Arguing with a 5 year old... - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

EULA · 05-29-2005, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raeanna74

Tantrums should not "sometimes" work. The fact that there are many more tantrums during the times when he is caring for her shows that there are some problems with his method. No one is perfect but SOMETHING is wrong with his choices.

I will agree with you that he shouldn't be a pussy and know when she is trying to manipulate him. Letting children do their own thing and being a push-over are two different things. He needs to learn that children having tantrums usually are not in distress.

Quote:

Originally Posted by raeanna74

I have also seen several of the students that I was friends with in high school. One is a computer technician that is hired out to other companies for his expertise, one is a veterinarian, one is a biologist currently in Papua New Guinea, one started his own business and has had to move to a third facility because of the rapid growth over the years... ALL of whom had VERY strict homes and their parents were NOT their buddies. Being your child's buddy does not alone ensure their success in today's economy.

And I have seen kids from respectful, loving homes become confident, successful people before they are old enough to drive. I'm not going to say that either of us is right or wrong. I'm going to groom my children to become adults at around the age of 13. You may choose different parenting methods or goals, but both of us will be right in choosing a way and philosophy that is natural and defensible for us.

Lebell · 05-29-2005, 09:45 AM

There have been several studies that show that children's brains are physically changing up until tthey reach about 20 or so.

The part of the brain that is developing is the area that has to do with decision making.

In otherwords, there is a scientific reason why children make stupid choices.

So you are asking the physically impossible to have a 13 year old be an adult.

Zegel · 05-31-2005, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lebell

In otherwords, there is a scientific reason why children make stupid choices.

Oh, good, maybe that was it last night then! We were sitting in the office when we heard a loud SMACK and turned to see our daughter crying right next to a wall. After she calmed down and stopped crying we asked her what had happened. Apparently she was trying to run around with her eyes closed =P.

cheeterbo · 06-10-2005, 08:14 AM

wow, much advice here and certainly seems heartfelt.

i have four kids, 6, 5, 3 & 1.

i have watched four kids 15 and under brought up by my sister in eula's way.

not a good job. my sister could even be eula, but i read eula is childless.

these kids are useless to society. not evil or bad to society, just useless. my sister and her husband simply let them do what they want, didnt battle them, didnt establish boundaries and now they have some developmental problems looming. the kids lack social skills. a couple of them are book smart, but because of the lack of discipline, dont really have any friends because they are not any fun to be around. they basically watch tv and eat. yes, they are are getting large.

my parents are quite dissappointed as their first grandchildren are basically useless lumps.

on the other hand, by three other sisters and i do have wonderful children and we all share the same theory the majority on this thread do.

i cant tell you the number of times people come up to my wife and i telling us what beautiful children we have and that they are so well behaved.

and this is just from setting boundaries. no yelling, hitting or other punishment.

eula, you might have extraordinary patience or something, or, you seem to want to rail against the machine, but simple letting kids figure it out doesnt help the vast majority of children. one or two might get by with this lord-of-the-flies approach, but, it the big picture, i think it is shameful.

lilitalianita · 06-22-2005, 10:02 AM

YOU are the parent. There is no negotiation. You are not there to be her friend and that should answer all your questions when it comes to handling your child. You can be her friend when she is older.

EULA · 06-22-2005, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lebell

There have been several studies that show that children's brains are physically changing up until tthey reach about 20 or so.

The part of the brain that is developing is the area that has to do with decision making.

In otherwords, there is a scientific reason why children make stupid choices.

OK, I'm with you so far...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lebell

So you are asking the physically impossible to have a 13 year old be an adult.

You read those studies and, using your world view, infered the crucial variable in these studies to validate said view.

There are the two major opposing variables one can infer from those studies:
1. maturity comes from time alone ticking away into infinity
2. maturity comes from experience

You say since children are incapable of maturity and responsibility until the magic numer 18 or 20 pops around, it's ok to treat them like some kind of idiot or slave until that time. Children have committed murder knowing that, since they are minors, they will just get a slap on the wrist.

I say since most people aren't allowed to assume responsibilities until late teens and early twenties and are placed in schools that diliberately deprive them of experiences, it makes sense why their brains are still forming so late.

I have seen children behave responsibly and make intelligent chioces at around 13. So your statement about it being impossible is either false, or I am hallucinating. Take your pick

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheeterbo

i have watched four kids 15 and under brought up by my sister in eula's way.

not a good job. my sister could even be eula, but i read eula is childless.

Your sister failed; many parents that share my philosophy have been successful. I think you are conflating permissive parenting with laziness and/or neglect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheeterbo

....and this is just from setting boundaries. no yelling, hitting or other punishment.

As I have said before, there is one great boundary in my philosophy: respect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheeterbo

eula, you might have extraordinary patience or something, or, you seem to want to rail against the machine, but simple letting kids figure it out doesnt help the vast majority of children. one or two might get by with this lord-of-the-flies approach, but, it the big picture, i think it is shameful.

Lord of the Flies? Have you been reading my posts AT ALL? The children will be guided, not dropped off on some island to fend for themselves. **Completely rude and unnecessary comment removed. - analog.**

Have you told your sister that her children are useless to society? Just curious.

Lebell · 06-22-2005, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EULA

You say since children are incapable of maturity and responsibility until the magic numer 18 or 20 pops around, it's ok to treat them like some kind of idiot or slave until that time. Children have committed murder knowing that, since they are minors, they will just get a slap on the wrist.

I say since most people aren't allowed to assume responsibilities until late teens and early twenties and are placed in schools that diliberately deprive them of experiences, it makes sense why their brains are still forming so late.

I have seen children behave responsibly and make intelligent chioces at around 13. So your statement about it being impossible is either false, or I am hallucinating. Take your pick.

You make some interesting inferences, but I haven't said anything about treating children like idiots or slaves.

I'll pick that some children are capable of making intelligent choices but that this doesn't mean that they should have the burden of adult responsibilities forced on them.

And it isn't "my world view", it is the current understanding of child psychology and child development.

I'm sorry that you seem to be unable to see that in many ways I agree with you but that your view comes not from a parent's view point, but from a child's.

analog · 07-13-2005, 07:50 PM

** MOD NOTE: If I see another comment made that personally insults a member via their choices as a parent or non-parent, i'm breaking fingers. You know who you are.**

ngdawg · 07-13-2005, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lebell

There have been several studies that show that children's brains are physically changing up until tthey reach about 20 or so.

The part of the brain that is developing is the area that has to do with decision making.

In otherwords, there is a scientific reason why children make stupid choices.

So you are asking the physically impossible to have a 13 year old be an adult.

It's called frontal lobe and it is the slowest growing part of the brain as it absorbs the information that humans need to understand right from wrong and the consequences of action. It is, in essence the conscience. Many sociopaths and psychopaths have underdeveloped frontal lobes.
From the time my twins could even partially verbalize their needs or wants, they were given choices, but, as small children, choice of two. Whether it was what book to read, what snack to have, what pants to wear. Some things weren't up for discussion-I stuck to my guns and they understood that.
My son had temper tantrums(later found to be at least partially the result of an allergy to sodium nitrates), but he was either ignored or put in the corner or his crib til he calmed down. If he tried to get out of that, I put him back and said he could come out when he finished.
Kids will test their boundaries to be sure they have them. If we as parents keep changing the rules, we lose their trust and respect.

ncgti · 07-27-2005, 05:23 PM

As a parent of 4 children what you realize is that there is no single "Holy Grail" of rules and parenting behaviors for raising them. Each child is different and what works for one may not work for another.

What would be interesting is to get a report in about 15-20 years from now from EULA to see if his contrarian methods will raise fully functioning contributing members of society or a bunch of messed-up self-indulgent brats.

His eyes will be opened when he is a parent.

05-29-2005, 09:45 AM	#42 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	There have been several studies that show that children's brains are physically changing up until tthey reach about 20 or so. The part of the brain that is developing is the area that has to do with decision making. In otherwords, there is a scientific reason why children make stupid choices. So you are asking the physically impossible to have a 13 year old be an adult. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

06-10-2005, 08:14 AM	#44 (permalink)
cheeterbo Crazy Location: newyork	wow, much advice here and certainly seems heartfelt. i have four kids, 6, 5, 3 & 1. i have watched four kids 15 and under brought up by my sister in eula's way. not a good job. my sister could even be eula, but i read eula is childless. these kids are useless to society. not evil or bad to society, just useless. my sister and her husband simply let them do what they want, didnt battle them, didnt establish boundaries and now they have some developmental problems looming. the kids lack social skills. a couple of them are book smart, but because of the lack of discipline, dont really have any friends because they are not any fun to be around. they basically watch tv and eat. yes, they are are getting large. my parents are quite dissappointed as their first grandchildren are basically useless lumps. on the other hand, by three other sisters and i do have wonderful children and we all share the same theory the majority on this thread do. i cant tell you the number of times people come up to my wife and i telling us what beautiful children we have and that they are so well behaved. and this is just from setting boundaries. no yelling, hitting or other punishment. eula, you might have extraordinary patience or something, or, you seem to want to rail against the machine, but simple letting kids figure it out doesnt help the vast majority of children. one or two might get by with this lord-of-the-flies approach, but, it the big picture, i think it is shameful.

06-22-2005, 10:02 AM	#45 (permalink)
lilitalianita Upright	YOU are the parent. There is no negotiation. You are not there to be her friend and that should answer all your questions when it comes to handling your child. You can be her friend when she is older.

07-13-2005, 07:50 PM	#48 (permalink)
analog Banned	MOD NOTE: If I see another comment made that personally insults a member via their choices as a parent or non-parent, i'm breaking fingers. You know who you are.

07-27-2005, 05:23 PM	#50 (permalink)
ncgti Tilted Location: the great north state	As a parent of 4 children what you realize is that there is no single "Holy Grail" of rules and parenting behaviors for raising them. Each child is different and what works for one may not work for another. What would be interesting is to get a report in about 15-20 years from now from EULA to see if his contrarian methods will raise fully functioning contributing members of society or a bunch of messed-up self-indulgent brats. His eyes will be opened when he is a parent.