HELL - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

XenuHubbard · 06-16-2003, 12:21 AM

I haven't thought much about it. I'm one of those people who says "I'll wait and see what happens".

My mother is a Christian, but doesn't believe in hell. Her argument is that Hell has no place in the afterlife, if God is good and loving. I believe she has a point.

If there is a Hell, I believe it must contain both suffering and rewards; the point is that the people in it shall fight for Satan in the end, or am I wrong?

The collaboration between God and Satan that the existance of Hell suggests is pretty disturbing in itself.

ganon · 06-20-2003, 08:47 AM

I see two things as a constant thru much of this thread. One is the emparting to God characteristics of man. We say how could a loving God send anyone to hell? A better question would be how can a Holy God allow anything unholy to exist in his presence and still exist as himself? We want some play-doh God we can mold into the shape we want, whenever we want it. If God cannot stay true to his character, he ceases to be God. Therefore he cannot allow for unholiness in his presence. That Jesus is the propitiation for sin, and removes unholiness from men by faith is the only way man can have fellowship with God. I don't know about you, but I like having a flawless, all powerful God to worship, instead of some changeable deity that I define. If I mold him, he's gonna be screwed up. The biblical lake of fire was created for the devil and his angels. God has given his very life thru his son to keep us out of it, and to make us justified, so that we can enjoy his presence for ever. Considering He has done all the work, I don't find it a hard bargain to strike, I believe in him, and he saves me, not just from hell, but to a life of love, peace, and joy. I don't even have to be "good", he gives me good standing. I just have to believe. Now how hard is that?

Jasmar · 06-20-2003, 10:05 AM

If he was perfect and cannot stand anything unholy is his presence then why did we live so long without christ dieing for us, that almost seems sadistic since he died for our sin so we could go to heaven. Which means for all those years we were banished to eternal torment, I sure hope thats not our god

ganon · 06-20-2003, 10:51 AM

Actually, in the book of hebrews, written by paul the apostle, he describes how the sacrifice of Jesus was attonement for any who had faith in Him, from the very beginning. Several times throughout the old and new testament it tells of how the faith of abraham and several others was accounted to them as righteousness. The fact is, obediance to the law was never sufficient to gain access to God. It was put there to demonstrate how corrupt humanity really was. Remember, God is not subject to time at all, and so he can be the completion of all things at once, as he sees fit. We always picture God as the eternal kill-joy who makes it all so difficult, when in actuality, He has provided for us, start to finish, all that is necessary to have a relationship with him. Considering that he waits for us to come to him, usually as a last resort, He is the most humble of all, being all-powerful and all knowing.

josh10524 · 06-20-2003, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by seventhtao
[B]I think the catholic view of this is a rather childish one.

If you want to go Disneyland (Heaven) then you must be good. If you aren't your going to get a time-out (Purgatory). And if you are really naughty you are permanently grounded (Hell).

Who doesn't want to go to Disneyland? Yet another tool by which to control you. More strings to make you dance.

If a Supreme Being exists and it created a flawed world so that you may expereince free-will then it must show more compassion than a Hell would imply he had. At least if it wants any kind of support/worship from me.

Consider: Joe Schmoe is born into this world a drug addict thanks to his crackhead mom. She loses him because she is unfit. Joe is taken care of by his drunk uncle who has a nasty tendency to sexually abuse him. Joe is not a very intellectual person due to his being a crack baby. Said crack baby is taunted and occassionally beaten by his peers. Joe eventually tries crack. It is a euphoric feeling he cannot resist. Being the only somewhat sustainable and controllable joy he has expereinced so far he becomes obsessed with perpetuating it. During one of his frequent crime spree's (to obtain money for the one thing that brings him pleasure) he is shot and killed by police.

Is Joe Evil? Does Joe diserve to go to a Hell?

It would seem the cards are just stacked against some people from the get go. And this is the work of compasionate loving God?

Did Joe repent of his sins and ask god to forgive him of them? does Joe belive that Jesus died and rose again to save him from hell? if Joe honestly repented of his sins then it is as if he never comitted them. Joe will go to heaven. if he knowingly rejected salvation and did not repent of his sins then yes, he does deserve to go to hell, and yes, he will go to hell. Tragic, but true. It is the work of a compassionate, loving god however. Jesus didn't have to sacrifice himself (in a horrific manner I might add) so that joe would have the opportunity to submit to the grace of god and be saved.

magic_hat · 06-20-2003, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gonadman
Hope I don't burn in HELL for this but...

It would seem that at the very origins of society, a tool would be needed by those who would like control, to wield over their followers and thus keep them in line. What more perfect tool than the promise of eternal happiness/reward for obeying the law and leading a "good"(i.e. compliant) life, and eternal pain and suffering and torture for leading a "bad"(noncompliant) life? Furthermore, there would be no need to ever prove the existance of these entities because one is supposed to rely on "faith"(i.e. the absence of objective evidence) to maintain the belief.

Thus the perfect tool was created, and most governing entities throughout time have exploited it in one way or another.

Just a thought...

DING DING DING! we have a winner!

i dont believe in religion because i am not going to let something govern my life that is not 100% true. our presence on this earth is meaningless....to give an explaination for everything just creates more confusion. live your life how you want to.

*Nikki* · 06-23-2003, 04:54 AM

Hell for me is definately a state of mind.

ser1alkiller · 06-30-2003, 09:10 AM

I believe you have to make your way through hell in life, on earth, in order to get to 'heaven'; whatever that may be. Everyone makes their own way through hell; all on various journeys. Some of the chosen paths taken by people may cross with others, maybe even merging for a period. If you can not make your way through your hell (by ending your life purposefully) then you will never be able to get to your 'heaven'.
In conclusion, I would say you go through your own hell on earth, in order to make your heaven in life.

RatherThanWords · 06-30-2003, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Any hell that exists is self imposed. If not then I say fuck God and the horse he rode in on. I'd rather rule in hell than serve in heaven.

That is a beautiful quote...now it's time for my dollar and change.

I've always wondered how God (if he exists) administers to people who have never even heard of the bible. How about the people that live in tribes in the Amazon Rain Forest. They can't even read, let alone understand the precepts of the bible. According to Christian faith, they are in essence, fucked.

And how about the handicapped, the people with downs syndrome, etc. They don't have the mental capacity to understand the existance of a higher power, so how can they honestly accept someone/something as their savior.

If there is a hell, I'm sure there'd be a lot of very interesting people there to talk to. Carl Sagan, for one, as well as many of the other atheists that were the great minds of our time. I'd rather spend eternity talking to them than fraternizing with God's Fan Club.

The Atomic Boy · 06-30-2003, 12:02 PM

My feelings on Hell is that its a very catchy jazz song. In fact its the only song I'm really fond of by Squirrel Nut Zippers.

RatherThanWords · 06-30-2003, 06:50 PM

Quote:

My feelings on Hell is that its a very catchy jazz song. In fact its the only song I'm really fond of by Squirrel Nut Zippers.

In the afterlife.
You will be headed for some serious strife
but you make the scene all day
so tomarrow they'll be hell to pay

SNZ rox out hard!

docbungle · 06-30-2003, 10:16 PM

I like James Joyce's description of hell in "A portrait of the Artist as a Young man".

06-16-2003, 12:21 AM	#41 (permalink)
XenuHubbard Cute and Cuddly Location: Teegeeack.	I haven't thought much about it. I'm one of those people who says "I'll wait and see what happens". My mother is a Christian, but doesn't believe in hell. Her argument is that Hell has no place in the afterlife, if God is good and loving. I believe she has a point. If there is a Hell, I believe it must contain both suffering and rewards; the point is that the people in it shall fight for Satan in the end, or am I wrong? The collaboration between God and Satan that the existance of Hell suggests is pretty disturbing in itself. __________________ The above was written by a true prophet. Trust me. "What doesn't kill you, makes you bitter and paranoid". - SB2000

06-20-2003, 08:47 AM	#42 (permalink)
ganon Insane Location: in my head	I see two things as a constant thru much of this thread. One is the emparting to God characteristics of man. We say how could a loving God send anyone to hell? A better question would be how can a Holy God allow anything unholy to exist in his presence and still exist as himself? We want some play-doh God we can mold into the shape we want, whenever we want it. If God cannot stay true to his character, he ceases to be God. Therefore he cannot allow for unholiness in his presence. That Jesus is the propitiation for sin, and removes unholiness from men by faith is the only way man can have fellowship with God. I don't know about you, but I like having a flawless, all powerful God to worship, instead of some changeable deity that I define. If I mold him, he's gonna be screwed up. The biblical lake of fire was created for the devil and his angels. God has given his very life thru his son to keep us out of it, and to make us justified, so that we can enjoy his presence for ever. Considering He has done all the work, I don't find it a hard bargain to strike, I believe in him, and he saves me, not just from hell, but to a life of love, peace, and joy. I don't even have to be "good", he gives me good standing. I just have to believe. Now how hard is that? __________________ "My give up, my give up." - Jar Jar Binks

06-20-2003, 10:51 AM	#44 (permalink)
ganon Insane Location: in my head	Actually, in the book of hebrews, written by paul the apostle, he describes how the sacrifice of Jesus was attonement for any who had faith in Him, from the very beginning. Several times throughout the old and new testament it tells of how the faith of abraham and several others was accounted to them as righteousness. The fact is, obediance to the law was never sufficient to gain access to God. It was put there to demonstrate how corrupt humanity really was. Remember, God is not subject to time at all, and so he can be the completion of all things at once, as he sees fit. We always picture God as the eternal kill-joy who makes it all so difficult, when in actuality, He has provided for us, start to finish, all that is necessary to have a relationship with him. Considering that he waits for us to come to him, usually as a last resort, He is the most humble of all, being all-powerful and all knowing. __________________ "My give up, my give up." - Jar Jar Binks

06-30-2003, 12:02 PM	#50 (permalink)
The Atomic Boy Tilted Location: Indianapolis	My feelings on Hell is that its a very catchy jazz song. In fact its the only song I'm really fond of by Squirrel Nut Zippers. __________________ All problems no matter how complex can be solved with fire and/or duct tape.

06-20-2003, 10:05 AM	#43 (permalink)
Jasmar Crazy	If he was perfect and cannot stand anything unholy is his presence then why did we live so long without christ dieing for us, that almost seems sadistic since he died for our sin so we could go to heaven. Which means for all those years we were banished to eternal torment, I sure hope thats not our god

06-23-2003, 04:54 AM	#47 (permalink)
Nikki ~~~~~~~ Location: Charleston, SC	Hell for me is definately a state of mind.

06-30-2003, 09:10 AM	#48 (permalink)
ser1alkiller Upright Location: Surrey, England, UK	I believe you have to make your way through hell in life, on earth, in order to get to 'heaven'; whatever that may be. Everyone makes their own way through hell; all on various journeys. Some of the chosen paths taken by people may cross with others, maybe even merging for a period. If you can not make your way through your hell (by ending your life purposefully) then you will never be able to get to your 'heaven'. In conclusion, I would say you go through your own hell on earth, in order to make your heaven in life.

06-30-2003, 10:16 PM	#52 (permalink)
docbungle It's all downhill from here Location: Denver	I like James Joyce's description of hell in "A portrait of the Artist as a Young man".