealous practice stems from different reasons than any other part of the region, because they're in a different siutation than any other part of the region; even Lebanon.

Something Im unclear on; did the elections happen or not. The last I remember curfews and checkpoint closures were imposed making the election process difficult if not negated. Hence if they did eventually they voted for Arafat again? They have to know that he's not helping the situation.

Through all the talk and negotiations, Sharon, Arafat, extremes on both sides; it boils down to truly one element IMO:
Making the Israeli settlements get off the Gaza Strip and West Bank. The current direction is going to come to an inevitable collision because both multiply. The Palestinians are already stacked on one another making their already small living area the most densly populated place on Earth.

President Bush has designed the settlements to be removed well see what happens. Arafat needs to shut up. If Sharon continues to refuse there is going to be a situation that continues to get worse.

KillerYoda, you have plenty trust me.

Mojo_PeiPei · 06-05-2003, 06:32 AM

Settlements are a big issue, but again you have the PR guy for Hamas coming out and saying that closing the settlements isn't good enough, that the violence won't stop until all land is returned.

The Arabs just need to accept the fact that the Israeli's are there to stay, palin and simple. I'm not saying the Israeli's hands are clean or they are saints, but Israel is their home too.

gibber71 · 06-05-2003, 07:12 AM

It would be easy to say get rid of Arafat and even Sharon at the same time,but unfortunately they are only the tip of the iceberg.The radical extremists on both sides,that being the jews who never want to see a Palestinian state and the Arab world that wants to see the extinction of all jews,are the main problem that doesn't seem to be going away,but rather getting worse.

Neither side really want to give much up except for superficial exchanges since who ever caves in first will look like the loser.It is sad in this day and age that at one moment life seems so valuable,and then in the next moment, seems so meaningless. I really don't know why people just can't get along but one reason may be because both sides have become so desensitized since death on a daily basis has become the norm. Hate is a very strong word,but in this context is an understatement. But then again,the eternal optimist will say things can't get any worse and the only way to go is forward. I think the healing if it ever comes about will not take decades,but rather centuries.

crumbbum · 06-16-2003, 04:57 PM

Two comments based on things I read in this thread-

1. Each side is not trying to exterminate the other. Israelis do not want and have never wanted to exterminate the Palestinians. Never have they attacked civilians targets (civilians have been killed and injured, collateral damage, but they are never targets). Israel has been trying to make peace since it's inception.

2. The Israelis that don't want a Palestinian state don't want it because a. it would be rewarding terrorism, and b. it would likely be an existential threat and another warfront against Israel. These are totally legitimate fears, and it is not right to call people that have them "extremists". You are talking about a LOT of people.

Also, while if a Palestinian state were established in the "West bank", some settlements would need to be removed in order to give it territorial contiguity, don't believe the spin that the settlements are one of the roots of the conflict. They weren't built on arab land. Also, there was Palestinian hatred and terrorist attacks long before any settlements were built, and even before the 6 day war. Obviously the real root of it is something else. Of course they want the settlements to go- just like they want the whole state to go. The arabs say the settlements are the issue, but this is an attempt to obscure the real source of the conflict- Palestinian racism, hatred and xenophobia (aided and abetted by the PA and other Arab states).

06-04-2003, 12:38 PM	#1 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	Will There Be Peace? http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,88524,00.html AQABA, Jordan — "Important progress" toward implementing the "road map" for Mideast peace was made in a meeting Wednesday with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and new Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas, President Bush said in Jordan. "The journey we're taking is difficult, but there is no other choice," Bush said at a press conference following a meeting with the foreign leaders. "No leader of conscience can accept more months and years of humiliation, killing and mourning. I know that peace can finally come." I believe that parts of Europe should realize that the United States is serious in its attempt to see that peace comes to the Middle-East. It may be a hard lesson for one of them to learn but the toleration of the obstructionist path that France has chosen to take in this regard is not going to be tolerated by this administration and, hence: this nation. France, for whatever reason, keeps dragging Arafat back into the picture and as long as Arafat has any say there will never be any type of lasting agreement. Hamas acts at the whim of Arafat and Arafat has no place in a peaceful Middle-East. __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

06-04-2003, 07:44 PM	#5 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Honestly just let them have at each other, Israel vs. The Arabs. Not like the region would be in any worse shape than it already is. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

06-04-2003, 09:27 PM	#6 (permalink)
XenuHubbard Cute and Cuddly Location: Teegeeack.	It will take some time to fix the situation. There are fanatics on both sides that still doesn't want peace. Look at what happened to Rabin - he wanted peace, almost had it, was killed. If this fails, I have a new plan for peace. "The fuck-the-Palestinians, fuck-the-Israelis, GIVE IT TO THE KURDS-road map". __________________ The above was written by a true prophet. Trust me. "What doesn't kill you, makes you bitter and paranoid". - SB2000

06-05-2003, 01:07 AM	#10 (permalink)
Sun Tzu Conspiracy Realist Location: The Event Horizon	Theres plenty of Jews that are Americans; same with Arabs. Persoanlly I think basing an opinion on someone soley for how they pray to their God is ignorant. Again each to their own; and actions provide a much better foundation. I could be wrong becasue I cant speak for the world obviously, but I think its more the Zionists that are getting the harsh feelings. There are Israelis that want illegal settlement stopped as much as the Palestinians. I know there are crimes against Jews now such as against sacred places of worship or vandelism; again ignorant. Im sure there still some buring crosses down south still happening. Your first statement has a frightening humor to it. I think the whole world is a fuck up. But were all working toward something for something right? The good life whatever that is. Well see what happens in weeks to come. I think the next two years are going to be very important ones for all of us. By the way I think your "I got nothing" theme is some of the funniest material in the forum. I look forward to your posts. __________________ *To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking*

06-05-2003, 05:05 AM	#12 (permalink)
Liquor Dealer Super Agitator Location: Just SW of Nowhere!!! In the good old US of A	I noticed on the news this morning that Arafat has again thrown in his 2 cents worth - He's telling the Palestinians there is nothing for them in the current attempts to settle the issue with Israel. What does it take to remove him from the picture. It appears to me that if there is ever to be a serious attempt to settle this issue he has to go - and not come back. Sharon has given probably all that he can give and still maintain any control of the Israeli government. He is dealing with religious extremes just like they are in Palestine. Should someone help in the removal of Arafat? How involved should the west become involved in the Middle-East? France keeps reinserting Arafat into the picture - How much of this should be tolerated? Should we push the issue? Or get out of it? __________________ Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, sometimes it's more like a jar of Jalapenos --- what you say or do today might burn your ass tomorrow!!!

06-04-2003, 03:50 PM	#2 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	There will never be peace in Israel because Palestinians are fuck ups. Hamas and Al-Aqsa won't stop their terrorist campaigns and Israeli's will bitch until Sharon falls back in line.

06-04-2003, 06:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
gibber71 Loser	There will never be peace because both sides are fuck ups. When both sides advocate the extinction of each other,that's fucked. To think otherwise is myopic.

06-04-2003, 06:53 PM	#4 (permalink)
Frowning Budah Slave of Fear	Until you can end the hate of all these extremist you are not going to have Peace. And lots of luck doing that.

06-05-2003, 05:47 AM	#13 (permalink)
Daval Junkie Location: The True North Strong and Free!	Finally it looks as though there could maybe possibly be a smidgeon of hope for peace over there. __________________ "It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it." Winston Churchill

06-05-2003, 05:50 AM	#14 (permalink)
Sun Tzu Conspiracy Realist Location: The Event Horizon	Absolutely he needs to go away. I think he belongs on serious medication. Looking at him and listening to how he talks reminds me of someone thats getting Alzheimers or similiar. While I know that a majority of the Palestinians are Muslims I think there level of religious zealous practice stems from different reasons than any other part of the region, because they're in a different siutation than any other part of the region; even Lebanon. Something Im unclear on; did the elections happen or not. The last I remember curfews and checkpoint closures were imposed making the election process difficult if not negated. Hence if they did eventually they voted for Arafat again? They have to know that he's not helping the situation. Through all the talk and negotiations, Sharon, Arafat, extremes on both sides; it boils down to truly one element IMO: Making the Israeli settlements get off the Gaza Strip and West Bank. The current direction is going to come to an inevitable collision because both multiply. The Palestinians are already stacked on one another making their already small living area the most densly populated place on Earth. President Bush has designed the settlements to be removed well see what happens. Arafat needs to shut up. If Sharon continues to refuse there is going to be a situation that continues to get worse. KillerYoda, you have plenty trust me. __________________ *To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking*

06-05-2003, 06:32 AM	#15 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Settlements are a big issue, but again you have the PR guy for Hamas coming out and saying that closing the settlements isn't good enough, that the violence won't stop until all land is returned. The Arabs just need to accept the fact that the Israeli's are there to stay, palin and simple. I'm not saying the Israeli's hands are clean or they are saints, but Israel is their home too. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

06-05-2003, 07:12 AM	#16 (permalink)
gibber71 Loser	It would be easy to say get rid of Arafat and even Sharon at the same time,but unfortunately they are only the tip of the iceberg.The radical extremists on both sides,that being the jews who never want to see a Palestinian state and the Arab world that wants to see the extinction of all jews,are the main problem that doesn't seem to be going away,but rather getting worse. Neither side really want to give much up except for superficial exchanges since who ever caves in first will look like the loser.It is sad in this day and age that at one moment life seems so valuable,and then in the next moment, seems so meaningless. I really don't know why people just can't get along but one reason may be because both sides have become so desensitized since death on a daily basis has become the norm. Hate is a very strong word,but in this context is an understatement. But then again,the eternal optimist will say things can't get any worse and the only way to go is forward. I think the healing if it ever comes about will not take decades,but rather centuries.

06-16-2003, 04:57 PM	#17 (permalink)
crumbbum Crazy Location: CT,NYC,NJ(have been all over)	Two comments based on things I read in this thread- 1. Each side is not trying to exterminate the other. Israelis do not want and have never wanted to exterminate the Palestinians. Never have they attacked civilians targets (civilians have been killed and injured, collateral damage, but they are never targets). Israel has been trying to make peace since it's inception. 2. The Israelis that don't want a Palestinian state don't want it because a. it would be rewarding terrorism, and b. it would likely be an existential threat and another warfront against Israel. These are totally legitimate fears, and it is not right to call people that have them "extremists". You are talking about a LOT of people. Also, while if a Palestinian state were established in the "West bank", some settlements would need to be removed in order to give it territorial contiguity, don't believe the spin that the settlements are one of the roots of the conflict. They weren't built on arab land. Also, there was Palestinian hatred and terrorist attacks long before any settlements were built, and even before the 6 day war. Obviously the real root of it is something else. Of course they want the settlements to go- just like they want the whole state to go. The arabs say the settlements are the issue, but this is an attempt to obscure the real source of the conflict- Palestinian racism, hatred and xenophobia (aided and abetted by the PA and other Arab states). __________________ Truth is peace. We are all souls in bodies.