The use of hallucinogenic drugs as a means of worship. - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ARTelevision · 02-17-2005, 10:33 AM

A close reading of my original post in this thread indicates that I acknowledged a history of using drugs as tools for philosophical speculation and not partying. My most recent post responds to the response to that inital post regarding whether or not partying and philosophical speculation are mutually exclusive. It addresses my experience regarding focused attention.

GMontag · 03-18-2005, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyrnel

GNP.

The 21st century is going to be a competitive bitch before dealing with the unpredictable spike & recovery of a toking nation.

You've got it right, although for the wrong reason. Right now, marijuana is the US's largest cash crop. Make it legal, and *poof*, a huge portion of its value is gone just like that. It would make a significant impact on the GDP, and might possibly even send the nation into a temporary recession.

cellophanedeity · 03-31-2005, 07:14 AM

Some of this sounds like it belongs in paranoia!

Based upon what I know of drugs, which isn't terribly much comparitively, I think that things would not be able to carry on as is if everyone was in a constantly dugged state. That said, I also think that many drugs should be legalized. In a country that worships it's ability to carry guns, I doubt that the dangers associated with drug use is the main fear here as the ability to kill/harm oneself with a gun is largely higher than with drugs. I realize that the States have it in their constitution to carry guns, but not drugs, but they also place high value on freedom.

As Trudeau said, "The state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation." If people want to smoke the odd joint, or pop a mind bending pill, it's not the government's business.

Fourtyrulz · 03-31-2005, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Based upon what I know of drugs, which isn't terribly much comparitively, I think that things would not be able to carry on as is if everyone was in a constantly dugged state.

Perhaps you're putting too much weight on the idea that if drugs were legalized everyone would instantly surround themselves or be forced to do them. The same folks who wouldn't do drugs now would still have the same principles to not do drugs, and those who want to experiment but are only turned away by the possible felony charge would be more encouraged.

If nothing else I would like to see the legalization of hallucinogenc drugs for further psychological and physiological study. How much can we truly know of the immense world of psychotrophic drugs if groups independent of the government aren't allowed to study them?

Personally I'm just surprised this thread has risen again.

questone · 04-19-2005, 06:01 PM

if drugs were legal they could be taxed. If they were taxed then that tax could reflect the social cost of rehab programs, etc. Also, I do not feel that many people who do not do drugs now would do them if they were legal. Ask any random person who does not do drugs why they choose not to. Most people will tell you something to the effect of "they're bad for you" or "I wouldn't want to alter my state of mind" or "I wouldn't want to become addicted".

Master_Shake · 04-20-2005, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellophanedeity

I think that things would not be able to carry on as is if everyone was in a constantly dugged state.

1. Is this a bad thing?

2. And don't kid yourself, we already drug ourselves with television, material goods and fast food.

Fourtyrulz · 04-20-2005, 12:23 PM

Quote:

if drugs were legal they could be taxed. If they were taxed then that tax could reflect the social cost of rehab programs, etc.

Definitely! I'm not sure if this point has been brought up earlier but it is still very legitimate. Look at cigarette taxes, here in Iowa the legislature just recently raised the tax so that a pack costs almost 4 bucks. (quick note: I don't smoke) Although I wouldn't perceive a need for them, it would be perfectly viable to tax hallucinogenic drugs to pay for rehabilitation centers. The gov't could even use the money that would go to jailing "criminal" recreational drug users. I figure if Nevada can tax prostitution they can extend it to drugs.

TrevDigital · 04-30-2005, 01:34 PM

Yes on the fact that there is intense lobbying from wood pulp paper people. Also yes on the fact that if we were outside in our garden smoking a bit of weed, eating a few shrooms, maybe a little bit of opium as well, we would NOT be going to the mall. Factor in the fact that resourceful people could and would produce all of these things at home for the purity of the experience, and you've got a major problem when you consider how popular "mallratting" or going to the ($8.50+) movies is with American youth.

Here's something I don't think anyone has really considered yet. I don't think its an issue of christianity not liking drugs, it's an issue of the US government REALLY liking christianity.

Think about it. Christianity is a top-down system with No questioning or debate and strict hierarchy. It has a built in set of rules/laws and its own judicial and penal system. What would the government love more? Not to mention the fact that this is all based on a repeatedly translated 2000 year old work of fiction that extolls the virtue of a supernatural being that lives in outer space and spies on what you do in the bathroom/bedroom.

The evidence for this is clear. Look at the 2004 presidential debates. Many questions were about "Faith" and religion rather than on the merits of the justice system or on foreign policy.

So now what we have is a debate about a repeatedly translated 2000 year old work of fiction that extolls the virtue of a supernatural being that lives in outer space and spies on what you do in the bathroom/bedroom (I like my description of that little book) instead of a debate about social contracts, checks and balances, etc.

Now, what happens when people are able to sit outside in their gardens and look into the face of whatever they choose to call "god"? Look up DMT. That is heavy stuff. Read some descriptions of experiences people have had while using it. Who would need to go to church and sit for an hour and hear about the glory of this heaven thing that you've been told about all their life?

If you can find your own spirituality in the privacy and comfort of your own home, why will you need to be sold the McNuggets of a franchised church operation that opened up down the street?

And if you no longer TAKE THE BLIND LEAP OF FAITH every sunday and believe shit concocted in a 2000 year old work of fiction and worship GOD AND JESUS, maybe you'll start looking more closely at what the Government is doing and no longer blindly and faithfully (patriotically) worship BUSH AND CHENEY.

hrandani · 05-05-2005, 09:07 PM

Man I totally agree with what you just said.

I don't use drugs, but I've thought about it especially the more educated I've become.

It's just that most people don't use drugs for the right reasons. And we kid ourselves. A lot of people self medicate themselves with music, for example - they just don't realize what a powerful effect it has on them.

02-17-2005, 10:33 AM	#41 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	A close reading of my original post in this thread indicates that I acknowledged a history of using drugs as tools for philosophical speculation and not partying. My most recent post responds to the response to that inital post regarding whether or not partying and philosophical speculation are mutually exclusive. It addresses my experience regarding focused attention. __________________ create evolution

03-31-2005, 07:14 AM	#43 (permalink)
cellophanedeity Heliotrope Location: A warm room	Some of this sounds like it belongs in paranoia! Based upon what I know of drugs, which isn't terribly much comparitively, I think that things would not be able to carry on as is if everyone was in a constantly dugged state. That said, I also think that many drugs should be legalized. In a country that worships it's ability to carry guns, I doubt that the dangers associated with drug use is the main fear here as the ability to kill/harm oneself with a gun is largely higher than with drugs. I realize that the States have it in their constitution to carry guns, but not drugs, but they also place high value on freedom. As Trudeau said, "The state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation." If people want to smoke the odd joint, or pop a mind bending pill, it's not the government's business.

04-19-2005, 06:01 PM	#45 (permalink)
questone Crazy	if drugs were legal they could be taxed. If they were taxed then that tax could reflect the social cost of rehab programs, etc. Also, I do not feel that many people who do not do drugs now would do them if they were legal. Ask any random person who does not do drugs why they choose not to. Most people will tell you something to the effect of "they're bad for you" or "I wouldn't want to alter my state of mind" or "I wouldn't want to become addicted".

04-30-2005, 01:34 PM	#48 (permalink)
TrevDigital Upright	Yes on the fact that there is intense lobbying from wood pulp paper people. Also yes on the fact that if we were outside in our garden smoking a bit of weed, eating a few shrooms, maybe a little bit of opium as well, we would NOT be going to the mall. Factor in the fact that resourceful people could and would produce all of these things at home for the purity of the experience, and you've got a major problem when you consider how popular "mallratting" or going to the ($8.50+) movies is with American youth. Here's something I don't think anyone has really considered yet. I don't think its an issue of christianity not liking drugs, it's an issue of the US government REALLY liking christianity. Think about it. Christianity is a top-down system with No questioning or debate and strict hierarchy. It has a built in set of rules/laws and its own judicial and penal system. What would the government love more? Not to mention the fact that this is all based on a repeatedly translated 2000 year old work of fiction that extolls the virtue of a supernatural being that lives in outer space and spies on what you do in the bathroom/bedroom. The evidence for this is clear. Look at the 2004 presidential debates. Many questions were about "Faith" and religion rather than on the merits of the justice system or on foreign policy. So now what we have is a debate about a repeatedly translated 2000 year old work of fiction that extolls the virtue of a supernatural being that lives in outer space and spies on what you do in the bathroom/bedroom (I like my description of that little book) instead of a debate about social contracts, checks and balances, etc. Now, what happens when people are able to sit outside in their gardens and look into the face of whatever they choose to call "god"? Look up DMT. That is heavy stuff. Read some descriptions of experiences people have had while using it. Who would need to go to church and sit for an hour and hear about the glory of this heaven thing that you've been told about all their life? If you can find your own spirituality in the privacy and comfort of your own home, why will you need to be sold the McNuggets of a franchised church operation that opened up down the street? And if you no longer TAKE THE BLIND LEAP OF FAITH every sunday and believe shit concocted in a 2000 year old work of fiction and worship GOD AND JESUS, maybe you'll start looking more closely at what the Government is doing and no longer blindly and faithfully (patriotically) worship BUSH AND CHENEY.

05-05-2005, 09:07 PM	#49 (permalink)
hrandani Insane	Man I totally agree with what you just said. I don't use drugs, but I've thought about it especially the more educated I've become. It's just that most people don't use drugs for the right reasons. And we kid ourselves. A lot of people self medicate themselves with music, for example - they just don't realize what a powerful effect it has on them.