cheeterbo

undefined i am having a discussion with my wife about letting my 4 1/2 year old boy play halo2.

she thinks it is too violent.

also, she won't let him or my 6 year old daughter play tony hawn underground 2.

i know that halo 2 has killing in it, but it is not the blood spurting kind.

i just am not willling to jump on the "violent video games desensitize children to violence" bandwagon. at least no yet

anybody have experience here?

MiSo

i can't comment because i dont have kids, but i used to think it was rediculous that some of my friends (when i was younger) couldn't play games because their parents thought they were too violent.

if you're around your kids to tell them whats okay and what's not, i dont think there's a problem.

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i dont see a problem with tony hawk because its just a skating video game. there isnt anything bad about that game.

FngKestrel

Shooting other people might not be something you want to expose your kids to at such a young age. Regardless of the game that's being played, your child will definitely pick up on the kind of behavior and reaction that YOU have towards such gameplay.

I'm not a person to say that video games are the downfall of society, but all forms of media should be qualified by the parent. Even something that people have accepted as innocuous as TV can be harmful.

Ganguro

for a 4 year old, how much fun can it be?
Th e controls and aiming and goals might be abstract for him at that age. I'm not sure if it's too violent or not, but I always cringe when i see kids pretend to shoot each other with toy guns and their fingers at young ages. Guns aren't toys.. If your wife feels the kids are too young for those games, maybe you shoud all sit down and have a nice talk about the problematic points and see how your kids look at them.

Though i believe each game menitonec is rated M for a reason..

typhus

I think 4 is way too young. The game is rated M. Many people think M is too much for Halo 2, but it is nowhere near an E rating. Young children can't make the connection between real and fake sometimes. By letting a four year old play a rated M game you are asking for a lot of potential problems down the road, like unusualy violent behavior and ADD.

I don't own any gaming systems, nor do I want that for my family. My step son is 9, and when he goes to his Dad's over the weekend he plays on the Xbox about 10 to 14 hours a day. He has a hard time in school and everything else because all he wants to do in life is play video games.

If I were you I would take your kids to the park or play a board game with them. They will have plenty of time in thier life to play video games. Wait until they are older before you start getting them addicted to video games.

sashime76

I don't think kids under 12 should be playing any shoot 'em up games. I'd go as far as Donkey Kong but stick with educational games if you can. I think he would be as happy with a Harry Potter game, which is more brain challenging for him. My 3 1/2 year old started playing PC games, all educational, and I can tell he has improved in hand eye coordinations as well as logical thinking.

At this stage, you need to pick out the games for him, not games you like but games suitable for him. As he gets older then he will want to pick his own games but it's still up to you to decide whether or not to purchase.

clavus

When my 4-1/2 year old is exposed to a game, he acts it out, no matter how much "talking" we do about it. When he is exposed to a violent game (i.e. Halo, not Donkey Kong) he get rough. "Violent" is too strong a word. He's a pretty gentle kid overall, so its not like he's kicking the cat or anything. But he will knock his little brother down and play rougher with him. he also is less likely to listen. It's like the game short circuits him somehow.

I would not believe this if I had not seen it. I always played games as a kid, and I continue to do so. I look forward to the day we play XBox together.

But I don't let him play or watch me play first person shooters, even if there is no spurting blood.

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frogza

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Mephisto2

I agree with what clavus says.

Any depiction of violence, whether in a game or a movie, is going to affect your child. He may not run around sticking pencils in other people's eyes, but it will affect him; especially when he's younger. Children that young are meant to learn by observation for goodness sake! This is something that if often overlooked.

Stick with the ratings.

Anything with an E, go hell for leather. Anything with an M, keep him away from until he's older.


Mr Mephisto

mr sticky

I dunno guys, My little four year old has played both Halo and Halo 2 and is the gentlest, sweetest little guy you'd ever want to hang with. I don't see any problem with it as long as he knows it's make believe. He also has a strong preference for horror movies. Both of these things he thinks is a hoot! Why should I not indulge his hobbies when it's an excellent release for him.

I just don't see an issue with it. Hell, we watched Wile E. Coyote get smashed up every Saturday, and I've yet to drop an anvil on someone's head!

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clavus

mr sticky, I would have agreed with you 100% before I experienced the changes in my kid. Every kid is different though.

Road Runner cartoons and Jurrasic Park movies do not have the same effect on Junior as first person shooters do. Dunno why.

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Mephisto2

And that's why some of those cartoons were deemed inappropriate by some sections of the US media!

It's an indisputable fact that children learn by observation and mimicry. I guess it's up to you if you want your kid to observe (and mimic) murder and mayhem.

Mr Mephisto

cheeterbo

really i am torn both ways. my two oldest 6 & 41/2 play xbox kids games like nickelodeon, spongebob, finding nemo and shrek 2 (by the way, shrek 2 is an awesome game that four people can play at once). i enjoy playing with them and really enjoy the clancy games and halo on xbox.

i have not seen any evidence of either of my children exhibiting any hostile or even threatening or playful violence.

the tom & jerry game has them controlling cartoon characters and punching, kicking and throwing things at each other. sort of the same with shrek 2, but not against each other.

to err on the side of protection is going to be my choice i guess, i really am conflicted because the boy REALLY wants to play halo2 with me.

Dawson70

We recently purchased a PS2 (Xmas gift to the family). When we went to Blockbuster to rent a few games for my kids (ages, 4,7 and 10) I figured they would go after the "SpongeBob Game" or "Scooby", but to my amazment, they went right for the "Ghost Recon" and "Grand Theft Auto". I think it is the advertising that hooked them on these games. I of course, put the brakes on those choices and convinced them to take the other games mentioned above. No way is my 7 yr old son gonna learn how to boost cars and practice drive by shootings. No frickin way!

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soccerchamp76

4 years old? Jesus, the game is M - for over 18.
Although the idea is to save the world by killing aliens, you are having a 4 year old play it. Definitely too young.

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mr sticky

With my son, it's not about shooting the aliens, i.e killing the bad guys. It's about the skill involved clearing the mission. It's plainly make believe. My wife used to have a "no guns" policy in the house (toy guns) but after seeing him pick up a stick ( this is before Halo) and shoot with it, she realized that it is an inevitable occurance.

It's a choice you make for your children, and I think that context has a great deal to do with it. If my little boy was running aroung emulating a killing spree, that would be different. But he loves the skill of the game, that is every game, the violence factor has nothing to do with it. Driving games are played with the same zeal.

There is violence in cartoons, violence on the news, violence on the streets. I grew up as a martial artist and I don't try to beat up everyone that disagrees with me. Some of the same parents that won't let their kid watch a PG-13 movie will put their kid in karate class. It's context and perception. Kids shouldn't be reared in a vacuum. It's up to the parents to assess their kids and decide if something is good for them or not.

So... until you meet my little gamer, give me the benefit of the doubt. He is a gamer, not a spree-killer in the making.

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Charlatan

This is an ongoing discussion in my house. My 10 year old was given Halo 2 as a present by his grandfather and my wife didn't think it was a good idea.

My wife is a teacher in training and last fall they did an exercise with the kids in her grade five class... They described a scenario in which the student was walking and was hit with a random snowball. They don't know where it came from or who threw it. They asked each child for their reaction (and were very careful not to edit their responses). Just about every boy in the class said immediately that they would go and find who threw it and kill them. Many suggested the weapon they would use to do this. Most of the girls said they would be afraid and would seek shelter.

They we shocked to discover the level of violence and the desire to seek vengeance. There was no pause for reflection just gut instinct lashing out...

I think a lot of this has to do with the level of violence that we subject our children to. One aspect of which is videogames.

You can argue all you want about the tactics in Halo 2 but when it comes down to it, the game involves a lot of shooting and killing. More importantly it places the child as an active participant in the shooting and killing.

In my mind this is just not appropriate for young children.

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discotequi

I'm not even sure my wife really wants me playing Halo, etc, let alone the kids.

Guess this is just a personal decision for each family, but 4 years old seems crazy young for violent games and horror movies.

rickscales

In Halo 2, you kill aliens.

In Tony Hawk games, you treat women as objects.

It's up to you to choose which is worse for your child.


PS -
Yeah, my favorite part was in Tony Hawk Underground 1 when you could go to the strip club and use a stripper. (No nudity in the game, but it's implied.)

My second favorite part was in Tony Hawk 3 when the only females besides Melissa Steamer in the game were "Neversoft Girls" who wore bikinis and had jiggling breasts, and were in the game soley so you could "impress" them.

Good thing old Melissa Steamer keeps things equal and fair in those games though.

cheeterbo

i really want to know if the questions were asked individually, or as a group. if as a group, as soon as one boy answers with violence, they all would, the girls the same. they was it is described, the boys then tried to one up each other by including weapons. i am finding it hard to believe that individually, ALL of the boys said the exact same thing.

joeb1

I read this thread... and realized that my son to has become much more aggressive after watching his older brother play these games.

Just last night he picked up a play sword. And whacked me right in the face. He busted my lip open with that thing. And he is almost three. Scared the crap out of me. I was not even expecting it.

Maybe it is time to evaluate when the games can be played???

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angeltek

If a game is violent, then kids that play it or even watch someone else play it will want to act it out.

Seriously, when I was a kid, I can't remember the amount ofg tuimes me and my friends played Ninja Turtles. We would use broom stiks and metal rods, make our own nunchucks, etc. and we would pretned to be them, and attack eachother with these things. Now, think of how much more violent video games are then these tv shows we used to watch.

I am seriously debating as to what age I even want my son to start playing any kind of video game. Obviously if I do let him play any it will have to be a non-violent, educational game that promotes posotive morals and ideals.

That's pretty much the end of my rant.

arch13

Bingo. Those ratings are there for a reason. I once half joked to my fiance that when we have children they are not owning a video game system before the age of high school. I can't stop a child from playing at someone elses home, but they will not be playing that in our home. She laughed, then I looked at her and said "No really, I'm serious."

A 4 year old? A 4 year old shouldn't even be watching large amounts of TV unless you want him/her to develop a short attention span. We didn't even have a TV in my home growing up until High school and I turned out with a longer attention span than nearly every guy I grew up with. Video game systems? only ever owned a game boy that I was allowed to play on long trips.

The less of these types of entertainment a child is exposed to, the better. They don't call it the idiot box for nothing.

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ziadel

If I had a child, and he played HALO 2, and he somehow got it into his head that its ok to decimate invading aliens, that would'nt bother me.

There are no invading aliens here people, if the kid somehow gets it into his head that its ok to do, what exactly is the problem here?


no, I don't have a child, and I am prolly talking out of my ass, but it had to be said


but keep in mind, if I did have a 4 year old son, he would be learning how to shoot a rifle and ride a dirtbike... most people give me a fucked up look when I tell them that...

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moonstrucksoul

the games definitely have a role in the beheavior of children , those two games in particular, don't seem to me appropriate.
A six and a half year old can pick up on the themes and traits of the games characters. now personally for me, i don't want my kids playing games that involve making characters commit vandalism and theft. but that's just me. as for halo2 my boy gets all worked up just watching. which is why I loaned my Xbox to my brother.

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Dostoevsky

I'm pretty liberal on this subject but I think letting a 4 year old try his hand at Halo 2 is probably a bad idea. A child that age isn't going to be old enough to understand the difference between playing video games and real life. He'll be in his preschool trying to hit other kids with his 'plasma sword' or something.

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MontanaXVI

This is a hot topic, which bears some careful consideration.

I personally feel the games have a rating on them for a reason and the advertising is what makes kids want to play these games. No 10 year old in their right mind is wanting to go hijack a car and run behind the nearest alley with a hooker to "regain health" as in GTA. The fact that the Master Sargeant IS killing aliens would make some people think, well this is ok, it is aliens after all and there are no aliens in my neighborhood so it is ok. Not really, the kid sees the killing, violence, and chaos as something fun or cool to do and could in all reality, despite mommy and daddy telling them it is NOT real, act these scenarios out in school or daycare or what have you.

Myself growing up was not allowed to play these games at home (did not stop me from doing it at a friends house overnight, or going to R rated movies at 12 with a couple friends whose parents were more allowing than mine) and I did turn out IMHO better off than these kids who did get to do whatever they wanted. I am pretty intelligent, level headed, quick to think something out before going with a gut reaction to lash out or strike back at someone/thing. I graduated high school with a 3.8 GPA and have had a steady job (first one ever) since being in high school, over 11 years now. Not saying I am the best person in the world because my mom or dad never allowed me to have M games or watch R movies at home, but I have to honestly say I believe it did have something to do with it. I am 28 btw.


While it would be great if there was a video or instruction bookelt on how to raise the perfect kid, in all reality there is not. It is up to you, the parent, to think long and hard about all the choices you make for your young child and what the end result of such choices could be.

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Stompy

There's a big scare going around the media these days about kids trying to mimic what they see and hear. People hear stories of, "omg this kid stole a car and blamed it on GTA!!!" and go off in a fit of madness. Well guess what? Those kids are stupid, and so are their parents.

Just because there are small isolated incidents in a country full of MILLIONS of people doesn't mean it's an epidemic. It's all bs and boils down to individual parenting.

A younger child playing an M game is no different from you, as a child, sneaking off and watching an R rated gory horror movie. You know you did it. Did you turn into a psychopath? No. Why? Good parenting? Maybe you were smart enough? Who knows.

The generalization "10 is too young to play an M game" just isn't true. It might sound like it is, and perhaps it's that way for MOST children, but.. because of how unique and individual each person is, it's just not true. My cousin played GTA Vice City when he was 11. Some of you might think that's horrible, but it's not - he is VERY mature for his age. He knows the different from right and wrong and has very good parents.

I used to watch horror movies all the time as a child, however, the very first thing I was taught was that NONE of it was real. That the people in the movies were just actors, and the blood and monsters were just special effects.

I remember watching Nighmare on Elm St when I was 6, and my grandma flipped out, "Why are you watching this?!?!" and I said, "It's okay, it's only make believe." I never once tried to re-enact any of the movies, nor did they turn me into a psychopath.

People always act like like video games and TV are bad for kids - it's not. It is if you let them play 9 hours a day every day. Teach your kid properly and then there's no reason to deprive them of fun. Just because you grew up with rocks and sticks to play with doesn't mean your children shouldn't be allowed the privilege of playing any video games. That's a tad bit unnecessary and overcontrolling.

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Suave

I <3 the violent video games, but I'd personally wait until my kid was around 8 or so at least. Below that, there are strong suggestions of susceptibility to subversive desensitization (say that sentence three times fast) and just a general impressionability among children. It's even suggested as high as 12-14 years of age with many.

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krwlz

I dont have kids, but I would say that 4 is a little young. Start the video games later in life, theres plenty of time for it. As for guns and shooting people... Well, my cousins parents were super good about that, and by age 4 or 5 we were pretending to shoot eachother... Just happens, boys pretty much all do it.

mojodragon

I have 3 kids, and I'm an avid gamer. So, I don't necessarily subscribe to the whole "games are bad for kids" mindset. I think, however, that games are bad for my oldest son. We sometimes let him play the Spyro games, and he totally loses his mind. If we let him play for a half hour or an hour, the rest of the day is shot. It's like he has two personallities, and the evil one comes out when we let him play. So, I think it depends on the child. My oldest isn't old enough to play, but the middle child is. You'll have to decide that for yourself as a parent.

Boo Radley

It's been said before but i'm going to join it's ranks

Kids should be concidered in a case by case senario some personality types definatly deal with things differently.. Some are more mature for thier age then kids 5 years older then them.

How ever the M for mature is a fairly good recomendation in my opinion.. though i'd probably let a 14 year old play a 18+ game like halo, or max payne.. Under cutting by 14 years though is a big step.. But i'm not saying that against you.. look at the game in question a 4 year old playing halo shooting bad guys that look more like bugs then humans.... sure.. i've got no problem with that a 4 year old playing Vice City on the other hand.. umm no.

There is far worse violence in American tv then there is in most games.

IC3

I wouldn't have a problem letting my kids play any kind of games, As long as you teach them that what they are playing is a game and not real.

When i was a kid me n all my friends would play guns in our complex..we all had plastic guns..some machine guns others had pistols.

Some video games are violent, But there's alot more violence that kids may become exposed to from movies that are or suppose to seem real..so video games aren't that bad, even the grand theft auto games..violent..yes, but it's a video game.

It's no worse than the Coyote tryin to blow up the roadrunner with dynamite..or elmer fudd walkin around with his shotgun..Cartoons are animated, and so are video games.

I just think that some people (Nobody here) like to point their fingers at video games being the problem with todays youth or part of the problem anyways. That's just the way i see it though.

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snowy

I can't even believe a parent would consider willfully exposing their child to a violent video game.

Why not encourage your child to play outside instead? To use their imagination? How about you buy them a book? Teach them to read? I think there are probably a lot of better things to do than introduce a four-year-old to Halo 2.

I was only allowed to have educational video games as a kid--no Nintendo, nothing. We did, however, have a computer in my house well before any of my friends did, though I was still only allowed to play educational games. I think it made a dramatic difference in my development of imagination, of reading skills, and fitness. I was reading at the college level in elementary school.

Perhaps your son could do the same, with the right direction.

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Cowman

Honestly when I clicked on this thread I thought it was going to be about some parent over-reacting to a 10 or 12 year old playing a violent game, and I was going to go off on a tangent about how people are wayy too worried about tthese things. But then I saw that it was about your 4 year old..and..man thats just way too young to be playing that. I mean whether or not there's going to be bad long term effects who knows, but I wouldn't risk it with a child like that. Especially since they'd be just as happy playing barney or whatever else.

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Apache

Well I don't have kids yet (pregnant now) but my 11 year old neice practically lives with us and my husband has an x box with stacks and stacks of games, a lot of them fighting games like Halo 2, Mortal Kombat, Grand theft auto ect... Now again she's 11 so she doesn't act out these games, nor does my 8 year old nephew who plays them and has been playing them since he was very young. I don't agree with the violent games make violent people argument, but at the same time I have another nephew whose only 3 and he will act out everything he sees on tv. I think at 4 years old it would have to be your call, you don't want your child going around hurting people, or acting things out she sees on tv.
But all these people who say games are to violent for small kids to play, half of them will set and let them watch anything on tv so what's the difference? (I don't mean people who are replying to this forum, I mean people I know) So again my only opinion is to decide for yourself.

sexymama

I am surprised no one has mentioned the resent research on the effect of too much television, video gaming, etc., on brain development. This link will lead you to some intersting information.

http://www.limitv.org/preschool.htm

This one is even better!

http://www.allprodad.com/6tveffects.asp

Also, google brain development and television. There is a lot of good information out there.

Ditto all the above on violance and a 4-year-old as well. I'm not anti gaming (I enjoy table top and live gaming myself) I just think it has a time and place.

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raeanna74

I have a 4 yr old daughter. My girl loves scary movies and wants to play shoot-em up games. I've let her watch something - not TOO scary - WITH me. I've also let her try a game. Hubby has guns and we've let her hold them with us around. She has toy guns. She loves to play shoot-em up. Our rule is that she can shoot at pretend "bad guys" but she's not to point ANY gun at another person. That rule may change but at her age we're not sure how well her grasp on the pretend versus reality is even though she seems to have it in hand.

BUT she's is at such an impressionable age where she's absorbing information at an increasingly fast rate. Playing these games or watching lots of television is not the best way to cultivate this valuable time for her to learn some of the most important things to get through life. I don't see these things are terrible for her to be exposed to but I have many other things that would be much BETTER for her to be exposed to.

Also - every kid is different and she may not learn from the 'violent' game to be violent. BUT then again she MIGHT learn to BE more violent. We'll never know until it happens. I think better safe than sorry. Especially at this age. There are so many other BETTER games for her to play that I see no usefulness in encouraging her to play the violent games. I won't buy them for her. I won't rent them for her. I will discourage them and perhaps restrict them. I have no set age where I will begin to allow her to play these games. It all depends on how she matures and how violent or constructive she becomes.

So many times with kids I think people look at things as the right or wrong way to raise them. I think it's more a matter of degrees - what will encourage their maturity and intellectual growth more than another thing. Yes we all need downtime and I'm not saying she needs to do INTELLECTUAL games all the time. She can have fun and downtime doing anything she enjoys.

Just find something that your kid enjoys and can use for downtime that isn't going to create tension with his Mom and that can benefit him more. It sounds a little to me like he just wants to play the game cause he sees Dad playing it. Try playing it more often when he's asleep or not around and do more stuff that's a little more age appropriate when he IS around.

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cheeterbo

wow, i am really impressed with the reaction to my thread. i have yet to allow my son to play and have really been close many times. he really wants to play. i am falling towards the side that 4 is too young, but it will happen soon. he is turning five in april.

i grew up with bb guns and those cork-pop guns. and we would shoot them at each other. we would wear padding and helmets and declare "no head shots" and no one ever got hurt. my father took me at an early age to shoot at the police range and i was a junior marksman in junior high school.

there was no video games or violent tv (except sat. morn cartoons). hell, cable was only 9 channels then. i think it is bullshit to lock-step agree with age limits.

after reading all of everyones posts, i now believe the decision is too be made on an individual basis. after starting this thread, i stared to watch what my kids were viewing on tv. it is real violent. that new boomarang channel shows all the old cartoons i grew up with and man are they violent.

my kids watch the simpson and laugh their asses off! but they don't talk like the simpsons and don't act like them either.

the nickelodean xbox games they play are somewhat violent. instead of a gun they substitute a water hose or a hammer. the characters run around kicking and punching. but my kids don't do that to each other, or to other kids we have over, and they don't do it at school, i have asked their teachers.

both my oldest (girl 6 and boy 4) play tony hawk underground 2. and you know what they like best? creating wicked weird looking characters. it really is a wonderful canvas for expression and experimentation with art. then, after taking 20 minutes or so creating a skater, they race each other, or do the same move over and over and over while laughing hysterically.

now, i understand that they are too young to comprehend the purpose of the game, and in a few short years, that comprehension will breathe and the objectification of women and vandalism will have to be addressed.

basically, i feel that if it is properly supervised, certain children can be allowed to play these games. in fact, probably most children. its when the xbox and tv become the supervisors that damage occurs.

squirrelyburt

I refused to let the kids play the more violent games until recently, they are 8 and 10 now. With that said, I still closely monitor what they are into. kids are exposed to so much more death and violence on TV now, even just the national news...blood makes great TV, you know? Death has become so non-chalant and more graphic. There is no question that in the past 20 years children have become far more desensitized to violence.

Thus endeth my rant, but 4 is too young.

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