Martian

First, a bit of background.

I attended a meeting today. Without getting into specifics, it involved a co-worker of mine. It's come to light that he's joined the company I currently work for as a method of recruiting specific individuals for a venture that he's interested in. We all share a few traits in common, including intelligence, ambition, some decent connections and not a small amount of ego. The idea is to form a new organization. The fellow organizing it is not directly involved but rather takes on the role of consultant, or as he put it 'making sure we don't fall on our asses'.

We discussed a lot of details about what we want to do and how to get there and during this I hit an epiphany of sorts.

First off, I do have a bit of an ego and I'm the first to admit it. Aside from that, I haven't had much trouble getting what I want. I've always attributed that to my attitude (rather than wishing, I figure out where I want to be and then what I need to do to get there) and my ability to visualize these things. I'm the sort of guy that refuses to believe that anything is out of my reach and therefore I generally manage to get what it is I'm after.

This is going to steer my life in a new direction, but it's one I'm happy with. I had always intended on running a business and this will allow me to get to that position much more quickly than I could've on my own. There are ten of us involved, all hand picked by our mentor of sorts and he's willing to use the influence he's gained over the years to help us get to where we need to be.

So down to the grain of it. I've always believed that the world is populated by two sorts of people - thinkers and doers. Both are valuable and neither can function without the other. I am a doer, which I know. I figure out what needs to be done and I do it. A thinker, I believe, is more of one who dreams and imagines, who is constantly planning and coming up with new things but lacks the ability to pursue those things to the same extent. Obviously nothing in the world is black and white and nobody fits neatly into either of these categories (myself included), but as far as I'm able to tell everyone I've encountered to date may be classified as one or the other.

So, now out to the forumites here. Do you agree? Which do you think you are? Do you think I'm off my head and have no idea what I'm talking about? Honest opinions are welcome.

Seeker

I'm not sure I agree with your concept here? I am trying to see some generalisations in different aspects, roles etc.. and I am coming up with a blank.

Some people may be more inclined to think, entrepreneurs, consultants, etc.. but I cannot see how they are just thinkers. Many of these people are doing, networking, organising, management tasks, etc.

There are some people I know who are more the 'just do it' types and prefer not to dwell on the deeper side of thinking as they don't think it can achieve anything, however when they come across something they need help with, they usually seek out a thinker. Psychologists, financial planners, consultants.

I don't think you are off your head, possibly I don't share your concept of thinkers. I tend to give thinking more credit than dreaming and imagining. Architects, designers - they all do things too.

__________________
To those who wander but who are not lost...

~ Knowledge is not something you acquire, it is something you open yourself to.

Supple Cow

I think I know what you're talking about. I had a personal epiphany about it last summer. I didn't use "thinkers" and "doers" though. The way I saw it, there are people who build cities and people who just live in them. (Cities are a metaphor for changing the world of course.)

Another applicable metaphor: potatoes who can swim, and those who can't.

__________________
"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."
(Michael Jordan)

tecoyah

There are those who fit neatly into the middle of all this....those who love to think, carefully. These individuals will formulate a plan, allow the players to fall into place, and reap the benefits of actions by others.

These are the manipulators. But could easily be considered a subset of the doer.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Offkilter

Is being a 'manipulator' in these cases always a bad thing? They could be looked upon as someone who sees an opportunity and takes advantage of it such as an inventor or an entrepreneur, at no intentional expense to others of course.

__________________
That man that hath a tongue, I say, is no man,
If with his tongue he cannot win a woman.
The Two Gentleman of Verona. ACT III Scene 1.

tecoyah

It is in no way a bad thing.....there is a reason I know well of this subset of people.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

ngdawg

there is a reason I know well of this subset of people.
__________________

Manipulators are not a subset. They go beyond thinking or imagining and have the ability to create doers. While it may take a lot of thinking to achieve their results, it is a skill or talent few use to success. Working on becoming one, Tec or are you the doer of which I speak?

tecoyah

I will plead the fifth on this one.......But I have no problem following manipulations path. If I know it is there....it can be fun. If I only find out later....it is educational.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Johnny Rotten

Employment subterfuge isn't typically the hallmark of a sound business model. No matter how good the plan sounds, that kind of activity is suspect and professionally dangerous, as well as unusual. A business venture is typically formed by colleagues with capital, or the connections to do so, and recruitment is a little more open than what you described. Poaching from within is a different ballgame.

Just my two cents.

__________________
"The idea that money doesn't buy you happiness is a lie put about by the rich, to stop the poor from killing them." -- Michael Caine

NotMVH

I have faith that I am a motivated and focused person. I am intrested in introspective understanding and think and research, not only the decisions I make but try to have clarity about the personal or subconscious motives behind them.

It is very postive for people to take control of themselves and think, with clarity about how they are living and make the proper choices for themselves. It sounds like you have a firm grasp on your life.

In what way do your classification's further your relationship or connection with another human being? How do you benifit from formulating opinions of that nature about them?

I think it is ignorant to try and classify people. No matter what definition, learning to let people be is a far greater tool to teach yourself. People tend to form personalities that exemplify distinct characteristics, understanding a person and connecting with them is important. Classification throws aside a great part of who a person is and no longer is Peter, simply Peter. He is now the thinker Peter or the doer Peter. Do you really gain something from those definitions?

Martian

Jonny Rotten, understand that I over dramatized it a bit. I have a habit of doing that to foster interest and will readily admit to it if called. Yeah, it's a little surreptitious, but it's a zero dollar enterprise (ie, we don't contribute any money ; since it's skills we're marketing, generating revenue wihout capital is possible, if not exactly easy). In any case, it's not the business model that I'm offering up, it's more of a segueway to sort of explain my mindset in coming into this. I look at this group of people I've become involved with and I see a common trait, in that we all believe that this will work. I have trouble thinking that if we all take that attitude we won't succeed eventually. After all, I am one of those people who claims that we are who we choose to be.

Zeraph

Youre no where near crazy for thinking this, there are more complex models out there that are similar to this. So in a general way I can agree with you. I am definetly a thinker rather than a doer. I work best with a doer, its amazing how much more work we/I can get done if paired correctly, much more than double (usually).

And about the manipulation thing? Rare? Puh-leeze, nearly everyone is, more some than others of course, and the more successful ones are CEOs and politicians.

tiberry

You seem to have a bit of an identity crisis OR you're faith in the "consultant" and the rest of the group may be higher than your faith in yourself.

I share a similar attitude with you regarding myself and my ability to get what I want. Over the years, I've learned to trust MYSELF and that ability. I'm more than glad to seek out help from others when I need it (I attribute that to MYSELF being smart enough to do so!); but wary of being a "pawn" in another's grand plan.

Are you a "partner" in this endeavor?

__________________
My life's work is to bridge the gap between that which is perceived by the mind and that which is quantifiable by words and numbers.

cellophanedeity

I think that anyone who acts without thought or anyone who thinks without action isn't doing anything of any personal use.

I try to be both thinker and doer, though I do lean further on the "thinker."

Martian

tiberry - I'm not sure there is an identity crisis there. I know that this is something that I could do on my own, but getting there would take longer than it would with a diverse group who has a skillset to complement my own. Yes, I'm putting trust in these people, as they are in me That's the nature of a venture like this.

If after a reasonable amount of time it doesn't seem to be going anywhere I still have the option of striking out on my own, but as his venture requires nothing of me but my time and a bit of effort (and promises almost immediate dividends, as we're already getting contracts) I don't see the harm in giving it some effort. But back on topic...

cellophanedeity - I think it's safe to say that no one is the archetype of either, just that some people have a more common trait than others. Certainly saying that I'm a person who gets things done isn't the same as saying I'm incapable fo thinking or planning, more that my personality is better suited to practicalities and action than it is to dreaming and inventing. I don't think either is a negative thing, however. Indeed, I firmly believe that in order for any progress in this world to be made.

Consider the architect and the contractor. Neither can survive without the other - the architect is able to plan and visualize a building but often lacks the necessary resources and skills to actually construct one. The contractor, on the other hand, has the ability to construct anything from simple townhomes to huge feats of engineering - but without an architect to plan it out, he has nothing to build. This is again oversimplified, nobody fits precisely into one category or the other. However, we all do seem to lean more in one direction than the other.

Seeker

I don't want to nit pic, though there are times where the architect is also the builder. Most times however it is just the fact that doing all of this is not always conducive.. time and turnover will usually play a part in the roles that are taken on. Personal preference will decide if you want to either be the architect (thinker) or builder (doer), although both may have the capacity for the other aspects.

Manipulators seem to have these two traits working for them as a balanced holistic approach.

__________________
To those who wander but who are not lost...

~ Knowledge is not something you acquire, it is something you open yourself to.