Facts about fatherless homes - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

tim2shady · 05-25-2005, 07:28 AM

Thought people would find this interesting as well as spark some discussion.

Children from fatherless homes account for:

63% of youth suicides. (Source: US Dept. of Health & Human
Services, Bureau of the Census).

71% of pregnant teenagers. (Source: US Dept. of Health & Human
Services)

90% of all homeless and runaway children.

70% of juveniles in state-operated institutions come from
fatherless homes (Source: U.S. Dept. of Justice, Special Report, Sept
1988)

85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders. (Source:
Center for Disease Control).

80% of rapists motivated with displaced anger. (Source: Criminal
Justice & Behavior, Vol. 14, p. 403-26, 1978).

71% of all high school dropouts. (Source: National Principals
Association Report on the State of High Schools).

75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers. (Source:
Rainbows for all God`s Children).

85% of all youths sitting in prisons. (Source: Fulton Co. Georgia
jail populations, Texas Dept. of Corrections 1992).

Children from fatherless homes are:

11 times more likely to exhibit violent behavior than children from intact "married" homes.

5 times more likely to commit suicide.

32 times more likely to runaway.

20 times more likely to have behavioral disorders.

14 times more likely to commit rape.

9 times more likely to drop out of high school.

10 times more likely to abuse chemical substances.

9 times more likely to end up in state-operated institutions.

20 times more likely to end up in prison.

37.9% of fathers have no access/visitation rights. (Source: p.6,
col.II, para. 6, lines 4 & 5, Census Bureau P-60, #173, Sept 1991.)

"40% of mothers reported that they had interfered with the
non-custodial father's visitation on at least one occasion, to punish
the ex-spouse." (Source: p. 449, col. II, lines 3-6, (citing Fulton)
Frequency of visitation by Divorced Fathers; Differences in Reports by Fathers
and Mothers. Sanford Braver et al, Am. J. of Orthopsychiatry, 1991.)

"Overall, approximately 50% of mothers "see no value in the father`s
continued contact with his children...." (Source: Surviving the Breakup,
Joan Kelly & Judith Wallerstein, p. 125) Only 11% of mothers value their
husband's input when it comes to handling problems with their kids. Teachers &
doctors rated 45%, and close friends & relatives rated %16.(Source: EDK
Associates survey of 500 women for Redbook Magazine. Redbook, November
1994, p. 36)

"The former spouse (mother) was the greatest obstacle to having more
frequent contact with the children." (Source: Increasing our understanding of
fathers who have infrequent contact with their children, James Dudley, Family
Relations, Vol. 4, p. 281, July 1991.)

"A clear majority (70%) of fathers felt that they had too little time with
their children." (Source: Visitation and the Noncustodial Father, Mary Ann
Kock & Carol Lowery, Journal of Divorce, Vol. 8, No. 2, p. 54, Winter 1984.)

"Very few of the children were satisfied with the amount of contact
with their fathers, after divorce." (Source: Visitation and the Noncustodial
Father, Koch & Lowery, Journal of Divorce and Remarriage, Vol. 8, No. 2, p. 50,
Winter 1984.)

"Feelings of anger towards their former spouses hindered effective involvement
on the part of fathers; angry mothers would sometimes sabotage father's
efforts to visit their children." (Source: Ahrons and Miller, Am. Journal of
Orthopsychiatry, Vol. 63. p. 442, July 1993.)

"Mothers may prevent visits to retaliate against fathers for problems in their
marital or post-marital relationship." (Source: Seltzer, Shaeffer & Charing,
Journal of Marriage & the Family, Vol. 51, p. 1015, November 1989.)

In a study: "Visitational Interference - A National Study" by Ms. J
Annette Vanini, M.S.W. and Edward Nichols, M.S.W., it was found that 77% of
non-custodial fathers are NOT able to "visit" their children, as ordered by the
court, as a result of "visitation interference" perpetuated by the
custodial parent. In other words, non-compliance with court ordered visitation
is three times the problem of non-compliance with court ordered child support
and impacts the children of divorce even more. Originally published Sept. 1992

Child Support

Information from multiple sources show that only 10% of all
noncustodial fathers fit the "deadbeat dad" category: 90% of the fathers with
joint custody paid the support due. Fathers with visitation rights pay 79.1%;
and 44.5% of those with NO visitation rights still financially support
their children. (Source: Census Bureau report. Series P-23, No. 173).

Additionally, of those not paying support, 66% are not doing so
because they lack the financial resources to pay (Source: GAO report:
GAO/HRD-92-39 FS).

The following is sourced from: Technical Analysis Paper No. 42, U.S.
Department of Health and Human Services, Office of Income Security
Policy, Authors: Meyer and Garansky.

Custodial mothers who receive a support award: 79.6%
Custodial fathers who receive a support award: 29.9%
Non-custodial mothers who totally default on support: 46.9%
Non-custodial fathers who totally default on support: 26.9%

Redlemon · 05-25-2005, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim2shady

...as well as spark some discussion.

You first (see rule II.H.3). Why are you interested in these statistics? Was your father around? Did you want to leave your wife, but didn't because of these stats? Did you leave your wife, and now you are feeling guilty, and don't want others to do the same?

maleficent · 05-25-2005, 07:42 AM

Sometimes a statistic is just a number, and really doesnt have a lot of bearing in the real world. There are plenty of children in two parent homes who also have those same issues, but because a two parent home isn't out of the ordinary, it's not recorded.

There are also plenty of single parents who are doing a fine job raising their children, but don't get put onto any statistics list because they have done their job raising their children a nd their children don't draw the attention of statisticians.

While I would agree it is best for the child to have two parents that love and take care of it, one parent can do the job just as well.

Some of the quotes sound like they were from people who had no business having children to begin with. I would say a lot of those issues come from the parents not having a good relationship, with each other or with themselves, if the parents were both in the child's life, the issues would be the same.

Bottom line, it's people who are having children that aren't ready to be having children that is the problem. One parent, two parents, an entire village, if the child isn't wanted and loved, then there are going to be problems

feelgood · 05-25-2005, 07:43 AM

Source?

What about motherless homes?

Seeker · 05-25-2005, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

Bottom line, it's people who are having children that aren't ready to be having children that is the problem. One parent, two parents, an entire village, if the child isn't wanted and loved, then there are going to be problems

Seriously (to the OP).. I am a single parent and I couldn't have said this any better (thankyou maleficent), and I cannot think of anything that can add to my feelings right now...

...just maybe, how bloody negative...

tim2shady · 05-25-2005, 08:01 AM

"them's the rules".....well, i'm interested only in getting equal treatment for fathers and mothers when they must go to court to determine custody. I believe courts need to start at 50/50 for visitation, which usually leads to 50/50 sharing of child costs. I feel more equality will lead to better family situations. The stats are just showing how children need both parents OR you can look at how single parent homes are not in the best interest of our children and how they do have a negative impact on society.

tim2shady · 05-25-2005, 08:05 AM

source:
http://indianacrc.org/stats-info.html

Charlatan · 05-25-2005, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim2shady

"them's the rules".....well, i'm interested only in getting equal treatment for fathers and mothers when they must go to court to determine custody. I believe courts need to start at 50/50 for visitation, which usually leads to 50/50 sharing of child costs. I feel more equality will lead to better family situations. The stats are just showing how children need both parents OR you can look at how single parent homes are not in the best interest of our children and how they do have a negative impact on society.

You could also agrue that Fathers are abscent because they choose to be... The stats don't say anything about context and so are just numbers to me...

tim2shady · 05-25-2005, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

You could also agrue that Fathers are abscent because they choose to be... The stats don't say anything about context and so are just numbers to me...

You could also argue that fathers are absent because they were driven away from their children by an evil woman and the unjust court system.

Keep in mind that the other parent, already emotionally unhappy with you, may very well have every intention of using "every trick in the book" against you, even things and people that you would have never dreamed of before.

Charlatan · 05-25-2005, 08:18 AM

Sounds like you have an axe to grind... stop beating around the bush and tell us why you are really posting this...

tim2shady · 05-25-2005, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

Sounds like you have an axe to grind... stop beating around the bush and tell us why you are really posting this...

Perhaps I do, but really I just wanted to hear what others thought about child custody cases where women win the majority of the cases. In some cases, I'm sure they should win custody. But given in many cases all things being equal between the two parents, why would a court NOT rule a 50/50 split? Again, given all things equal and the split being a practical solution given the circumstances.

Redlemon · 05-25-2005, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim2shady

source:
http://indianacrc.org/stats-info.html

First paragraph on their homepage:

Quote:

Thank you for your interest, support, desire and commitment in helping to quickly overturn the most destructive, cancerous, inter-related set of problems existing in America for at least the past three decades - all of which are rooted in, and can be traced back to, the systematic and widespread, absolutely ignorant governmental and judicial devastation of the traditional 'nuclear' family unit, and the resulting massive financial, social, and moral deterioration irresponsibly inflicted upon the People, the Businesses, and the Taxpayers of this Great Nation in wholehearted factory style.

Wow, how evenhanded of them.

I distrust anyone who is that singleminded.

maleficent · 05-25-2005, 08:32 AM

Just because a man doesn't win custody, doesnt mean that he is shoved out of the children's lives, no matter how 'evil' the woman is. Maybe he needs to get over himself a little bit, and be concerned about his children, and not have it matter where the children are living, a nd making quality of the time he does spend with them matter.

Throwing up a bunch of pretty much meaningless statistics does nothing to help the cause of the inequities of child custody cases, because they are just that... statistics... you don't know the context.

I've seen too many divorces where children become the pawn in it and used to do nothing more than hurt the other person. IF both parents actually were interested inthebest interest of the child and not t heir own precious self interests, they would not fight for 100 percent custody, unless the other parent was completely irresponsible (ie crack whore) They loved each other and respected each other enoughonce to have a child - that love and respect, directed at t he child should be used in the divorce.

tim2shady · 05-25-2005, 08:40 AM

source:
http://www.fact.on.ca/Info/pas/lowen99.htm

Who is Most Likely to Practise PAS?

More then 75 per cent of mothers practise PAS, as against 25 per cent of men who alienate. Partly this is due to the view, despite the changes in social and cultural norms, that the mother is the centre of family life. Hence an alienating mother feels she has the greater input and responsibility in caring for the child than the father. Mothers who are on their own feel it is only right that they should have the main or only right to make decisions concerning their children. They will, therefore, use any weapon, fair or foul, to make certain that they have the ultimate power over their children. Among the weapons used are accusations by the mother that the father is unfit to care for or even spend any time with the child. This may be due to allegations of sexual misconduct, alcohol or drug misuse, immorality or poor mental state or lifestyle or possibly criminal involvement. Due to the closeness of the mothers and children, the children will often believe the worse of the other parent.

Charlatan · 05-25-2005, 08:59 AM

I won't dispute that divorces can be a messy thing. I would agree that the default position should be 50/50 and that I see no reason for a system that automatically favours the mother over the father in terms of custody.

That said, I don't feel a parent who does not gain custody should either stop financial support or more importantly, stop being a part of that child's life.

Yes, parents can be idiots. Children can come to believe the worst of their non-custodial parent when the custodial parent chooses to slag them off. That said, the only way to prevent this is to continue to be a part of that child's life.

I approach this as a child of divorce who didn't know his father growing up because my parent's couldn't get their shit together.

BigBen · 05-25-2005, 09:32 AM

Hey, my dad won custody of my brother and I during the 1970's, a time when the mother had all of the legal cards.

Guess what? I ran away, got in trouble with the law, and was generally a fuck-up until my early teens. Single fathers aren't the be-all end-all.

I have friends who had two loving parents, and Guess what? They are as messed up as I am! A traditional "Nuclear Family" structure can also fail. I would argue that they are AS LIKELY TO produce a fuck-up, but alas, I have no statistics to make such a claim...

It is all about providing a disciplined and loving environment that teaches respect for others, respect of self, and emphasizes the child's place in society being valued but not critical.

Ladies and Gentlemen, can we persuade our governments, academics, and mass media to STOP FOCUSING on the bad, and instead promote and teach the GOOD?

Don't tell me how to fuck my kid up emotionally, spiritually and socially. My avoidance of those actions will not necessarily produce a productive member of society. Instead, teach me how to do something positive that will produce good outcomes.

"Don't spank your kid, or they will ______" <-- notice that this negative statement does not fill the void of the action removed?

"When necessary, give the kid a 'Time Out'" <-- this is something positive, and an alternative.

Lead543 · 05-25-2005, 09:44 AM

I think that these statistics are bull. Maybe like back in the 70's and 80's these "facts" were true, but no today. There's a difference between a fatherless home and a broken home. Broken homes exsist in 2 parent families, in marriages and in divorce/separation.

My mom's provided a better home for me then most two parent families. She's always put her kids before herself, listened to us, set up boundaries and kept us organized. At the same time she's held down a full time job and was always home after school and on weekends.

I see more two parent families end up with pregnant kids, drug addicts, in prison then I do single parent homes. Why? Because your behaviour isn't determined whether or not mommy and daddy live together, it's determined by how whatever parents you do have around raise you. If mom and dad are always at work and the single mom is at home after school which daughter is more likely to get pregnant?

These statistics make me mad. They feed a stereotype and excuse behaviour. "Oh, she/he doesn't have a father around, what could you expect?" According to these statistics I should be out pregnant, shooting crack on the streets and raping people with only my grade 9 to show for it.

Divorce sucks, yea, I realise this and most parents do end up dragging their kids through their emotional battlefield. I wish instead of slapping down a bunch of statistics the government would set up some councelling services. And how about throwing out some statistics of children from a home with two working parents?

This makes me mad. /end rant.

Ustwo · 05-25-2005, 10:02 AM

Note my sig.

Democraphics are key here and the stats don't give them.

Its like the murder rate claims in the US. Yes the US has a higher murder rate then western europe, but unless I am a gang member, my chance of being murdred is lower in the US than in most of europe.

Not having a father for many of those stats may be the symptom, but not a cause.

Cynthetiq · 05-25-2005, 10:20 AM

my best friend was raised in a divorced household by his mom. He's more well adjusted than plenty of "nuclear families" etc.

so what's your axe grinding?

ngdawg · 05-25-2005, 10:23 AM

This needs to be amended to :Facts about kids whose parents are screw-ups and/or too busy in their own misery to care about their kids.
My sister was widowed when her sons were 5 and 3. They are now 23 and 20, both fantastic young men, NEVER got into any trouble and are doing well in college and their jobs.
Those statistics are feeding the need to pre-judge by only including children from 'broken homes'(read: traumatic family divisions).
At least post something that is balanced.....

tim2shady · 05-25-2005, 10:31 AM

I'm glad to see all of your input. I agree with many of you that the statistics don't show too much relevant information, but they should make us take a second look....just to be sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lead543

I see more two parent families end up with pregnant kids, drug addicts, in prison then I do single parent homes. Why? Because your behaviour isn't determined whether or not mommy and daddy live together, it's determined by how whatever parents you do have around raise you. /end rant.

Parents may determine your behavior as a child, but once grown I believe you see the choices your making and the responsibility of your action or in-action falls squarely upon your shoulders, not the parents. That being said, I don't think single mothers are to blame for all of these problems the statistics show, but someone is too blame when our children fall prey to these statistics. Who do we choose to blame? The parents of course.....silly.

And if its the parents, then the fewer environments we have where one parent attempts to dissolve the other from playing a role in their childs life the better off we all are. So, be aware of the probleml. Courts need to start at 50/50 and work down from there or up depending on which parent "wins" or is it "lose". Seems to me its always the kid losing and the best we can do is start giving them a 50/50 chance at the onset.

A child should not suffer from the tragedies of a failed relationship.

maleficent · 05-25-2005, 10:43 AM

I remember reading a few years back, that Michigan is the state that stands out in my mind, basically was going to make it mandatory of mom and dad couldn't put aside their petty differences (and it's all petty differences when it comes to children) that the custody would be 50/50. Well, if mom and dad can't be cooperative in a divorce, how would one expect them to be cooperative in joint custody. What about women who are trying to get out of violent or abusive relationships?

The parents need to get their acts together and decide what is in the best interest of the child. Fighting over custody is not. If the parents can't do it, then the courts need to, and the parents have to deal with it.

Cynthetiq · 05-25-2005, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim2shady

I'm glad to see all of your input. I agree with many of you that the statistics don't show too much relevant information, but they should make us take a second look....just to be sure.

Parents may determine your behavior as a child, but once grown I believe you see the choices your making and the responsibility of your action or in-action falls squarely upon your shoulders, not the parents. That being said, I don't think single mothers are to blame for all of these problems the statistics show, but someone is too blame when our children fall prey to these statistics. Who do we choose to blame? The parents of course.....silly.

And if its the parents, then the fewer environments we have where one parent attempts to dissolve the other from playing a role in their childs life the better off we all are. So, be aware of the probleml. Courts need to start at 50/50 and work down from there or up depending on which parent "wins" or is it "lose". Seems to me its always the kid losing and the best we can do is start giving them a 50/50 chance at the onset.

A child should not suffer from the tragedies of a failed relationship.

we don't get to pick who are parents are, we don't get to pick what geographic location we are born in, we don't get to pick what century we are born.

while a child should not suffer the tragedies, it's not just FATHERS that make better families.

I'm going to even then state your whole argument doesn't take into account children raised in same sex relationship households, since your pointing back and for to fathers and mothers.

ShaniFaye · 05-25-2005, 11:06 AM

Does this statistical report cover divorced people only?

What about children without a father because of death?

Ustwo · 05-25-2005, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaniFaye

Does this statistical report cover divorced people only?

What about children without a father because of death?

I have a feeling that most of those numbers came from homes where the parents were never married to start with.

tim2shady · 05-25-2005, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

I'm going to even then state your whole argument doesn't take into account children raised in same sex relationship households, since your pointing back and for to fathers and mothers.

I'm glad you brought up same sex marriage, it nicely illustrates some inequalities that you'll find in our court system. For example, bi-sexual and gay "parents" can lose custody simply because of their sexuality. Alot goes back to civil rights, all should be equal.

And when I say parents, it includes anyone who is responsible for a child, not just the biological ones. And I didn't say not gay parents, so "parents" do include homosexual/bi-sexual/tri-sexual or whatever.

raveneye · 05-25-2005, 11:33 AM

There is a lot of published research on sex differences in parenting styles, and the effects of absent parents on their kids' future lives.

To cut to the chase on this thread's topic: it seems that, as a generalization, fathers have unique positive effects on the development of children of either sex, over and above the contributions provided by the mother. And it is also true (though not as controversial) that mothers have unique and positive effects on the development of children of either sex, over and above contributions provided by the father. So both parents, generally speaking, offer something unique and uniquely valuable to their children that it is difficult (though not impossible of course) for the other parent to provide, and absence of a mother has predictably different effects from absence of a father.

And it is also true that in divorced families, noncustodial fathers tend to drop out of children's lives more often than noncustodial mothers, for various reasons, not always under the control of the father. But in such families, fathers who are aggressive about staying in a parenting role in their children's lives can do so, and when they do, they have a positive effect on the development of their kids over and above the mother's contributions.

In my opinion it is useful to emphasize these studies because the importance of fathers in the lives of their children is often overlooked, especially recently in this country.

I think the research supports a general social policy that, in the absence of unusual circumstances, the default physical custody arrangement should be 50/50.

Here are some pertinent peer-reviewed studies:

Quote:

Amato, P. R. and J. G. Gilbreth (1999). "Nonresident fathers and children's well-being: A meta-analysis." Journal of Marriage and the Family 61(3): 557-573.
We employed meta-analytic methods to pool information from 63 studies dealing with nonresident fathers and children 's well-being. Fathers' payment of child support was positively associated with measures of children's well-being. The frequency of contact with nonresident fathers was not related to child outcomes in general. Two additional dimensions of the father-child relationship-feelings of closeness and authoritative parenting-were positively associated with children's academic success and negatively associated with children's extemalizing and internalizing problems.

....

Another relevant dimension may be the extent to which fathers practice authoritative parenting. Many fathers take their children to restaurants and movies, yet fail to engage in authoritative practices, such as helping with homework, talking about problems, or setting limits (Amato,1987; Furstenberg, Nord, Peterson, & Zill, 1983). Not sharing a residence with children makes it difficult for men to enact the parental role. But some highly motivated nonresident fathers find ways to act like authoritative parents rather than adult companions, and when they do, their children may benefit. Simons, Whitbeck, Beaman, and Conger (1994) examined the extent to which nonresident fathers engaged in authoritative behavior, such as providing emotional support to children, praising children's accomplishments, and disciplining children for misbehavior. Scores on this measure were positively and significantly associated with adolescents' postdivorce adjustment.

Quote:

Bauserman, R. (2002). "Child adjustment in joint-custody versus sole-custody arrangements: A meta-analytic review." Journal of Family Psychology 16(1): 91-102.
The author meta-analyzed studies comparing child adjustment in joint physical or joint legal Custody with sole-custody settings, including comparisons with paternal custody and intact families where possible. Children in joint physical or legal custody were better adjusted than children in sole-custody settings, but no different from those in intact families. More positive adjustment of joint-custody children held for separate comparisons of general adjustment, family relationships, self-esteem, emotional and behavioral adjustment, and divorce-specific adjustment. Joint-custody parents reported less current and past conflict than did sole-custody parents, but this did not explain the better adjustment of joint-custody children. The results are consistent with the hypothesis that joint custody can be advantageous for children in some cases, possibly by facilitating ongoing positive involvement with both parents.

Quote:

Harper, C. C. and S. S. McLanahan (2004). "Father absence and youth incarceration." Journal of Research on Adolescence 14(3): 369-397.
This study measured the likelihood of youth incarceration among adolescent males from father-absent households, using data from the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth (N = 34,031 person-years). At baseline, the adolescents ranged from 14 to 17 years, and the incarceration outcome measure spanned ages 15 to 30 years. This study tested whether risk factors concentrated in father-absent households explained the apparent effects of father absence. Results from longitudinal event-history analysis showed that although a sizable portion of the risk that appeared to be due to father absence could actually be attributed to other factors, such as teen motherhood, low parent education, racial inequalities, and poverty, adolescents in father-absent households still faced elevated incarceration risks. The adolescents who faced the highest incarceration risks, however, were those in stepparent families, including father-stepmother families. Coresidential grandparents may help attenuate this risk, although remarriage and residential instability increased it. Social policies to support children should broaden beyond an emphasis on marriage to address the risks faced by adolescents living in stepfamilies as well.

Quote:

Videon, T. M. (2005). "Parent-child relations and children's psychological well-being - Do dads matter'?" Journal of Family Issues 26(1): 55-78.
This study explores the unique influence of fathers on adolescents' psychological well-being. Analyses are based on a nationally representative sample (Add Health) of students in Grades 7 through 12 living in intact homes. Results of multivariate analyses reveal that the father-adolescent relationship has an independent impact on adolescents' psychological well-being beyond the mother-adolescent relationship. Comparatively, the magnitude of effect was similar for mothers and fathers on sons' and daughters' well-being. Examining the dynamic nature of parent-adolescent relations through time revealed that adolescents have more volatile relations with fathers than with mothers. Changes in adolescent's satisfaction with the father-adolescent relationship significantly influence fluctuations in son's and daughter's psychological well-being; this effect persists after controlling for changes in mother-adolescent relationships. These findings underscore fathers' unique direct contribution to their children's psychological well-being.

Quote:

Amato, P. R. (1994). "Father-Child Relations, Mother-Child Relations, and Offspring Psychological Well-Being in Early Adulthood." Journal of Marriage and the Family 56(4): 1031-1042.
The present study, based on a national sample of 471 young adults, finds that closeness of fathers makes a unique contribution to offspring happiness, life satisfaction, and psychological distress. Parental divorce weakens the salience of the father-child relationship for adult children's life satisfaction. Similarly, marriage, parenthood, and full-time employment diminish the salience of both the mother-child and the father-child relationship for offspring well-being. Closeness to stepfathers is also related to some dimensions of offspring well-being. Overall, these findings suggest that fathers are important figures in the lives of young adults.

Quote:

Teachman, J., R. Day, et al. (1998). "Sibling resemblance in behavioral and cognitive outcomes: The role of father presence." Journal of Marriage and the Family 60(4): 835-848.
Using longitudinal data on sibling pairs from the National Longitudinal Study of Youth, we investigate the influence of father presence on behavioral and cognitive outcomes for children. Our results indicate that children who live in one-parent families exhibit more behavioral problems and have lower mathematics and reading ability than children in two-parent families. The differences across time between children in two-parent and one-parent families are very stable for behavioral problems and mathematics ability. For reading ability, however the difference between children in two-parent and one-parent families increases over time.

Quote:

Flouri, E., A. Buchanan, et al. (2002). "Adolescents' perceptions of their fathers' involvement: Significance to school attitudes." Psychology in the Schools 39(5): 575-582.
Based on data from 2,722 British adolescents aged 14-18 years, this study explored whether perceived father involvement can be associated with school attitudes even after controlling for perceived mother involvement. Multiple regression analysis showed that both father involvement and mother involvement contributed significantly and independently to positive school attitudes. Furthermore, the association between father involvement and school attitudes was the same for sons and daughters. We did not find evidence to support the notion that being in a non-intact family weakens the association between perceived father involvement and school attitudes. Finally, there was no evidence suggesting that the impact of perceived father involvement on school attitudes depends on the level of perceived mother involvement. (C) 2002, Wiley Periodicals, Inc.

Quote:

Flouri, E. and A. Buchanan (2002). "Life satisfaction in teenage boys: The moderating role of father involvement and bullying." Aggressive Behavior 28(2): 126-133.
It has been suggested that bullying at school and low social support are related to relatively poor mental health in schoolchildren. Based on data from 1344 adolescent boys aged 13-19 years in Britain, this study explored whether father involvement, as an underestimated-in the related research-source of social support, can protect against low levels of satisfaction with life. Multiple regression analysis showed that low father involvement and peer victimization contributed significantly and independently to low levels of life satisfaction in adolescent boys. There was also evidence relating to a buffering effect of father involvement in that father involvement protected children from extreme victimization. (C) 2002 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

Quote:

McLanahan, S. S. and M. J. Carlson (2002). "Welfare reform, fertility, and father involvement." Future of Children 12(1): 147-165.
Recognizing that most poor families are single-parent families, the federal welfare reform law of 1996 emphasized the responsibility of both parents to support their children. In addition to strengthening the child support enforcement system, the law included several provisions designed to decrease childbearing outside of marriage and to promote two-parent families. This article focuses on the important role that fathers play in children's lives and how public policies have affected childbearing and father involvement. Key observations are: Compared with children living with both biological parents, children in father-absent families often have fewer economic and socioemotional resources from their parents, and do not fare as well on many outcome measures. Efforts to reduce the rising number of father-absent families by focusing on preventing unwanted pregnancy among unmarried women, especially teen girls, have met with some success; those programs seeking to alter adolescents' life opportunities in addition to providing education or family planning services appear to hold the most promise. Efforts to encourage greater father involvement by focusing almost exclusively on increasing absent parents' child support payments reap only minimal benefits for poor children because their absent parents often have few resources and little incentive to make support payments. To date, efforts to increase the emotional involvement of unmarried fathers with their children have produced disappointing results, but new research suggests that such programs can make a difference when targeting fathers at the time of a child's birth. Many children spend some time living away from their fathers, deprived of the financial and emotional resources they can provide. Because of the importance of fathers to child well-being, the authors conclude that new directions in research and public policies are needed to encourage greater father involvement across the wide diversity of family arrangements in society today.

Quote:

Flouri, E. and A. Buchanan (2004). "Early father's and mother's involvement and child's later educational outcomes." British Journal of Educational Psychology 74: 141-153.
Background. Few studies have investigated the individual long-term contributions that mothers and fathers make to their children's schooling. Aims. (1) To explore the role of early father involvement in children's later educational attainment independently of the role of early mother involvement and other confounds, (2) to investigate whether gender and family structure moderate the relationship between father's and mother's involvement and child's educational attainment, and (3) to explore whether the impact of father's involvement depends on the level of mother's involvement. Sample. The study used longitudinal data from the National Child Development Study. The initial sample were those 7,259 cohort members with valid data on mother involvement at age 7, father involvement at age 7, and school-leaving qualification by age 20. Of those, 3,303 were included in the final analysis. Method. The measures were control variables, structural factors (family structure, sibship size and residential mobility), child factors (emotional/behavioural problems, cognitive ability and academic motivation), and father's and mother's involvement. Results. Father involvement and mother involvement at age 7 independently predicted educational attainment by age 20. The association between parents' involvement and educational attainment was not stronger for sons than for daughters. Father involvement was not more important for educational attainment when mother involvement was low rather than high. Not growing up in intact two-parent family did not weaken the association between father's or mother's involvement and educational outcomes. Conclusion. Early father involvement can be another protective factor in counteracting risk conditions that might lead to later low attainment levels.

Seeker · 05-25-2005, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim2shady

I'm glad to see all of your input. I agree with many of you that the statistics don't show too much relevant information, but they should make us take a second look....just to be sure.

Parents may determine your behavior as a child, but once grown I believe you see the choices your making and the responsibility of your action or in-action falls squarely upon your shoulders, not the parents. That being said, I don't think single mothers are to blame for all of these problems the statistics show, but someone is too blame when our children fall prey to these statistics. Who do we choose to blame? The parents of course.....silly.

And if its the parents, then the fewer environments we have where one parent attempts to dissolve the other from playing a role in their childs life the better off we all are. So, be aware of the probleml. Courts need to start at 50/50 and work down from there or up depending on which parent "wins" or is it "lose". Seems to me its always the kid losing and the best we can do is start giving them a 50/50 chance at the onset.

A child should not suffer from the tragedies of a failed relationship.

I appreciate your thoughts about this, but I can't help but feel you are looking at this from one perspective only.

I see many cases where the 'arrangements' between parents, and ruled by the courts, are made on a case by case basis. There may be perceived inequalities, but on the whole I still see these decisions are made on a case by case basis.

I would really like to know if you have a child? Are you in this position and discussing this from an experience perspective? If not, are you looking to re-think your position or thoughts on this subject?

jorgelito · 05-25-2005, 05:14 PM

I am interested in seeing how the numbers are in other countries. To get a cultural perspective. In the US, divorce rates are 60% and people are "proud of it". I personally think our society has decayed - it doesn't matter if it single mom or single dad, you NEED BOTH, and preferably grandparents, cousins etc.

Our society has become uncommitted these days. It's our culture. We need to take responsibility and accountability for ourselves. Don't have kids if you can't/won't commit, don't get married if you can't/won't commit. We are way too "me oriented" and selfish. These statistics sound about right to me and does not surprise me one bit.

This is not a dad or mom issue, it's a dad&mom issue.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who "have a friend raised by a single-parent and is the most well-adjusted out of all of us" or think there is some axe to grind. But I think that misses the larger issue. The decay and breakdown of the family in our society.

Demeter · 05-25-2005, 07:39 PM

1 loving stable parent beats the hell out of two disfunctional ones. (oh- bad visual there)
There is more to this than the absentee father.
Its the poverty, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, child abuse, lack of education,
and simple coincidence that seeps through all families and is a common thread,
I'm sure, through this whole scenario, not just feelings of abandonment.
What I hate is that they spend so much money on doing surveys on this, instead of just putting the money into support & education programs where it may do some good.

And yes, what about the motherless families, thats gotta be a hard go too.

Vincentt · 05-26-2005, 06:11 AM

I grew up in a 'fatherless' home. I didn't meet my father until I was in college.
I really feel everything that happened, happened for the best, because where I am now is good.

I don't want to blame my problems on my father 'not being there'... I am responsible for my own actions. As are all the people above.

It must be great to have the mind set that allows you to blame everyone else for all of your mistakes.

getwonk'd · 05-26-2005, 08:14 AM

I'll add my two cents worth on the subject.

We have the his, hers, ours thing going on here. We also have custody of all of the kids which equal 5. Four of the children still live with us. My husbands oldest daughter is 17 and didn't like the rules and expectations, so she left to go live with her mother about six months ago. Since she left, she has started smoking, drinking, skipping school and runs around wild because there is no supervision. Her mother has 8 criminal cases open against her. We tryed to get her back but got no help from the police, social services. Nobody would help and we don't have enough money to go into court.

As you can probably tell, my husbands ex is in the girls lives. She is ordered to pay $60 per week for two teenage girls (we hold insurance) and we haven't seen a dime in almost two years. She expects me, the new wife to do all the running for the girls like taking them to the doctor, even when she has them on her weekend. She expects me to be the mom and her to have the title. Which is fine, they are my children. I may not have given birth to them, but I'm still their mother and I love them like my own.

On the other hand, my ex is also in the kids lives. We have a great relationship. We just weren't ment to be married. He however probably would be just fine not seeing the kids. I push the issue because they love their father and miss him. He is very good to them when they are at his house. But if I didn't call to set up visits, he wouldn't make the effort. He does however pay child support and have insurance on the kids.

I believe that the kids well being should be first. I don't care much for stats. Kids are what we make them. If you raise them to be criminals they will be criminals. If you raise them to be loving law abiding citizens, then thats what they will be. (Usually)

They key is no matter what, let them know unconditional love and forgiveness for their mistakes. Maybe I'm off the suject a bit, but sparked some feelings on the subject of divorced parents and the best for the kids.

Sage · 05-26-2005, 08:55 AM

Something that these stats don't address, and something which was talked about extensively in my Sociology classes in college, is that when you say something like "children from fatherless homes are blah blah blah" you're not taking into account WHY the children are fatherless to begin with. Are their parents middle class and white, and just got a divorce, or are these children from poor famlies with fathers who are in prison? If you're poor and your dad is in prison, it makes sense that where you live there is a lot of crime and possibly a higher oppurtunity for you (the kid) to get into trouble. These stats aren't taking into account the whole picture of society from which these "troubled kids" come from.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc- the fallacy of saying that "because B happens after A, B happens BECAUSE of A." We don't know if these kids are in trouble because their dads are nonexistent, or because they live in poverty where the only percieved way to "get ahead" is to sell drugs, be in a gang, or date a drug dealer. Always look at the broader spectrum.

Redlemon · 05-26-2005, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage

Post hoc ergo propter hoc- the fallacy of saying that "because B happens after A, B happens BECAUSE of A." We don't know if these kids are in trouble because their dads are nonexistent, or because they live in poverty where the only percieved way to "get ahead" is to sell drugs, be in a gang, or date a drug dealer. Always look at the broader spectrum.

Quite right; and, when you read any article with lots of statistics, always keep in mind The Dread Tomato Addiction by Mark Clifton.

Quote:

Ninety-two point four percent of juvenile delinquents have eaten tomatoes.

Eighty-seven point one percent of the adult criminals in penitentiaries throughout the United States have eaten tomatoes.

Informers reliably inform that of all known American communists, ninety-two point three percent have eaten tomatoes.

...

MSD · 05-26-2005, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

I have a feeling that most of those numbers came from homes where the parents were never married to start with.

I have a feeling that many of those cases also come from areas where single-mother homes are common, such as high-crim, high-poverty areas. This is a situation in which statistics are being used to advance an agenda without consideration of other factors. Statistically, there is most likely no correlation after these other factors are removed.

Astrocloud · 05-26-2005, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage

you're not taking into account WHY the children are fatherless to begin with. Are their parents middle class and white, and just got a divorce, or are these children from poor famlies with fathers who are in prison?
...

Post hoc ergo propter hoc- the fallacy of saying that "because B happens after A, B happens BECAUSE of A." We don't know if these kids are in trouble because their dads are nonexistent, or because they live in poverty where the only percieved way to "get ahead" is to sell drugs, be in a gang, or date a drug dealer. Always look at the broader spectrum.

From a quoted source earlier:

Changes in adolescent's satisfaction with the father-adolescent relationship significantly influence fluctuations in son's and daughter's psychological well-being; this effect persists after controlling for changes in mother-adolescent relationships. These findings underscore fathers' unique direct contribution to their children's psychological well-being.

This reasoning indicates that the lack of having a father in ones life is independant of race and culture. To be completely convincing they'd have to target particular regions of the brain that are stimulated or not being stimulated by a male parental role model.

raeanna74 · 05-26-2005, 02:11 PM

They don't deliniate in these statistics as to how many of these children are a result of one night stands and the mother doesn't even know which man she's been with is the father. A mother who is careless about her reproductive abilities is going to be just as careless about her children. If father's could have children then I have a feeling that the statistics would show that this is a problem for single parent homes not just fatherless homes.

Divorce is never pretty and the children that end up caught in it often have emotional problems - so what is the cause of the statistics really?

My brother is just now trying to go through divorce. His son may very well end up in trouble. SIL has lost custody of her first child to her first boyfriend. My brother is trying to avoid going to a lawyer. My SIL is trying to convince me to babysit for her but hide the fact from my brother and refuse to let him visit his child. I'm NOT gonna get caught in that. The subject of single parents homes/divorce and such is a little sensitive subject for me right now. I wish more parents would suck it up and take responsibility for their kids... I'm gonna shut up now.

inkriminator · 06-07-2005, 07:18 AM

I don't see how a 50/50 split would work out realistically. Before the child goes to school, it could easily work. But once the child passes the age of 5, what're you going to do, keep them in one school for one semester, in another for another? Switch schools on a yearly basis? I guess you could keep the child at one home during the school year and at another during the summer, but is that fair to the child? when during their vacation they are away from most of their friends? (I'm assuming some geographical distance between the parents, which may not always be the case) I think the system as it stands will be as good as it gets. The courts rule who should gain major custody, and the amount of involvement by the non-custodial parent will be mostly related to how much that parent wants to be involved

Astrocloud · 06-07-2005, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raeanna74

They don't deliniate in these statistics as to how many of these children are a result of one night stands and the mother doesn't even know which man she's been with is the father. A mother who is careless about her reproductive abilities is going to be just as careless about her children. If father's could have children then I have a feeling that the statistics would show that this is a problem for single parent homes not just fatherless homes.

Again from an earlier source:

Results from longitudinal event-history analysis showed that although a sizable portion of the risk that appeared to be due to father absence could actually be attributed to other factors, such as teen motherhood, low parent education, racial inequalities, and poverty, adolescents in father-absent households still faced elevated incarceration risks.

BTW -I am from a father absent houshold and I came within a hair of being sent to jail for 10 years when I was about 18. Perhaps the real contributing factor is that fathers usually know about a good lawyer...

irateplatypus · 06-07-2005, 05:48 PM

nothing to add yet... just puzzled at the suspicion and hostility directed towards the topic.

05-25-2005, 07:28 AM	#1 (permalink)
tim2shady Tilted Location: Chicago, IL	Facts about fatherless homes Thought people would find this interesting as well as spark some discussion. Children from fatherless homes account for: 63% of youth suicides. (Source: US Dept. of Health & Human Services, Bureau of the Census). 71% of pregnant teenagers. (Source: US Dept. of Health & Human Services) 90% of all homeless and runaway children. 70% of juveniles in state-operated institutions come from fatherless homes (Source: U.S. Dept. of Justice, Special Report, Sept 1988) 85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders. (Source: Center for Disease Control). 80% of rapists motivated with displaced anger. (Source: Criminal Justice & Behavior, Vol. 14, p. 403-26, 1978). 71% of all high school dropouts. (Source: National Principals Association Report on the State of High Schools). 75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers. (Source: Rainbows for all God`s Children). 85% of all youths sitting in prisons. (Source: Fulton Co. Georgia jail populations, Texas Dept. of Corrections 1992). Children from fatherless homes are: 11 times more likely to exhibit violent behavior than children from intact "married" homes. 5 times more likely to commit suicide. 32 times more likely to runaway. 20 times more likely to have behavioral disorders. 14 times more likely to commit rape. 9 times more likely to drop out of high school. 10 times more likely to abuse chemical substances. 9 times more likely to end up in state-operated institutions. 20 times more likely to end up in prison. 37.9% of fathers have no access/visitation rights. (Source: p.6, col.II, para. 6, lines 4 & 5, Census Bureau P-60, #173, Sept 1991.) "40% of mothers reported that they had interfered with the non-custodial father's visitation on at least one occasion, to punish the ex-spouse." (Source: p. 449, col. II, lines 3-6, (citing Fulton) Frequency of visitation by Divorced Fathers; Differences in Reports by Fathers and Mothers. Sanford Braver et al, Am. J. of Orthopsychiatry, 1991.) "Overall, approximately 50% of mothers "see no value in the father`s continued contact with his children...." (Source: Surviving the Breakup, Joan Kelly & Judith Wallerstein, p. 125) Only 11% of mothers value their husband's input when it comes to handling problems with their kids. Teachers & doctors rated 45%, and close friends & relatives rated %16.(Source: EDK Associates survey of 500 women for Redbook Magazine. Redbook, November 1994, p. 36) "The former spouse (mother) was the greatest obstacle to having more frequent contact with the children." (Source: Increasing our understanding of fathers who have infrequent contact with their children, James Dudley, Family Relations, Vol. 4, p. 281, July 1991.) "A clear majority (70%) of fathers felt that they had too little time with their children." (Source: Visitation and the Noncustodial Father, Mary Ann Kock & Carol Lowery, Journal of Divorce, Vol. 8, No. 2, p. 54, Winter 1984.) "Very few of the children were satisfied with the amount of contact with their fathers, after divorce." (Source: Visitation and the Noncustodial Father, Koch & Lowery, Journal of Divorce and Remarriage, Vol. 8, No. 2, p. 50, Winter 1984.) "Feelings of anger towards their former spouses hindered effective involvement on the part of fathers; angry mothers would sometimes sabotage father's efforts to visit their children." (Source: Ahrons and Miller, Am. Journal of Orthopsychiatry, Vol. 63. p. 442, July 1993.) "Mothers may prevent visits to retaliate against fathers for problems in their marital or post-marital relationship." (Source: Seltzer, Shaeffer & Charing, Journal of Marriage & the Family, Vol. 51, p. 1015, November 1989.) In a study: "Visitational Interference - A National Study" by Ms. J Annette Vanini, M.S.W. and Edward Nichols, M.S.W., it was found that 77% of non-custodial fathers are NOT able to "visit" their children, as ordered by the court, as a result of "visitation interference" perpetuated by the custodial parent. In other words, non-compliance with court ordered visitation is three times the problem of non-compliance with court ordered child support and impacts the children of divorce even more. Originally published Sept. 1992 Child Support Information from multiple sources show that only 10% of all noncustodial fathers fit the "deadbeat dad" category: 90% of the fathers with joint custody paid the support due. Fathers with visitation rights pay 79.1%; and 44.5% of those with NO visitation rights still financially support their children. (Source: Census Bureau report. Series P-23, No. 173). Additionally, of those not paying support, 66% are not doing so because they lack the financial resources to pay (Source: GAO report: GAO/HRD-92-39 FS). The following is sourced from: Technical Analysis Paper No. 42, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Office of Income Security Policy, Authors: Meyer and Garansky. Custodial mothers who receive a support award: 79.6% Custodial fathers who receive a support award: 29.9% Non-custodial mothers who totally default on support: 46.9% Non-custodial fathers who totally default on support: 26.9% __________________ mean people suck.....period.

05-25-2005, 07:42 AM	#3 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	Sometimes a statistic is just a number, and really doesnt have a lot of bearing in the real world. There are plenty of children in two parent homes who also have those same issues, but because a two parent home isn't out of the ordinary, it's not recorded. There are also plenty of single parents who are doing a fine job raising their children, but don't get put onto any statistics list because they have done their job raising their children a nd their children don't draw the attention of statisticians. While I would agree it is best for the child to have two parents that love and take care of it, one parent can do the job just as well. Some of the quotes sound like they were from people who had no business having children to begin with. I would say a lot of those issues come from the parents not having a good relationship, with each other or with themselves, if the parents were both in the child's life, the issues would be the same. Bottom line, it's people who are having children that aren't ready to be having children that is the problem. One parent, two parents, an entire village, if the child isn't wanted and loved, then there are going to be problems __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

05-25-2005, 07:43 AM	#4 (permalink)
feelgood Free Mars! Location: I dunno, there's white people around me saying "eh" all the time	Source? What about motherless homes? __________________ Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

05-25-2005, 08:01 AM	#6 (permalink)
tim2shady Tilted Location: Chicago, IL	"them's the rules".....well, i'm interested only in getting equal treatment for fathers and mothers when they must go to court to determine custody. I believe courts need to start at 50/50 for visitation, which usually leads to 50/50 sharing of child costs. I feel more equality will lead to better family situations. The stats are just showing how children need both parents OR you can look at how single parent homes are not in the best interest of our children and how they do have a negative impact on society. __________________ mean people suck.....period.

05-25-2005, 08:05 AM	#7 (permalink)
tim2shady Tilted Location: Chicago, IL	source: http://indianacrc.org/stats-info.html __________________ mean people suck.....period.

05-25-2005, 08:18 AM	#10 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Sounds like you have an axe to grind... stop beating around the bush and tell us why you are really posting this... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

05-25-2005, 08:32 AM	#13 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	Just because a man doesn't win custody, doesnt mean that he is shoved out of the children's lives, no matter how 'evil' the woman is. Maybe he needs to get over himself a little bit, and be concerned about his children, and not have it matter where the children are living, a nd making quality of the time he does spend with them matter. Throwing up a bunch of pretty much meaningless statistics does nothing to help the cause of the inequities of child custody cases, because they are just that... statistics... you don't know the context. I've seen too many divorces where children become the pawn in it and used to do nothing more than hurt the other person. IF both parents actually were interested inthebest interest of the child and not t heir own precious self interests, they would not fight for 100 percent custody, unless the other parent was completely irresponsible (ie crack whore) They loved each other and respected each other enoughonce to have a child - that love and respect, directed at t he child should be used in the divorce. __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

05-25-2005, 08:40 AM	#14 (permalink)
tim2shady Tilted Location: Chicago, IL	source: http://www.fact.on.ca/Info/pas/lowen99.htm Who is Most Likely to Practise PAS? More then 75 per cent of mothers practise PAS, as against 25 per cent of men who alienate. Partly this is due to the view, despite the changes in social and cultural norms, that the mother is the centre of family life. Hence an alienating mother feels she has the greater input and responsibility in caring for the child than the father. Mothers who are on their own feel it is only right that they should have the main or only right to make decisions concerning their children. They will, therefore, use any weapon, fair or foul, to make certain that they have the ultimate power over their children. Among the weapons used are accusations by the mother that the father is unfit to care for or even spend any time with the child. This may be due to allegations of sexual misconduct, alcohol or drug misuse, immorality or poor mental state or lifestyle or possibly criminal involvement. Due to the closeness of the mothers and children, the children will often believe the worse of the other parent. __________________ mean people suck.....period.

05-25-2005, 08:59 AM	#15 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I won't dispute that divorces can be a messy thing. I would agree that the default position should be 50/50 and that I see no reason for a system that automatically favours the mother over the father in terms of custody. That said, I don't feel a parent who does not gain custody should either stop financial support or more importantly, stop being a part of that child's life. Yes, parents can be idiots. Children can come to believe the worst of their non-custodial parent when the custodial parent chooses to slag them off. That said, the only way to prevent this is to continue to be a part of that child's life. I approach this as a child of divorce who didn't know his father growing up because my parent's couldn't get their shit together. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

05-25-2005, 09:32 AM	#16 (permalink)
BigBen Comedian Location: Use the search button	Hey, my dad won custody of my brother and I during the 1970's, a time when the mother had all of the legal cards. Guess what? I ran away, got in trouble with the law, and was generally a fuck-up until my early teens. Single fathers aren't the be-all end-all. I have friends who had two loving parents, and Guess what? They are as messed up as I am! A traditional "Nuclear Family" structure can also fail. I would argue that they are AS LIKELY TO produce a fuck-up, but alas, I have no statistics to make such a claim... It is all about providing a disciplined and loving environment that teaches respect for others, respect of self, and emphasizes the child's place in society being valued but not critical. Ladies and Gentlemen, can we persuade our governments, academics, and mass media to STOP FOCUSING on the bad, and instead promote and teach the GOOD? Don't tell me how to fuck my kid up emotionally, spiritually and socially. My avoidance of those actions will not necessarily produce a productive member of society. Instead, teach me how to do something positive that will produce good outcomes. "Don't spank your kid, or they will ______" <-- notice that this negative statement does not fill the void of the action removed? "When necessary, give the kid a 'Time Out'" <-- this is something positive, and an alternative. __________________ 3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

05-25-2005, 09:44 AM	#17 (permalink)
Lead543 Registered User Location: Calgary	I think that these statistics are bull. Maybe like back in the 70's and 80's these "facts" were true, but no today. There's a difference between a fatherless home and a broken home. Broken homes exsist in 2 parent families, in marriages and in divorce/separation. My mom's provided a better home for me then most two parent families. She's always put her kids before herself, listened to us, set up boundaries and kept us organized. At the same time she's held down a full time job and was always home after school and on weekends. I see more two parent families end up with pregnant kids, drug addicts, in prison then I do single parent homes. Why? Because your behaviour isn't determined whether or not mommy and daddy live together, it's determined by how whatever parents you do have around raise you. If mom and dad are always at work and the single mom is at home after school which daughter is more likely to get pregnant? These statistics make me mad. They feed a stereotype and excuse behaviour. "Oh, she/he doesn't have a father around, what could you expect?" According to these statistics I should be out pregnant, shooting crack on the streets and raping people with only my grade 9 to show for it. Divorce sucks, yea, I realise this and most parents do end up dragging their kids through their emotional battlefield. I wish instead of slapping down a bunch of statistics the government would set up some councelling services. And how about throwing out some statistics of children from a home with two working parents? This makes me mad. /end rant.

05-25-2005, 10:02 AM	#18 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Note my sig. Democraphics are key here and the stats don't give them. Its like the murder rate claims in the US. Yes the US has a higher murder rate then western europe, but unless I am a gang member, my chance of being murdred is lower in the US than in most of europe. Not having a father for many of those stats may be the symptom, but not a cause. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

05-25-2005, 10:20 AM	#19 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	my best friend was raised in a divorced household by his mom. He's more well adjusted than plenty of "nuclear families" etc. so what's your axe grinding? __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

05-25-2005, 10:23 AM	#20 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	This needs to be amended to :Facts about kids whose parents are screw-ups and/or too busy in their own misery to care about their kids. My sister was widowed when her sons were 5 and 3. They are now 23 and 20, both fantastic young men, NEVER got into any trouble and are doing well in college and their jobs. Those statistics are feeding the need to pre-judge by only including children from 'broken homes'(read: traumatic family divisions). At least post something that is balanced..... __________________ Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

05-25-2005, 10:43 AM	#22 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	I remember reading a few years back, that Michigan is the state that stands out in my mind, basically was going to make it mandatory of mom and dad couldn't put aside their petty differences (and it's all petty differences when it comes to children) that the custody would be 50/50. Well, if mom and dad can't be cooperative in a divorce, how would one expect them to be cooperative in joint custody. What about women who are trying to get out of violent or abusive relationships? The parents need to get their acts together and decide what is in the best interest of the child. Fighting over custody is not. If the parents can't do it, then the courts need to, and the parents have to deal with it. __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

05-25-2005, 11:06 AM	#24 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	Does this statistical report cover divorced people only? What about children without a father because of death? __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

05-25-2005, 05:14 PM	#29 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	I am interested in seeing how the numbers are in other countries. To get a cultural perspective. In the US, divorce rates are 60% and people are "proud of it". I personally think our society has decayed - it doesn't matter if it single mom or single dad, you NEED BOTH, and preferably grandparents, cousins etc. Our society has become uncommitted these days. It's our culture. We need to take responsibility and accountability for ourselves. Don't have kids if you can't/won't commit, don't get married if you can't/won't commit. We are way too "me oriented" and selfish. These statistics sound about right to me and does not surprise me one bit. This is not a dad or mom issue, it's a dad&mom issue. I'm sure there are plenty of people who "have a friend raised by a single-parent and is the most well-adjusted out of all of us" or think there is some axe to grind. But I think that misses the larger issue. The decay and breakdown of the family in our society.

05-25-2005, 07:39 PM	#30 (permalink)
Demeter Psycho	1 loving stable parent beats the hell out of two disfunctional ones. (oh- bad visual there) There is more to this than the absentee father. Its the poverty, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, child abuse, lack of education, and simple coincidence that seeps through all families and is a common thread, I'm sure, through this whole scenario, not just feelings of abandonment. What I hate is that they spend so much money on doing surveys on this, instead of just putting the money into support & education programs where it may do some good. And yes, what about the motherless families, thats gotta be a hard go too. __________________ I am not bound to please thee with my answers. William Shakespeare

05-26-2005, 06:11 AM	#31 (permalink)
Vincentt Addict Location: Tokyo, Japan	I grew up in a 'fatherless' home. I didn't meet my father until I was in college. I really feel everything that happened, happened for the best, because where I am now is good. I don't want to blame my problems on my father 'not being there'... I am responsible for my own actions. As are all the people above. It must be great to have the mind set that allows you to blame everyone else for all of your mistakes. __________________ .

05-26-2005, 08:14 AM	#32 (permalink)
getwonk'd Tilted Location: Central Wisconsin	I'll add my two cents worth on the subject. We have the his, hers, ours thing going on here. We also have custody of all of the kids which equal 5. Four of the children still live with us. My husbands oldest daughter is 17 and didn't like the rules and expectations, so she left to go live with her mother about six months ago. Since she left, she has started smoking, drinking, skipping school and runs around wild because there is no supervision. Her mother has 8 criminal cases open against her. We tryed to get her back but got no help from the police, social services. Nobody would help and we don't have enough money to go into court. As you can probably tell, my husbands ex is in the girls lives. She is ordered to pay $60 per week for two teenage girls (we hold insurance) and we haven't seen a dime in almost two years. She expects me, the new wife to do all the running for the girls like taking them to the doctor, even when she has them on her weekend. She expects me to be the mom and her to have the title. Which is fine, they are my children. I may not have given birth to them, but I'm still their mother and I love them like my own. On the other hand, my ex is also in the kids lives. We have a great relationship. We just weren't ment to be married. He however probably would be just fine not seeing the kids. I push the issue because they love their father and miss him. He is very good to them when they are at his house. But if I didn't call to set up visits, he wouldn't make the effort. He does however pay child support and have insurance on the kids. I believe that the kids well being should be first. I don't care much for stats. Kids are what we make them. If you raise them to be criminals they will be criminals. If you raise them to be loving law abiding citizens, then thats what they will be. (Usually) They key is no matter what, let them know unconditional love and forgiveness for their mistakes. Maybe I'm off the suject a bit, but sparked some feelings on the subject of divorced parents and the best for the kids.

05-26-2005, 08:55 AM	#33 (permalink)
Sage hoarding all the big girl panties since 2005 Location: North side	Something that these stats don't address, and something which was talked about extensively in my Sociology classes in college, is that when you say something like "children from fatherless homes are blah blah blah" you're not taking into account WHY the children are fatherless to begin with. Are their parents middle class and white, and just got a divorce, or are these children from poor famlies with fathers who are in prison? If you're poor and your dad is in prison, it makes sense that where you live there is a lot of crime and possibly a higher oppurtunity for you (the kid) to get into trouble. These stats aren't taking into account the whole picture of society from which these "troubled kids" come from. Post hoc ergo propter hoc- the fallacy of saying that "because B happens after A, B happens BECAUSE of A." We don't know if these kids are in trouble because their dads are nonexistent, or because they live in poverty where the only percieved way to "get ahead" is to sell drugs, be in a gang, or date a drug dealer. Always look at the broader spectrum. __________________ Sage knows our mythic history, King Arthur's and Sir Caradoc's She answers hard acrostics, has a pretty taste for paradox She quotes in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus In conics she can floor peculiarities parabolous -C'hi

05-26-2005, 02:11 PM	#37 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	They don't deliniate in these statistics as to how many of these children are a result of one night stands and the mother doesn't even know which man she's been with is the father. A mother who is careless about her reproductive abilities is going to be just as careless about her children. If father's could have children then I have a feeling that the statistics would show that this is a problem for single parent homes not just fatherless homes. Divorce is never pretty and the children that end up caught in it often have emotional problems - so what is the cause of the statistics really? My brother is just now trying to go through divorce. His son may very well end up in trouble. SIL has lost custody of her first child to her first boyfriend. My brother is trying to avoid going to a lawyer. My SIL is trying to convince me to babysit for her but hide the fact from my brother and refuse to let him visit his child. I'm NOT gonna get caught in that. The subject of single parents homes/divorce and such is a little sensitive subject for me right now. I wish more parents would suck it up and take responsibility for their kids... I'm gonna shut up now. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

06-07-2005, 07:18 AM	#38 (permalink)
inkriminator Insane	I don't see how a 50/50 split would work out realistically. Before the child goes to school, it could easily work. But once the child passes the age of 5, what're you going to do, keep them in one school for one semester, in another for another? Switch schools on a yearly basis? I guess you could keep the child at one home during the school year and at another during the summer, but is that fair to the child? when during their vacation they are away from most of their friends? (I'm assuming some geographical distance between the parents, which may not always be the case) I think the system as it stands will be as good as it gets. The courts rule who should gain major custody, and the amount of involvement by the non-custodial parent will be mostly related to how much that parent wants to be involved

06-07-2005, 05:48 PM	#40 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	nothing to add yet... just puzzled at the suspicion and hostility directed towards the topic. __________________ If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill