Death Penalty: Right or Wrong? - Page 3 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

DukeNukem4ever · 05-27-2005, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d*d

Seriously, don't overthink the death penalty, what sort of statement is that - quick kill them before I resolve my thoughts and change my mind

If you had bothered to READ the first part of my post you would have caught that little thing about there being "no doubt in the prosecution"!
Once a verdict is reached don't waffle, don't second guess, and don't change your mind.

Cheers,

Willravel · 05-30-2005, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DukeNukem4ever

It seems most of you are saying an eye for an eye... let the punishment fit the crime.

Hmm... an eye for an eye. What do you think is the reason for punishment? Is it to create an equilibrium of violence or immorality to balance violence and immorality? Or should the equilibrium be reached by doing a good to cancel out the bad?

If a boy robs a convience store, what should be the punishment (eye) for his robbery (also eye)? Should we steal from him? How does prison fit the crime?

Sorry for all the questions. Is punishment simply a penalty or should it serve to teach those who have done wrong? I'd like to think that justice for those who have done wrong isn't simply a penalty, but an opportunity to learn and grow so that the person can become better. If, hypothetically, there was a way to completly reform someone who had commited hainus (death penmalty worthy) acts, would you not want to punish them and then help them? What if a murderer could be punished and then helped to understand that what he or she did was wrong and should not be done? Doesn't that seem better than stuffing them into a crate for 20 years and then gassing them or injecting them with poison?

d*d · 05-31-2005, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DukeNukem4ever

If you had bothered to READ the first part of my post you would have caught that little thing about there being "no doubt in the prosecution"!
Once a verdict is reached don't waffle, don't second guess, and don't change your mind.

I READ it, my point still stands, you can't change your mind once you've killed them anyway - my point is that you can't overthink reasons pertaining to taking someones live, how do you reach the "no doubt" conclusion otherwise?

adysav · 05-31-2005, 02:47 PM

Unfortunately, such a thing as a "no doubt conclusion" doesn't exist. Hence why people say "beyond reasonable doubt".

DukeNukem4ever · 05-31-2005, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adysav

Unfortunately, such a thing as a "no doubt conclusion" doesn't exist. Hence why people say "beyond reasonable doubt".

Quote:

Originally Posted by d*d

I READ it, my point still stands, you can't change your mind once you've killed them anyway - my point is that you can't overthink reasons pertaining to taking someones live, how do you reach the "no doubt" conclusion otherwise?

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Hmm... an eye for an eye. What do you think is the reason for punishment? Is it to create an equilibrium of violence or immorality to balance violence and immorality? Or should the equilibrium be reached by doing a good to cancel out the bad?

Ok, you caught me... I don't watch "Law & Order".
Both d*d and willravel obviously bring forth valid points.
Life and death issues are and probably always will be shades of gray with almost limitless degrees between.
We are each individuals with different views and different takes on what we call life and death...

d*d, I appologize for my last post quoting you... I should not have done that in the tone I did.

0energy0 · 06-06-2005, 10:50 PM

Wrong.

It's kinda the wrong reason for punishment. Depending on the reason, no one should kill for justice. As other TFPers would say, it would not teach a lesson. Why would you want someone dead? For revenge? Then what? You will probably wanting more. In my opinion, when the families of the victims are interviewed after the convict's death, I don't think they are happy. They are still sad, not happy that he is dead. The convict's family is hurt because now they lost a loved one. More people are being punished than for the death of one person.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phage

martinguerre
I was trying to avoid this, but consider your position:

Romans 6:23 (New International Version)
"For the wages of sin is death..."
^ This is God laying out the original death penalty.

Genesis 9:6
"Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man."
^ Since man was made in the image of God murdering them is an offense against God and requires the penalty of death, which you will note is expressly indicated be administered by man.

Romans 13:1-5
1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
^ Obey the law!

We should note that the Bible should not be taken literally. Catholics should know that! God wants us to live better lives; he is just implementing different examples of laws and how humans should live, and how and why we shouldn't.

Willravel · 06-10-2005, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phage

I was trying to avoid this, but consider your position:

Romans 6:23 (New International Version)
"For the wages of sin is death..."
^ This is God laying out the original death penalty.

Is it? OR is it claiming that because we are all sinful (original sin), we have earned eternal damnation. The second half of Romans 6:23 "...but the gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord." When you take the whole verse in perspective, the message is clear. The death mentioned is the punishment given by God, not man. Man cannot sentence you to eternal damnation (unless you are a Reupblican...zing!).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phage

Genesis 9:6
"Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man."
^ Since man was made in the image of God murdering them is an offense against God and requires the penalty of death, which you will note is expressly indicated be administered by man.

Are you suggesting that capitol punishment is man acting as the hand of God?!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phage

Romans 13:1-5
1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
^ Obey the law!

Where does that leave those who are discovered to be innocent who have been executed? Where does that leave all those Sadam killed? Whare does that leave all those who have been executed under an evil dictatorship?

Do you know what Paul meant when he wrote Romans 13:1-5? Well, I do.

At the time this letter was written, the Christians of Rome were being ruled by a non-Christian government. Christians were tempted to not submit (rebel) and claim allegience only to Christ. Paul was trying to prevent a rebelion, not suggest that the government is always right.

cybersharp · 06-26-2005, 11:08 PM

Well, sense it has happeneds all over the world and is not going to be stopped anytime soon the true question would have to be what is right and wrong and each individuals perceptions of what right and wrong are seperatly. Along with that is the argument of weather or not a persons sense of right and wrong is true to a universal standard which would of course be set by the given society that one inhabits. So it might be said that if a majority of society says that the death penalty is wrong or right then the society rules, inless of course you dont care about universal standard by which of course your saying that right and wrong are not true inless they follow your perceptions of what right and wrong are.

Johnny Pyro · 07-07-2005, 05:41 AM

The death penalty is right. There are people out there that just deserve to die. Evil does exist.

djflish · 07-11-2005, 05:52 AM

I certainly think that some people should die for the suffering they've caused others, part of me just thinks that its an easy way out for them.
For me, the criminals should be given life sentences (and I mean LIFE sentences, not 25 years, parolled after 15) where they spend every waking moment til the day they die in a 6x4 room with nothing but a bucket and a matress for company.
That way they can contemplate what they've done. Not for rehabilitation purposes, just for their own personal torment. It's more of a 'punishment' in my opinion.

Suave · 07-11-2005, 10:39 PM

There are better ways of punishing a criminal. Killing someone does nothing to help society, aside from removing said person. Prison, in its current form, is also stupid. Criminals should be used as cheap labour to make our products. They could be hired out to companies at less than the wage they would normally hire foreigners in sweatshops, and we could have some guilt-free Nikes. Do it up concentration camp style.

And who cares if the criminals don't necessarily feel punished? Guilt and remorse are highly overrated by our society. Remorse is important for the average person, and the good person, but that does not mean that someone cannot be productive without it.

The only time one should take the life of another person is if that very person is himself threatening innocent life, and even then only if unavoidable.

Sugarmouse · 07-25-2005, 04:10 PM

[QUOTE=Suave]There are better ways of punishing a criminal. Killing someone does nothing to help society, aside from removing said person. Prison, in its current form, is also stupid. Criminals should be used as cheap labour to make our products. They could be hired out to companies at less than the wage they would normally hire foreigners in sweatshops, and we could have some guilt-free Nikes. Do it up concentration camp style.

And who cares if the criminals don't necessarily feel punished? Guilt and remorse are highly overrated by our society. Remorse is important for the average person, and the good person, but that does not mean that someone cannot be productive without it.

that makes a lot of sense to me!!

but i cannt answer this..too many perspectives...some ppl dnt deserve to be alive...chuck them to the sharks...lifes a death penalty anyways..no imoni been stupid..i dont know i realy dont..whether it is a good thng or not!!! i havent got a clue!!

06-26-2005, 11:08 PM	#88 (permalink)
cybersharp Insane	Well, sense it has happeneds all over the world and is not going to be stopped anytime soon the true question would have to be what is right and wrong and each individuals perceptions of what right and wrong are seperatly. Along with that is the argument of weather or not a persons sense of right and wrong is true to a universal standard which would of course be set by the given society that one inhabits. So it might be said that if a majority of society says that the death penalty is wrong or right then the society rules, inless of course you dont care about universal standard by which of course your saying that right and wrong are not true inless they follow your perceptions of what right and wrong are. __________________ 0PtIcAl

07-07-2005, 05:41 AM	#89 (permalink)
Johnny Pyro Hey Now! Location: Massachusetts (Redneck, white boy town. I hate it here.)	The death penalty is right. There are people out there that just deserve to die. Evil does exist. __________________ "From delusion lead me to truth, from darkness lead me to light, from death lead me to eternal life. - Sheriff John Wydell

07-11-2005, 05:52 AM	#90 (permalink)
djflish The Mighty Boosh Location: I mostly come out at night, mostly...	I certainly think that some people should die for the suffering they've caused others, part of me just thinks that its an easy way out for them. For me, the criminals should be given life sentences (and I mean LIFE sentences, not 25 years, parolled after 15) where they spend every waking moment til the day they die in a 6x4 room with nothing but a bucket and a matress for company. That way they can contemplate what they've done. Not for rehabilitation purposes, just for their own personal torment. It's more of a 'punishment' in my opinion. __________________ Europes two great narcotics, Alcohol and Christianity. I know which one I prefer.

07-11-2005, 10:39 PM	#91 (permalink)
Suave Twitterpated Location: My own little world (also Canada)	There are better ways of punishing a criminal. Killing someone does nothing to help society, aside from removing said person. Prison, in its current form, is also stupid. Criminals should be used as cheap labour to make our products. They could be hired out to companies at less than the wage they would normally hire foreigners in sweatshops, and we could have some guilt-free Nikes. Do it up concentration camp style. And who cares if the criminals don't necessarily feel punished? Guilt and remorse are highly overrated by our society. Remorse is important for the average person, and the good person, but that does not mean that someone cannot be productive without it. The only time one should take the life of another person is if that very person is himself threatening innocent life, and even then only if unavoidable. __________________ "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato Last edited by Suave; 07-11-2005 at 10:46 PM..

07-25-2005, 04:10 PM	#92 (permalink)
Sugarmouse Insane Location: Preston lancs(i know i know)	[QUOTE=Suave]There are better ways of punishing a criminal. Killing someone does nothing to help society, aside from removing said person. Prison, in its current form, is also stupid. Criminals should be used as cheap labour to make our products. They could be hired out to companies at less than the wage they would normally hire foreigners in sweatshops, and we could have some guilt-free Nikes. Do it up concentration camp style. And who cares if the criminals don't necessarily feel punished? Guilt and remorse are highly overrated by our society. Remorse is important for the average person, and the good person, but that does not mean that someone cannot be productive without it. that makes a lot of sense to me!! but i cannt answer this..too many perspectives...some ppl dnt deserve to be alive...chuck them to the sharks...lifes a death penalty anyways..no imoni been stupid..i dont know i realy dont..whether it is a good thng or not!!! i havent got a clue!! __________________ Sugarmouse=Festered

05-31-2005, 02:47 PM	#84 (permalink)
adysav Insane	Unfortunately, such a thing as a "no doubt conclusion" doesn't exist. Hence why people say "beyond reasonable doubt".