cellophanedeity

Why do parents think that "Because I said so" is a valid reason for doing things?

Would it not be more effective to explain your reasonings behind something than to make what they say unquestionable.

I have a firm belief that this way of parenting has helped make me unable to deal with my parents when I disagree with them, beyond retreating from the situation and crying. I also believe that this way of parenting has helped the violent and agressive way that my brother responds to my parents.

They're good parents all around, except for this one thing. But I think it's a big thing.

So parents out there, please explain to me: Why do you, or even, do you do the "because I said so" routine? What do you think this accomplishes?

Cynthetiq

while I'm not a parent, I respected the statement as far as I'm concerned it's rooted in:

My House, My Rules. If I didn't like it I was free to move out on my own, which I did at 17 to attend college.

I'm not violent nor agressive, and never have been. My parents made those statements to me and it gave me more resolve to pay for my own way as quickly as possible.

If you are a guest in my house, you follow my rules, which means things like dirty dishes go in the sink, don't mess up the kitchen, and similar things. Why are they that way? Because I want them to be and I said so.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Willravel

I swore when I was 5 that I'd never say that to my kids. I still plan on keeping that promise. I want my daughter to seek out reason behind action, as it is often a window into the thought process of other people. If you understand someone else's thought process, you know what to expect from them in the future and act accordingly. If I don't want my daughter riding a motorcycle (when she's older), I'll tell her it's because one of my best friends died in a motorcycle accedent involveing no one but himself, and he was one of the best riders I knew. I know that they're dangerous, and I can prove it to my daughter. Simply saying 'because I said do' not only doesn't explain why I am saying what I'm saying, it takes all the reason out of my demand. It's begging for a fight, and it promotes the idea that I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

Charlatan

You know, before I had kids I swore I would never say, "Because I said so".

Sometimes you just get sick of explaining yourself, yet again.

I can only explain to my son why he should pick up after himself so many times before I end up relying on the simple, BISS.

I know it sucks but kids can really be annoying and there are only so many hours in the day...

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

jay-g

Meditrina

Charlatan took the words right out of my mouth. I swore I would never say it. But sometimes they leave you no choice. It is definitely a last resort, and I try really hard to use it sparingly. Even then, I cringe when I hear the words coming out of my mouth. and then I try to explain my reasons again.

__________________
"Toughness is in the soul and spirit, not in muscles." ~Alex Karras

ngdawg

I'm pretty stern when I think something should be done and resort to the 'parental dictatorship mantra' quite often. My son questions and second-guesses everything.As stated, my house, my rules. Doesn't keep the kids from trying to get away with stuff, but in addition to 'because I said so', I also have eyes in the back of my head.
As to what does it accomplish-actually more than saying something over and over..."Clean up those toys!" Why?" "Because I SAID SO". They already know the rules. Explaining over and over and over does nothing but delay whatever it is they didn't want to do, so cut to the chase.
How you reacted to your parents probably has to do with more than one simple phrase.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

ShaniFaye

I agree with Charlatan....I too swore I never would say it...but there are just some times where you open your mouth and thats what comes out lol
Its not a constant thing with me....I do try to explain things....but sometimes that IS the best explanation

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

God of Thunder

My daughter is only two, but I already anticipate saying it.

As has been said already, sometimes it is the only explination they need. Kids need to learn to do some things because they were told to. If you establish a pattern of explaining the reason why they need to do something, they will just learn to question every request.

If needed, an explination can always be given later. This will reassure them that there was a valid reason behind your request. And it will hopefully establish a pattern of trust.

__________________
I reject your reality, and substitute my own

-- Adam Savage

Shadefire

Personally, I think it trains them for adulthood.
"Boss, why do I have to do that spreadsheet now?"
"Because I said so!"

__________________
I was covered in blood, but it wasn't mine, so it was okay. - Anita Blake

Cynthetiq

Well put.

There's many times where we don't get an explanation and just have to do something because that's the way that it is.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Glory's Sun

I loved it when my parents would say that.. I would always reply "And I said no!!" and it turned into a battle..


I was a rotten kid

Now had they just explained things.. I would have been less apt to buck against the rule or whatever I was fighting.

Charlatan

Somehow I doubt it...

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Jinn

Call me an intellectual rebel, but I will patently refuse to do something that someone tells me to do "because I said so," even going so far as to be violently angry and destroy anything that they or I had created up to that point.

"Because I said so" is a cop-out, and those who use it know that it is. Even those of you who say it realize that you've only said it because you've run out of ways to explain it, or you're simply sick-and-tired of having to explain things over and over again.

Personally, I thrive on this discourse. I will certainly deign that any parents here have FAR more experience than I, and I cannot dismiss their input. However, I absolutely love explaining something to someone until they get it. Assuming they'll listen, I'll explain things 170 ways using props and dictionaries until they understand why something is, how something needs to be done, or why I want something done. To me, being unable to convince someone something needs to be done to the point where I must say "because I said so" is a failure on my part to be an effective communicator. I realize that it's selfish, but I really really wish more people held this view in life. There would be far less miscommunication, far less anger, and far less need for authority if we could all become better communicators.

A case in point. Flash back to when I'm 16. My dad needs the dishes done. I don't think they need to be done, becuase the sink isn't even full yet. "Son.. get the dishes done." "But why, dad? They're not even filling the sink.." "BECAUSE I SAID SO!!!"

My minds eye just choked him to death and broke all of the dishes all over the floor, but--back in the real world-- I'm simply seething with anger and unable to speak. An anger that could have easily been avoided if he'd simply told me that he really likes to have a clean house, think it reflects poorly on him, has guests coming over and wants a cleaner house, thinks its smells, thinks it looks bad, wants it out of the way so he can use the sink, etc.. etc.. etc.

If he'd just explained those reasons to me, even at the ripe old age of 16.. I would have understood. At 16 I'm CERTAINLY capable of understanding why appearances matter, or why he wants them clean so that he can use the sink for other things.

As an adult now, I still react angrily if another adult tries to use BISS on me. Its the assumption that I won't understand whats really wrong, or the fear that I won't accept their reason that drives me nuts. Just FUCKING TELL ME ALREADY!!!

^^ The above all assumes discourse with adults or young adults, so I cannot speak for small children. I can, however, accept that children are unable to understand why they should care about your feelings or your needs as their adult parent; but as soon as I see the gleam in the childs' eye that shows me that they actually CARE about me, then I'll be certain to step away from the BISS reason, and actually explain why its important to me. I think the problem is that some parents never step away, and assume that their children couldn't understand the emotional or rational reason for them needing something to be done.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Charlatan

If you already knew this and he knew you knew this... why should he have to explain himself yet again.

If it's your job to do the dishes. Do the dishes when asked.

I don't disagree that explainations should be forthcoming but you can only explain yourself so much before you start pissing me off...

Perhaps your Dad should have said, "For fuck sakes, son... you know damn well why the dishes need to get done."

By the way, if you are planning on having kids, get used to saying it now...

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Jinn

What if he never explained it in the first place? I think its hasty to assume that the explanation was forthcoming the first time, and not "BISS." It's also selfish to assume as the user of BISS that they still REMEMBER your reason.

Aha! And this is where the resentment, as a child.. came from. It's offered as an authority that I should listen to because I just *should*, but its really not an authority. They chose to bring me into this world, just like they choose to give me shelter and food. It's giving a gift and then demanding recompetence. If I'd felt like my food and shelter were an actual barter deal, and they wouldn't be there if I didn't do my chores, then I could see it. But if you're just giving me food and shelter for free for 10 years and then you suddenly expect me to do your dishes now? Fuck you!

(edit: not fuck you, Charlatan, fuck you.. metaphorical father... in this example...

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

maleficent

Oh Lord have mercy Jinn, my father would have had you down at the recruiting station and shipped off the military with that attitude...

__________________

Charlatan

Of course an explaination should be provided first. BISS shouldn't be used if you are to lazy to provide a reason. However, you really should be capable of remembering why the dishes need to be cleaned.



As we say in my house, this is *our* house and you (my son) are part of the group of people who live in this house. As a member of this house you have certain responsibilities (his are keeping his room and the basement clean, clearing the breakfast and dinner dishes, etc.). I have responsibilities like paying the mortgage and buying the groceries.

If he doesn't want to be a part of our house he can find another house to live in.

Consider the first 10 years a freebie. Now you have to start paying, in sweat (sorry Fame reference... Debbie Allen eat your heart out!).

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Daoust

"Because I Said So" ... Charlatan has said it best. I echo his sentiments...

I think that parents can and should use this defense with their children until such an age as when the children are capable of interpreting a parents reasons WHY they said to do such and such a thing; therefore eliminating the reasons for the parent to just end the conversation at BISS, and allowing them to give justifyable, rational arguments for why Susie must clean her room.

There is no good enough reason why a parent should have to engage in a long drawn out battle with their 5 year old over a messy bedroom. In my experience (one which I hope to carry on with my daughter and future children) when Dad said "clean your room" my automatic response was "okay!", partly out of fear, partly out of respect. I never DARED ask why. That would only ensure the deep pinkish hue of spanked flesh.

__________________
I have faith in a few things - divinity and grace
But even when I'm on my knees I know the devil preys

Glory's Sun

my pop threatend me with Military school once....


never went

ShaniFaye

you know....once when I was younger I asked my mother why I had to do something....she went thru the explanation, to which I listened, told her I didnt agree with her reasoning (sounded good at the time) and waltzed off without doing what I'd been told to do.

Only one more time in my life did I ask why when instructed to do something (seems the 2 month grounding I got didnt really "take" the first time) that time I was told because she said so and grounded for 3 months.

As a mother now, what I dont understand is why cant someone just do what they are asked without having to have a reason for it.

I understand in the military you dont ask your superior office why he gave you an order to do something....why shouldnt a parent have the same respect and consideration?

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Glory's Sun

Shani, if I had gone to military school, they would have sent me home in 2 days. I always ask why. If my question is met with the answer "because I said so" then I don't give a fuck who you are, I'm not doing it. Why is a great question and helps you learn. When I tell someone here to do something sure I'm an asshole about it, but I always say why I want it done that way.

Now, when it comes to kids I take the same stance. I think that if you take the time to explain to you kids why you say to do something it only strenghtens your bond and encourages an openness between the parent and child. That isn't saying you can't discipline them but to just be a dictator only causes rifts between children and parents.

maleficent

A small child doesn't need an explanation... Does a child need to be told not to touch the stove because it's hot, or not to cross the street without supervision because they could get hit by a car. Because Mommy or Daddy said so should be good enough reason.

When a child gets older and doesn't see a reason to clean their room -- because that's the way Mom and Dad want it, is the reason... The kid doing the questioning is the one causing the rift not the parents.

__________________

JustJess

My mom always tells the story of how she was getting frustrated arguing with one of us, and why couldn't we just do whatever it was... and my dad said "You were the one who wanted to bring them up with opinions."

Heh.

It's a different world. Parents... don't get respect unless they earn it. Frankly, my mom was a nutcase too many times for me to not have argued with her. We once got into a screaming match when I was a teenager because she told me to take the laundry upstairs, and I said I'd do it in a minute. That wasn't good enough, and it devolved from there.
Parents should be the ones in control, but the BISS argument was always bullshit in my house - a method of control, not the healthy kind.

Saying BISS when I'm not 4 is disrespectful to ME. Am I too stupid? You don't care enough about whatever it is to explain? You want me to treat you well, you treat me well too. My parents want me to respect them, they're going to have to respect me too.

ARggh.

__________________
My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

Glory's Sun

Yes a child needs to have an explanation that the stove is hot and can hurt them. Why would that be a bad explanation?? That does nothing but benefit the child. You tell your kids to look both ways before crossing the street so they don't get smashed. Makes perfect sense and helps to reinforce the idea in the child. It would also reinforce the fact that the child will then realize that parent is trying to protect them.

maleficent

It's all about the age of the child...
How much time have you spent around kids? tell a kid that the stove is hot - and betcha a dollar or more that kid is going to touch the stove to see for himself. (heck there'd be a lot of adults who will do the touching)

__________________

Glory's Sun

betcha that same dollar back that if you tell a child "Because I said so" they'll just wait till you aren't looking and still touch the stove

maleficent

and the child will burn himself and mommy will get to say I TOLD YOU SO... if you had listened to me.. you wouldn't be crying.

__________________

Glory's Sun

right.. and if you had explained that it was hot.. they would say YOU WERE RIGHT MOMMY which again reinforces the protector image for the child

raeanna74

Bingo - I was one of those kids. No matter what reason my parents gave for not doing stuff I just had to test it out to see if they were right. 99% of the time - they were. My daughter is one of those kids too.

My daughter also loves to try to draw me into an arguement or giving in at least a little bit. I've said the phrase a few times but most of the time it's been after she's argued every decision I've made that day and I'm tired of reasoning with her. Or when she's continuing to argue a decision that I'm firm on. It seems that sometimes she's just arguing for the sake of arguing and not because she really disbelieves my reasons. When I say "Because I said so." it usually means "I've explained this before (or just a minute ago) and I'm tired of arguing - this is the end of the discussion. You either obey or suffer the consequences."

__________________
"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

Charlatan

That's it exactly.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Glory's Sun

ok.. so say the BISS argument makes them shutup.. at what point does this change from a dictatorship into something more useful to both individuals?

Shadefire

My Mother said Because I said so. The reasoning behind it is if you're mother tells you to clean the house, what more reason do you need. She shouldn't have to clean the house by herself and that was understood. If we had the audacity to ask Why? about something so mundane as cleaning the house or doing dishes we were just idiots.

__________________
I was covered in blood, but it wasn't mine, so it was okay. - Anita Blake

Glory's Sun

and who told you that you were idiots for asking why?

Charlatan

I don't know what kind of hippie house you grew up in by our house isn't a democracy when it comes to the kids. My wife and I run an oligarchy where we are the supreme rulers.

I am only partly kidding. I don't see why my three year old should have any real say in how the house is run. However, my 11-year-old son does have some imput. In the end though, what my wife and I decide to do is the way it is going to be.

Children are just that... children. They don't get to make the rules. We do. I will explain myself but if it is something you have been asked to do, you will do it unless you can give me a good enough reason why not.

"Because I don't want to", doesn't cut it.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Shadefire

Nobody told us we were idiots. I just think that I would have been an idiot if I needed to have the benifits of a clean house and clean dishes explained to me.

__________________
I was covered in blood, but it wasn't mine, so it was okay. - Anita Blake

ShaniFaye

why is it Charlatan always says what Im gonna say

jesus, its no wonder some kids have no respect for authority.

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Charlatan

My firm belief before my son was born and it remains so today is that when children are young you should be as strict as possible (within reason) with them. They need to learn the rules and understand how things work.

This lays the ground work for when they are older. If done correctly, there need only be ground rules. An older teenager should have such an ingrained understanding of what is right and wrong that there should be no need to be strict. They will have self-discipline. They will do what is expected and question what is unreasonable.

So far it is working well with my son. He generally does what is expected of him and has a very healthy skepticism of authority.

As with everything... the key is in the balance of respect for authority without being a sheep.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Glory's Sun

I hope that's not directed at me. I have no respect for authority because it was slammed down my throat.

Charlatan: I hate hippies and I grew up in a militaristic style house. My dad was in the military for 20+ years. It was "his way or the highway." I bucked against it constantly because I didn't feel it was the right way to do things. Sure a child shouldn't have the say so in matters, that's not what I'm saying. I'm merely saying that if explanations were thrown out there it would encourage a healthy relationship and an open discussion forum between parent and child. If you explain to a child why they shouldn't do things and then they do them, then obviously it's time for punishment. I would like to think that if I hadn't been forced to do things "Because I said so!!", that me and my family would get along better. I'd also like to think that I wouldn't have done have the shit I did. I only did them out of spite to prove I didn't like the militaristic "BISS" style of parenting I was thrown into.

ShaniFaye

It was directed at anyone who thinks that using BISS after already explaining the same damn thing multiple times is a bad thing.

My house is not a democracy...when I tell my daughter to do something, she needs to do it...end of discussion. I should not have to tell her everyday why she should do her chores when I want them done...one explanation should be enough.

I agree whole heartedly that when it comes to safety issues that explanation is needed, but not every single solitary time.

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!