Ustwo

Maybe if you would have spanked him, he wouldn't have hated you for 6 months.

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shakran

hehe. I don't really care if he hates me I'm not here to be his friend. I'm here to make sure he grows up to not only not be a degenerate, but hopefully to be a productive member of society. Besides, he can hate me now. He'll thank me later

StanT

Here's something we can agree on.

raeanna74

I'd have gotten the chocolate milk, switched off the computer, and poured the milk over the kids head. Made him clean it up after that too. Sorry if I have to rent a carpet shampooer to clean up my kids act. That's ridiculous that any child could THINK about speaking to his parent that way. My daughter is only 5 but she knows she is not allowed to use any vulgar language or demand ANYTHING from me. My response is usually, "I can't hear you when you talk like that". She KNOWS the correct way to talk. My brother spoke harshly to my Mom not too long ago and my daughter caught onto it that it wasn't right. This mom has obviously allowed this to go on too long. Her son has become a bully in his own home. Sorry boy - you're grounded for as long as it takes you to learn to speak respectfully. Oh you're 17? Move out.

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hulk

Sure, worked with your kid. I'll give you an example of mine, and you can let me know what you would do in this situation and I'll suggest to my dad to give it a shot.

My sister is fourteen. She skips school, gets in trouble with the cops (got caught for arson) sleeps around with 18 year old boys, goes out late at night, won't answer her phone and so on. Right little skank who, in her deluded teenage mind, thinks that everyone secretly is insanely jealous of her and is out to get her.

Every bedroom in the house now has a lock on the door because she keeps stealing money from us. Every time you try to talk to her regarding it, she'll start shouting with her own form of an alternate reality where she's always perfect and right yet everybody else has memory issues when it comes to what happens.

As for punishment? Well, she's had her internet rights stripped, her phone confiscated, grounded multiple times, forbidden from seeing friends, more or less everything. Every time she's basically told my dad 'fuck you' and done her own thing, up to the point where he just tolerates it and she gets away with murder. Seriously, she gets pulled in by the cops and the next night she goes out with her friends. A kid like that? What do you do?

Problem all stemmed from earlier childhood. The top four oldest kids (of eight, my family is wierdly divided into two sets) were raised properly. If we did something bad, we damn well know about it because a spank hurt. Sure, we'd cry, but wouldn't stay hurt, it was always open-hand bare sorta thing. After my younger bro, though, nothing really happened. When they acted up, they were sent to their rooms and all that other pointless bullshit that doesn't do anything. The outcome? Well, refer above.

The problem with your ideals, shakran, is it's basically saying one million years of human evolution don't mean shit when it comes to raising kids, don't hurt them because then they'll live in a magical fairy world where nobody gets hurt and everyone will be happy. Newsflash: Kids fight, they hit and push in the playground, because they're kids. They'll throw sticks and sand and get into motor oil and turps and all that other shit, because they're kids. You can either give them the instant feedback that what they're doing is bad, or you can sit them down and feed them bullcrap about how what they do affects others, they'll nod their way through it and not think twice about doing it again.

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Daoust

Those who spank their children do so with this exact same sentiment in mind.

I personally think the spank/don't spank thing has gotten way out of hand. I am a firm believer in spanking, and I will spank my children and I KNOW they will benefit from it. If you don't want to spank your child, that is 100% okay with me...
WHAT I HATE is that those who do not spank somehow believe they have the right to tell me I can't or shouldn't spank my child, that to do so is child abuse, and that I could have my child taken away from me for disciplining my child in a way that's proven to be effective, and beneficial, and healthy. Screw you! Don't you DARE tell me how to raise my child. It's bad enough that I cannnot discipline my child in public for fear of some pansy ass calling the cops on me. What I do for my children will benefit them. I know the difference between corrective loving chastisement and abuse. I don't need you to tell me how to do it.

So here's the final word, non-spankers. You don't spank your child, and I won't say a word to you. I'll let you deal with your own kid. I won't interfere with your parenting. Afford me the same respect, please.

/end rant

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astrahl

shakran -

I think you are being rather naive on the subject. You are assuming your way is best because it is YOUR way. Your kids turned out okay with your way but that doesn't mean it works for all kids.

You have a warped view on abuse. I was spanked by my parents and it was HARDLY abuse...not even close. And that fact that you would "report" something like that is totally insulting.

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sapiens

I tend to agree with shakran that if you can discipline without spanking you should.
You are misrepresenting what shakran said. Your quoted "report" suggests that shakran specifically said that he would report someone for spanking their child. I haven't found such a post in this thread. He did make a distinction below which I agree with:
There is a difference between spanking and throwing a kid into a fridge or beating a kid with a broom handle.

After college I worked in a mental hospital for children. It was a locked unit. Most of the kids were violent. Nearly all of them had been severely abused (more than a spanking). A lot of the staff (not the higher-ups) seemed to feel that all the kids needed was a good beating and they would be fine. The logic was:
"I was beaten as a child and I turned out fine. The same should work for these mentally ill kids."

Of course, many of the kids had been severely beaten, even tortured by their family members. They weren't on their way toward turning out fine. I imagine that if we correlated beatings with productive citizenship, we would find a negative correlation. (People who are beaten more or beaten at all may be less likely to be productive citizens).

More generally, I don't think that spanking versus not spanking makes much of a difference in a child's life. Spanking is a relatively small intervention, unlike the torture of the kids I worked with or beating your child with a broom handle. I think that as long as you are a "good-enough parent" (you provide a safe environment with food and shelter, you're kind, etc.), kids are going to turn out how they will turn out, regardless of how you treat them. (I'm arguing that there are good parents and bad parents, but great parenting makes no difference).

islandflea

Heres my take on "Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child"

When I remarried 7 years ago I "inherited" 2 teens and one a bit younger (in addition to my own girls: 1 teen and 1 pre-teen). My husbands children were: boy/16, girl/14 and one pre-teen @ 12. Mine were 13 and 7.

Brief History: His children had been taken away from an apathetic mother and sent to live with maternal grandparents as his job required 99% travel. I take it the grandparents felt bad for them and allowed them to get away with murder with little corrective action taken. The children were not involved with any type of counseling. Brats! Talk about stepping out of the pan and into the fire. These kids were way out of control!!!

I came into the picture and immediately, the grandparents decided to hand the kids off to me as I would soon be the new step mom, BUT neglected to warn me of any behavioral issues. Now I understand why they were SO willing to let them go...

Putting my teenager (13 at the time & who happened to be hitting a rebelious stage of her own) with his kids who were already out of control was like adding gasoline.

After months of stunts including: stealing my car (in SD they get permits to drive at 14 years old), staying out all night, drugs and alchol, cutting school, tearing up the house, fighting, screaming obscene stuff at me hourly, stealing from me... I engaged a counselor and the school. NO HELP there... Dad/New husband was always gone..NO HELP there... Grandparents insisted the problems were with how I chose to dicipline them...NO HELP there... Mother was glad to be rid of them...you got it...NO HELP there.

So, finally, Id had enough. Now I am not a fighter so this approach took some effort but I decided to take the "battle" to them the next time a situation arose. The very next day the 2 oldest girls flatly refused to stay at home as I directed (for homework or whatever it was). This was about 9pm. I insisted and told them of the consequences if they did not follow directions (grounding). Basically, they laughed at me. As they were heading out the door to meet the boys in the driveway waiting for them...I took my daughter by the arm to redirect her to her room. This CHILD (who happened to be several inches taller than me) shrugged me off and then turned toward me and began screaming. My step daughter jumped in on my other side and they both continued to yell nasty stuff in my face until they were actually red in the face.

Know what? After one wasted moment comtemplating what "loving words" to use to try to difuse the situation I finally (after months of this remember) realized these things:
1) The girls were getting hotter by the second and each was feeding off of the others
anger.
2) The 16 year old boy was becoming interested and was coming toward me with a
nasy look on his face
3) My husbands youngest looked terrified (my youngest was not present thank God)
and I did not want to involve her in this ugly scene
4) I had to stop the progress FAST. Either lock myself in the bathroom or respond

I chose to respond. No, not with "words" ...I actually grew a set and slapped my daughter across the mouth. I turned and raised my hand toward my step daughter while picking up the phone. I told the boy that I was calling the police if he took one step closer. Well, the two girls jumped me...one from behind and one from the front. Only took me getting slammed into the refrigerator once to attain 10 foot status and I started knocking heads (years of being a cook in a mans world had paid off). The boy looked so startled that he took off. The girls were shocked and practically in tears. I probably looked like the devil coming after them as I stood there and DARED them to EVER treat me or anyone else like that ever again!!!

I had spared the rod for too long and once I got my head out of my arse, I found that sometimes it is NECESSARY to provide physical dicipline. In extreme situations, extreme measures are required.

Believe it or not...years later, we all have a pretty good attitude and relationships between us. Only rarely have I experienced this behavior from them since (and that was from the younger two whose memory must have served them enough to remember what can happen...my youngest heard the stories from the older ones).

No, I am not proud of the FEW times I can ever recall hitting anyone but, ya know...it got their attention long enough for a lesson to sink in. It was not necessary to repeat myself. If they had been taught properly while they were young this would have never been necessary.

The Chocolate Milk Kid needed a knock on the head...hopefully once would have been enough to teach a lifetime of respect.

Now, if the CMK was mentally ill or had been abused...whole nother ball game!

shakran

As Sapiens pointed out, I wouldn't report something like that. In fact there's a post up there where I specifically say I wouldn't get worked up about spanking.

My method doesn't prove it's right for all kids but it disproves the notion that spanking is the only thing that can ever work with a kid. I've never spanked my kid, and he's doing just fine.


As to the question of what I'd do with the sister in the above situation, first off I wouldn't give up like your dad did, so my kid would have (and did) grow up learning that there are consequences.


As for what to do right now. . . it might be at the point where military school will work