Non-demoninational church - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Meditrina · 05-31-2005, 08:07 AM

My sister just told me that she is now attending a non-denominational church. She is not the kind of person I can ask questions. So I am wondering if any of you know how a church can be non-denominational? Don't churches use guidelines from somewhere to be able to preach and teach the followers? It seemed a little strange to me. I don't know if it is because I just don't know what she means and I don't want to make any judgements until I know more about it.

edited for spelling. I am SO sorry.

Daoust · 05-31-2005, 10:25 AM

I attend a church that we call non-denominational. People are always needing to give things labels, so if pressed we sometimes accept the term "Brethren" or "Plymouth Brethren". We don't like being labelled a denomination for a few reasons, mostly because people automatically associate denomination with religion. Now, that may sound silly, right? Of course churches are associated with religion. But religion carries with it a lot of things that my church does not. We don't have pastors, or priests or reverends. We don't have membership. We don't have a lot of religious immagery, symbols, etc. I know I'm not tackling this question the best way ( and I am concerned that this answer will not directly answer people who aren't fans of religion, of denominationalists who might not understand ) but I'm trying. I know many of you are going to say that like it or not, I'm in a denomination, but that's not the way I see it.

To answer one of your questions, the 'brethren' churches do use a guideline that they learn from and preach from and that enables them to preach and teach to followers. We call it the Bible.

Jinn · 05-31-2005, 10:55 AM

I learned a neat word in a previous thread that I think describes many non-denominational churches.

Quote:

Antitheism, the position that religion is destructive, is held by those who are opposed to religion on the basis that it promotes conflict among those who do not share the same beliefs.

Most non-denominational people/churches think that God is what should be worshipped, not the Church. They're antitheistic Theists (tongue twister). They want to be able to say "Yes, I worship GOD" without having the stigma that even I am guilty of automatically assigning.

Pretty good way to go, if you ask me.

As a side note, denomination is a very difficult word to type. I had difficulty with it myself, but I wonder about the threads' spelling: demoninational.... Freudian Slip?

[edited for spelling -- twice.]

Redlemon · 05-31-2005, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JinnKai

As a side note, denomination is a very difficult word to type. I had difficulty with it myself, but I wonder about the threads' spelling: demoninational.... Freudian Slip?

(heh... I was going to mention that as well, but hadn't figured out how to say it...)

When I'm confused by a subject like this, I usually hit Wikipedia (or actually, answers.com, which works much faster and mirrors the Wikipedia content). non-denominational: Information From Answers.com:

Quote:

A non-denominational church (usually Christian) is a religious organization which does not necessarily align its mission and teachings to an established denomination. It is also often done to allow the church to govern themselves without interference from the policies of a regional, national or multinational organization, in regards to budgets, memberships, policies, formal standards, and public image. Additionally, some religious bodies consciously reject the idea of a denominational structure as a matter of doctrine, insisting that each congregation be autonomous. Examples of fellowships of this sort include Independent Christian Churches, Open Bible Standard Churches, and the Church of Christ. However, while these groups reject the trappings of a formal denominational structure, they are widely regarded and referred to as denominations simply because they are a grouping of congregations with similar beliefs and practices. To their own members, they are "non-denominational", but they are not what is generally meant when discussion of non-denominational churches is undertaken.

Non-denominational churches are often more accepting of people from various religious backgrounds and more tolerant of differing religious, political or moral viewpoints. Critics feel however, that there cannot be a truly "non-denominational" church as all churches adhere to a core set of beliefs, though that set of beliefs may not be formalized as specific denomination. Likewise, an independent church with strongly fundamentalist and/or evangelical leanings may describe itself as "non-denominational" in order to give the impression of being generically Christian, or that no Christian has any business disagreeing with its teachings. In the strict sense of the definition, a non-denominational organization itself is a denomination. While many non-denominational churches may be indistinguishable from an established denomination in teachings, they are usually free to change those teachings to better suit the church members, free of strict policies set down by a parent organization.

In the United States, the number of evangelical non-denominational churches (often included in the category of American Protestantism) has increased exponentially since the late 1950s. Many historians of American religion cite after-effects of the Scopes Trial and Baby Boomers, as well as the higher standard of living available in the United States, and the movement away from authority in American culture due to Watergate and other scandals.

According to research by Barna Research and others there is an increase in the number of Christians who do not align themselves with any denomination. Many of these attend city or regional "super" or "mega" churches of congregations of 1500+ attendees.

The information presented therein isn't always bias-free, but it is certainly a good place to start discussions.

martinguerre · 05-31-2005, 12:10 PM

quite simply, there is no way to tell what Non-Denominational means without further context. It may mean ecumenical, it may signify what outsiders recognize as a demonination (such as Bretheren or Disciples of Christ). It also can be code word for a very independant and conservative Church out of the Baptist movements.

Meditrina · 05-31-2005, 03:45 PM

Oh my. I had not realized that I spelled it that way. I hope I did not offend anyone! I never meant to do that if I did, I am sorry. and I thank you all for your input. You have all helped shed some light on the subject for me.

Redlemon · 06-01-2005, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportswidow05

Oh my. I had not realized that I spelled it that way. I hope I did not offend anyone! I never meant to do that if I did, I am sorry. and I thank you all for your input. You have all helped shed some light on the subject for me.

I doubt anyone was offended. It was a word that you only heard, and took your best guess at writing down (although, if you tried to search for it, it would explain why you didn't get any useful information).

CSflim · 06-02-2005, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daoust

I attend a church that we call non-denominational. People are always needing to give things labels, so if pressed we sometimes accept the term "Brethren" or "Plymouth Brethren". We don't like being labelled a denomination for a few reasons, mostly because people automatically associate denomination with religion. Now, that may sound silly, right? Of course churches are associated with religion. But religion carries with it a lot of things that my church does not. We don't have pastors, or priests or reverends. We don't have membership. We don't have a lot of religious immagery, symbols, etc. I know I'm not tackling this question the best way ( and I am concerned that this answer will not directly answer people who aren't fans of religion, of denominationalists who might not understand ) but I'm trying. I know many of you are going to say that like it or not, I'm in a denomination, but that's not the way I see it.

To answer one of your questions, the 'brethren' churches do use a guideline that they learn from and preach from and that enables them to preach and teach to followers. We call it the Bible.

For the purposes of the thread, can anyone explain just what a 'denomination' actually is?

What specifically makes your church 'non-denominational' as opposed to a particular denomination which happens not to place emphasis on religious symbols, imagery and all the rest? I mean, I presume it is a Christian church - does that in itself not make you a denomination?

Also, what kind of things does your church do? Does it hold masses on sundays/saturdays like other churches? Who serves the mass if not a priest? Just a volunteer? What are the services like?

I can see that you are a bit worried about how people are going to react to your post, so don't take my reply to be 'attacking' you - I ask only out of genuine curiosity.

drewpy · 06-02-2005, 11:18 AM

my opinion is that "non-denominational church" is an oxymoron - like all the other cliches - military intelligence, and jumbo shrimp

Meditrina · 06-02-2005, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSflim

What specifically makes your church 'non-denominational' as opposed to a particular denomination which happens not to place emphasis on religious symbols, imagery and all the rest? I mean, I presume it is a Christian church - does that in itself not make you a denomination?

Also, what kind of things does your church do? Does it hold masses on sundays/saturdays like other churches? Who serves the mass if not a priest? Just a volunteer? What are the services like?

My sister, who is the one who told me her church was non-denominational, says she is Christian. Or at least I thought she was. These are all very good questions that will hopefully help us understand more about this type of church. I hope someone can answer. I really want to understand more of what my sister is doing. I wish I could ask her.

chickentribs · 06-09-2005, 12:53 AM

Quote:

demoninational.... Freudian Slip?

The non-demon

church that I went to for a little while was presided over by a minister, who had a degree in theology, and ordained by the state. We could go Wed evening or Sunday morning for service which involved a lot of singing songs and reading from the bible, and discussing what the possible lessons could be taken from a selected text.

The idea was that your religion could be personal and individual, and you were still true to the spirit of Christ's teachings. No fire or brimstone, and even the concept of something as basic as sin or the existence of Hell was debated among us. Christianity is a religion, not a denomination, hence non-denominational as opposed to Presbyterian or Baptist, etc. Not feeling the need to align with someone else's interpretations of the Bible is what seemed to be the central bond between members. Ultimately I continued down my own road and didn't stay long with the church, but I really got a lot out of it.

I am curious as to how this knowledge would change your conversation with your sister? I am sorry that you can't talk with her easily, that must be tough for you. Let me know if there is anything else you were curious about. I am far from an expert on anything to do with "church", but I would be more than happy to share my experience...

Daoust · 06-09-2005, 03:03 AM

CS, I am glad you're asking the questions. There are very good answers for your very good questions, and I have them, in my head at least, and I just want to express them the best way I can, so as to do justice to my strongly held beliefs.
If you'll permit me a little time, I'm going to do some research so as to ensure the answers I give are the most accurate and most closely resemble what it is I'm thinking...

martinguerre · 06-09-2005, 05:58 AM

i'll take a stab at CS's question then...

folks who so desire should feel free to interrupt at any time.

denominations are manifestations of divided histories. bascially, from day one of the Jesus movement (later to become Christianity) there were conflicts and disagreements. Many of these stayed "in-house" so to speak, but some caused rifts between factions. The only time that the word anti-Christ is used in cannonized Scripture is in the 2nd and 3rd letter from John. The author is complaining bitterly about a fellow Christian, and in anger labels him against Christ (anti-christos). I use this example to show both the historical depth of some of these fights, and to be honest about the problems of schism.

From then on, there were somewhat two options. Split away and win, or split away and lose. Once Christianity became the state religion of Rome, the stakes are even higher. People in tin suits had sharp pointy sticks, and were willing to use them on people who said the wrong thing. History is littered with proto-sects or denominations that got wiped from the face of the Earth. Many of the teachings that separated these groups are later recylced in other doctrinal fights... The unitarian/trinitarian fight is one of the oldest in Christianity, but still pops up with regularity in both conservative and liberal theological movements. Go figure.

Once the Reformations (plural to indicate multiplicity) occur, this formula gets changed a bit. Beyond the East/West schism, there are now tons of fragmented and contesting groups that claim truth and revelation about being the Christian church. Many still get wiped out by men in tin suits carrying sharp pointy sticks, but a lot of them don't. They get their own men in tin suits, carrying sharp pointy sticks to defend them. Or to oppress whoever new pops up to challenge them. (Despite popular opinion, Protestants were just as brutal in putting down "heresy" as anyone else). Heretic, by the way, being a technical term to describe a theologian who has had the worse of an encounter with men in tin suits carrying sharp pointy sticks.

So there we have it...a denomination is a theological viewpoint that is validated (to whatever extent we give this credit) by it's existance as a incarnate movement. historically, this meant having military backing, or being off in a backwater somewhere. Now, it may mean being in a location that has religious pluralism. that a movement is a denomination is always a history lession. look for who they're dividing from, when, why, where, and then in a little while...who they want to keep from dividing from them...

Meditrina · 06-09-2005, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chickentribs

I am curious as to how this knowledge would change your conversation with your sister? I am sorry that you can't talk with her easily, that must be tough for you. Let me know if there is anything else you were curious about. I am far from an expert on anything to do with "church", but I would be more than happy to share my experience...

I do not think this will change any conversation I will have with my sister. I like to think I have an open mind and I just wanted to understand more about what she was doing. I appreciate all of the information and honesty in this thread.

irateplatypus · 06-09-2005, 07:07 PM

the self-proclaimed "non-denominational" title has always struck me as a bit of a conceit.

what you're really saying is that you're just a denomination of one.

Daoust · 06-10-2005, 07:41 AM

www.brethrenassembly.com

and

www.brethrenassemblies.com

Both have good sections of information.

Hope this helps a little.

Meditrina · 06-10-2005, 07:45 AM

Thank you Daoust. I will look at those links when I get home.

Sage · 06-10-2005, 08:33 PM

my personal understanding of non-denominational was that there were all these churches that didn't draw up their own personal church doctrines to follow- hence, they were'nt officially part of a "split" anywhere along the line. The Big Church got split up into all these little piddily bits called denominations and everyone that didn't go one way or another ended up in a non-denominational church.

Don't all denominational churches have a church doctrine/credo/guideline that they follow? I remember going to a church with my friend when I was young and they had their doctrine on a huge poster right up at the front, outlining what they believed and what they didn't.

AVoiceOfReason · 06-21-2005, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irateplatypus

the self-proclaimed "non-denominational" title has always struck me as a bit of a conceit.

what you're really saying is that you're just a denomination of one.

Here's the definition as per dictionary.com: "A large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy."

I am a member of a non-denominational church, i.e. the one you can read about in the Bible, not out of conceit but because (a) there is no scriptural authority for congregations to be united (b) there is no requirement that the name of a local congregation be the same as another, and most importantly (c) there is no authority for a single adminstrative and legal hierarchy of the Lord's church.

I'm not in a denomination because I can't read about denominations in the Bible. Call it conceit if you wish, but you'd be wrong.

StanT · 06-21-2005, 02:32 PM

I'd look at non-denominational churchs as church-light or church-local. It's more a matter of what they aren't. They will not be affiliated with Methodists, Lutherans, or anything else. They are also not responsible to anyone else for content or finances. Each one is different, you really have to visit them to see if it's right for you

RusCrimson · 07-06-2005, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVoiceOfReason

I'm not in a denomination because I can't read about denominations in the Bible. Call it conceit if you wish, but you'd be wrong.

That's a bit factually erroneous, I think. Because there were underground Churches, it was not structured and organized in the same way that the more 'hierarchical' Churches are today. However there were structures and authorities, even in the early times. There was mention of bishops and deacons, and a substantial part of the New Testament consists of letters to Churches demoninated by the community in which they were located.

AVoiceOfReason · 07-06-2005, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RusCrimson

That's a bit factually erroneous, I think. Because there were underground Churches, it was not structured and organized in the same way that the more 'hierarchical' Churches are today. However there were structures and authorities, even in the early times. There was mention of bishops and deacons, and a substantial part of the New Testament consists of letters to Churches demoninated by the community in which they were located.

It was not organized as it is with so many groups today because it was underground (and I don't deny there were some that were) but because it was not the plan. Indeed, there are authorities in each local congregation--bishops or elders (there are six English words that mean the same office)--but they were to rule over the flock that was among them (1 Pet. 5). Deacons are not authorities, but rather servants of a congregation; I've served in that capacity. There were several congregations that functioned openly--the Thessolonians come to mind immediately, as did the church in Corinth. The Biblical structure works whether or not a group is meeting openly or underground.

And yes, a substantial part of the NT is comprised of the letters to the various churches, but there's nothing to indicate they were denominations as we see them today and as defined in my previous note. If you used the word "designated," we'd be on the same page.

05-31-2005, 08:07 AM	#1 (permalink)
Meditrina Junkie Location: LI,NY	Non-denominational church My sister just told me that she is now attending a non-denominational church. She is not the kind of person I can ask questions. So I am wondering if any of you know how a church can be non-denominational? Don't churches use guidelines from somewhere to be able to preach and teach the followers? It seemed a little strange to me. I don't know if it is because I just don't know what she means and I don't want to make any judgements until I know more about it. edited for spelling. I am SO sorry. __________________ "Toughness is in the soul and spirit, not in muscles." ~Alex Karras Last edited by Meditrina; 05-31-2005 at 03:56 PM..

05-31-2005, 10:25 AM	#2 (permalink)
Daoust "I'm sorry. What was the question?" Location: Paradise Regained	I attend a church that we call non-denominational. People are always needing to give things labels, so if pressed we sometimes accept the term "Brethren" or "Plymouth Brethren". We don't like being labelled a denomination for a few reasons, mostly because people automatically associate denomination with religion. Now, that may sound silly, right? Of course churches are associated with religion. But religion carries with it a lot of things that my church does not. We don't have pastors, or priests or reverends. We don't have membership. We don't have a lot of religious immagery, symbols, etc. I know I'm not tackling this question the best way ( and I am concerned that this answer will not directly answer people who aren't fans of religion, of denominationalists who might not understand ) but I'm trying. I know many of you are going to say that like it or not, I'm in a denomination, but that's not the way I see it. To answer one of your questions, the 'brethren' churches do use a guideline that they learn from and preach from and that enables them to preach and teach to followers. We call it the Bible. __________________ I have faith in a few things - divinity and grace But even when I'm on my knees I know the devil preys

05-31-2005, 12:10 PM	#5 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	quite simply, there is no way to tell what Non-Denominational means without further context. It may mean ecumenical, it may signify what outsiders recognize as a demonination (such as Bretheren or Disciples of Christ). It also can be code word for a very independant and conservative Church out of the Baptist movements. __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16

05-31-2005, 03:45 PM	#6 (permalink)
Meditrina Junkie Location: LI,NY	Oh my. I had not realized that I spelled it that way. I hope I did not offend anyone! I never meant to do that if I did, I am sorry. and I thank you all for your input. You have all helped shed some light on the subject for me. __________________ "Toughness is in the soul and spirit, not in muscles." ~Alex Karras

06-02-2005, 11:18 AM	#9 (permalink)
drewpy Crazy Location: Chicago-ish	my opinion is that "non-denominational church" is an oxymoron - like all the other cliches - military intelligence, and jumbo shrimp __________________ "Once made equal to a man, woman becomes his superior." Socrates

06-09-2005, 03:03 AM	#12 (permalink)
Daoust "I'm sorry. What was the question?" Location: Paradise Regained	CS, I am glad you're asking the questions. There are very good answers for your very good questions, and I have them, in my head at least, and I just want to express them the best way I can, so as to do justice to my strongly held beliefs. If you'll permit me a little time, I'm going to do some research so as to ensure the answers I give are the most accurate and most closely resemble what it is I'm thinking... __________________ I have faith in a few things - divinity and grace But even when I'm on my knees I know the devil preys

06-09-2005, 05:58 AM	#13 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	i'll take a stab at CS's question then... folks who so desire should feel free to interrupt at any time. denominations are manifestations of divided histories. bascially, from day one of the Jesus movement (later to become Christianity) there were conflicts and disagreements. Many of these stayed "in-house" so to speak, but some caused rifts between factions. The only time that the word anti-Christ is used in cannonized Scripture is in the 2nd and 3rd letter from John. The author is complaining bitterly about a fellow Christian, and in anger labels him against Christ (anti-christos). I use this example to show both the historical depth of some of these fights, and to be honest about the problems of schism. From then on, there were somewhat two options. Split away and win, or split away and lose. Once Christianity became the state religion of Rome, the stakes are even higher. People in tin suits had sharp pointy sticks, and were willing to use them on people who said the wrong thing. History is littered with proto-sects or denominations that got wiped from the face of the Earth. Many of the teachings that separated these groups are later recylced in other doctrinal fights... The unitarian/trinitarian fight is one of the oldest in Christianity, but still pops up with regularity in both conservative and liberal theological movements. Go figure. Once the Reformations (plural to indicate multiplicity) occur, this formula gets changed a bit. Beyond the East/West schism, there are now tons of fragmented and contesting groups that claim truth and revelation about being the Christian church. Many still get wiped out by men in tin suits carrying sharp pointy sticks, but a lot of them don't. They get their own men in tin suits, carrying sharp pointy sticks to defend them. Or to oppress whoever new pops up to challenge them. (Despite popular opinion, Protestants were just as brutal in putting down "heresy" as anyone else). Heretic, by the way, being a technical term to describe a theologian who has had the worse of an encounter with men in tin suits carrying sharp pointy sticks. So there we have it...a denomination is a theological viewpoint that is validated (to whatever extent we give this credit) by it's existance as a incarnate movement. historically, this meant having military backing, or being off in a backwater somewhere. Now, it may mean being in a location that has religious pluralism. that a movement is a denomination is always a history lession. look for who they're dividing from, when, why, where, and then in a little while...who they want to keep from dividing from them... __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16

06-09-2005, 07:07 PM	#15 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	the self-proclaimed "non-denominational" title has always struck me as a bit of a conceit. what you're really saying is that you're just a denomination of one. __________________ If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill

06-10-2005, 07:41 AM	#16 (permalink)
Daoust "I'm sorry. What was the question?" Location: Paradise Regained	www.brethrenassembly.com and www.brethrenassemblies.com Both have good sections of information. Hope this helps a little. __________________ I have faith in a few things - divinity and grace But even when I'm on my knees I know the devil preys

06-10-2005, 07:45 AM	#17 (permalink)
Meditrina Junkie Location: LI,NY	Thank you Daoust. I will look at those links when I get home. __________________ "Toughness is in the soul and spirit, not in muscles." ~Alex Karras

06-10-2005, 08:33 PM	#18 (permalink)
Sage hoarding all the big girl panties since 2005 Location: North side	my personal understanding of non-denominational was that there were all these churches that didn't draw up their own personal church doctrines to follow- hence, they were'nt officially part of a "split" anywhere along the line. The Big Church got split up into all these little piddily bits called denominations and everyone that didn't go one way or another ended up in a non-denominational church. Don't all denominational churches have a church doctrine/credo/guideline that they follow? I remember going to a church with my friend when I was young and they had their doctrine on a huge poster right up at the front, outlining what they believed and what they didn't. __________________ Sage knows our mythic history, King Arthur's and Sir Caradoc's She answers hard acrostics, has a pretty taste for paradox She quotes in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus In conics she can floor peculiarities parabolous -C'hi

06-21-2005, 02:32 PM	#20 (permalink)
StanT © Location: Colorado	I'd look at non-denominational churchs as church-light or church-local. It's more a matter of what they aren't. They will not be affiliated with Methodists, Lutherans, or anything else. They are also not responsible to anyone else for content or finances. Each one is different, you really have to visit them to see if it's right for you